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Gollzer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 00:31:00 -
[1]
well it probably has been posted everywhere and millions of times BUT IT HAS NEVER BEEN FIXED!
it gets me mad when all of a sudden u get a spawn around 100km away from u with like um lets say... 6 cruisers... now they shoot missiles... LOTS OF EM... AT HUGE RANGE AND THEY NEVER MISS YA UNLESS U R HIDDEN BEHIND A ROID  plz fix this!
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.04.15 07:55:00 -
[2]
tank out the heavy missiles (even a cruiser can do that)
run or tank the cruise missiles
hide behind a roid
And yes, it should have been fixed a long time ago, together with the insane exposions effects of bumping your ship around and dropping your speed to 20%.
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Gollzer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 10:00:00 -
[3]
that is what i'm taliking about getting bombed by 60 missiles from huge range just ****s up your movement! no problem to tank those heavy missiles :p my XL shield booster even takes care of that
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iNs4ne
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Posted - 2004.04.15 10:57:00 -
[4]
(slightly off-topic) also need fixing:
thorax launching missiles
kestrel using turrets (and targetting you at 100km +)
and a lot more i guess
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Xachariah
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Posted - 2004.04.15 11:02:00 -
[5]
A NPC Thorax is not the same as the Player Thorax. It just uses the same model. I think this is nothing, what is going to be "fixed". Their HP, Speed etc. is going to differ too, i guess.
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ShuffCha
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:41:00 -
[6]
But it dont need to be that a bantam targets you within 91km and all missleboats starting fireing at same range and those missles will hit (if you stay).
Even electronic warefare is useless, becourse the rats will target you in random time after appearans and there is nothing you can do against.
I stoped hunting in .4 systems not becourse i dont survive there, no i sligtly cant pay this damn defenders for the missleshild needet to come close to 57 km (my targeting-range in a griff).
Just CAP this damn RATs Targeting abilitys. plz.
Greets
ShuffCha
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DampJim
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:51:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
But it dont need to be that a bantam targets you within 91km and all missleboats starting fireing at same range and those missles will hit (if you stay).
Even electronic warefare is useless, becourse the rats will target you in random time after appearans and there is nothing you can do against.
I stoped hunting in .4 systems not becourse i dont survive there, no i sligtly cant pay this damn defenders for the missleshild needet to come close to 57 km (my targeting-range in a griff).
Just CAP this damn RATs Targeting abilitys. plz.
Greets
ShuffCha
Yes rats are very odd indeed. The fact that NPC kestrel can target u from 100km is very BAD. Even WORSE is that they shoot Light Missiles from that range ... and oddly they do hit. That gotta be fixed.
And what about sensor strenghts. I have tried with ECMs and one of the guristas frigate fighters had to have 4 ECM spatial on him before he lost his lock. (Dunno wich guristas it was but it was a frigate). Thats 4 * -6 = -24 sensor strengt ... thats CRAZY. This too gotta be fixed.
(sensor thing MAY be wrong cause of a lack of memory but i think its correct)
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Ariadne
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Posted - 2004.04.15 13:46:00 -
[8]
they use tech 2 mods and ships!
"This means V+R."
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nichts
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Posted - 2004.04.15 14:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: nichts on 15/04/2004 14:05:20
What "lvl2 missle" has a range up to 100km and a dmg at ~50dmg?
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Kyroki Tirpellan
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Posted - 2004.04.15 14:28:00 -
[10]
Quote:
And what about sensor strenghts. I have tried with ECMs and one of the guristas frigate fighters had to have 4 ECM spatial on him before he lost his lock. (Dunno wich guristas it was but it was a frigate). Thats 4 * -6 = -24 sensor strengt ... thats CRAZY. This too gotta be fixed.
All NPCs have all flavours of sensors. If you want to jam them you need multispectrals, or some combination of specific jammers that could normally jam someone with, say, 15 Gravimetric 15 Magnetometric 15 RADAR 15 LADAR sensor strength. And that's a cruiser. You can find the sensor strength of specific NPCs (along with all other stats) on Eve Database.
I must say, however, that putting that kind of stats on NPCs doesn't make sense to me. Why do they get to have all kinds of sensors while our ships are stuck with one kind? 
I haven't had troubles with ³ber long range missiles though. I often fight at such ranges that the missiles explode some 10km before reaching me. Maybe this has something to do with the kind of NPC that shoots them? Is it perhaps Guristas that everyone is having troubles with or does this occur with other kinds too?
Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower.
Real men structure tank! |
nichts
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Posted - 2004.04.15 14:50:00 -
[11]
thx for the tip.
But this damn RATs still have a targetingrange of 0m i think that means unlimited :(.
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Xachariah
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Posted - 2004.04.15 15:14:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Why do they get to have all kinds of sensors while our ships are stuck with one kind?
I guess it¦s because of the kill-missions.
They lack AI and different load-outs. Which means, that if you use Eve-DB, you could just fit the necessary ECM-modules, because you will exactly know, what you¦re up against.
EVE-DB can already be used in a similiar way: Just look what kind of damage will be dealt by your enemy, and fit the necessary Shield Hardener.
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Sharkey
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Posted - 2004.04.15 16:31:00 -
[13]
I've been working on some level II agent kill missions and noticed the uber missile attacks. The majority of rats were firing light missiles at me, but as I was orbitting them at 40km the missiles never came close to reaching me.
Until one mission where I warped in and saw two rats as my targets. I start the usual move to orbit, lock targets and open fire with my own missiles. Then they start firing missiles back. I paid little attention until suddenly I notice that the rats' missiles are screaming towards me and have started beating down my shields! I attempted to get some more distance from them, but those light missiles (bloodclaws, btw) wouldn't give up. In my breacher with a MWD I travel at just under 2 km/s (it's like 1900+ m/s). Judging by the way the rats' missiles slowly continued to gain on me I reckon they must have been travelling at least 2 km/s themselves. That's pretty fast for a light missile!
I wish I could remember the types of rats that were firing these uber light missiles, but I do know that it only happened on a few missions. Still, it's a little worrying facing those in a lightly armoured frig!
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.04.15 16:38:00 -
[14]
15k guristas fire light missiles that hit from 50km, while they list as XXX Light Missile I, i believe they have max skills, and are T2 in capabilities. (or its a bug with range, as it lists as a T1 missile, and has same base damage)
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.04.15 17:07:00 -
[15]
Quote:
they use tech 2 mods and ships!
That makes no sense since pirate agents don¦t do research. Sure you might say that they have bought it but as far as I know they have always had endless flighttime on their missiles.
__________
Capacitor research |
Richard Okuda
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Posted - 2004.04.15 21:21:00 -
[16]
First of all let me say i love this game.
However i have to say i have been up against the super light missile rats, and although they scared the bejesus out of me they really werent that big of an issue, only light missiles after all, a small sb will more than cover you. So i really think that the bigger issue here is that it breaks the immersion players have in the game when the NPC's have something completely better than us.
For an example my brother and i went out hunting the other week, he was in a griffin, i was in a merlin. We ran up against a Guristas infiltrator, so we decided to try electronic warfare out. Let me tell you it wasnt a positive first experience, the rat was never a threat, but it just isn't cool for gear that we spent time and money on to have no effect whatso ever.
Mabey im getting too into the game but it would be nice to have computer enemies that play by the same set of rules we do.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.04.15 23:19:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Mabey im getting too into the game but it would be nice to have computer enemies that play by the same set of rules we do.
Sure, and while we're at it, let's fit up the NPC pirate frigates in the same manner that player frigates are set up...
Cruise missile launchers
Multiple turrets
Sensor dampers
Microwarp drivers
Warp disruptors and webifiers
Drones
The reason why NPCs don't conform to the same rules we do is simple: They are controlled by an AI, and they need as many advantages as they can get to be even MARGINALLY competitive. If they were set to conform to the same rules we do, then the AI would have to be remarkably improved. Standard technique in gaming - make the NPCs powerful to make up for the poor AI.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it :)
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.04.15 23:37:00 -
[18]
This bug is really retarded
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Richard Okuda
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Posted - 2004.04.16 02:03:00 -
[19]
Quote:
The reason why NPCs don't conform to the same rules we do is simple: They are controlled by an AI, and they need as many advantages as they can get to be even MARGINALLY competitive. If they were set to conform to the same rules we do, then the AI would have to be remarkably improved. Standard technique in gaming - make the NPCs powerful to make up for the poor AI.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it :)
Well, ok, since i think this thread deserves some answers and height on the list lets debate this...
The original poster of this thread was trying to figure out why there were rats with missiles that seem to have no range restrictions, no quantity restrictions, and no reload time. i can understand why the devs would want 2 out of those 3 options, but why no range restrictions? I mean its the same missile right, if it were a tech 2 missile couldnt it be named differently atleast?
My point was that rats are the first combat new players come across, or atleast the first combat they have a prayer of surviving... So why shouldnt the rats be a kind of test subject for electronic warfare and such?
You say (and this is just to argue the point, I am in no way attacking you personally) that the rats need all the advantages they can get, but why not leave them vulnerable to ECM and the like? Its not it weakens them in any substantial way, most players will still blow them away with guns/missiles. I would seriously doubt that combating rats would give players a clue into PVP electronic warfare. So why is the griffin only usefull to real pirates or corporations/ alliances (and barely even then)?
Why not open up electronic warfare to newbies? they will have to use it eventually anyhow right? Wouldnt a better educated newbie who can use electronics be better for any corp that wants to employ him? Couldnt a vulnerable rat serve as that teaching platform? isnt it gramatically wrong for me to use more than one question mark in a paragraph??
Ok I had better stop now, this is devolving into a rant...
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mqwam
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Posted - 2004.04.16 04:24:00 -
[20]
Edited by: mqwam on 16/04/2004 04:26:05
The problem ist not the endless trageting range, it¦s the flighttime of the missiles. And the npc missiles have not always an endless flighttime.
Their turrets have a range and why should the missiles not?
There is no reason why light missiles hit at 80 km.
Even a light missile II with standard missile skill lvl5 only has a range of 33km.
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Vaaliant
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Posted - 2004.04.17 00:44:00 -
[21]
Folks its not just that. Rats are the first thing that new players want to try fighting out against as was said above. I remember when you could realistically go up against several 8k bounty rats like reavers. Now they just missile spam you even if you warp in at 60km away, now while some of you say so what, its tech 2, I say this, how the heck is a rifter or most frigates for that matter supposed to start targetting at 60km away?? Groups of 8k-15k rat should be a good challenge for frigates all the way up to level 1 cruisers not being giving the heebee jeebies just thinking about even going up against them.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.04.17 05:34:00 -
[22]
Sigh.. I didn't want to say it, but here's why jamming doesn't work on NPCs.
1. Get a bunch of battleships and cruisers built for mining. Fill their medium slots with ECM devices.
2. Go into a belt. Jam all the pirates. Start mining.
3. Laugh as all the NPCs just fly around you not doing anything, and never get reinforcements because you're not killing any of them.
4. Leave, a much richer group.
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Tar Magen
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Posted - 2004.04.17 13:33:00 -
[23]
The problem here is not the behaviour of the NPCs in itself, but the fact that they look like PC ships, so people expect them to behave like PC ships.
I've never heard anyone complaining about Sanshas, which have their own ship models.
If CCP were to give the Blood Covenant and the others their own ship models, the frustration factor would vanish.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
mqwam
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Posted - 2004.04.17 14:54:00 -
[24]
I don¦t care how they look or if they use a setup possible on this ship or this ship class.
But at least they should use a weapon that is in the game. And there are no missiles without flighttime restrictions.
If you open the range tab of the scanner, look at the npc missiles and open their info you will see that they use just the same missiles...
Oh please, npc are much too easy please make that blaster npc can hit me at 100km.
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Richard Okuda
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Posted - 2004.04.17 15:05:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Sigh.. I didn't want to say it, but here's why jamming doesn't work on NPCs.
1. Get a bunch of battleships and cruisers built for mining. Fill their medium slots with ECM devices.
2. Go into a belt. Jam all the pirates. Start mining.
3. Laugh as all the NPCs just fly around you not doing anything, and never get reinforcements because you're not killing any of them.
4. Leave, a much richer group.
i see, well, there goes my arguement...
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