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Confederation of the Red Moon [CoRM] Statement to Xanadu[NFA]

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Detaitiv	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:26:00 - [31] For some reason it's antimotivation to look into getting your corp taken off the KOS list when you have members flying with the miscreants. I think they may have even shot up some of our poor alt scouts. As to this whole democracy thingie, when corps are voting based on a 140 member player base, but at the BEST of time fielding a pvp force of 2, so sort of extrademocractic action needed to be taken.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:33:00 - [32] Quote: extrademocractic action needed to be taken. Ooohh, interesting term ¼©¼ a history
Baun	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:36:00 - [33] Quote: After four days of trying to negotiate the removal of our name from the NFA KOS list, we now know it is a lost cause. Our reason of being placed on the KOS were unproven and false. We were lead to beleive it was being looked into and we should know something by today. Now it seems we would have to wait till the next NFA meeting to find out. In the meantime Xanadu has started killing my members outside of Fountain region. It seems there is no intention from Xanadu to work with us on this matter. Confederation of the Red Moon has had enough of deceit from this matter. NFA might as well just not worry about removing us from KOS. We will now give you a reason for having us on the list. To the remaining corps in the NFA. We would not wish to have any hostilities with you but with it being an alliance, we will not have any choice. Xanadu has made the decision for you. CEO of CoRM If you are actually interested in what you say you are interested in, then a good way to start would be the following. 1. Do not refer to the FA as the NFA. There is no NFA, there is only the FA 2. Do not refer to this as only a Xanadu matter, it is not. There are well over 10 other corporations along with Xanadu. The fact that you both called the FA the NFA and portrayed Xanadu as the evil villains leads me to believe that you only wanted to stir the pot. If there is one thing this conflict does not need its more worthless inflammatory trolling. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:41:00 - [34] Quote: For some reason it's antimotivation to look into getting your corp taken off the KOS list when you have members flying with the miscreants. I think they may have even shot up some of our poor alt scouts. As to this whole democracy thingie, when corps are voting based on a 140 member player base, but at the BEST of time fielding a pvp force of 2, so sort of extrademocractic action needed to be taken. Point 1: at the time the statement came out confirming the illegal actions of the NFA, our pilots were flying in an FA patrol. Some of our members tried to leave asap but were shot down in the process, even though they clearly stated that they were leaving fountain and did not engage NFA forces at any time. Point 2: No matter how wrongly your actions were in overthrowing the FA, you still had the forces and the opportunity to allow those corps to leave peacefully, there was no need for a turkey shoot. Point 3: Where do you get the PvP force of 2 from anyway...some number you picked out of the air? Point 4: Please explain the meaning of extrademocratic...that's a new one!
Riddari	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:46:00 - [35] Quote: Point 3: Where do you get the PvP force of 2 from anyway...some number you picked out of the air? I think he's referring to another corporation, neither HHI nor CORM, but one of those that left peacefully. ¼©¼ a history
Jiggy	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:48:00 - [36] Quote: Quote: You obviously cant prove your innocense in that matter so it would be naive of Xanadu and other FA corps to remove you from the KOS list after such serious charges were levelled on you. It's a wrong reasonment... you have to prove that someone is guilty not his innocence. There is no place for justice in eve, it's only a matter of interests, but i don't understand what they can get from putting a former ally in KOS list and attack them outside Fountain. Why is it the wrong reasoning? Who says any alliance or organisation has to follow innocent until proven guilty especially when it comes to a matter that threatens their security? They get revenge. @CoRM if you can prove you innocense why not post the proof of it along with the allogations to show how evil the FA has become.
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:52:00 - [37] Quote: If you are actually interested in what you say you are interested in, then a good way to start would be the following. 1. Do not refer to the FA as the NFA. There is no NFA, there is only the FA 2. Do not refer to this as only a Xanadu matter, it is not. There are well over 10 other corporations along with Xanadu. The fact that you both called the FA the NFA and portrayed Xanadu as the evil villains leads me to believe that you only wanted to stir the pot. If there is one thing this conflict does not need its more worthless inflammatory trolling. Sorry but the FA was overthrown in a coup therefore the new undemocratically elected government of the Fountain Alliance is no longer the FA of old so can no longer be refered to as the FA. It is a New Fountain Alliance wich just so happens to abrieveate to .... you guessed it... NFA. And don't play the innocent...we all know that Xanadu was behind it. I guess the rest who stayed were either happy with the NFA or didn't want to rock the boat. Now we had no ntention of stirring the pot but we have been given no choice...un-justifiably put on KOS and attacked in and out of Fountain without us engaging anyone and depite our protestations no one wanted to lift a finger to correct an error...no wonder we are P*ssed.
Shirei	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:55:00 - [38] Edited by: Shirei on 15/04/2004 13:56:35 Quote: @CoRM if you can prove you innocense why not post the proof of it along with the allogations to show how evil the FA has become. How exactly is it logically possible to post proof that you have not done something?
Jiggy	Posted - 2004.04.15 13:59:00 - [39] Quote: Edited by: Shirei on 15/04/2004 13:56:35 Quote: @CoRM if you can prove you innocense why not post the proof of it along with the allogations to show how evil the FA has become. How exactly is it logically possible to post proof that you have not done something? Show proof that FA are lying, that the allegations are false rather simple really. And if theres nothing to the allegations why would FA make them up when they could of just thrown them out with all the others?
Aerick Dawn	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:00:00 - [40] Quote: If you are actually interested in what you say you are interested in, then a good way to start would be the following. 1. Do not refer to the FA as the NFA. There is no NFA, there is only the FA 2. Do not refer to this as only a Xanadu matter, it is not. There are well over 10 other corporations along with Xanadu. Baun, no matter how you and your Eve Forum Marshalls spin your point, you will always be the NFA. I could see Xanadu and Puppets kicking HVI, they were drooling over that, but CoRM? CoRM is the most honorable organization I have ever come across with and have always had good relations and good friends. You cannot even comment on any of this Eve Forum Marshalls, you are noobs to the NFA and have no history of what the other corps bled for only to be kicked out. You are doing yourself and your NFA buddies a disservice by attempting to be their mouthpiece, I'd stop while your behind. I'm actually quite surprised they haven't pulled the plug on you yet. ______________________ What Aerick has been up to lately..
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:04:00 - [41] Quote: I challenge any NFA guy to post here that list (not edited hopefully ) if what i say isn't true. well, I'm not in the NFA, but here's your list (unedited): Quote: + outstanding ~ good, but u can do better - too low The rating is relativ, so it means the evaluation is based on the margin of deviation between the results. Which leads to the effect that corps that did attend most meetings, still get a ~ in the presence column. military - the amount of forces dedicated to defence, online times in gangs, kills,.... commercial - financial support of the alliance, in general presence - atandance of FA council meetings It is clear that the military part counts most. military commercial presence 4S ignored as they joined last week AFDT + - + BIG + ~ + CAR ~ + - CEI - - - CFI + - - CME ~ - + CORM + - + COV ~ - ~ DE ~ - + DMG + - + DNG + - + FIV + ~ + FSR ~ - + Fury ~ - + HHI + ~ + HIRR + - ~ HVI - - - INDEP - - ~ LRC - - ~ NHI - - ~ NOI ~ - missing data NUTS - - + REZ - - + S-44 + - ~ SSC - - - TCD ~ - + TFF - - ~ TPH - - - XAN + + + XFI ~ - + ----------- "Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!" Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI I have a blog
Jiggy	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:25:00 - [42] How old is that list because fury left the aliance a month or 2 ago and didnt FIV merge into xanadu?
Aerick Dawn	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:27:00 - [43] Basically at the tail end or after the FE/m0o war I beleive. I remember seeing that report as well, just not exactly sure when. ______________________ What Aerick has been up to lately..
Lettuce Prey	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:31:00 - [44] Quote: How old is that list because fury left the aliance a month or 2 ago and didnt FIV merge into xanadu? didn't you used to go by the name "icky vicky"? nuff sed
Riddari	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:33:00 - [45] (N)FA KOS list: Confederation of the Red Moon - CoRM Critical Mass Enterprises - CME Harbinger Heavy Industries - HHI HeartVenom Inc. - HVI Luna Rossa Corporation - LRC Quote: + outstanding ~ good, but u can do better - too low The rating is relativ, so it means the evaluation is based on the margin of deviation between the results. Which leads to the effect that corps that did attend most meetings, still get a ~ in the presence column. military - the amount of forces dedicated to defence, online times in gangs, kills,.... commercial - financial support of the alliance, in general presence - atandance of FA council meetings It is clear that the military part counts most. military commercial presence CME ~ - + CORM + - + HHI + ~ + HVI - - - LRC - - ~ Notice particularly CORM and HHI in the list. Dead weight argument falls flat against the (N)FA own evidence. ¼©¼ a history
The Reclaimer	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:33:00 - [46] Why is Evolution sticking their long noses in here? I'm sure they have nothing going on in Fountain.
Jiggy	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:36:00 - [47] Quote: (N)FA KOS list: Confederation of the Red Moon - CoRM Critical Mass Enterprises - CME Harbinger Heavy Industries - HHI HeartVenom Inc. - HVI Luna Rossa Corporation - LRC Quote: + outstanding ~ good, but u can do better - too low The rating is relativ, so it means the evaluation is based on the margin of deviation between the results. Which leads to the effect that corps that did attend most meetings, still get a ~ in the presence column. military - the amount of forces dedicated to defence, online times in gangs, kills,.... commercial - financial support of the alliance, in general presence - atandance of FA council meetings It is clear that the military part counts most. military commercial presence CME ~ - + CORM + - + HHI + ~ + HVI - - - LRC - - ~ Notice particularly CORM and HHI in the list. Dead weight argument falls flat against the (N)FA own evidence. The dead weight corps were the peacefully kicked corps the KOS kicked corps were kicked for other reasons.
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:40:00 - [48] Yes the list was made after the Moo war, as I understand at an FA council meeting each corp gave it's preception of the others as to how much they commited to the war...as you can see CoRM was seen to be quite active so the the charge (not one brought by the NFA) but by some other corps who are quite frankly guessing at the reasons we were kicked are unsubstatiated. Now if anyone from the NFA wants to publicly state the accuastions agaist CoRM and justify the KOS, please we would like to hear it. We sought a political souloution to the situation, we did not seek reamittance to the FA only that the KOS is removed and our pilots and equipment could be romoved. Let's remember that this happened on Saturday, we have been arguing our case behind the scenes since then and held our tonges...but pod killing our guys in empire space....that is not cool...no wonder we start to voice our disgust at our treatment. Now I for one, on this and another thread have said some hard things...blowing off steam...what do u expect..I am Caldari. But before u judge us, put yourslef in our shoes and see how it feels.
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:44:00 - [49] Quote: Quote: (N)FA KOS list: Confederation of the Red Moon - CoRM Critical Mass Enterprises - CME Harbinger Heavy Industries - HHI HeartVenom Inc. - HVI Luna Rossa Corporation - LRC Quote: + outstanding ~ good, but u can do better - too low The rating is relativ, so it means the evaluation is based on the margin of deviation between the results. Which leads to the effect that corps that did attend most meetings, still get a ~ in the presence column. military - the amount of forces dedicated to defence, online times in gangs, kills,.... commercial - financial support of the alliance, in general presence - atandance of FA council meetings It is clear that the military part counts most. military commercial presence CME ~ - + CORM + - + HHI + ~ + HVI - - - LRC - - ~ Notice particularly CORM and HHI in the list. Dead weight argument falls flat against the (N)FA own evidence. The dead weight corps were the peacefully kicked corps the KOS kicked corps were kicked for other reasons. Please enlighten us as to why CoRM was kicked and KOS?
Jiggy	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:50:00 - [50] Quote: Quote: Quote: (N)FA KOS list: Confederation of the Red Moon - CoRM Critical Mass Enterprises - CME Harbinger Heavy Industries - HHI HeartVenom Inc. - HVI Luna Rossa Corporation - LRC Quote: + outstanding ~ good, but u can do better - too low The rating is relativ, so it means the evaluation is based on the margin of deviation between the results. Which leads to the effect that corps that did attend most meetings, still get a ~ in the presence column. military - the amount of forces dedicated to defence, online times in gangs, kills,.... commercial - financial support of the alliance, in general presence - atandance of FA council meetings It is clear that the military part counts most. military commercial presence CME ~ - + CORM + - + HHI + ~ + HVI - - - LRC - - ~ Notice particularly CORM and HHI in the list. Dead weight argument falls flat against the (N)FA own evidence. The dead weight corps were the peacefully kicked corps the KOS kicked corps were kicked for other reasons. Please enlighten us as to why CoRM was kicked and KOS? Since Im not actually FA atm I have no right to give out their reasons without their consent, all in all I probebly shouldnt know why either.
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.04.15 14:57:00 - [51] Quote: Why is Evolution sticking their long noses in here? I'm sure they have nothing going on in Fountain. Get over us troll. Doing a lil npc chaining and a war breaks out.. yeah must be our fault huh? Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:00:00 - [52] Quote: I could see Xanadu and Puppets kicking HVI, they were drooling over that, but CoRM? CoRM is the most honorable organization I have ever come across with and have always had good relations and good friends. You cannot even comment on any of this Eve Forum Marshalls, you are noobs to the NFA and have no history of what the other corps bled for only to be kicked out. Thank you for your words man, you bring a tear to my eye.
Brutus Elite	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:02:00 - [53] Quote: Quote: Why is Evolution sticking their long noses in here? I'm sure they have nothing going on in Fountain. Get over us troll. Doing a lil npc chaining and a war breaks out.. yeah must be our fault huh? Well, I read this and laughed my effing socks off. So the whole takeover was not planned months in advance. Evol were not brought to fountian as a hired gun. Your right....it is just a coincidence!
Embrace Death	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:03:00 - [54] Well if this isn't the biggest load of crap I've seen. Now honestly, how do you proove that you didn't do something? Isn't this the reason courts have "innocent until prooven guilty"? Anyways. CoRM has always acted for the better of (old)FA. I recall one person saying "for how much we vote we only provide 2 members for defence". This cannot be true, we have screenshots(quite beautiful too) of giant FA blockades where we had (I think) 4BSes 2 Cruisers and a frigate(if memory fail.. give or take a cruiser) out of an entire FA blockade of about 50 BSes. Additionally, at some times when an emergency FA blockade was called for, CORM outnumbered XANADU in ships (BSs!) and once I recall being at least 1/2 of the defenders available as CoRM. I also remember the only time I had threatened an FA member was during a pirate invasion I went to our largest arkonor mining system and cursed at the guys still mining in local.(shortly after that they left and were seen defending, the corp members in question were: 2BIG, 2FIV, and 2CFI) These things we do not need to proove, as they are fact and were even commented on by lesser FA corps. Additionally, we really don't know what accusations are against us. We have been told multiple things.. "paying pirates to attack", "never being on defence", "doing stuff and not stuff". We honestly don't have a straight answer of what we are accused of and we never have an answer. Truth be told, we were kicked from FA because we didn't agree with things XANADU said in meetings, we KNOW this to be the truth, but then they go and try to cover up that reason with this crap about stuff we have never done and THEN backstab us by putting us on the NFA KOS list. Now here is where I quote from actual mails and conversations with BIG and XANADU officials~ The next post will contain another mail so keep reading. "2004.04.14 19:31:00 I admit to have mixed you up regarding the selling of offices in my mail (just so much info atm....) I just havent had the time to look up info about everything for everyone for each mail ive gotten. So a few mail slips on my part. But rest assured no such slip ups where made when teh actau decissions where made (and more ppl where present as well ofc). Regarding getting CoRm of the KoS list - It's looking bright ;) No promices though - and the final decission will not be taken until after saterdays meeting I think. Regards TornSoul BIG-CEO"
Embrace Death	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:05:00 - [55] "<[Xan]niwaie> you there? <[CoRM]AfterShock> what? <[Xan]niwaie> brisi just called me on the phone <[Xan]niwaie> telling me that you had some open questions <[Xan]niwaie> (you = CoRM) <[CoRM]AfterShock> why were we kicked from the so called FA alliance? <[Xan]niwaie> didnt you read the announcement? O_o <[CoRM]AfterShock> that is not a reason <[CoRM]AfterShock> why was my corp kicked? <[Xan]niwaie> your corp was seen as one of the elements that damaged FA <[CoRM]AfterShock> why? <[CoRM]AfterShock> in what way? <[CoRM]AfterShock> examples <[Xan]niwaie> look at the last weeks <[Xan]niwaie> or even months <[Xan]niwaie> in FA <[Xan]niwaie> there was no progress at all <[Xan]niwaie> it was impossible to make any decissions <[Xan]niwaie> and always it were the same corps blockading all and every progress <[Xan]niwaie> its fine to disagree... you have every right to do so. <[Xan]niwaie> but if disagreements goes to a point where we can not work together towards a common goal anymore it is time for a change. <[CoRM]AfterShock> so it is Zotigh <[Xan]niwaie> as i said: disagreement is fine. political discussions are fine. but when every meeting ends up as a debating club where nothing gets acchieved... <[CoRM]AfterShock> So CoRM was debating too much in the meetings? <[Xan]niwaie> i wasnt in the meetings personally <[Xan]niwaie> cant really comment on that <[CoRM]AfterShock> then why are you the one telling me this? <[CoRM]AfterShock> because I was at the meetings <[Xan]niwaie> because i am the one brisi called ;) <[Xan]niwaie> and i was more referring to the boards <[CoRM]AfterShock> I was the one who attended <[Xan]niwaie> you brought up zotigh <[Xan]niwaie> not me <[Xan]niwaie> so i was referring to zotigh <[CoRM]AfterShock> so you ARE speaking on one person <[Xan]niwaie> are we debating? :) <[CoRM]AfterShock> nope <[CoRM]AfterShock> getting to the bottom of the "reason" <[Xan]niwaie> k. you gave a name. i told you what i think about it. <[CoRM]AfterShock> you spoke of the meetings <[CoRM]AfterShock> then say your referring to the boards <[Xan]niwaie> i was referring to the meetings for the general problems we had - i e age long discussions where nothing got acchieved. this was the main reason why a change had to be made. <[CoRM]AfterShock> Come on,, straight up,, bottom line, Why was CoRM kicked from the alliance? <[CoRM]AfterShock> and I spoke of the meetings, because CoRM nor LRC made them long <[CoRM]AfterShock> the meeting thingy cannot become the reason <[CoRM]AfterShock> considering I attended all since the last few months <[CoRM]AfterShock> and let's see <[CoRM]AfterShock> The message boards? <[CoRM]AfterShock> I don't post there <[CoRM]AfterShock> and rarely do I see a post from a CoRM <[Xan]niwaie> okay <[Xan]niwaie> lets be blunt <[CoRM]AfterShock> so I guess the message boards can't be a reason <[CoRM]AfterShock> ahh <[CoRM]AfterShock> to the point <[Xan]niwaie> there are several members of your corp <[Xan]niwaie> and your sister corp <[Xan]niwaie> that are seen as a liability for the fa <[Xan]niwaie> therefore <[Xan]niwaie> when it came to the decission who to stay and who has to go <[Xan]niwaie> it was decided to not take the risk <[CoRM]AfterShock> names? <[Xan]niwaie> for example zotigh or nephilim. <[CoRM]AfterShock> they would be considered a liability? <[CoRM]AfterShock> how? <[Xan]niwaie> they were considered a liability. thats it. <[CoRM]AfterShock> aww come on <[Xan]niwaie> an alliance is about trust. if you lose trust, you have a problem. <[Xan]niwaie> the corps that form the fa decided not to trust CoRM anymore. <[CoRM]AfterShock> or a few corps <[Xan]niwaie> you wanted a simple, blunt answer. thats it. <[CoRM]AfterShock> thank you <[Xan]niwaie> you're welcome " ~_~ Index of "How to avoid any risk for Dummies" Chapter 1: Stay in Empire Chapter 2: Log off at safespot if threatened Chapter 3: Watch "players in space" and "local" Chapter 4: Switch corps if war is declared on yours Chapter 5: Equip 2 MWD and 5 warp core stableizers Chapter 6: So you still got destroyed? Things you can do. See chap. 7 "Forum trolling and maintaining your carebear image"
Embrace Death	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:12:00 - [56] Okay, now from these official comments from official Xanadu and BIG, can you see a good reason why CoRM was kicked out of FA? Yes, if you are Xanadu the answer is yes, we understand this much and we know that we often voted against Xanadu's votes(within reason). But from these mails, can you see a good reason as to WHY WE WERE PUT ON THE KOS LIST? PS~ I don't know how to post screenshots of our patrols. :(
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:18:00 - [57] Quote: Well, I read this and laughed my effing socks off. So the whole takeover was not planned months in advance. Evol were not brought to fountian as a hired gun. Your right....it is just a coincidence! No idea when this was planned. We were NOT hired. That I CAN confirm. Conicidence... hard to say. Maybe our presence made things seem to appear in a different light. According to guys like reclaimer, we sux, have no honor, don't know anything about pvp, have never destroyed a ship, and do nothing but run logservers. I mean, if we are so ineffectual and useless, why would it matter where we are/were? Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Aerick Dawn	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:31:00 - [58] Edited by: Aerick Dawn on 15/04/2004 15:32:05 The coup talk started about 2 weeks before the announcement. As far as EVOL goes. I have no position on the matter. Other than that, please stay on topic. ______________________ What Aerick has been up to lately..
Embrace Death	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:35:00 - [59] Edited by: Embrace Death on 15/04/2004 15:37:45 Ya' know.. I just read over the history of FA post and parts of this post.. and it came to me.. Everyone still in NFA are Xanadu's ***es, there is no democracy, if you start to vote agaisnt Xanadu the same thing will happen to you. Even the mighty BIG which played a part in this heeds the almight words of Xanadu. Congrats to you remaining NFA corps, ye of small pebbles who serve your dictator so wisely. ~_~ Index of "How to avoid any risk for Dummies" Chapter 1: Stay in Empire Chapter 2: Log off at safespot if threatened Chapter 3: Watch "players in space" and "local" Chapter 4: Switch corps if war is declared on yours Chapter 5: Equip 2 MWD and 5 warp core stableizers Chapter 6*: So you still got destroyed? Things you can do. See chap. 7* "Forum trolling and maintaining your carebear image"
Narim	Posted - 2004.04.15 15:40:00 - [60] Quote: Edited by: Embrace Death on 15/04/2004 15:37:45 Ya' know.. I just read over the history of FA post and parts of this post.. and it came to me.. Everyone still in NFA are Xanadu's ****es, there is no democracy, if you start to vote agaisnt Xanadu the same thing will happen to you. Even the mighty BIG which played a part in this heeds the almight words of Xanadu. Congrats to you remaining NFA corps, ye of small pebbles who serve your dictator so wisely. yawn* do you have to keep whining about it in every thread?

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