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Salpad
darkmusse Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:58:00 -
[1]
I'm used to flying a rig-less Drake, but right now I'm training up so I can fit 3 x core defence field purger rigs, to improve my Drake's passive tank.
However, IIRC the penalty for those rigs is a massive increase in signature radius.
What effect will that actually have, for a mission runner? Right now I only run level 3 missions (I did a single level 4 a few days ago with two friends - it went very well, thanks for asking), but if I run level 4s then I'll be up against battleships firing battleship-scale weapons at me. Will my increased signature radius mean that I take more damage from such weapons?
Or what are the exact effects of massively increased signature radius, for a Drake used only for mission running?
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Salpad |
MalVortex
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:01:00 -
[2]
Signature Radius is "important", but not actually important. Higher sigres makes you faster to be locked, easier to be shot, less likley to take reduced damage from missiles. In practice, Caldari shield tankers already have massive signature radiuses, and any increase to them will be massively offset by your improved tanking ability.
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:55:00 -
[3]
A corpmate of mine runs level 4s in an Onyx with 90% or higher resists, and its cruiser-sized sig radius makes it take far less damage than a Nighthawk with the same resist levels. Of course, he switched to a Nighthawk anyway for the missile bonuses to run level 4's much faster.
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Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
d3vo
Airborne Assassins
Order of the Black Cross
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:58:00 -
[4]
the benefit from purgers far outways the odds
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 00:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 28/03/2008 00:06:18
At the end of the day, the problem with purgers(and extenders if you know your stuff) is not the sig radius, but the lack of damage mods. In my experience, passive tanking is a great way to start out by protecting yourself as much as possible, but it robs your ability to do anything but sit around taking hits, and afk mission running.
After a while, this safety net made it hard for me to break out and try other styles of play because I got far too used to it. My only word of advice is, try to make your experience interesting, unless formulaic = interesting to you.
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Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Benco97
Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.03.28 00:21:00 -
[6]
Signature radius is a bit like the "Luck" stat in RPGs, it does a little bit of something to everything, sometimes. But you don't want a particularly bad "luck", that would be bad man.
 Originally by: Kirjava
This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Wet Ferret
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.28 08:12:00 -
[7]
It's insignificant on large ships, but has a more noticeable affect on small ones. Training up the shield rigging skill to 4 does help your tank some, anyway.
I believe the penalty for shield extenders is added after the rigs are taken into account, too.
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 08:31:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 28/03/2008 08:32:06
Considering that in most PvP scenario's you'd have an MWD running, i doubt it would have to much of an influence on your already bloated sig-radius. The only exception perhaps being the interceptors.
For a PvE scenario, i doubt the influence would be anything but minimal. The benefit far outweighs the cost.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.03.28 09:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Benco97
Signature radius is a bit like the "Luck" stat in RPGs, it does a little bit of something to everything, sometimes. But you don't want a particularly bad "luck", that would be bad man.
You know, that's the best analogy I've heard. Maybe it should be spread to every remote-effect module.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 09:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: d3vo
the benefit from purgers far outways the odds
This.
3 Core Defence Purger Rigs on a Drake will give you (without higher-than-necessary-to-fit Shield Rigging skills) the sig radius of a Raven, but even so the benefit of the rigs is so huge as to make this increase in sig radius irrelevant.
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Connor Banks
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 12:07:00 -
[11]
The Drakes signature radius (285 m) can be quite important when running level 4 missions. In particular when encountering alot of battleships firing at you with large weapons whoose signature resolution is 400 or more. The exception are the launchers. Cruise missiles have an explosion radius which is 300 standard, and torpedoes have a explosion radius of 450. So, the Drakes signature radius is important when facing enemies with large weapons with the exception of cruise launchers.
The damage reduction from your ships signature radius in combination with large weapons firing at you will be, according to the EVE's missile guide, (400-285)/400 = 0.28 i.e. 28%. This means that 500 raw DPS coming straight at you from large weapons will be reduced to 360 DPS, more if you face torpedoes (replace the 400 with 450 in the above equation).
Large shield extenders give each 25 units increase in sig radius and shield rigs give each 5-10% increase of base signature radius.
This means that a Drake with 2 large shield extenders and 3 shield rigs with the shield rigging skill at level 1 gets a total signature radius of 285 + 2*25 + 3*285*0.09 = 412. Clearly you loose the intrinsic damage reduction from the ships sig radius when mounting shield extenders and shield rigs.
Note that the Drake does not benefit from its sig radius when enemies fire at you with medium or small weapons. Of course, the above reasoning applies to all kinds of ships, not only the Drake 
Hope this helps.
/Connor
PS. This is why the Cerberus manages to perform so well in level 4 missions. Its sig radius of 135m can handle almost any kind of incoming DPS.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.28 12:13:00 -
[12]
Due to the way turret tracking and webs work, signature size is relevant only in a relatively small number of situations PvP-wise.
Notably, you take less damage from missiles, and you're a tad harder to lock/track if you're already going very fast and therefore mitigating a considerable amount of damage.
In the battlecruiser world, signature radius does extremely little (except boost/reduce damage taken by torps).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.03.28 12:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/03/2008 12:23:45
Do rats use sig? I thought they bypass sig for locking you. Do the rat weapons also bypass sig?
Is the small loss of tanking from useing shield rechargers over extenders worth the sig loss?
ôbut the lack of damage mods. In my experience, passive tanking is a great way to start out by protecting yourself as much as possible, but it robs your ability to do anything but sit around taking hits, and afk mission running.!ö
What! ThatÆs totally wrong the best thing about passive tanking is its modula and you can fit damage mods while tanking. Passive tanks dont have to fit every slot on tanking.
How does fitting rigs or shield extenders stop you fitting damage mods? The advantage of passive tanks is its easier to fit bigger weapons and fit more damage mods more so against amour tank fits.
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ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.28 12:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2008 12:34:33
My passive-tanked "L4 Drake" has 2 damage mods, and there would be no significant benefit in adding a third (actually, I can't even do that unless I switch to faction mods, out of CPU... and I don't plan on fiting meta6+ mods on my ship).
A typical "L4 Nighthawk" usually carries at least 2, even 3 damage mods without breaking a sweat, even against "laser opponents". Against Serpentis or Guristas you can even fit 4 damage mods if you want to, but 3 is more than enough.
"Do the rat weapons also bypass sig?"
Nope, luckily they have the same rules as normal weapons (tracking, optimal, signature, etc)... and they're pretty lousy too ! I could easily out-maneouver most damage anti-Sansha L4s in my Drake, and the Drake is not exactly a speed demon... it was the difference between shields steady at around 60-65%, or having to warp out barely alive (if sitting still).
P.S. A lesson to L4 newcomers : ALWAYS keep moving at max speed.
It's usually the difference between life and death for a less-than-ubertanked ship.
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