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Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:30:00 - [31] What im saying is you can counter curse/rapier/arazu when not prepared. You can not counter falcon without preparation.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:35:00 - [32] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 13:37:19 Originally by: Deva Blackfire What im saying is you can counter curse/rapier/arazu when not prepared. You can not counter falcon without preparation. Only because the other e-war counters have other uses like lock range or tracking and ppl will fit them willingly or even as a standard fit for the bonuses like on sniper ships. While the counter for the ecm only counters the ecm and does not help in pvp so nobody wants to fit it.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:41:00 - [33] No. I meant WITHOUT counter modules. Yes you can kill curse not having injector or compys. You acn kill arazu not having sensor booster. You cannot kill falcon without ECCM. For falcon you will need blob.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Deva Blackfire No. I meant WITHOUT counter modules. Yes you can kill curse not having injector or compys. You acn kill arazu not having sensor booster. You cannot kill falcon without ECCM. For falcon you will need blob. So in a 1v1 fight a falcon can jam but it cannot damage or move fast or tank lol and drones + fof will wipe it out. You cannot kill the other ewar ships easily if the guys flying them know their jobs unless you have the correct fit and falcons are paper thin with joke damage and speed so drones or fof will deal with them in a non blob 1v1 fight.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:51:00 - [35] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 30/03/2008 13:52:30 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 30/03/2008 13:50:56 If falcon runs and not dies its not win. Exactly same as nanophoon. So 1v1 you wont win. And its pretty probable 3v1 you wont catch him (unless you have lots of recons due to their ECCM str). Hmmm i have easy solution. Max 1 ECM module on ship can be used (1st come 1st serve). Suddenly it wont be able to permajam everything and it will be able to use other slots for "advantage" (the so called tank it lacks as you said).
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Deva Blackfire If falcon runs and not dies its not win. Exactly same as nanophoon. So 1v1 you wont win. And its pretty probable 3v1 you wont catch him (unless you have lots of recons due to their ECCM str). Hmmm i have easy solution. Max 1 ECM module on ship can be used (1st come 1st serve). Suddenly it wont be able to permajam everything and it will be able to use other slots for "advantage" (the so called tank it lacks as you said). Do that to every recon in the game to be fair although i suggest you do not let ppl who like to fly recons find you roflmao.
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2008.03.30 14:00:00 - [37] Actually even better idea. Tho damps would have to return to pre-nerf era (or at least 1,5x more on scripts OR 1 of each type script on target). As for "people who like recons". I fly curse almost on daily basis, used it back in armor tank + ecm whoring next nano-damp-invulnerable mode. And now using falcon on alt. Still i say they are overpowered and should be nerfed (but wont stop me from using FOTM anyways).
Acacia Everto	Posted - 2008.03.30 16:41:00 - [38] My buddies and I used to use damps almost exclusively, but that was because with each of us packing a damp or two we could reasonably even out battles against superior gangs. It was nice. Now we don't even bother with damps. I had no problem with damp time/range being scripted, but when they nerfed it to heavily it made damps near useless. My friend with an Arazu is now sad. Now we have a Falcon pilot along (used to be Rook, but since Falcon is the same thing but with a Covops Cloak, nobody uses Rooks) to jam everyone. A gang we used to fight brings along three in their 12 man gangs. We'd engage, but that means bringing along enough ECM to jam their Falcons now instead of damping them to come closer. Simply put: Damps need a buff, to at least be what they used to be on one stat or the other. Something, anything but continuing to be nerfed to obscurity.
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.30 16:56:00 - [39] There was never any need to nerf damps or even script them its just another example of the small minded looking to get rid of something that they were not willing to fit themselves or fit to counter.
Doddy	Posted - 2008.03.30 16:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Deva Blackfire No. I meant WITHOUT counter modules. Yes you can kill curse not having injector or compys. You acn kill arazu not having sensor booster. You cannot kill falcon without ECCM. For falcon you will need blob. Its no harder tbh, i dont really get what you mean :( As the falcon is so weedy in combat its probably easier tbh. In what way can you kill an arazu without using sensor boosters where you cant kill a falcon without using eccm?
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2008.03.30 17:16:00 - [41] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 30/03/2008 17:18:06 If you start close enough to arazu/MWD to him you can start locking within damped range. Guess you never fought against gall damp ships. But its easy to kill them - even in sabre (yeh got one or 2 odd arazu/lache kills in sabre). Falcon? Try again. You will NEVER manage to tackle it unless you either drop bubble (dictor) or have blob large enough so he cant jam you. Even with 1x ECCM mod falcon WILL jam you sooner or later. And reasons why its that? Damps are stacking nerfed, so are TDs. If you use 10 damps its same as if you used 4. ECM is not: using 10x ECM mod on ship is better than using 4. EDIT: also by default ECM modules are much stronger in effect than damps. To disable ship (like no lock range/no scan res) you need 4 damps (2x range 2x lock time). 4 ECM mods will disable 2 ships easily (even ravens are quite easy to jam with 2 racials on their head). And if you fight with cruiser sized ships (HACs, t1 cruisers, BCs, commands) you have almost guaranteed 4 jammed ships (around 90-95% per most of them/ECM module).
Doddy	Posted - 2008.03.30 17:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 30/03/2008 17:18:06 If you start close enough to arazu/MWD to him you can start locking within damped range. Guess you never fought against gall damp ships. But its easy to kill them - even in sabre (yeh got one or 2 odd arazu/lache kills in sabre). Falcon? Try again. You will NEVER manage to tackle it unless you either drop bubble (dictor) or have blob large enough so he cant jam you. Even with 1x ECCM mod falcon WILL jam you sooner or later. And reasons why its that? Damps are stacking nerfed, so are TDs. If you use 10 damps its same as if you used 4. ECM is not: using 10x ECM mod on ship is better than using 4. EDIT: also by default ECM modules are much stronger in effect than damps. To disable ship (like no lock range/no scan res) you need 4 damps (2x range 2x lock time). 4 ECM mods will disable 2 ships easily (even ravens are quite easy to jam with 2 racials on their head). And if you fight with cruiser sized ships (HACs, t1 cruisers, BCs, commands) you have almost guaranteed 4 jammed ships (around 90-95% per most of them/ECM module). Yeah i have never fought damp ships, obviously The whole "if you start close enough" comment kinda says it all about your arguement tbh. "if you start close enough" to a falcon he is probably just as dead seeing as they are made of paper. As for the stacking, damps are only stack nerfed if you are using them on the same target. You do not need 4 damps to disable a ship either 2 will do ( no sensor booster remember) so basically you can disable 2 with either. Sure enough you have to keep range, and its more difficult, but thats why a lachesis is tougher and does more damage than a rook. Your point seems to be that a falcon will get a jam off and run away eventually but you can say the same thing about any ship that is faster than you as well.
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2008.03.30 17:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Doddy The whole "if you start close enough" comment kinda says it all about your arguement tbh. "if you start close enough" to a falcon he is probably just as dead seeing as they are made of paper. As far as i remember falcon has around 3-4k shields with 1x LSE. I dont see any ship killing 4k shields + armor + struct before falcon can lock it. If you know one - please give me more info. Id gladly kill falcons easily before they magae to jam me. Quote: As for the stacking, damps are only stack nerfed if you are using them on the same target. You do not need 4 damps to disable a ship either 2 will do ( no sensor booster remember) so basically you can disable 2 with either. One damp can barely cut your lock range to 0,3x (or lock time). This is enough to get lock decently fast on any ship (even HAC will lock you in around 8-10 seconds). Quote: Sure enough you have to keep range, and its more difficult, but thats why a lachesis is tougher and does more damage than a rook. Your point seems to be that a falcon will get a jam off and run away eventually but you can say the same thing about any ship that is faster than you as well. Thats the "nano" problem which this topic is not about. And as far as i know "nanos" are going to get fixed too. Again. And in what way lachesis is tougher than the rook? If i remember correctly rook has 7 mids and CAN fit tank. Its your problem you opt to put even more imbalanced ECM onto it.
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.30 17:57:00 - [44] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 17:59:34 1. ecm do not need stacking penalties because they do not have a cumulative effect they either work or not unlike damps. 2. If speed is the answer to killing an arazu then drones and FOF missiles are the answer to falcons. 3. you claim that speed is needed to kill the arazu and later you claim that the "nano issue" is another topic. So are you saying that if speed gets nerfed that you will be looking to nerf arazu's damps again claiming they are over powered?. Its just a circle of nerfs wanted by pilots who think that just because they cannot out think, out fit, out skill or out fly a problem that it is a unsolvable problem and needs a nerf instead of the fact that they just aint as good as they think.
Doddy	Posted - 2008.03.30 18:12:00 - [45] Edited by: Doddy on 30/03/2008 18:14:56 Edited by: Doddy on 30/03/2008 18:13:30 Edited by: Doddy on 30/03/2008 18:13:17 Edited by: Doddy on 30/03/2008 18:12:35 Originally by: Deva Blackfire One damp can barely cut your lock range to 0,3x (or lock time). This is enough to get lock decently fast on any ship (even HAC will lock you in around 8-10 seconds). If one damp could damp to 0.3* range they would be ridiculously overpowered, i take it you mean the 2 together? 0.3* the range of most ships in this game renders them totally useless at a range well inside a lachesis scram range, and unlike the rook there is no chance of "missing". So unless you are up against a recon or a higher tier bs thats a pretty big advantage. Also the recons and higher tier bs are the ones the rook will have more trouble jamming too. Gang wise 1 rook + 1 lacheis with scan res damps can disable more ships than 2 rooks aswell. If you are in a fleet situation it only takes 1 mod per bs to mess them up, which is more effective than the rook. I'll take your word for it that rooks are tougher than lachesis, in my obviously limited experience (?) rooks fold gratifyingly quickly where-as lachesis tend to active tank and hang around being annoying for ages. I amn't even saying lachesis aren't underpowered (why are the rigs so crap??), its just all the people who have gone from putting damps on anything that moves to "OMG the lachesis/arazu is crap" plainly haven't even tried them.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.30 18:39:00 - [46] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 17:59:34 1. ecm do not need stacking penalties because they do not have a cumulative effect they either work or not unlike damps. and using 2x ECM on one ship is not more effective than using 1? Dream on and read about statistics. Quote: 2. If speed is the answer to killing an arazu then drones and FOF missiles are the answer to falcons. WTB 150-200km drone range and FOF missile range (ah ofc falcon needs to be CLOSEST enemy to be hit Quote: 3. you claim that speed is needed to kill the arazu and later you claim that the "nano issue" is another topic. So are you saying that if speed gets nerfed that you will be looking to nerf arazu's damps again claiming they are over powered?. Arazu is pretty slow. Nano nerf will hit both arazu and other ships. Thus you can still catch up to it. Quote: Its just a circle of nerfs wanted by pilots who think that just because they cannot out think, out fit, out skill or out fly a problem that it is a unsolvable problem and needs a nerf instead of the fact that they just aint as good as they think. And thats just counter-whine of pilots who want their FOTM to be still uber.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.30 18:58:00 - [47] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 19:05:39 Originally by: Deva Blackfire and using 2x ECM on one ship is not more effective than using 1? Dream on and read about statistics. Of course the more you try to use the more chance you have to jam but if the first ecm fails it does not reduce the sensor str of the ship for the second one. While damps do reduce range or speed and cannot fail thats why they have stacking penalties. Originally by: Deva Blackfire WTB 150-200km drone range and FOF missile range (ah ofc falcon needs to be CLOSEST enemy to be hit So you say that you need to be on top of the arazu to kill it but you seem to think that the falcon will be immune to fast ships and ppl getting close to it. They both need the attacker to be on top of them so its all square again as far as kill ability is concerned in fact the arazu has a much better tank. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Arazu is pretty slow. Nano nerf will hit both arazu and other ships. Thus you can still catch up to it. Then the nano nerf will effect all recons as the arazu and falcon need to be engaged at close range to be killed. Originally by: Deva Blackfire And thats just counter-whine of pilots who want their FOTM to be still uber. It takes the same thing to kill a falcon as it does an arazu, ie: uber close range the only diff is the you need drones or FOF for the falcon while the arazu can be killed by guns or normal missile. So the nerf is not needed at all.
Siigari Kitawa	Posted - 2008.03.30 19:59:00 - [48] The whole problem I have with damps is they are borked. You cannot damp range AND scan res anymore. And God knows that if you only get to pick one they can STILL LOCK YOU. So you can't realistically "lock down" targets with an Arazu anymore. I speak as a skilled Arazu pilot. It is really hard to balance modules and still pack a punch. Damps kill cap quickly and you need to be in somewhat close range to fight with an Arazu. You can't hang back to 60km and expect to be effective. So therein lies the problem. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2008.03.30 20:18:00 - [49] Quote: Of course the more you try to use the more chance you have to jam but if the first ecm fails it does not reduce the sensor str of the ship for the second one. While damps do reduce range or speed and cannot fail thats why they have stacking penalties. Damps can fail like all EWar. Surprise - damps have pretty short optimal and when used in faloff they have normal "to hit" chance. If you miss there is no damp effect. Quote: It takes the same thing to kill a falcon as it does an arazu, ie: uber close range the only diff is the you need drones or FOF for the falcon while the arazu can be killed by guns or normal missile. And whats gonna keep falcon from WARPING when FOF or drones hit him? Surely not that "uber close range" but already jammed ship? And arazu on other hand when gets locked is dead. And i guess i hit dead on - you are falcon user who doesnt want to get his toy nerfed. Sorry, FOTM must get balanced. Bye.
Feng Schui	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:09:00 - [50] Edited by: Feng Schui on 30/03/2008 21:10:50 Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 13:30:35 Originally by: Deva Blackfire So oyu can counter curse w/o tracking mods (or even injector). You can counter arazu w/o sensor boosters. Same for huginn/rap. But ONLY falcon needs SPECIFIC module to counter it? Im not sure i understand what your getting at pls explain. e-war tracking disruptors---------> Get Low transversal on the ships you want to hit damps-----------> Fly into range webber + target painter---------> fly out of range / maintain high transversal. ECM----------> ??? Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:10:00 - [51] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 21:16:11 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Quote: Of course the more you try to use the more chance you have to jam but if the first ecm fails it does not reduce the sensor str of the ship for the second one. While damps do reduce range or speed and cannot fail thats why they have stacking penalties. Damps can fail like all EWar. Surprise - damps have pretty short optimal and when used in faloff they have normal "to hit" chance. If you miss there is no damp effect. Quote: It takes the same thing to kill a falcon as it does an arazu, ie: uber close range the only diff is the you need drones or FOF for the falcon while the arazu can be killed by guns or normal missile. And whats gonna keep falcon from WARPING when FOF or drones hit him? Surely not that "uber close range" but already jammed ship? And arazu on other hand when gets locked is dead. And i guess i hit dead on - you are falcon user who doesnt want to get his toy nerfed. Sorry, FOTM must get balanced. Bye. So because a falcon can warp off in a 1v1 fight you think it is over powered lol wtf can it kill cos it hits like a girl and tanks like a noob ship but because its go the ability to get away from a single ship (no a dictor ofc) you think its over powered. I fly the arazu mostly as my main is a 54 mil sp pure pvp gallante char but to fly the falcon is only a cruiser skill to 5 and a few ecm skills from using. I just do not like nerfits like you who think that a ship needs nerfing because you do not have the intellect or ingame pvp skills to counter or deal with it.
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:11:00 - [52] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 21:10:53 Originally by: Feng Schui Originally by: maralt Originally by: Deva Blackfire So oyu can counter curse w/o tracking mods (or even injector). You can counter arazu w/o sensor boosters. Same for huginn/rap. But ONLY falcon needs SPECIFIC module to counter it? Im not sure i understand what your getting at pls explain. e-war tracking disruptors---------> Get Low transversal on the ships you want to hit damps-----------> Fly into range webber + target painter---------> Lower your transversal ECM----------fly into fof and drone range fixed
Feng Schui	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:13:00 - [53] Edited by: Feng Schui on 30/03/2008 21:13:25 Originally by: maralt fixed FoF missiles are STILL using items specifically to counter ecm. And btw, drones don't auto engage someone using ecm on you if they are out of drone control range, even if you do get into range while being ecm'd, they'll just sit there idle. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:30:00 - [54] Edited by: maralt on 30/03/2008 21:32:31 Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 30/03/2008 21:13:25 Originally by: maralt fixed FoF missiles are STILL using items specifically to counter ecm. And btw, drones don't auto engage someone using ecm on you if they are out of drone control range, even if you do get into range while being ecm'd, they'll just sit there idle. So 1. If its a 1 v 1 fight. 2. If a falcon locks you first so you cannot assign drones or damp him. 3. If he gets a jam before you get a damp(cos its not 100% guaranteed). 4. If he has no FOF and you can keep him at range. 5. If you fit it with tackle. Thats a lot of ifs for a uber ecm ship that needs a nerf but tbqh wtf is the falcon supposed to do with the guy he is fighting because it hits like a girl and nobody i know fits it with a web and a point so the target can warp off as well. The more i read the more i think it needs a boost.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.30 21:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 30/03/2008 21:24:04 Originally by: maralt fixed FoF missiles are STILL using items specifically to counter ecm. And btw, drones don't auto engage someone using ecm on you if they are out of drone control range, even if you do get into range while being ecm'd, they'll just sit there idle. edit: Just want to clarify, that I don't think ECM ships are overpowered. ECM ships do their job, well. Why can't the Gallente / Amarr ewar ships perform as such? Even the Minmatar ewar ships perform admirably. Wait for them to fail on their jam, and one volley them/sic drones, or otherwise just destroy them instead. The reason the Gallente/Amarr ewar ships can't do as such, is because unlike the falcon, they do _several things_. You may consider the DPS of these ships to be poor, but compare 'em to a falcon sometime. They get to tank too, and whilst that's poor as well, again, it's still way better than the falcon's is, whilst not sacrificing operational capability. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.30 22:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Erotic Irony won't ever happen the chance based nature of ecm coupled with impotent direct damage ecm ships makes the analogy to damps invalid--besides part of your complaint is already possible via heat Still doesnt change the fact that damps <<<<<< ecms.
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.30 22:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: Erotic Irony won't ever happen the chance based nature of ecm coupled with impotent direct damage ecm ships makes the analogy to damps invalid--besides part of your complaint is already possible via heat Still doesnt change the fact that damps <<<<<< ecms. All other recons >>>>>>>>>> falcon in every other way.
Tobias Sjodin	Posted - 2008.03.30 23:03:00 - [58] Nah, don't nerf. Buff. Buff damps, other recons. Nerf nerfers. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Black Hand.
Mahn AlNouhm	Posted - 2008.03.30 23:16:00 - [59] You've cherry picked your arguments throughout the course of this thread losing your credibility in the process. You spit out numbers which are representative of best case scenario situs only. You seem to conveniently omit that you're using race specfic jammers in every one of the examples. You talk is if a rook fits a full rack of racial specific jammers all the time. What happens if my gang and I get caught in sub optimal situations? What if I fit my falcon with for a bunch of Amarr boats only to be ganked by some megas? Non racial jammers will give me a paltry jam strength of 4. 4. So, if I'm roaming or sitting at a gate, I'm usually fitting 2 gallente, 2 matar, 1 amarr, and 1 caldari. Think about that. My "uber" 14 point jam strength is only applicable to 2 ships of whatever race in a given circumstance. If I want more, I have to fly to a station, dock up, switch fittings, and fly back to the battle, killing valuable time to contribute to my gang. Multi specs are a poor substitute for racial jammers, btw. Oh, and if I gank someone in low sec, I can't even dock up to switch for 15 minutes. I've missed out on some good fights because flying in with non racial jammers would have put my ship at undue risk. Falcons, if fit for the task, are excellent ships to have, but you can be caught with your pants down, and when you are you're a sitting duck. No other recon has to deal with that degree of inconvenience or risk. No other recon has to be so freakin careful about how they fly their ships. You talk as if flying around in an ECM boat is like flying around in the fist of God. Not so. It's a much more tactical boat than your other recons, and it requires an unprecedented degree of prescience to fly well. Look, OP, I know that Falcons make you cry. If you're pounding your keyboard in anger because I got another cycle in on you with my jammers, causing you to lose your faction fit CN Raven, I fly away satisfied. Nothing I like more than a bitter, F*** YOU! in local. (ebil, blood thirsty pirate here) But fact is, I hate being jammed as much as the next guy. However, instead of moaning about my inability to target, brooding about how the mechanic is overpowered, I cowboy up, sacrifice a mid slot (which would have been used for another ECM module, which, if you think about it, is my equivalent to dps AND tank) and fit ECCM. Voila. I can now fly along side the enemy rook with impunity. I think most of the other posters have pretty clearly explained to you why your idea is fail. ECM is not FOTM, its just that some of the other recons aren't up to snuff. If ECM were to be nerfed to the stone age again, rest assured that the whiners here would next set their sights on Matar recons, because, comparatively, they're pretty damn good. I submit that ECM is a powerful tool. Its popularity is rising because the other options aren't as good. Thing is, if you were to nerf ECM boats, the number of people flying the other ships wouldn't increase. Their viability wouldnt be any greater because the rook or falcon isn't as strong. People would simply resort to flying ships that give more bang for the buck, IE, they would fly dps support, and that's about it. Diversity is what makes this game so excellent. Leave the Falcon be, buff the other recons so they are as feared, and quit whining, please. . . . Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Feng Schui	Posted - 2008.03.30 23:30:00 - [60] Originally by: maralt FoF missiles are STILL using items specifically to counter ecm. And btw, drones don't auto engage someone using ecm on you if they are out of drone control range, even if you do get into range while being ecm'd, they'll just sit there idle. So 1. If its a 1 v 1 fight. 2. If a falcon locks you first so you cannot assign drones or damp him. 3. If he gets a jam before you get a damp(cos its not 100% guaranteed). 4. If he has no FOF and you can keep him at range. 5. If you fit it with tackle. Thats a lot of ifs for a uber ecm ship that needs a nerf but tbqh wtf is the falcon supposed to do with the guy he is fighting because it hits like a girl and nobody i know fits it with a web and a point so the target can warp off as well. The more i read the more i think it needs a boost. you're missing the entire point. Not only are we not talking about 1v1 situations here, we are talking about EWAR. Not ships. Pre Scripts (on the specific ewar ships), you would need: ECM: 2 Racial ECM's for 1 target to perma jam (or 2 multispecs if you're maxed skilled) Damps: 3 Damps for 1 target, or 2 if you're max skilled Tracking Disruptors: 2 TD's for 1 target, if its a turret only ship. Target Painters: 1 target painter for 1 target. After Scripts (Yes, still on the same ships, but now all skills are maxed out), you now need: ECM: Same (2 ecm's for 1 person) Target Painters: Same (1 target painter for 1 person) Damps: 6 Damps for 1 person (4 targeting range, 2 scan res) Tracking Disruptors: 6 TD's for 1 person (3 Optimal+Falloff scripts, 3 tracking speed) Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide

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