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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:30:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
You can turn this around on them if you feel daring though. Go ahead and join, warp with them. Right as your ship starts leaving warp, drop from teh fleet. If you time it right, you will still falsh red to the bad guys but not be a valid target, Concordokken  Time it wrong and you get blown up....
Every time I read another of these threads, I wonder if this will work...
I also wonder about the timing, if the first shot is fired before the server gets the leave fleet-> Confirm will you still be a ligit target...
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:31:00 -
[32]
I trust exactly 5 people in game; they all live within 3 hours drive from me and I have their phone numbers and addresses 
I converse with several dozen on friendly terms, working and playing with them. I know the possibility exists for one of them to screw me over (and in the past one has), but in the meantime I can accept that risk for the rest of the benefits of flying with them.
Even here there is Risk vs Reward. Risk of being screwed over vs the Reward of companionship and assistance.
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Not at all, he had to come up with the ISK to buy it before he could "print ISK".
Sure, but replacing it won't be a problem, so why even bring up the "hard earned" part?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hamfast
I also wonder about the timing, if the first shot is fired before the server gets the leave fleet-> Confirm will you still be a ligit target...
Big time legitimate target :P It looks like once the target lock is ATTEMPTED you are still shootable even after dropping. The window is very small (I've missed more than I've hit...)
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:33:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 01/04/2008 15:35:28
Could this scam be flipped around by bringing your corp in with you to the warp in, at which point they would shoot you, giving your corp kill rights? Or heck, just ask the guys if they mind you bringing some corp members with you to help. If they say yes, then its a scam.
But I do think that something should be changed so that fleet members can not shoot each other in high sec. Too much room for abuse, and I dont think it adds anything to Eve. We are just discouraging people from helping each other, which doesnt seem in the spirit of Eve.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Could this scam be flipped around by bringing your corp in with you to the warp in, at which point they would shoot you, giving your corp kill rights? Or heck, just ask the guys if they mind you bringing some corp members with you to help. If they say yes, then its a scam.
But I do think that something should be changed so that fleet members can not shoot each other in high sec. Too much room for abuse, and I dont think it adds anything to Eve.
Unfortunately your corp/alliance doesn't get reciprocal shoot rights. They will sit there helplessly watching you die.
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Garat Mant
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Unfortunately your corp/alliance doesn't get reciprocal shoot rights. They will sit there helplessly watching you die.
What's the reason for that? It seems weird that your corp couldn't protect you once the fighting starts.
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Garat Mant
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Unfortunately your corp/alliance doesn't get reciprocal shoot rights. They will sit there helplessly watching you die.
What's the reason for that? It seems weird that your corp couldn't protect you once the fighting starts.
I've never understood it myself.
Bad guy steals from your can = corp freefire
Bad guy WTFBBQs you = move along, nothing to see here
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Miika Finsa
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.01 15:59:00 -
[39]
I agree that this is an exploit but one that the devs will never ever resolve.
The reason I call it an exploit is this:
you join a group that is in war, it will specifically pop up a flag giving a very specific warning.
You join the group outside of war, and well you get a much different warning.
You get no warning for when the war target joins the group post you joining said group.
This is where I think the game should take some action to at least warn you that something is going on with an option to quit said group.
But, since this is not the case rule 1 in eve is never trust anyone.
Because CCP is passive on this you must live by rule 1 at all times because CCP really just doesn't care about empire rats
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Malcanis
Bad guy steals from your can = corp freefire
Yeah, but Alliance CAN'T either  Makes logistics working on mining ops and such an annoyance. Your cover ships need to either be in teh same corp as the mining barges or they need to drop the cans for the barges to put ore in. And all the cover needs to be in the same corp.
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Darwin Duck
Ark Royals
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Garat Mant
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Unfortunately your corp/alliance doesn't get reciprocal shoot rights. They will sit there helplessly watching you die.
What's the reason for that? It seems weird that your corp couldn't protect you once the fighting starts.
I've never understood it myself.
Bad guy steals from your can = corp freefire
Bad guy WTFBBQs you = move along, nothing to see here
This I agree on, when someone attacks you all corp members should get kill rights on that player. Grief tools > protection tools atm. This should be balanced out.
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Lubomir Penev
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 01/04/2008 16:22:58
Originally by: VInanath Diesel
I did read the warning. It said NO ONE is @ war. Apparently that warning wasn't worth anything.
The warning also said that if any member of the fleet would become at war you'd be fair game.
About 1 sec after you joined the fleet someone at war was invited to it, second laters you were ganked...
Trust no one, learn to read.
But the real fix would be non warring fleet that no one at war could join.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Lubomir Penev
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Darwin Duck
This I agree on, when someone attacks you all corp members should get kill rights on that player. Grief tools > protection tools atm. This should be balanced out.
Nice, so you engage a pirate at a gate and all his corpmates would be able to engage you without the sentry guns on them...
No really what you propose is worse than how it is now. And you can always REPAIR your corpmate (his aggressor will get the right to shoot you).
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Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
AKULA UrQuan
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:24:00 -
[44]
The fact that you where flying a pimped CNR greatly incressed the chances of it happening. Showing off wealth attracts muggers and they'll use every trick in the book to get at you.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Garat Mant
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Darwin Duck
This I agree on, when someone attacks you all corp members should get kill rights on that player. Grief tools > protection tools atm. This should be balanced out.
Good Lord, it must be April Fools' day, we're agreeing with each other 
I'm trying to think like a evil scampirategrieferbbq but I am apparently too angelic and/or dumb to figure it out: What exploit or negative action could result from allowing a corp to fire on its members aggressors?
Scammer A lures Corpie B into gang. Alt C joins gang, allowing Pirate Corp D to attack Corpie B.
Now what happens if Corpie B's corpmates were allowed to attack D? I am assuming that B couldn't attack *all* of D, as that would be like an unannounced wardec. However it should be OK for B's corp to attack those in D that attacked B?
Also, in this forum there's 3 devil/pirate smileys and no angel smileys. This clearly shows bias against those of us who are pure as the driven snow 
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Darwin Duck
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Posted - 2008.04.01 16:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Darwin Duck
This I agree on, when someone attacks you all corp members should get kill rights on that player. Grief tools > protection tools atm. This should be balanced out.
Nice, so you engage a pirate at a gate and all his corpmates would be able to engage you without the sentry guns on them...
No really what you propose is worse than how it is now. And you can always REPAIR your corpmate (his aggressor will get the right to shoot you).
Yepp, if you are under attack all corp members should be able to help. repairing someone should not give kill right, but firing on others should. Isn't this supposed to be a player driven world where having friends pay off and enemies not so much?
Pirates should be able to help their friends too ya know!
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AngeFredinauQwertia
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Posted - 2008.04.01 17:14:00 -
[47]
I have only 4 suggestions about this:
1. do not trust to anyone in EVE (especially if you dont want pvp)
2. ESC->General settings-> autoreject invitations ON
3. NEVER give money to pirates when captured, they will ALWAYS blow you up, no matter how much ISK you give to them
4. if you wish to save your pod: wait for ship destruction and warp into savespot or run away through stargates (don't warp to station!!!, you will not be able to dock because of agression timer) or if you have lags, just press logoff (with some luck this can help you to save pod, but if pirates have a probber = you are dead).
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.01 17:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: VInanath Diesel
System: Aramachi
Mistake #1. Get out of the crowded mission hubs and you'll be a lot safer. I used to fly for a level IV CN agent in Aramachi until it got too crowded, then I set up shop with a Zaniou level IV agent in a much less crowded system. I earn cash a little more slowly, but I'm far less likely to ever lose a ship to a scam or a suicide gank.
Originally by: VInanath Diesel
Security: 0.5
Mistake #2. HiSec isn't safe, only safer. Always assume that anyone you don't know is going to try to shoot your ship out from under you. And they'e never alone.
Originally by: VInanath Diesel
demanding a ransom of 600 mil
Mistake #3. If you do get scammed, never ever pay any sort of ransom. Scammers generally have no honor and will not hesitate to pop your ship after you pay the ransom. They are, after all, after 'maximum profits'
Sorry you had to learn the hard way, but at least you learned.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Jonathan Calvert
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Posted - 2008.04.01 18:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 01/04/2008 18:41:31
What about making it a basic rule in high sec that if you attack someone in high sec who you are not at war with or do not have kill rights, you get concorded. And kill rights apply to everyone. Furthermore if you excercise kill rights, it does not flag you. THis would mean if you steal someones ore, anyone can kill you. If you attack a fleet member who you are not at war with, you get concorded. ANy objecttion to this?
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Armoured C
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Posted - 2008.04.01 18:54:00 -
[50]
wait you can attack people you are in the gang with, i swear down i got concorded when i acidently attacked someone from a friendly corp instead of flipping the logistics on them when we were all ganged up O_O can someome please explain to me properly ho gang actually works
been playing for 2 years and thought that you get concorded for attacking anyone that not in your corp gang or no gang O_O
thanks in advance
and lolz you actually didnt attempt to leave gang when someome was added more for you
pirate for the win ===)
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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VInanath Diesel
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Armoured C
...and lolz you actually didnt attempt to leave gang when someome was added more for you
pirate for the win ===)
Actually I did attempt (as I was in warp when I saw other ppl join) to leave the fleet, unfortunately it did not work. Irregardless I've taken the advice of some the posters here and now know how to avoid this in the future. Unfortunately the whole matter has somewhat pushed me into being a misanthrope. Blame CCP, the scammers or the broken fleet warning, I don't care. I will certainly not be helping anyone ever again in the near foreseeable future. Lesson learned
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Knight Destroyer
Redneck Messiahs
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:23:00 -
[52]
do as i do, i have had a couple people trying this and never have they succeeded  , i say "ok sure, invite me to gang"
i warp to them and while in warp i leave gang, so when i arrive sometimes its a legit request for help and i help them with the mission, but with not been in gang i DONT touch the wrecks
if it is a trick as i arrive, they ain't got the gang advantage anymore, if they attack, great, within 3 minutes concord arrives pops them and i get a nice new kill mail :)
simple resolve for the issue that i tell everyone, "u dont need to remain in the gang to run the mission, only to get there" so once in warp, leave gang that way problem solved and u aint gotta worry about losing to this concord work around.
as i say, CCP gives ways for PVP'rs to trick people...but also gives the other side a trick to avoid the trap
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Ethen Bejorn
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Posting GM logs on these forums is against the rules, you can either edit them out now or wait to have a moderator do it for you.
Wouldn't want everyone seeing how stupid the GMs are now would we?
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AngeFredinauQwertia
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:36:00 -
[54]
That how it works:
1. man A (probably from a newbie corp and without any war) asks man B to help him with mission
2. man A gives gang invitation to man B
3. man B takes invitation
4. man A invites into gang man C wich have offwar with man D
5. man D have rights to kill man B
So, if you realy wish to help someone you have to do 2 things:
1. Check if this person is not at war withsomeone else (either directly or by corporation managment screen: wars\find there his corp)
2. Demand that he gives you fleet leadership (so man A can't invite man C into fleet)
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.01 19:45:00 -
[55]
As much as I laugh when a missionrunner loses out when hiding in hisec...
the lofty is an exploit and should be fixed, pure and simple.
Very simple solution until then: Just CTRL + Q when you see the second guy join the fleet.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:03:00 -
[56]
I'm not sure if I should say this, but flying a navy issue pimp-mobile but not having the marbles to know a potential ganking when it comes knocking is pretty much evidence that you can go too far, too fast in Eve. You should trust people in inverse proportion to the ISK value of the kit your are flying; the more it costs, the bigger a target you are.
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Inconstant Moon
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:05:00 -
[57]
Just another reason to play this MMOG as a single player game.
Hey, CCP, feel like fostering some community spirit? No? Thought not.
Worst MMOG ever.
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CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:31:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Just another reason to play this MMOG as a single player game.
Hey, CCP, feel like fostering some community spirit? No? Thought not.
Worst MMOG ever.
I feel sorry for you, I really do. I'm not smacking or mocking you in anyway, but you truly are missing the point of this game. It seems to make you really angry, but it should be so much fun.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Saori Rei
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:39:00 -
[59]
Sadly the 'no one is at war' warning is of no use to you because it doesnt stop the fleet commander inviting someone who IS at war since you dont get a warning for that if you're already in the party. Thus by bypassing the warning you are now a war target.
Lovely huh? :S
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.01 20:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Malcanis
it should be so much fun.
Yeah, I know. All it would take is a tiny bit of effort on CCP's part to change the tone of the community from schoolyard bullies to mature, intelligent players. Such a loss that they refuse to do so.
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CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
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