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Asset search pretty useless as it doesn't look in cans.

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Tyria Sharken TalCorp Enterprises Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 04:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. Not sure if anyones answer this 'somewhat' for ya yet.. but i'll give it a try with what little i know of codeing and programming. What you, and alot of other people, have been wanting is basicaly a screen were you can open up 1 window, then in the list, click on another container (that isnt actualy with you) and look inside. Now.. for the performance issue... Here's what i 'think' ends up happening if you impliment it.. Rather than the Server only haveing to show you whats in your current location, and 'pictures' of what is sitting on the floor of your other hangers, Now it has to 'open' your container itself, then load up all the objects inside it, file it all into order, then print it onto a screen specaly coded NOT to let you actualy move or take any items from it. Thats alot of extra 'searching and printing' that you dont already have. + the extra codeing required to make those newly opend 'containers' un-touchable (for all intent and purposes) --------------------------------------------- "Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare. Men, and ants."
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.05 04:43:00 - [62] You never should have to wonder what is in your can... I know less than you think I do. Gemini Sun is Recruiting
Grarr Dexx Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.06.05 07:34:00 - [63] Use the assetmanager. I set it up in under five minutes yesterday after I clicked that link, real easy. Plus it saves the devs a lot of headache.
Tobbstar	Posted - 2008.06.05 08:05:00 - [64] Why cant i sort my searches in diffrent catagories like ships, mods, ammo etc.. like it can when u look in station assets ?
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.05 08:39:00 - [65] Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 05/06/2008 09:13:31 Originally by: Tobbstar Why cant i sort my searches in diffrent catagories like ships, mods, ammo etc.. like it can when u look in station assets ? You just CAN'T. Computers are ABYSMAL at storing and sorting data, they always have been. They suck at maths too. Look, CCP made it VERY simple to understand. If you have 500 different stacks of objects, TQ is ok telling you about them if they are in HANGARS. BUT if you put THE EXACT SAME OBJECTS in CANS, then TQ will fall over and DIE if you try to query the database. (Even though, magically, it doesn't struggle if I OPEN THE CAN) Just because to the layman this stinks of BULLPIES, doesn't make it any less true. --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
AltBier Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.06.05 12:40:00 - [66] Edited by: AltBier on 05/06/2008 12:47:54 Originally by: Haks'he Lirky They are developers, not customer support, not marketing, not community managers, they are developers. Either you ask for developers to stop posting or you accept the fact that developers are developers. Edit: missed one developers. developers! Indeed. Developers generally are frank and honest but not always diplomatic. Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: CCP Prism X ...looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Are you saying that the Database would fail if people stopped putting their stuff in Cans? There is a limit to the amount of stacks you can have in each hangar and each can. Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? I wasn't aware that replying to a 2 month old thread is considered necroing. Originally by: CCP Prism X For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Thank you.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:10:00 - [67] I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ***-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:51:00 - [68] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ****-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=650828 At any rate, it's incomplete, as one might expect. I've encountered this kind of problem before and solved it. Then again, I work in a data warehouse. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.06.05 16:22:00 - [69] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ****-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere The problem is that the DB query to return results including items within cans is much more complex than the DB query to return results not including items within cans. If you are a DB savvy person and have looked at the assets XML then this should be obvious even without knowing the precise details of the DB structure. That is immediatley going to hit performance on an already massively active table. Furthermore, it may be the case that the structure of the DB is such that it will magnify these problems further. The fact is, if they tell you exactly why, you'll either go 'oh. I don't understand that' or you'll say 'oh. Fair enough'. In other words, what the hell is the point? Just accept it and move on. You think they are trying to get out of doing it just cos they decided they don't want to or somthing? I work as a developer and I constantly have to tell customers, managers, etc that things are either impractical, impossible or whatever. That's my job. They don't know the details and they can't understand the details but they trust what I say because I'm a professional. Let the CCP devs do their jobs and stop trying to be clever cos I can pretty much guarantee you are not going to be able to magicaly come up with a solution to this regardless of how much you know about it. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Salvis Tallan The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:09:00 - [70] Honestly, I have no problems with this. I feel that we can do far more with the API than will be done in eve, and faster than they can. ------
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:15:00 - [71] Originally by: Ambo Let the CCP devs do their jobs and stop trying to be clever cos I can pretty much guarantee you are not going to be able to magicaly come up with a solution to this regardless of how much you know about it. No, not regardless of how much we know about it. Some of us are "clever devs" ourselves. Either way, I'm not disagreeing with the overall gist of your message (just that you shouldn't assume that we couldn't come up with something clever if we knew enough about it). All things considered, I hate the asset search feature in the client anyway. ;-) -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:19:00 - [72] Edited by: Franco Caruso on 05/06/2008 17:24:05 Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 04/06/2008 19:15:45 Well then, please let us arrange our items into groups like, drones, ammo and charges, etc, and having something like folders instead of just a long list... Originally by: CCP Prism X ...looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Are you saying that the Database would fail if people stopped putting their stuff in Cans? No what he is saying that the assets table is the busiest one and that a generic call to the database like "Hey, database show me what I own !" uses 1 maybe 2 indexes whilst a call to the database "Hey, database show me items I own at station 123456" will use a different one ( based on charid, stationID ) and a call that looks inside a container "Hey, database show me what I own in container 1234567890 !" will use a different one again ( based on containedInID ). Using the most generic, non-index using call will cause the most stress and therefor should be ( and let me add, I am happy that it is ) be avoided. All index or fieldnames are fictional and I have no clue how CCP structured their database.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Oku Kee'lus Edited by: Oku Kee''lus on 04/06/2008 19:19:10 Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. If you allow the API to pull the query once every 24 hours. Why not do that in-game, and show the result ingame, instead of having people rely on out of game tools? Results are shown, if you can't figure out that you have to name your cans to recall what you have in them, please do not ask a dev to help you.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Fifth Horseman But the API interface doesn't screw the database. Still, at 50% price increase, they can barely afford a database, let alone a computer to run it on. Drugs, share. What price increase ? MSSQL is a database and it does NOT run on A computer.
Ankanos School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.05 19:05:00 - [75] Hi people... i havent gone thru the whole thread so sue me if this has been mentioned already. I found an excellent solution to the Author's title subject.. I've been using a new-ish eve tool called Eve MEEP "Eve-Online Multiuse Economic Efficiency Planner" (http://www.eve-meep.com) amongst some of the features this tool (using a Full access API Key) is that it downloads your Asset db to your HD, and lets you search it. -and it kicks results very fast..including hits on cans.. the caveat being that while the search hits cans and what station they are in, it does NOT tell you the name of the can (if named) only the type of can it is.. for me this is a drawback as i use no less than 22 vaults&cans at my main base.. -however, -at least i'm getting a good clue as to were or if i even own whatever it is i'm looking for. -for that i am gratefull. (i'm not the most organized kid on the block..esp with 4yrs+ worth of assets scattered around the galaxy) -anyway, i find myself tabbing over to MEEP more often than not when going thru my assets just for speed reasons alone (vs the game client) its not a perfect solution, nor an ingame one. but it beats a blank. -just a thought.. -ank ---
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.06 11:49:00 - [76] Running 3rd party applications makes my firewalls and virus software cry. --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:30:00 - [77] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ***-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=650828 At any rate, it's incomplete, as one might expect. I've encountered this kind of problem before and solved it. Then again, I work in a data warehouse. -Liang Much obliged! I'll have a wee gander when I get time. I'm with you, btw, there are always solutions. Whether it involves restructuring the data or optimising queries there's always something. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Rheddin	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:53:00 - [78] Edited by: Rheddin on 06/06/2008 12:53:50 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. ..? So, why not build it into the client and only use the funstionality available thorugh the Eve API? either the client creates the requests, or 3rd party software does. the performance hit is the same, no? or am I missing something?
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Rheddin Edited by: Rheddin on 06/06/2008 12:53:50 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. ..? So, why not build it into the client and only use the funstionality available thorugh the Eve API? either the client creates the requests, or 3rd party software does. the performance hit is the same, no? or am I missing something? The only thing perhaps missing is that the API queries a mirrored database, which only updates every so often. However, as has already been mentioned, alot of people would be happy with that anyway. Cause lets be honest - the only people doing deep searches like this will be people who have misplaced something they don't use frequently, in which case the chance of it changing within 24 hours is minimal. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.

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