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Asset search pretty useless as it doesn't look in cans.

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Fink Angel The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.04.08 20:18:00 - [1] The game is designed so you sort your stuff into station cans to keep your hangars tidy, right? I've got tons of stuff in many different stations, and the one useful finder, the assets search tab, only works if your item is sitting on the hangar floor. It would be particularly handy if it could trawl through all your goods and let you know exactly where something is. (Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? )
Shakuul Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.04.08 20:41:00 - [2] Sometimes if its a specific, valuable item you can petition and a GM will help you find it. I'd imagine the reason they don't look in cans is some combination of poor coding/lag problems that might come with expanding searches. I'm sure its been asked for hundreds of times on the ideas forum.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.08 20:42:00 - [3] Agreed - at least give us the ability to look in cans from the assets window. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7)
Imperator Jora'h Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.08 20:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Fink Angel (Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? ) Maybe you should have named the can "Implants" and then search for cans. I'm with you though. Wish it would look in cargo holds too. I found a 500 million mod in a ship's cargo the other day by accident (in a ship I hadn't used in ages). I recall only wanting two and not finding one I assumed I was just crazy and bought another. Now I have three. Not a huge deal and my own drunken fault I'm pretty sure but still... -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Cori4n principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Fink Angel (Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? ) Use the API ;)
Rodanine School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:10:00 - [6] asset manager Try this
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:11:00 - [7] Or Eve-Meep //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Nemetes Fermi Industrial Associates	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:21:00 - [8] Another thing I would also love to see from the assets window is what each ship I own is fitted with. Maybe a right-click option on a ship > show current fitting...
Smantha Dering Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:26:00 - [9] When I was young a poor I found a badger in one of my hangars loaded with about 200m isk worth of loots. Would have been nice if I found it sooner but hell it's like finding a 20 in your coat pocket from the winter before, it's yours but damn if it doesn't feel like you won it!
Rodanine School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Nemetes Another thing I would also love to see from the assets window is what each ship I own is fitted with. Maybe a right-click option on a ship > show current fitting... you can do that with the asset manager i linked

Zalmox Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.08 21:35:00 - [11] Edited by: Zalmox on 08/04/2008 21:35:51 Ah excellent. Although it would be nice to be able to do it without having to use another program. -Nemetes
Raoden Tanstaafl Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.08 22:09:00 - [12] Another thing regarding cans that I'd like to do, is if a can is sitting in my hanger, I'd like to sell, reprocess, and refine directly from the can instead of moving a bunch of stuff in and out of cans to my main hanger space...
Overwhelmed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.08 22:15:00 - [13] What's worse is if you lose something in the cargo hold of a shuttle you left somewhere. ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions.

CCP Explorer C C P	Posted - 2008.04.08 22:27:00 - [14] Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Imperator Jora'h Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.08 22:36:00 - [15] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to show the item is in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.04.09 10:09:00 - [16] Thanks for all the responses guys, especially for the links to the two API asset management tools. What a great community spirit, people who build this sort of thing! Ta for the dev response above too. It's a shame, but fair enough, you know the ins and outs of things and there's no point adding more stress to the servers if it's a "heavy hitter". It's good just to know "no chance" and move on, TBH.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.04.09 12:07:00 - [17] You can get info on what's fitted in a ship/stored in a ship in Eve without having to use an external program. Create an Item Exchange contract for the ship you want info on and before you finalize it, it will show you the modules that are either fitted or stored in it too. Won't allow you to search for items but sure lets you check the contents of a ship from a distance.
War Games Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.09 12:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. (sarcasm) You heard the man... Queries are simply too much of a drain on system performance... (/sarcasm) Yeah, I gotta be honest... I got nothing. This is typical CCP shinnanigans. A query that doesn't look in cans versus all hangars... come on. (what is that one / two lines of code) BTW... gonna start looking at those player created tools a little more closely later tonight. What Gaming Dev's really think of you!
Krxon Blade	Posted - 2008.04.09 12:47:00 - [19] I think that "No, because of extra database stress" shouldn't be excuse for not implementing this useful options into game: - ability to remotely see whats in our cans - same goes to our ship fittings Removing (or not adding) game features in order to ease database looks like attempt to support as many players as possible, at any cost. There is also a lot of other things which could add to game visual diversity, such as: - visible damage on ships - custom ship colors - displaying corp logo on our ships - visual representation of installed modules, not just guns - ability to stick three wings and paint my ceptor in bright red - etc But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships. -- EVE offline game
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 12:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. My guess: Items in containers are stored in the database as a different category as items in hangars, possibly with a different ID or maybe just a different variable. The database tables are continually optimized, but only to retrieve data based on items in hangars. The query to retrieve items inside containers would be more intense because eithera: 1. The item table is optimized purely for hangar access and you would see much longer access times 2. Items in containers reference a specific "containers" table that isn't optimized If the assets window is populated by querying all of the relevant hangars and then caching it, doing a crapload of SQL queries on the un-optimized table could take a while. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)

Cosmar Gallente Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:15:00 - [21] I can understand why the search wouldn't work. But can you make it so that i can at least look at a station container from a distance ? I wanted to sort my stuff but when i realised if i did it makes it harder to find items then i gave up.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarminic If the assets window is populated by querying all of the relevant hangars and then caching it, doing a crapload of SQL queries on the un-optimized table could take a while. Yeah, chances are good they'd have to massively change their queries to deal with containers which are assembled, secure or not secure, password entered?, then grabbing the contents. It's not impossible obviously, but depending on how queries are tuned it can be a monstrous hit per search. Multiply that by potentially 30k people doing it at at the same time, and the database team will NEVER get a chance to go drinking. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Krxon Blade But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships. CCP are doing everything they can to let things run smoothly and still a lot of players experience (and complain about) lag. You're suggesting that CCP should add more and more features to the game which are not only absolutely crap but will also increase both server-side and client-side lag?!? Skills Explained
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:25:00 - [24] Originally by: War Games This is typical CCP shinnanigans. A query that doesn't look in cans versus all hangars... come on. (what is that one / two lines of code) ...and... Originally by: Krxon Blade I think that "No, because of extra database stress" shouldn't be excuse for not implementing this useful options into game... ...snip... But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships. So, wait. You both are more interested in adding further lag into the game? A Dev comes in and tells you why it can't be done - and you say, "we don't care" and continue? Thanks. Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen You can get info on what's fitted in a ship/stored in a ship in Eve without having to use an external program. Create an Item Exchange contract for the ship you want info on and before you finalize it, it will show you the modules that are either fitted or stored in it too. Won't allow you to search for items but sure lets you check the contents of a ship from a distance. THIS.. ..works with cans too and has done for the last 14 months. Bandures > Tommy, you like a cowboy harry )
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:30:00 - [26] Edited by: Andrue on 09/04/2008 13:34:36 It's not at all hard to see that there is a performance issue with extending the assets search. SQL databases are not hierarchical so the usual way to represent a container is to give its children a parent ID. You can probably find all the items by querying on the owner but in order to be useful you need to be able to group by container. My guess is that the assets algorithm could currently be: items=Get_all_items_owned_by(<character ID>); Foreach( item in items) { itemLocation=itemLocations.GetLocation(item.LocationID); if(null==itemLocation) { itemLocations.Add(new ItemLocation(item.LocationID)); itemLocation=itemLocations.Last; } itemLocation.Add(item); } If you want to further group by container you'd have to change the last Add() logic: if(item.ContainerID is HanagerID) { itemLocation.Add(item); } else { container=item.Location.FindContainer(item.ContainerID); if(null==container) { container=item.location.AddContainer(item.ContainerID); } container.Add(item); } That's more than one or two line of code. Ordinarily I wouldn't expect a huge performance issue from code like that as long as the containers were indexed or hashed it should be fine. However the Eve client seems to suffer from generally poor performance so I'm prepared to accept the dev's explanation. One easy answer is that containers tend to have a lot of items in them so by ignoring contents you can probably vastly reduce the amount of data returned by the query. It depends how many players organise their stuff into containers to keep hangar floors tidy. In my case a query for 'objects outside containers' would probably return a tenth the amount of data that 'all objects owned' would. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:10:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Couldn't it be possible to implement Querying the API in the Eve client? Did the left hand lose the right hand's phone number? //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Cor Aidan KNIGHT'S OF THE ROUND ROOM	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:18:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I'm confused as how using the EVE API (which must access the database to be useful) is acceptable where the EvE client itself accessing the database is not.
Trojanman190 The Conflagration New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:19:00 - [29] Guess what else it does not do... show fittings on ships. That needs to be taken care of as well.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:45:00 - [30] I've downloaded and run Meep and it's done the business. I'd never have found that plug-in (augmentation) I was looking for, as it was in the hold of a shuttle of an alt I'd used it to transport from Jita. Also I've found a BPO for a Small Tractor Beam that I'd lost about a month after they were released. I'd mentally been cursing CCP for "losing" this during a patch during a database clean up! However it was once again given by me to one of my alts for a factory or ME job, and as far as I can tell it's still sitting there waiting to be picked up. A couple of years later!

Cor Aidan KNIGHT'S OF THE ROUND ROOM	Posted - 2008.04.09 17:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Tarminic I thought you could only query data like that once every hour? Or am I thinking of something else... Hrm. I know it says that on the EvE website with character info; didn't realize it was for the full API. If it is, though, then there is already a mechanism in place for limiting access to the database. Still doesn't explain why they couldn't integrate it into the client - just have something like "You have already requested a search within this hour, please wait and try again later," when the API gives its error message.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 17:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Cor Aidan Originally by: Tarminic I thought you could only query data like that once every hour? Or am I thinking of something else... Hrm. I know it says that on the EvE website with character info; didn't realize it was for the full API. If it is, though, then there is already a mechanism in place for limiting access to the database. Still doesn't explain why they couldn't integrate it into the client - just have something like "You have already requested a search within this hour, please wait and try again later," when the API gives its error message. I think that all the asset data is searched in advance and shown as you open or close tabs - I.E. you may only be looking under the "region" tab but the data for all your items is already sent to the client. In order to change it they would have to re-work how the data is sent to the client or cache your entire assets for one hour. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.09 17:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Andrue One easy answer is that containers tend to have a lot of items in them so by ignoring contents you can probably vastly reduce the amount of data returned by the query. It depends how many players organise their stuff into containers to keep hangar floors tidy. In my case a query for 'objects outside containers' would probably return a tenth the amount of data that 'all objects owned' would. Can you do an asset search for all assets? Seems a much more benign problem when viewed only as looking for a single type of item then the only data returned to me are instances of that item's occurrence. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.09 18:22:00 - [34] You can see what's in a can if you try and contract it, same with ships. Not ideal, but hey.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.04.09 18:45:00 - [35] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. At worst, can't you do a "search in cans" option that look only in cans, for performance reasons? Having the option to look to ANY asset would be damn usefull for CEOs and directors, and I don't think its asking for the moon, either... ------------------------------------------
AltBier Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:33:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Looking into a can remotely is more performance intensive than opening a can in the same station? More performance intensive than checking all the buy/sell orders in a region?
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:20:00 - [37] Its worth changing the mechanics of the game to make this work, not being able to search inside containers is one of the worst limitations that exists in EVE today. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:28:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Is that some sort of joke? What next? A warning about keyloggers? --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
Trojanman190 Altruism. Malice.	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Fifth Horseman Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Is that some sort of joke? What next? A warning about keyloggers? We can't properly search in cans because of performance issues? You know you could just give us the ability to create folders in our hangers, and then we won't need freaking cans. You could also setup the search querying to be done hourly like the api. I really don't see a reason performance issues would have an effect if the api is just doing a retireval of hte same information, just a smaller number of times.
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:44:00 - [40] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/06/2008 14:53:37 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. I suppose you can tag that mostly to inventors today. I have several cans with 999 BPC in my invention hangar (and 3 hangar in the same system to differentiate invention, building and ship hangars). Add to that several hangars with containers for some hundred different mods, illegals, NPC stuff, POS fuel, partially used mining crystals and so on. I think I could easily multiply x5 or more my already massive hangar load if a search function would browse the containers too. I am a packrat, but I suppose I am not the only one.

Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Krxon Blade I think that "No, because of extra database stress" shouldn't be excuse for not implementing this useful options into game: - ability to remotely see whats in our cans - same goes to our ship fittings Removing (or not adding) game features in order to ease database looks like attempt to support as many players as possible, at any cost. There is also a lot of other things which could add to game visual diversity, such as: - visible damage on ships - custom ship colors - displaying corp logo on our ships - visual representation of installed modules, not just guns - ability to stick three wings and paint my ceptor in bright red - etc But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships. Ok, you pay for 45 dollars for account and get all the nice bits added, without regard to reducing performance for the server as the people playing will be 1/3. Mmmh, maybe EVE will lose more than 2/3 of the players, make that 90 dollars month. You start to see why the will keep the database load low and spread the cost of development/maintenance between a larger number of players?
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:57:00 - [42] Originally by: AltBier Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. Looking into a can remotely is more performance intensive than opening a can in the same station? More performance intensive than checking all the buy/sell orders in a region? Open a can with 999 BPC then we can speak if it is not performance intensive , or even better one of the old can full of bookmarks (recall those?).
Ki Tarra Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 15:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Venkul Mul Open a can with 999 BPC then we can speak if it is not performance intensive , or even better one of the old can full of bookmarks (recall those?). Good heavens. I have a handfull of bookmarks that I keep in a corp hanger for easy transfer to alts, just bookmarks to 4 or 5 stations that I use most often. Opening that hanger takes over a minute just because there is something funky about having bookmarks in it. Opening a container that is filled with bookmarks would probably kill the client.
Humwawa	Posted - 2008.06.04 15:16:00 - [44] Dont be so bloody untidy hehe Keep certain things in certain stations and make notes of them. I have max 10-15 stations show up in assets - Why - Because I am fussy and tidy .)
PhamNuwen Abyss Rangers	Posted - 2008.06.04 15:21:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I assume everybody understands the problem of the database load. But maybe you could prepare a inventory-service? A special "agent" provides a service to collect all information about my items all over the univers. Maybe for some ISK. After 1..7 days he is sending me all the data and I'm able to export it. With informations about the content of all containers and it's location. With informations about BPO and BPCs. ---
Torndeco IP II IMI IP my pod	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:10:00 - [46] Blah u all complain when theres already a community programs available for free. Or u could code one yourself easy enough to the job if u are paranoid. If they add the feature in client it would get more used by everyone, including new players. People would get lazy and go ohh damn where i left that one item, and query the whole lot. Ingame Feature Database will prob need to be optimzed for it. Would prob need to be changed to every 5 mins for full list. Thus Assets Window needs to be revamped to display ships fittings or cans / location. Deadspace / POS etc... LAG LAG LAG Jita bad enough to warrent a deciated server just for it. (IF) If its full list is not updated to every 5 mins. To avoid extremely excess lag. Extra client cpu spent and checking item id values to see whats been moved around. And update the Full Assets where needed. Versus Current System U can use the api to query where everything is And i mean everything i.e in cans, ships holds, fitted to ships (regardless if at pos or in space or in a station. This is updated every 24 hours, which prob means its done at dt and maybe offloaded to a different server than the database server. Just requires people to search forums, download a program, install it. And they run the program when needed... No problems with the api list only been updated every 24 hours

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:25:00 - [47] Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:42:00 - [48] yes, thats what i do myself, i like to keep everything neat, and i put it all in large cargo containers, and name them by what their contents have, such as: Weaponry 1, Ammo Container 1, Armor Equipment 1, etc. just do that and you should be fine, and you can do that to help limit your search, and with a little effort you can remember where you left that darned thing
master chiefy Monkey Universe Corporation Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:51:00 - [49] Edited by: master chiefy on 04/06/2008 16:51:24 Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. Well, I don't care if this makes it in or not although it would be good. The reason I'm replying is the attitude that some of you Dev guys take. Pull your heads in and don't give people the "you have your answer" type responses. If you're going to post, post with some respect for customers - regardless of how many times you or any of your "elite" friends have to repeat yourselves. Lock it if you have to. But don't get smart about it.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.04 16:59:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. Hey Prism X, do you guys vertically partition that table (I assume it to character_items or something.. got a link to the Eve DB Schema?) ? -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.04 17:07:00 - [51] Originally by: master chiefy Well, I don't care if this makes it in or not although it would be good. The reason I'm replying is the attitude that some of you Dev guys take. Pull your heads in and don't give people the "you have your answer" type responses. If you're going to post, post with some respect for customers - regardless of how many times you or any of your "elite" friends have to repeat yourselves. Lock it if you have to. But don't get smart about it. Honestly, Prism is one of the best devs to get to respond to your thread... at least he tells you what is and isn't possible (and usually, why). Honestly, you should have more respect for the devs - when was the last time you dealt with a few hundred thousand angry people clamoring about how laggy your game is (since you put in some cool new feature that they requested)? -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Haks'he Lirky Dominion Imperium	Posted - 2008.06.04 17:12:00 - [52] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 04/06/2008 17:15:34 Originally by: master chiefy Well, I don't care if this makes it in or not although it would be good. The reason I'm replying is the attitude that some of you Dev guys take. Pull your heads in and don't give people the "you have your answer" type responses. If you're going to post, post with some respect for customers - regardless of how many times you or any of your "elite" friends have to repeat yourselves. Lock it if you have to. But don't get smart about it. They are developers, not customer support, not marketing, not community managers, they are developers. Either you ask for developers to stop posting or you accept the fact that developers are developers. Edit: missed one developers. developers!
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.04 17:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky They are developers, not customer support, not marketing, not community managers, they are developers. Either you ask for developers to stop posting or you accept the fact that developers are developers. You're my project manager, aren't you? -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Bleeshtar	Posted - 2008.06.04 17:16:00 - [54] Eve asset manager http://wiki.heavyduck.com/EveAssetManager I dont know if it looks in your cans or not to be honest.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.04 17:44:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. Your answer was / is pants. A 3rd party tool was written to call the api which queries your most active table, does it not? So why can't the client do this exactly the same way? Or does the api not query your table but queries some other magical copy of the table and thus make the client do that? Have the client cache it's last query just like the API does. Have the asset button show a "your queries are cached for 15 minutes". Whatever... just don't have us forced to use / write tools that do exactly what the client could do and then say that it can't be done.
Neth'Rae Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.04 19:14:00 - [56] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 04/06/2008 19:15:45 Well then, please let us arrange our items into groups like, drones, ammo and charges, etc, and having something like folders instead of just a long list... Originally by: CCP Prism X ...looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Are you saying that the Database would fail if people stopped putting their stuff in Cans? Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Oku Kee'lus Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.06.04 19:19:00 - [57] Edited by: Oku Kee''lus on 04/06/2008 19:19:10 Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. If you allow the API to pull the query once every 24 hours. Why not do that in-game, and show the result ingame, instead of having people rely on out of game tools?
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.06.04 19:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Zakgram Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. Your answer was / is pants. A 3rd party tool was written to call the api which queries your most active table, does it not? So why can't the client do this exactly the same way? Or does the api not query your table but queries some other magical copy of the table and thus make the client do that? Have the client cache it's last query just like the API does. Have the asset button show a "your queries are cached for 15 minutes". Whatever... just don't have us forced to use / write tools that do exactly what the client could do and then say that it can't be done. You assume that when you query via the API, its doing a query on the live DB. This is obviously not the case. The information you can retrieve via the API is updated by CCP in a controlled manner at preset intervals...for things like assets I wouldnt be surprised if it was updated at DT, meaning it lags a day behind what you really have. the limitation is basically to stop ahat players from making 1k cans with 1k stacks of 1 unit of trit, then searching their assets when the pvp engagement they are in goes south. Another case of the few ruining it for the many. The client using the API to get this info would be nice tho, even if it would be out of date as much as the third party tools. Then, it only lags you out, not the server node. Originally by:** Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.04 20:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn You assume that when you query via the API, its doing a query on the live DB. This is obviously not the case. The information you can retrieve via the API is updated by CCP in a controlled manner at preset intervals...for things like assets I wouldnt be surprised if it was updated at DT, meaning it lags a day behind what you really have. Without seeing the stuff that CCP don't publish - for example how it works - it's difficult to know what it's doing. I assume the API is a direct DB query since it would be inefficient for the API server to have data pushed to it every few minutes on the off chance that somebody bothers to run the API query. It could also be a replicated database - so the API server gets data from a replicate of the live database, or whatever. I don't really care tbh - the API works, the in-game version doesn't work as well as it could. The in-game could just do an API call and get it's data from there but doesn't. Random people could send isk into my account. But they don't
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.05 01:43:00 - [60] But the API interface doesn't screw the database. Still, at 50% price increase, they can barely afford a database, let alone a computer to run it on. --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.

Tyria Sharken TalCorp Enterprises Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 04:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at. If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me. Not sure if anyones answer this 'somewhat' for ya yet.. but i'll give it a try with what little i know of codeing and programming. What you, and alot of other people, have been wanting is basicaly a screen were you can open up 1 window, then in the list, click on another container (that isnt actualy with you) and look inside. Now.. for the performance issue... Here's what i 'think' ends up happening if you impliment it.. Rather than the Server only haveing to show you whats in your current location, and 'pictures' of what is sitting on the floor of your other hangers, Now it has to 'open' your container itself, then load up all the objects inside it, file it all into order, then print it onto a screen specaly coded NOT to let you actualy move or take any items from it. Thats alot of extra 'searching and printing' that you dont already have. + the extra codeing required to make those newly opend 'containers' un-touchable (for all intent and purposes) --------------------------------------------- "Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare. Men, and ants."
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.05 04:43:00 - [62] You never should have to wonder what is in your can... I know less than you think I do. Gemini Sun is Recruiting
Grarr Dexx Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.06.05 07:34:00 - [63] Use the assetmanager. I set it up in under five minutes yesterday after I clicked that link, real easy. Plus it saves the devs a lot of headache.
Tobbstar	Posted - 2008.06.05 08:05:00 - [64] Why cant i sort my searches in diffrent catagories like ships, mods, ammo etc.. like it can when u look in station assets ?
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.05 08:39:00 - [65] Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 05/06/2008 09:13:31 Originally by: Tobbstar Why cant i sort my searches in diffrent catagories like ships, mods, ammo etc.. like it can when u look in station assets ? You just CAN'T. Computers are ABYSMAL at storing and sorting data, they always have been. They suck at maths too. Look, CCP made it VERY simple to understand. If you have 500 different stacks of objects, TQ is ok telling you about them if they are in HANGARS. BUT if you put THE EXACT SAME OBJECTS in CANS, then TQ will fall over and DIE if you try to query the database. (Even though, magically, it doesn't struggle if I OPEN THE CAN) Just because to the layman this stinks of BULLPIES, doesn't make it any less true. --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
AltBier Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.06.05 12:40:00 - [66] Edited by: AltBier on 05/06/2008 12:47:54 Originally by: Haks'he Lirky They are developers, not customer support, not marketing, not community managers, they are developers. Either you ask for developers to stop posting or you accept the fact that developers are developers. Edit: missed one developers. developers! Indeed. Developers generally are frank and honest but not always diplomatic. Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: CCP Prism X ...looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Are you saying that the Database would fail if people stopped putting their stuff in Cans? There is a limit to the amount of stacks you can have in each hangar and each can. Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? I wasn't aware that replying to a 2 month old thread is considered necroing. Originally by: CCP Prism X For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Thank you.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:10:00 - [67] I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ***-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:51:00 - [68] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ****-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=650828 At any rate, it's incomplete, as one might expect. I've encountered this kind of problem before and solved it. Then again, I work in a data warehouse. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.06.05 16:22:00 - [69] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ****-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere The problem is that the DB query to return results including items within cans is much more complex than the DB query to return results not including items within cans. If you are a DB savvy person and have looked at the assets XML then this should be obvious even without knowing the precise details of the DB structure. That is immediatley going to hit performance on an already massively active table. Furthermore, it may be the case that the structure of the DB is such that it will magnify these problems further. The fact is, if they tell you exactly why, you'll either go 'oh. I don't understand that' or you'll say 'oh. Fair enough'. In other words, what the hell is the point? Just accept it and move on. You think they are trying to get out of doing it just cos they decided they don't want to or somthing? I work as a developer and I constantly have to tell customers, managers, etc that things are either impractical, impossible or whatever. That's my job. They don't know the details and they can't understand the details but they trust what I say because I'm a professional. Let the CCP devs do their jobs and stop trying to be clever cos I can pretty much guarantee you are not going to be able to magicaly come up with a solution to this regardless of how much you know about it. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Salvis Tallan The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:09:00 - [70] Honestly, I have no problems with this. I feel that we can do far more with the API than will be done in eve, and faster than they can. ------

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:15:00 - [71] Originally by: Ambo Let the CCP devs do their jobs and stop trying to be clever cos I can pretty much guarantee you are not going to be able to magicaly come up with a solution to this regardless of how much you know about it. No, not regardless of how much we know about it. Some of us are "clever devs" ourselves. Either way, I'm not disagreeing with the overall gist of your message (just that you shouldn't assume that we couldn't come up with something clever if we knew enough about it). All things considered, I hate the asset search feature in the client anyway. ;-) -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:19:00 - [72] Edited by: Franco Caruso on 05/06/2008 17:24:05 Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 04/06/2008 19:15:45 Well then, please let us arrange our items into groups like, drones, ammo and charges, etc, and having something like folders instead of just a long list... Originally by: CCP Prism X ...looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." Are you saying that the Database would fail if people stopped putting their stuff in Cans? No what he is saying that the assets table is the busiest one and that a generic call to the database like "Hey, database show me what I own !" uses 1 maybe 2 indexes whilst a call to the database "Hey, database show me items I own at station 123456" will use a different one ( based on charid, stationID ) and a call that looks inside a container "Hey, database show me what I own in container 1234567890 !" will use a different one again ( based on containedInID ). Using the most generic, non-index using call will cause the most stress and therefor should be ( and let me add, I am happy that it is ) be avoided. All index or fieldnames are fictional and I have no clue how CCP structured their database.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Oku Kee'lus Edited by: Oku Kee''lus on 04/06/2008 19:19:10 Originally by: CCP Prism X Why was this necroed? You have your answer. It's not happening due to performance issues. I'm sure some people find it weird. Especially those who do not know EVEs database, server and the communications between them. No biggie as it's quite common that we have misconceptions about things we know nothing about. For those who are DB savvy I'll explain this in these words: "What this is suggesting (or what precedence the simplest form would set) is looking for everything everywhere in the most active table in the DB. You might as well ask for a client side Vote for DB-Failover button." You also have your solution. Necroing is bad, mkay. If you allow the API to pull the query once every 24 hours. Why not do that in-game, and show the result ingame, instead of having people rely on out of game tools? Results are shown, if you can't figure out that you have to name your cans to recall what you have in them, please do not ask a dev to help you.
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.06.05 17:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Fifth Horseman But the API interface doesn't screw the database. Still, at 50% price increase, they can barely afford a database, let alone a computer to run it on. Drugs, share. What price increase ? MSSQL is a database and it does NOT run on A computer.
Ankanos School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.05 19:05:00 - [75] Hi people... i havent gone thru the whole thread so sue me if this has been mentioned already. I found an excellent solution to the Author's title subject.. I've been using a new-ish eve tool called Eve MEEP "Eve-Online Multiuse Economic Efficiency Planner" (http://www.eve-meep.com) amongst some of the features this tool (using a Full access API Key) is that it downloads your Asset db to your HD, and lets you search it. -and it kicks results very fast..including hits on cans.. the caveat being that while the search hits cans and what station they are in, it does NOT tell you the name of the can (if named) only the type of can it is.. for me this is a drawback as i use no less than 22 vaults&cans at my main base.. -however, -at least i'm getting a good clue as to were or if i even own whatever it is i'm looking for. -for that i am gratefull. (i'm not the most organized kid on the block..esp with 4yrs+ worth of assets scattered around the galaxy) -anyway, i find myself tabbing over to MEEP more often than not when going thru my assets just for speed reasons alone (vs the game client) its not a perfect solution, nor an ingame one. but it beats a blank. -just a thought.. -ank ---
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.06.06 11:49:00 - [76] Running 3rd party applications makes my firewalls and virus software cry. --- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:30:00 - [77] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I've got to say, if it's not locked, it's not considered old, and thus can't be 'necroed'. Necroing happened because of the ***-poor attempt at a forums that this is. And as for the 'no it's not happening', then I want to know why, precisely. What you gave was far far too vague for any 'database savvy' people to go on. Solutions have been offered, and no comment as yet - does that mean those solutions hold merit? Liang - where did you find the schema? I can't find them anywhere http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=650828 At any rate, it's incomplete, as one might expect. I've encountered this kind of problem before and solved it. Then again, I work in a data warehouse. -Liang Much obliged! I'll have a wee gander when I get time. I'm with you, btw, there are always solutions. Whether it involves restructuring the data or optimising queries there's always something. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Rheddin	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:53:00 - [78] Edited by: Rheddin on 06/06/2008 12:53:50 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. ..? So, why not build it into the client and only use the funstionality available thorugh the Eve API? either the client creates the requests, or 3rd party software does. the performance hit is the same, no? or am I missing something?
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Rheddin Edited by: Rheddin on 06/06/2008 12:53:50 Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API. ..? So, why not build it into the client and only use the funstionality available thorugh the Eve API? either the client creates the requests, or 3rd party software does. the performance hit is the same, no? or am I missing something? The only thing perhaps missing is that the API queries a mirrored database, which only updates every so often. However, as has already been mentioned, alot of people would be happy with that anyway. Cause lets be honest - the only people doing deep searches like this will be people who have misplaced something they don't use frequently, in which case the chance of it changing within 24 hours is minimal. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.


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