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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:18:00 -
[1]
The game is designed so you sort your stuff into station cans to keep your hangars tidy, right?
I've got tons of stuff in many different stations, and the one useful finder, the assets search tab, only works if your item is sitting on the hangar floor.
It would be particularly handy if it could trawl through all your goods and let you know exactly where something is.
(Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? )
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:41:00 -
[2]
Sometimes if its a specific, valuable item you can petition and a GM will help you find it. I'd imagine the reason they don't look in cans is some combination of poor coding/lag problems that might come with expanding searches. I'm sure its been asked for hundreds of times on the ideas forum.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:42:00 -
[3]
Agreed - at least give us the ability to look in cans from the assets window. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Fink Angel (Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? )
Maybe you should have named the can "Implants" and then search for cans.
I'm with you though. Wish it would look in cargo holds too. I found a 500 million mod in a ship's cargo the other day by accident (in a ship I hadn't used in ages). I recall only wanting two and not finding one I assumed I was just crazy and bought another. Now I have three. Not a huge deal and my own drunken fault I'm pretty sure but still... -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Cori4n
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Fink Angel (Yes, I've got an expensive implant in a can somewhere, and now I want to plug it in do you think I can find the bloody thing? )
Use the API ;)
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Rodanine
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:10:00 -
[6]
asset manager
Try this
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:11:00 -
[7]
Or Eve-Meep
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Nemetes
Fermi Industrial Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:21:00 -
[8]
Another thing I would also love to see from the assets window is what each ship I own is fitted with. Maybe a right-click option on a ship > show current fitting...
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Smantha Dering
Sam's Space Guys
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:26:00 -
[9]
When I was young a poor I found a badger in one of my hangars loaded with about 200m isk worth of loots. Would have been nice if I found it sooner but hell it's like finding a 20 in your coat pocket from the winter before, it's yours but damn if it doesn't feel like you won it!
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Rodanine
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nemetes Another thing I would also love to see from the assets window is what each ship I own is fitted with. Maybe a right-click option on a ship > show current fitting...
you can do that with the asset manager i linked
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Zalmox
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zalmox on 08/04/2008 21:35:51 Ah excellent. Although it would be nice to be able to do it without having to use another program.
-Nemetes
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Raoden Tanstaafl
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:09:00 -
[12]
Another thing regarding cans that I'd like to do, is if a can is sitting in my hanger, I'd like to sell, reprocess, and refine directly from the can instead of moving a bunch of stuff in and out of cans to my main hanger space...
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:15:00 -
[13]
What's worse is if you lose something in the cargo hold of a shuttle you left somewhere. ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions. |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:27:00 -
[14]
Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to show the item is in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at.
If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.04.09 10:09:00 -
[16]
Thanks for all the responses guys, especially for the links to the two API asset management tools. What a great community spirit, people who build this sort of thing!
Ta for the dev response above too. It's a shame, but fair enough, you know the ins and outs of things and there's no point adding more stress to the servers if it's a "heavy hitter". It's good just to know "no chance" and move on, TBH. |
Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:07:00 -
[17]
You can get info on what's fitted in a ship/stored in a ship in Eve without having to use an external program.
Create an Item Exchange contract for the ship you want info on and before you finalize it, it will show you the modules that are either fitted or stored in it too. Won't allow you to search for items but sure lets you check the contents of a ship from a distance.
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War Games
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at.
If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me.
(sarcasm) You heard the man... Queries are simply too much of a drain on system performance... (/sarcasm)
Yeah, I gotta be honest... I got nothing. This is typical CCP shinnanigans. A query that doesn't look in cans versus all hangars... come on. (what is that one / two lines of code)
BTW... gonna start looking at those player created tools a little more closely later tonight. What Gaming Dev's really think of you! |
Krxon Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:47:00 -
[19]
I think that "No, because of extra database stress" shouldn't be excuse for not implementing this useful options into game:
- ability to remotely see whats in our cans - same goes to our ship fittings
Removing (or not adding) game features in order to ease database looks like attempt to support as many players as possible, at any cost.
There is also a lot of other things which could add to game visual diversity, such as:
- visible damage on ships - custom ship colors - displaying corp logo on our ships - visual representation of installed modules, not just guns - ability to stick three wings and paint my ceptor in bright red - etc
But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships. -- EVE offline game |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 08/04/2008 22:36:43
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
I certainly do not understand the ins-and-outs of the EVE database but on the face of it why would this be a performance issue? If I had all my stuff just on a hangar floor it'd show fine. The database has a list of all my stuff...whether it is in cans or not...and knows where that stuff is. Seems a listing of the items is simple enough and there is no need to list the items as being in a can. Just give a laundry list of all Item-X owned by me and what station it is at.
If you say it cannot be done for performance issues I have to accept that but it still does not make sense to me.
My guess:
Items in containers are stored in the database as a different category as items in hangars, possibly with a different ID or maybe just a different variable. The database tables are continually optimized, but only to retrieve data based on items in hangars. The query to retrieve items inside containers would be more intense because eithera: 1. The item table is optimized purely for hangar access and you would see much longer access times 2. Items in containers reference a specific "containers" table that isn't optimized
If the assets window is populated by querying all of the relevant hangars and then caching it, doing a crapload of SQL queries on the un-optimized table could take a while. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
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Cosmar
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:15:00 -
[21]
I can understand why the search wouldn't work.
But can you make it so that i can at least look at a station container from a distance ? I wanted to sort my stuff but when i realised if i did it makes it harder to find items then i gave up.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tarminic If the assets window is populated by querying all of the relevant hangars and then caching it, doing a crapload of SQL queries on the un-optimized table could take a while.
Yeah, chances are good they'd have to massively change their queries to deal with containers which are assembled, secure or not secure, password entered?, then grabbing the contents. It's not impossible obviously, but depending on how queries are tuned it can be a monstrous hit per search.
Multiply that by potentially 30k people doing it at at the same time, and the database team will NEVER get a chance to go drinking.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Krxon Blade But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships.
CCP are doing everything they can to let things run smoothly and still a lot of players experience (and complain about) lag. You're suggesting that CCP should add more and more features to the game which are not only absolutely crap but will also increase both server-side and client-side lag?!?
Skills Explained |
Tchell Dahhn
Amarr Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: War Games This is typical CCP shinnanigans. A query that doesn't look in cans versus all hangars... come on. (what is that one / two lines of code)
...and...
Originally by: Krxon Blade I think that "No, because of extra database stress" shouldn't be excuse for not implementing this useful options into game...
...snip...
But no. Easing database load is too important and we will continue to fly dull identical shiny ships.
So, wait. You both are more interested in adding further lag into the game? A Dev comes in and tells you why it can't be done - and you say, "we don't care" and continue?
Thanks.
Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen You can get info on what's fitted in a ship/stored in a ship in Eve without having to use an external program.
Create an Item Exchange contract for the ship you want info on and before you finalize it, it will show you the modules that are either fitted or stored in it too. Won't allow you to search for items but sure lets you check the contents of a ship from a distance.
THIS..
..works with cans too and has done for the last 14 months.
Bandures > Tommy, you like a cowboy harry ) |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:30:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Andrue on 09/04/2008 13:34:36 It's not at all hard to see that there is a performance issue with extending the assets search. SQL databases are not hierarchical so the usual way to represent a container is to give its children a parent ID.
You can probably find all the items by querying on the owner but in order to be useful you need to be able to group by container.
My guess is that the assets algorithm could currently be:
items=Get_all_items_owned_by(<character ID>);
Foreach( item in items) { itemLocation=itemLocations.GetLocation(item.LocationID);
if(null==itemLocation) { itemLocations.Add(new ItemLocation(item.LocationID)); itemLocation=itemLocations.Last; }
itemLocation.Add(item); }
If you want to further group by container you'd have to change the last Add() logic:
if(item.ContainerID is HanagerID) { itemLocation.Add(item); } else { container=item.Location.FindContainer(item.ContainerID);
if(null==container) { container=item.location.AddContainer(item.ContainerID); }
container.Add(item); }
That's more than one or two line of code.
Ordinarily I wouldn't expect a huge performance issue from code like that as long as the containers were indexed or hashed it should be fine. However the Eve client seems to suffer from generally poor performance so I'm prepared to accept the dev's explanation.
One easy answer is that containers tend to have a lot of items in them so by ignoring contents you can probably vastly reduce the amount of data returned by the query. It depends how many players organise their stuff into containers to keep hangar floors tidy.
In my case a query for 'objects outside containers' would probably return a tenth the amount of data that 'all objects owned' would. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
Couldn't it be possible to implement Querying the API in the Eve client?
Did the left hand lose the right hand's phone number?
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Cor Aidan
KNIGHT'S OF THE ROUND ROOM
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, not going to happen in the game client for performance reasons. Instead try some of the community created tools that have been developed using the EVE API.
I'm confused as how using the EVE API (which must access the database to be useful) is acceptable where the EvE client itself accessing the database is not.
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Trojanman190
The Conflagration New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:19:00 -
[29]
Guess what else it does not do... show fittings on ships. That needs to be taken care of as well.
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Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.04.09 16:45:00 -
[30]
I've downloaded and run Meep and it's done the business.
I'd never have found that plug-in (augmentation) I was looking for, as it was in the hold of a shuttle of an alt I'd used it to transport from Jita.
Also I've found a BPO for a Small Tractor Beam that I'd lost about a month after they were released.
I'd mentally been cursing CCP for "losing" this during a patch during a database clean up!
However it was once again given by me to one of my alts for a factory or ME job, and as far as I can tell it's still sitting there waiting to be picked up. A couple of years later!
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