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Removable implants and money sinks - a possible solution.

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Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.22 06:24:00 - [91] /bump Flame on. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Shakuul Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:06:00 - [92] Or they could just change the cooldown on jump clones to 6 hours or something. Even if they don't...if you do pvp mostly on weekends, you have to JC in and out a couple times, so you lose maybe 4 hours of skill training. Boo hoo. JC not in the ideal location? Thats why you can have 5! The idea with destroyable implants is that it adds to the risk of combat...its a way you pay for the extra reward - being able to train SP faster. Through JCs, you can choose whether or not to accept this tradeoff. If you want the SP more, fly with your implants. Otherwise, use your damn JC. I wasn't aware that implants were a major money sink. I mean sure you drop a good chunk of ISK on them at the LP store, but i thought BPs, station eggs, POS structures, and that kind of thing were much bigger.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 15:29:00 - [93] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 23/05/2008 15:29:46 So... people who want to Pvp must pay not only in terms of implants, modules and ships, but also in terms of opportunity cost in loosing out on skill training time and having to keep jumping from one clone to another? Anyway this has all become somewhat of a moot issue with Factional Warfare..something that will turn EVE from Sandbox into theme park. People can finally take a whack at each other without having to run around half the galaxy looking for a fight and having to use JCs that generally are never there where you need em or worse are on cool down, and with the rewards for constantly Pvping in FW, they will be laughing off implants the same way you will now laugh off T1 frigate losses. FW will basically kill Alliance / Pirate / 0.0 Combat I think, because people wil find it far more convenient to stay in high sec and fight it out in the complexes. We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.23 16:19:00 - [94] Edited by: Destructor1792 on 23/05/2008 16:20:10 Ok, i like the idea of SIA's, but lets expand on it a bit: Skills DNA mutators - Allows the ability to extract an SIA from a corpse (+1 implant retrieval per lvl) This allows a maximum chance of retrieving 5 implants from an SIA @ lvl 5. Amarr mutator - Grants the ability to use DNA mutators on amarrians (5% increase in chance of success per lvl) Caldari mutator - see above Gallente mutator - see above Minmatar mutator - see above Mutator Vat - Allow the use of a Mutator Vat for extracting dna (+1 addition job per lvl & 1.2hr job time reduction)(standard time of 12hrs so reducing this to 6hrs & a max of 5 jobs with lvl 5) Modules Mutator Vat - One time use for extraction of implants from SIA's (requires mutator vat lvl 1, DNA mutators lvl 1) Example: You pod an amarr dude, scoop their corpse and head back to a station. You have the following trained up: DNA mutators lvl3 (chance to retrieve up to 3 implants) Amarr mutator lvl 4 (20% chance of actually getting a result) Mutator vat lvl 1 (one job going with 10% time reduction) so you get your mutator vat and the corpse, plug them into an invention job & wait for 10.8hrs. End of the job, you get a success: 1 x new SIA (DNA rewritten to you) 1 x snake alpha (plugged in) 2 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted So you now have a new SIA with 1 implant plugged in & 9 free slots to do with as you please. A failed job could look something like: 3 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted Unfortunately, you were unable to extract anything of use. Again, each job is tied to you so no chance of flogging SIA's off for a quick buck & this actually stop corpses from being the useless bio-mass they currently are. Time to go hunt some headaches tabs out.. drinking and flying are such fun but damn with the hangovers after ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.05.23 17:22:00 - [95] Simpler still, make implants manufactorable like it was intended, there's even a skill in the game for it. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 18:56:00 - [96] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Simpler still, make implants manufactorable like it was intended, there's even a skill in the game for it. If they did, then atleast it would make things completive and remove the caps...but will CCP do it? Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Redd Lenses Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. All the factional warfare stuff is in lowsec and in ships that really take advantage of pirate implants aren't allowed in. Besides that however, I still want these SIAs.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:49:00 - [98] Originally by: Destructor1792 Edited by: Destructor1792 on 23/05/2008 16:20:10 Ok, i like the idea of SIA's, but lets expand on it a bit: Skills DNA mutators - Allows the ability to extract an SIA from a corpse (+1 implant retrieval per lvl) This allows a maximum chance of retrieving 5 implants from an SIA @ lvl 5. Amarr mutator - Grants the ability to use DNA mutators on amarrians (5% increase in chance of success per lvl) Caldari mutator - see above Gallente mutator - see above Minmatar mutator - see above Mutator Vat - Allow the use of a Mutator Vat for extracting dna (+1 addition job per lvl & 1.2hr job time reduction)(standard time of 12hrs so reducing this to 6hrs & a max of 5 jobs with lvl 5) Modules Mutator Vat - One time use for extraction of implants from SIA's (requires mutator vat lvl 1, DNA mutators lvl 1) Example: You pod an amarr dude, scoop their corpse and head back to a station. You have the following trained up: DNA mutators lvl3 (chance to retrieve up to 3 implants) Amarr mutator lvl 4 (20% chance of actually getting a result) Mutator vat lvl 1 (one job going with 10% time reduction) so you get your mutator vat and the corpse, plug them into an invention job & wait for 10.8hrs. End of the job, you get a success: 1 x new SIA (DNA rewritten to you) 1 x snake alpha (plugged in) 2 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted So you now have a new SIA with 1 implant plugged in & 9 free slots to do with as you please. A failed job could look something like: 3 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted Unfortunately, you were unable to extract anything of use. Again, each job is tied to you so no chance of flogging SIA's off for a quick buck & this actually stop corpses from being the useless bio-mass they currently are. Time to go hunt some headaches tabs out.. drinking and flying are such fun but damn with the hangovers after I missed this. It sounds interesting, but since you now have the ability to extract the implants, the money sinks will get reduced, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA somewhat. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:49:00 - [99] Originally by: Redd Lenses Originally by: Raven Timoshenko We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. All the factional warfare stuff is in lowsec and in ships that really take advantage of pirate implants aren't allowed in. Besides that however, I still want these SIAs. Nice to see you back Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Redd Lenses Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:09:00 - [100] OK, just read through pages 2-4... What people don't seem to understand is that this boosts implant sales, creates an ISK sink, frees people to PVP more and still lets people get SP. a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? The *only* way this hurts sales is that it reduces losses of +5s. Pirate implants and +4s and below will still be lost during PVP. The only difference now is that you're losing implants that affect your current ship. How horrible is it to be fighting using snakes in a Blasterthron or Abaddon? Or having Slaves in an inty? b) The ISK sink. (Not killing implant sales) The SIAs would be an NPC item just like the implants. You could get them from LP stores or buy them from players but the better implants they can hold, the more they cost. As I said before, I don't think it's much of a sacrifice to pay 200m or so to have a meta 6 SIA that holds pirate implants or +5s on top of the cost of the implants. c) More PVP Because people now have the implants that help in their current situation, they're more likely to undock and go after situations they never would while... I don't know... flying with +5s in a battleship into 0.0. Then at the end of the day, you wait 30 minutes and swap back into +5s so you continue getting as many SP as possible. Even if CCP removes attribute implants to preserve SP (IE give everyone +5 for implants and +10 for learning skills permanently) I still like this idea for holding Hardwirings. This idea, while adding some management of implants, increases the fun of the game.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.24 09:54:00 - [101] /bump Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:52:00 - [102] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Destructor1792 what i said I missed this. It sounds interesting, but since you now have the ability to extract the implants, the money sinks will get reduced, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA somewhat. You could easily make this into an isk sink by having the mutator vats cost anywhere from 50-500mill each. Prehaps even have different sized ones (e.g): Basic mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +2 implants) - 50mill Standard mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +3 implants) - 150mill Improved mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +4 implants) - 250mill Advanced mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +5 implants) - 350mill Faction mutator vat (ability to retrieve faction implants & t2 varients) - 500mill to be able to attempt to extract an SIA from a corpse, you must also have a fresh one to run with the job, so it could look something like: Job 1: faction mutator vat - 500mill SIA - 150mill cost of job - 5mill you may get lucky and get a new SIA with a couple of snakes plugged in, however you've just spent just shy of 700mill isk. Not a bad isk sink eh ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.25 11:39:00 - [103] Again, not against it, so long as its chance based so, at best you are getting a SIA and some attached implants at a discount at best, nor will they be able to know what implants they are getting until they process the biomass. It will be more of a gamble then, for example spending 500million ISK only to find out that the SIA and implants combined arent worth even half as much. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.25 19:04:00 - [104] Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.25 20:01:00 - [105] Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a syou think it does, gievn that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONTpvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.25 22:09:00 - [106] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/05/2008 22:14:31 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a you think it does, given that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONT pvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. I did read it.... Using one bad game mechanic (jump clones) to justify bring in another much worse one doesn't work that well.... Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.31 06:41:00 - [107] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/05/2008 22:14:31 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a you think it does, given that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONT pvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. I did read it.... Using one bad game mechanic (jump clones) to justify bring in another much worse one doesn't work that well.... Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages 2 points here: 1. currently there is little to no risk in getting a majority of implants. grind a few missions, get a few LP's, purchase an implant, rinse & repeat. (this ideally need discussing in a sepearate thread so i'll not say anymore) 2. Jumpclones were a much needed introduction to the game. More so if the supercaps actually had the clone-vat bays fitted & enough space to hold ships (+spares) for each pod pilot. I sort of agree & disagree with them but again, this needs discussion in another thread with ways to improve/change it. maybe a dev response here would be in order.. would be nice to know what they think of this idea & whether to keep the post alive or let it die a quiet death Peace out ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.31 11:38:00 - [108] I for one plan on keeping it alive until I get a response. If the Devs say no, then shrug so be it. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.02 02:39:00 - [109] /bump *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
GermanNightHawk	Posted - 2008.06.02 18:50:00 - [110] I am all in for that! No time to way! Best idea since long time if ever read.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.05 02:53:00 - [111] /bump *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Tuttomenui II kungfuhammers	Posted - 2008.06.05 11:44:00 - [112] Great Idea, Add me to your little list, and let it hence forth grow to tremendous size that can not be ignored, lol... Tuttomenui II
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2008.06.05 12:43:00 - [113] Originally by: Kerfira Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages How about actually providing some compelling arguments instead of expecting us to take your word for it? I for one so far see this as increasing ISK sinks not decreasing them, having done a little analysis. Others have gone more in-depth into it in other posts. If you have a genuine reason why it won't work, say so. Otherwise the above just looks like a troll. Why for example is reducing skill training disadvantages a problem? What does it break in the game? How does it affect PvP, the prime motivating factor here? What risk does it remove? Any idiot with +5 implants isn't going to undock in a war situation with them in; either that or have the cash to replace them easily, fly what you can afford to lose etc. So far you've not backed up your claim with any real arguments. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.05 18:13:00 - [114] Thanks for keeping this alive guys *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.05 18:31:00 - [115] Edited by: Esmenet on 05/06/2008 18:31:58 Bad idea. Its just another jumpclone with 30 min cooldown that will reduce risk further. Would be great for me living in 0.0 as i would never risk my implants in combat and could keep my +5 in most of the time. But overall a bad idea for the game. In high sec/low sec you are practically immune to loosing implants if you know what you are doing anyway so no change for those too "afraid" too loose their implants. Quote: a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? It might give a small increase in short term but for long term it will hurt implant sales massively as it will be much more rare to actually get them blown up. The pirate implant sales would probably stay the same as you need to risk those anyway to get any use out of them. Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE?
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:33:00 - [116] Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 05/06/2008 18:31:58 Bad idea. Its just another jumpclone with 30 min cooldown that will reduce risk further. Would be great for me living in 0.0 as i would never risk my implants in combat and could keep my +5 in most of the time. But overall a bad idea for the game. In high sec/low sec you are practically immune to loosing implants if you know what you are doing anyway so no change for those too "afraid" too loose their implants. Quote: a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? It might give a small increase in short term but for long term it will hurt implant sales massively as it will be much more rare to actually get them blown up. The pirate implant sales would probably stay the same as you need to risk those anyway to get any use out of them. Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE? You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? And if you living in 0.0 without your p+5 plugged in your at RISK ANYWAY. You can still loose your plugged in implants, the SIAs dont make you invulnerable. You then go on to say that who would use snakes to PvE anyway? So essentially YOU would not be wearing +5 implants in 0.0, but combat hardwiring. Pirate implanst WONT stay the same - if I have 5 JCs, and wont to be as effective with each of them, they would be scattered all across EVE rather than being clumped in one region and EACH of them would have Multiple SIAs stationed there - Learning, Snakes, Slaves whatever. So even assuming that you only use three kinds of implants sets and have five JC that means you will be buying 5x3 = 15 implant sets NOT including the SIA itself. Thats an EXPONENTIALLY larger money sink as compared today, where most people use an empty JC if they want to pvp. And as you said - who would want to pvp in +5 Implants? Surely then the best way to get more people Pvping is to give them more flexibility. Your statement abuot not loosing implants in low sec high sec - we want more people to come into 0.0 and risk thier ships - even a hardened Pvper would think twice about heading into combat with LEARNING implants in and no jump clone availble. By giving people more flexibility we INCREASE the opportunities to PvP and consequently increase the money sink in terms of ships, modules AND implants lost - mainly combat implants in this case. Since All implants are NPC made and sold anyway, people who mission grind to sell implants on the market will just now mainly grind for combat rather than learning implants. And since with the SIA most pvpers would want to have multiple sets, MArket demand for combat hardwiring GOES UP. Beyond this ALL implants are NPC regulated items, so it does not MATTER WHICH kind of set is being put on the market anyway - they are all more or less the same in value. *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:08:00 - [117] Edited by: Esmenet on 06/06/2008 09:14:58 Edited by: Esmenet on 06/06/2008 09:08:01 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? Yes it would be great as i could avoid risking my implants for fights. But stupid for the game. I would also be great if i could blow up titans with one shot of my gun but its not really a good idea for the game either. Understand? Quote: You can still loose your plugged in implants, the SIAs dont make you invulnerable. You then go on to say that who would use snakes to PvE anyway? So essentially YOU would not be wearing +5 implants in 0.0, but combat hardwiring. I cant afford snakes so they are out of the question for me. My +5 implants however would be invulnerable with that system. But for those rich guys with snakes nothing will change its just even easier for them to get maximum learning skill while still having the great combat advantage easily available at a very short notice. Perhaps you dont realise this but snakes are not +5 for a reason. Quote: Pirate implanst WONT stay the same - if I have 5 JCs, and wont to be as effective with each of them, they would be scattered all across EVE rather than being clumped in one region and EACH of them would have Multiple SIAs stationed there - Learning, Snakes, Slaves whatever. So even assuming that you only use three kinds of implants sets and have five JC that means you will be buying 5x3 = 15 implant sets NOT including the SIA itself. Lol you will never end up with 5 jumpclones with 3 different implantsets. And even if you did its just a shortterm increase in demand. What keeps the market running is getting those implants blown up. Quote: Thats an EXPONENTIALLY larger money sink as compared today, where most people use an empty JC if they want to pvp. Lol with a 24 hour cooldown you cant control that for long and so you either choose to stay in a empty clone most of the time with severe penalties on your learning or use whatever level of implants you can afford to keep going. Quote: And as you said - who would want to pvp in +5 Implants? Surely then the best way to get more people Pvping is to give them more flexibility. I have pvp'ed a lot in +5's. My empire pod is practically invulnerable anyway. There should be a limit to flexibility as it eliminates risk, eliminates the disadvantages of pirate implants and eliminates the disadvantages of jumpclones. In short there is a reason why jumpclones have a 24 hr cooldown. Quote: Your statement abuot not loosing implants in low sec high sec - we want more people to come into 0.0 and risk thier ships Your op states it would encourage people to try low sec pvp. Quote: By giving people more flexibility we INCREASE the opportunities to PvP and consequently increase the money sink in terms of ships, modules AND implants lost - mainly combat implants in this case. No you dont. If they cant risk +4 imps they wont risk a snake set. Quote: Since All implants are NPC made and sold anyway, people who mission grind to sell implants on the market will just now mainly grind for combat rather than learning implants. And since with the SIA most pvpers would want to have multiple sets, MArket demand for combat hardwiring GOES UP. Lol if they cant risk their +4-+5's why would they risk more expensive snakes and hardwirings.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:09:00 - [118] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:10:42 Originally by: Esmenet You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? Yes it would be great as i could avoid risking my implants for fights. But stupid for the game. I would also be great if i could blow up titans with one shot of my gun but its not really a good idea for the game either. Understand? Your argument is first specious. Pvpers if they want to fight fight with combat implants if they can help it ANYWAY, and those that risk going into combat with the relevant implants are probably going to win against that go into combat without the relevant implants. This is no magical "I win" button. Originally by: Esmenet I cant afford snakes so they are out of the question for me. My +5 implants however would be invulnerable with that system. But for those rich guys with snakes nothing will change its just even easier for them to get maximum learning skill while still having the great combat advantage easily available at a very short notice. Perhaps you dont realise this but snakes are not +5 for a reason. Firstly those guys with learning implants either fight, get into a JC with combat implants, get into an empty JC or dont fight at all. This system removes the last disincentive from NO fighting. I know many pilots who say that if they have a choice between fighting with learning implants and NOT going into fights with the relevant implants they would rather wait out the JC timer. This REMOVES this issue, it measn more people Pvping then. And incidentally, why should a player be penalized for Pvping in terms of training? Pilots who participate in the most dangerous activity in EVE loose out on traiing time when the jump into combat implants?? WHY? I am putting my ships, modules and combat implants on the line and for this I must loose somewhere in the region of 24hrs worth of +5/4/3/2/1 training time? having just riske my ships, module and combat implants, i must wait 24hrs to jump back into a JC with learning implants, which is probably located in a place which would deter me from getting into combat for the NEXT 24hrs. What sense does this make? Originally by: Esmenet Lol you will never end up with 5 jumpclones with 3 different implantsets. And even if you did its just a shortterm increase in demand. What keeps the market running is getting those implants blown up. Again this makes no sense. People jump into an EMPTY JC anyway if they cant afford combat implants, or make a choice between fighting and not fighting. People who fight may loose thier combat implants MORE with this. All the current JC system does gives people disincentives from fighting, especially if they have learning implants. MORE fighting = MORE Implants lost. Except this time it will be those uber expensive combat implants. as YOU yourself said, why would anyone fight in +5s? *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:12:00 - [119] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:13:46 Originally by: Esmenet Lol with a 24 hour cooldown you cant control that for long and so you either choose to stay in a empty clone most of the time with severe penalties on your learning or use whatever level of implants you can afford to keep going. So..you agree with me??? Originally by: Esmenet I have pvp'ed a lot in +5's. My empire pod is practically invulnerable anyway. There should be a limit to flexibility as it eliminates risk, eliminates the disadvantages of pirate implants and eliminates the disadvantages of jumpclones. In short there is a reason why jumpclones have a 24 hr cooldown. 1) There are people who given a choice would rather pvp in combat implants or empty JCs. 2) YOu still have to risk your implants, only this time it will be your combat implants rather than your learning implants. - The difference in cost being the same. 3) Eliminating the disdvantage of the JCs is a GOOD thing, means more people would Pvp. Originally by: Esmenet Your op states it would encourage people to try low sec pvp. I meant low sec in general, not just 0.0. Originally by: Esmenet No you dont. If they cant risk +4 imps they wont risk a snake set. Yes, but they would risk a combat set, since thats what they are for ANYWAY. Who cares if they stop risking learning implants? Just means more combat implants will be blown up rather than learning implants. As you yourself why buy combat implants if you dont plan on using them for Pvp? Implants are NPC manufactured items anyway, so all your doing is shifting the emphasis from learning to combat implants. Originally by: Esmenet Lol if they cant risk their +4-+5's why would they risk more expensive snakes and hardwirings. Totally contradicts your previous post and again- Originally by: Esmenet Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE? Why buy COMBAT implants NOW if you dont plan on using em?? *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.07 14:37:00 - [120] /bump. Let the hostilities continue. *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*

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