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Removable implants and money sinks - a possible solution.

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Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.11 03:04:00 - [1] As it stands now one of the major factors for people not getting into pvp and low sec is because of the expensive implants, Jump clones dont cut it - for one thing the 24 hrs cool down added with the fact a JC is never in the ideal location for you to quickly join a fleet and go pvp makes this system impractical. Now I understand why CCP would not want to make implants removable, they constitute a major money sink in the economy and this allows them to keep market in balance. My solution is as follows: 1) A new device can be purchased from NPC Corps called a Synaptic Interface Array (SIA) 2) The SIA functions as a bridge between the pilot and his implants. 3) Once the device is plugged in for the first time, it becomes "bonded" to that particular pilot forever. NO ONE other than him can use it. 4) Implants plug into the SIA. Once an implant is plugged into the SIA, it CANNOT be unplugged. 5)Now as the implants are permanently fixed to the SIA, the SIA itself can be unplugged form the pilot, the pilot is now free to go do whatever leaving the SIA and its bonded implants behind, or even removing one SIA containing learning implants and putting on another SIA with combat implants. IN this was EVE wins in 2 ways, pilots can now go pvp while CCP maintains and infact INCREASES the money sink. How so? Well consider the following: 1) The purchase of the SIA itself. This is an NPC regulated item. New pilots get a free SIA, but after that the pilot has to pay for a new one every time he gets podded while wearing the SIA, or if he wishes to start a whole new array of specialized or upgraded implants. 2) The SIA is bonded to the pilot, no one else can use it and its associated implants. hence it cannot be resold on the market. 3) The implants are bonded to the SIA and cannot be removed. So if you have a number of +1 implants and suddenly get a +3, you might want to buy a new SIA and start a new set. else if you plug in the +3 to the +1 set, you basically loose out. Hence the need to buy a new SIA once again comes into the picture. In each case other than actually buying the implants, a money sink is made. While the pilots can unplug the SIA, the implants cannot be unplugged in turn from the SIA. they are therefore considered "consumed" and hence the market demand for implants are maintained. Remember that implants cannot be unplugged from the SIA so that slot cannot be REUSED by another implant of the same number. Once plugged into the SIA, thats it. Your only optio is to buy a new SIA and start a new set. The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.11 03:04:00 - [2] As it stands now one of the major factors for people not getting into pvp and low sec is because of the expensive implants, Jump clones dont cut it - for one thing the 24 hrs cool down added with the fact a JC is never in the ideal location for you to quickly join a fleet and go pvp makes this system impractical. Now I understand why CCP would not want to make implants removable, they constitute a major money sink in the economy and this allows them to keep market in balance. My solution is as follows: 1) A new device can be purchased from NPC Corps called a Synaptic Interface Array (SIA) 2) The SIA functions as a bridge between the pilot and his implants. 3) Once the device is plugged in for the first time, it becomes "bonded" to that particular pilot forever. NO ONE other than him can use it. 4) Implants plug into the SIA. Once an implant is plugged into the SIA, it CANNOT be unplugged. 5)Now as the implants are permanently fixed to the SIA, the SIA itself can be unplugged form the pilot, the pilot is now free to go do whatever leaving the SIA and its bonded implants behind, or even removing one SIA containing learning implants and putting on another SIA with combat implants. IN this was EVE wins in 2 ways, pilots can now go pvp while CCP maintains and infact INCREASES the money sink. How so? Well consider the following: 1) The purchase of the SIA itself. This is an NPC regulated item. New pilots get a free SIA, but after that the pilot has to pay for a new one every time he gets podded while wearing the SIA, or if he wishes to start a whole new array of specialized or upgraded implants. 2) The SIA is bonded to the pilot, no one else can use it and its associated implants. hence it cannot be resold on the market. 3) The implants are bonded to the SIA and cannot be removed. So if you have a number of +1 implants and suddenly get a +3, you might want to buy a new SIA and start a new set. else if you plug in the +3 to the +1 set, you basically loose out. Hence the need to buy a new SIA once again comes into the picture. In each case other than actually buying the implants, a money sink is made. While the pilots can unplug the SIA, the implants cannot be unplugged in turn from the SIA. they are therefore considered "consumed" and hence the market demand for implants are maintained. Remember that implants cannot be unplugged from the SIA so that slot cannot be REUSED by another implant of the same number. Once plugged into the SIA, thats it. Your only optio is to buy a new SIA and start a new set.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.11 16:55:00 - [3] What? No comment? Why? what happened? Was atleast expecting a minor flame war. I feel so alone. The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology
Kusha'an Gallente Equinox Industrial Co.	Posted - 2008.04.11 17:39:00 - [4] This is a nifty idea. They'll never do it because it's a good idea and they didn't think of it. Originally by: welsh wizard stupid falcon pilots uncloak all the time coz they think they need to surface for air.
Kiki Arnolds Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.11 17:52:00 - [5] Just because you cannot resell and implant once installed does not mean the market demand is maintianed. The largest source of demand is not pilots getting implants for the first time, but instead, pilots replacing LOST implants. If you could leave your implants at the station, there will be FAR fewer implants being lost, and in turn, implant prices will plummet, especially the mid grade learning implants... why get a +3 when you can get a +5 that will never leave station and never risk loss, without that pesky 24hour jumpclone timer... The only way this could work is if you payed a high price every time you took out the implants, and it would need to be alot, maybe 20M... This also seems to favor carebears, as they get to protect thier learning implants AND combat implants when they go pvping... a pvper can't protect thier combat implants at all, as there would be no reason to have them if you don't bring them pvping... ç¦
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2008.04.11 18:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Kiki Arnolds Just because you cannot resell and implant once installed does not mean the market demand is maintianed. The largest source of demand is not pilots getting implants for the first time, but instead, pilots replacing LOST implants. If you could leave your implants at the station, there will be FAR fewer implants being lost, and in turn, implant prices will plummet, especially the mid grade learning implants... why get a +3 when you can get a +5 that will never leave station and never risk loss, without that pesky 24hour jumpclone timer... The only way this could work is if you payed a high price every time you took out the implants, and it would need to be alot, maybe 20M... This also seems to favor carebears, as they get to protect thier learning implants AND combat implants when they go pvping... a pvper can't protect thier combat implants at all, as there would be no reason to have them if you don't bring them pvping... Solution - put a 48 hour timer on the removal / installation process. Eg: You can remove a set with a 24 hour timer after that is up you can put in a set with another 24 hour timer before it can be removed. or something along those lines balance the time out to fit the game. Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights. [url="http://myeve.eve-online.co
Redd Lenses Gallente mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.11 20:41:00 - [7] Edited by: Redd Lenses on 11/04/2008 20:45:48 Originally by: xOm3gAx Originally by: Kiki Arnolds Stuff Solution - put a 48 hour timer on the removal / installation process. Eg: You can remove a set with a 24 hour timer after that is up you can put in a set with another 24 hour timer before it can be removed. or something along those lines balance the time out to fit the game. That's exactly what he's trying to get rid of. I currently have a slave set, snake set, and +5 set in jump clones all in the same system but have to wait 24hrs each time I jump. I love the op's proposal because I could fit for the engagement at hand. If I'm flying my Sabre, I could pop in the snakes and zoom around, if there's a battleship fleet, I could pop in my slaves. The only thing this does is allow people to choose what implants they want to have in to fit the occasion. If they get podded, they still lose the implants and now the SIA as well. In addition, you could also have different grades of SIAs that would handle different meta-levels of implants. Perhaps meta 1 would handle only +1s and +2s and the 1% enhancers and a meta 6 would be required for the high-grade faction implants. Meta 1 could cost 5m and Meta 6 could cost 200m. I'd pay. The only way this hurts the implant ISK sink is that when going on 0.0 ops in non-pirate implants (snakes), you could easily swap out for some +2s or +3s and not lose the +4s or +5s to a bubble that you can't avoid that you would lose at the moment because of the inconvenience of jump clones. Edit: This might actually increase the sale of implants (I'd be buying more) because if we had jump clones to use as they were intended we could have multiple SIAs at each jump location.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Kiki Arnolds Just because you cannot resell and implant once installed does not mean the market demand is maintianed. The largest source of demand is not pilots getting implants for the first time, but instead, pilots replacing LOST implants. If you could leave your implants at the station, there will be FAR fewer implants being lost, and in turn, implant prices will plummet, especially the mid grade learning implants... why get a +3 when you can get a +5 that will never leave station and never risk loss, without that pesky 24hour jumpclone timer... Considering that you cannot unplug an implant from the SIA , i.e the slot is considered "expended" the pilot will have to make a choice about whether to start a whole new SIA set or include the higher grade implant on a lower grade set. Again, this means time and money in terms of SIA cost and cost for a new set. So to a certain extent the loss of fewer implants is offset by the need to buy new SIAs everytime you need to start a new set. Originally by: Red Lensses In addition, you could also have different grades of SIAs that would handle different meta-levels of implants. Perhaps meta 1 would handle only +1s and +2s and the 1% enhancers and a meta 6 would be required for the high-grade faction implants. Meta 1 could cost 5m and Meta 6 could cost 200m. I'd pay. This is a good idea as it would offset Kiki's issues about the reduction in implant demand. You would have to much more for better SIAs and this would offset the per implant money sink reduction. Originally by: Kiki Arnolds This also seems to favor carebears, as they get to protect thier learning implants AND combat implants when they go pvping... a pvper can't protect thier combat implants at all, as there would be no reason to have them if you don't bring them pvping... How does this favour carebears if pilots now have more incentives to PvP? A carebear by definition is someone who sticks around in high sec and does not PvP. AND a carebear who has a combat implant will find little use for it if all he does is leave it in a station all the time, unless you consider missioning. Since implants can give a decisive edge in combat someone who does not use combat implants in PvP is likely to loose a whole lot of ships as compared to someone who does. Originally by: Red Lenses The only way this hurts the implant ISK sink is that when going on 0.0 ops in non-pirate implants (snakes), you could easily swap out for some +2s or +3s and not lose the +4s or +5s to a bubble that you can't avoid that you would lose at the moment because of the inconvenience of jump clones. Yes but also that people will loose multiple sets if they are relocating from one area to another, loosing a minor set means more incentive to buy a new set if need be as you have pointed out. The whole point is to maintain the market set as much as possible while making it more practical and inviting for people to pvp. CONSIDER: More PvP means MORE Loss of ships and modules means A MUCH larger Ship and module money sink offsetting a possibly reduced Implant Money Sink, it at the end of the day balances out. The JC system is too much of a bother because JCs are never where you want them at the time for PvP, worse the 24hr cooldown further invalidates its usefulness. How many times have you wanted to PvP only to realize that the closest JC is like 20 regions away through low sec, doesn't have a decent pvp ship located there, and needs 2 more hours before you can use it anyway. So you have to either risk loosing your learning implants - or not participate, especially if you have been Pvping and have lost ships and must spend the time grinding for ISK. A loss of implants at this point would be a major financial loss, but the loss of only ship wouldnt be, so in overall terms the SHIP money sink would increase even if the IMPLANT money sink somewhat decreases. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:51:00 - [9] Incidentally also consider that implant demand may actually now INCREASE because now pilots will not only wish to buy sets of implants they would never consider before, but also multiple sets of implants for EACH of their JCs located at various areas of EVE. Again demand goes up, because it would be much safer and more convenient to buy each of your JCS multiple sets rather than hauling your SIA sets down, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA anyway. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.12 12:23:00 - [10] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357

Zartach Tzarszh Minmatar The Royal Engineers	Posted - 2008.04.12 14:07:00 - [11] Its a good idea, but there is allready room for five implant sets with the jumpclone system. Saving implants can be done by not dropping in all diffrent sets in your clones and save one for cheap pvp implants. This is actually one of the few things that enforces people to make a choice, either the high grade so so or the high grade that, allowing people to just switch implant sets will allow them to always be 100% effective without any drawback other than the isk grind purchasing them.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.12 15:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh Its a good idea, but there is allready room for five implant sets with the jumpclone system. Saving implants can be done by not dropping in all diffrent sets in your clones and save one for cheap pvp implants. I think you missed the point partially. Imagine having one JC stationed in Verge Vendor, one in Molden heath, one in Great Wildlands. Now under the current system (leaving aside the 24hr cooldown issues for the moment) you would probably fit one JC with learning implants, one with Snake implants and one with Slave implants. Under the SIA system you can now station three JCs in three different regions, and each would have access to all three sets. This would mean that the demand for implants would remain high since people would want to maximize their potential with all three clones. And whats wrong with being 100% effective if you are going into combat? surely that in itself is an incentive to go into combat, which is the whole point at the end, without reducing the money sink. How many times have people chosen not to head into a major fleet op mainly because they are either too far away from the JC with the optimal implants, too concerned that they would loose their current sets and would have to grind even more, so on and so forth. The SIA would make people take MORE risks, by limiting the risks of loosing implants while INCREASING the risk of loosing their ships by venturing into combat.The grind for ISK and the risk involved is transferred from loosing implants to loosing ships, hence increasing the opportunities to PvP. Quote: This is actually one of the few things that enforces people to make a choice, either the high grade so so or the high grade that, allowing people to just switch implant sets will allow them to always be 100% effective without any drawback other than the isk grind purchasing them. And remember you can still loose implants in combat, just now you will be loosing implants relevant to the situation, as WILL your opponents. It will not be just YOU heading into combat at 100% effectiveness, so will your opponents, which if you think about it would mean more interesting battles and less bitterness in terms of I loosing your learning implants to a guy in combat implants. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
Suoh Amshar Amarr Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.12 17:27:00 - [13] hmm...honestly all the problems that i can see with this have been covered. /signed
Zartach Tzarszh Minmatar The Royal Engineers	Posted - 2008.04.12 22:30:00 - [14] I did not miss the point, because your argument that follows is exactly the one i was saying would be bad. At the moment you can't have access to _every_ high grade set in _every_ region on space by just jumping around. You will have to make a choice. Its hard, and not always the most convenient way but it is a limitation. You want that High grade slave set in Curse and your clone is in Venal, you have to travel to get it there. Not just jump to a clone and have a buddy bring every set in existence down with a carrier. Of course you could drop High grade slaves in every clone you have but that also limits you to just that set. And while that might not be the most convenient thing i don't see the issue with not everyone being 100% specialized in every ship they can undock in. There are a lot of people with too much iskies or RL money dropping 110's of gtc's down to keep pvping who would be able to do just that. It is too convenient to have access to every set all around the galaxy, gotta travel 60 odd jumps to bring it there? tough! Eve is not a furry warm soft world. Some things should require :effort: Originally by: Raven Timoshenko stuff Under this system, it will not be just YOU heading into combat at 100% effectiveness, so will your opponents, which if you think about it would mean more interesting battles and less bitterness in terms of you loosing your learning implants to a guy in combat implants. You will still loose implants, but now it will be in a situation where your implants actually MATTERED. If i was in a learning clone and lost due to that fact i deserve to lose. The guy who won would have invested more into the fight and quite possibly may still lose due to the highly situational way combat in eve works. Implants are a choice, and a risk. You slap on the wrong ones your down a few isk. You choose to drop your pvp clone in venal and want to pvp in Curse? Get in a fast Frig and fly there or buy 2 sets and ditch the learning implants.
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.12 22:40:00 - [15] How about if you remove the implant it is not as good and is a lower version that you wind up with. Example: You get a +5% to armor HP implant. You plug it in. You remove it and it is now a +3%. Then again, who in gonna do that either. Didn't they say something about looking into the timer on clone jumping or was that just strictly related to Clone Vat Bays??
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.13 02:26:00 - [16] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 13/04/2008 02:29:12 Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh You want that High grade slave set in Curse and your clone is in Venal, you have to travel to get it there. Not just jump to a clone and have a buddy bring every set in existence down with a carrier. Of course you could drop High grade slaves in every clone you have but that also limits you to just that set. And while that might not be the most convenient thing i don't see the issue with not everyone being 100% specialized in every ship they can undock in. Again my point here is that things will be made more convenient for people who want to Pvp, thereby increasing the instances of combat and therefore loss of ships and modules, thereby preserving market equilibrium. EVE should be harsh not in matters of choosing between fighting and not fighting because of exigent issues of implants. THAT IS NOT FUN. Which in my opinion is the point all along. Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh There are a lot of people with too much iskies or RL money dropping 110's of gtc's down to keep pvping who would be able to do just that. It is too convenient to have access to every set all around the galaxy, gotta travel 60 odd jumps to bring it there? tough! Eve is not a furry warm soft world. Some things should require :effort: This is the kind of effort we need to put in? hauling our stuff from one end of the galaxy to the other? Would all that time and effort be better spent in ACTUAL combat, taking the losses and then having to grind for new ships and modules? Oh and Btw since you have bought up the GTCs and RMT (sic) this seems like a Non sequitur for one thing, some people buy ISKies, and thereby continue to pvp with better ships , modules and implants than the rest of us. This is something thats a META-GAME issue, and also one that ruins the experience for the rest of us. Not everyone can afford to keep buying ISKies for one thing. And to going back to your :effort: bit, where is the effort in buying ISK? Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh If i was in a learning clone and lost due to that fact i deserve to lose. The guy who won would have invested more into the fight and quite possibly may still lose due to the highly situational way combat in eve works. Which you would even under this system, since you may be grinding in your impants or mining, travelling, hauling or whatever and get ganked in the process if you forget or choose not to loose out on training time. This will just happen a lot less. This is no less highly situational than the current system, it just refines it and makes it more relevant to the situation at hand. Quote: Implants are a choice, and a risk. You slap on the wrong ones your down a few isk. You choose to drop your pvp clone in venal and want to pvp in Curse? Get in a fast Frig and fly there or buy 2 sets and ditch the learning implants. Again, you will still loose implants, probably more often than not, since more people would be more willing to take risks and loose ships. The fact that you would like to see people travel rather than PvP or choose NOT pvP is pretty strange, I would rather log on get into a fight loose my ship in combat and walk a way with a feeling of satisfaction at a good day's game rather than log on, find out for the NTH FREAKING time that the action is located in the NTH FREAKING corner of the galaxy, and the only implants nearby in a JC are wholly inappropriate and since hey, I cant remove my current implants anyway , I travel down 20 jumps wasting precious time in the process only to get in at the last minute if AT THAT, or worse get ganked on the way down, get podded, and loose implants which would not helped me in combat in the first place. I dont know about you but I dont pay CCP money so I can waste my few hours in the game doing dull stuff like pipe running, especially after putting the time and effort to get JCs, implants and ships. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.13 02:54:00 - [17] I would like to talk about this whole issue about effort: How is it any less of an effort for getting say 3 SETS of implants for say 5 jump clones? How is any less of an effort to then loose implants on one clone, and then have to grind for a new set? Surely people now have incentives to put in even MORE effort since they would like to have as good a chance with any clone as possible, as well as update each clone with new and better implants and equipment. Too put my whole concept in a nut shell: SIA implants = more incentive and opportunities to PvP = more ships and modules and implants lost = market equilibrium maintained. JCs + SIAs = more incentive to grind for multiple sets per clone = more ISK expended in purchases = market equilibrium maintained. Result = More incentives provided, More effort needed, more ISK expended, More PvP conducted, MORE FUN. How many new players to EVE get into a habit of saying " Oh, you know I would like to PvP , but I am training up some skills with these brand new learning implants of mine, and I don't want to loose them." Well now they would no longer have an excuse.
Zartach Tzarszh Minmatar The Royal Engineers	Posted - 2008.04.13 08:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Zartach Tzarszh on 13/04/2008 08:39:18 You see EVE is not Counter Strike, It involves actualy more planning and effort than "undock, pew pew, dock". Playing teh actual game is not solely a comment to direct to carebears who don't want to pvp, it evenly goes to all the CS types who don't want to carebear. You slack off on your logistics, you fly low grade ships/fittings/bad or no implants. Just pressing F5-2-3-5 and getting some uberfit pvp ship and having your intended target be able to do exactly the same is not the way to play eve. Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Again my point here is that things will be made more convenient for people who want to Pvp, thereby increasing the instances of combat and therefore loss of ships and modules, thereby preserving market equilibrium. EVE should be harsh not in matters of choosing between fighting and not fighting because of exigent issues of implants. THAT IS NOT FUN. Which in my opinion is the point all along. You can always fight, as i said "thank Veldspar" the pilots skill and reactiontime and "if he knows what the hell he is doing" still count for something in combat. Personaly i fight mostly without the Snake set due to lack of implant space, this does not make me lose all my ships somehow. Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Again, you will still loose implants, probably more often than not, since more people would be more willing to take risks and loose ships. The fact that you would like to see people travel rather than PvP or choose NOT pvP is pretty strange, I would rather log on get into a fight loose my ship and implants in combat and walk a way with a feeling of satisfaction at a good day's game rather than log on, find out for the NTH FREAKING time that the action is located in the NTH FREAKING corner of the galaxy, and the only implants nearby in a JC are wholly inappropriate and since hey, I cant remove my current implants anyway , I travel down 20 jumps wasting precious time in the process only to get in at the last minute if AT THAT, or worse get ganked on the way down, get podded, and loose implants which would not helped me in combat in the first place. You know when insurance came in people were thinking the same ... oh losses wont be so bad, more people will risk their ship ... Oh wai.... This will become the exact same, people will never want to risk it unless they don't give a "..." or they have absolute faith in their own abilities. I mean, people wont even risk their t1 ships if they think their odds are bad.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.13 08:56:00 - [19] I never PvP with implants, or when my jump clone is unavailable. But I would if I could swap in a "cheap" set on a whim (100m or less cheap). So I think it's a decent idea. Wouldn't change my gaming habits much, except for PvPing a bit more often. Or perhaps they could just make same-system jump cloning not take your jump clone cooldown into consideration. That would be easier to do, I think... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2008.04.13 14:10:00 - [20] Edited by: xOm3gAx on 13/04/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: Redd Lenses Edited by: Redd Lenses on 11/04/2008 20:45:48 Originally by: xOm3gAx Originally by: Kiki Arnolds Stuff Solution - put a 48 hour timer on the removal / installation process. Eg: You can remove a set with a 24 hour timer after that is up you can put in a set with another 24 hour timer before it can be removed. or something along those lines balance the time out to fit the game. That's exactly what he's trying to get rid of. I currently have a slave set, snake set, and +5 set in jump clones all in the same system but have to wait 24hrs each time I jump. I love the op's proposal because I could fit for the engagement at hand. If I'm flying my Sabre, I could pop in the snakes and zoom around, if there's a battleship fleet, I could pop in my slaves. The only thing this does is allow people to choose what implants they want to have in to fit the occasion. If they get podded, they still lose the implants and now the SIA as well. In addition, you could also have different grades of SIAs that would handle different meta-levels of implants. Perhaps meta 1 would handle only +1s and +2s and the 1% enhancers and a meta 6 would be required for the high-grade faction implants. Meta 1 could cost 5m and Meta 6 could cost 200m. I'd pay. The only way this hurts the implant ISK sink is that when going on 0.0 ops in non-pirate implants (snakes), you could easily swap out for some +2s or +3s and not lose the +4s or +5s to a bubble that you can't avoid that you would lose at the moment because of the inconvenience of jump clones. Edit: This might actually increase the sale of implants (I'd be buying more) because if we had jump clones to use as they were intended we could have multiple SIAs at each jump location. Still overpowered m8. Im not saying i dont like the idea but it is overpowered. There has to be some form of penalty for being able to swap them out like that. EG: a time penalty. Even if its not 24-48 hours as i always put stuff like that on the high end. And for the record i wouldnt complain if there was no penalty. Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights. [url="http://myeve.eve-online.co

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.13 14:18:00 - [21] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 13/04/2008 14:24:01 Quote: Still overpowered m8. Im not saying i dont like the idea but it is overpowered. There has to be some form of penalty for being able to swap them out like that. EG: a time penalty. Even if its not 24-48 hours as i always put stuff like that on the high end. And for the record i wouldnt complain if there was no penalty. I was thinking about that myself actually. I would say a time penalty of 10 to 30 Minutes. This is a big enough time sink that will in the heat of combat would make it impractical to dock at a station and do a quick replace from the moment that you unplug the first SIA to the moment you want to plug in the other one (provided you are the station where the SIA is located in the first place, or if you have balls of steel that would allow you to carry multiple SIAs with you) While at the same time we should not be going down the JC 24 hrs cool down route, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA in the first place. Its nice to see people actually interested in the idea and see some value in it, keep the comments coming. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2008.04.13 15:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 13/04/2008 14:24:01 Quote: Still overpowered m8. Im not saying i dont like the idea but it is overpowered. There has to be some form of penalty for being able to swap them out like that. EG: a time penalty. Even if its not 24-48 hours as i always put stuff like that on the high end. And for the record i wouldnt complain if there was no penalty. I was thinking about that myself actually. I would say a time penalty of 10 to 30 Minutes. This is a big enough time sink that will in the heat of combat would make it impractical to dock at a station and do a quick replace from the moment that you unplug the first SIA to the moment you want to plug in the other one (provided you are the station where the SIA is located in the first place, or if you have balls of steel that would allow you to carry multiple SIAs with you) While at the same time we should not be going down the JC 24 hrs cool down route, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA in the first place. Its nice to see people actually interested in the idea and see some value in it, keep the comments coming. Now that does sound quite a bit more feasible I would almost certainly go for a minimal 30minutes though. While 30 minutes is a VERY long time in PvP in general odds are you will be podded in that time frame anyway in any major engagement thus allowing for a new SIA to be plugged in. 30 Minutes does sound good though. End of the day though something less of a pain then jump clones would be nice. Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights. [url="http://myeve.eve-online.co
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.14 10:15:00 - [23] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=746357
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.14 11:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 14/04/2008 11:16:50 I love the idea. As a person who wants to get into PvP but currently has no desire or incentive to risk implants, this sounds an excellent way to encourage PvP whilst keeping or increasing the ISK sink. Considering that I'd have to spend more money for a more flexible solution as proposed, and that only an idiot would PvP with their +5 learning implants in given the choice (i.e. at present they'd use a jump-clone), I'd say this just speeds the process up and encourages more PvP. I don't get the arguments about less effort or less money. They don't seem to have read the full post. Changing implants like a module for your pod is no different to using a jump-clone, just faster. Given that you can activate a jump clone any time whilst docked (possibly requiring a medbay, can't remember, but then changing implant sets should as well, it's not like changing a tire), I don't see how this impacts PvP at all negatively. You still run the risk as before of getting caught with your implants in, you still have to pay for the implants and on top of that a set to hold them, and you still have to replace it when you're podded with it. Seems zero change to me beyond the positive effect of quicker, simpler changes, and better PvP support. Edit: To avoid having hundreds of implant sets lying around, just have a suitable limiting skill. In addition, this nicely removes the linkage between jump clones as an implant store, and jump clones as a fast travel mechanism. Jump clones weren't intended for supporting PvP or storing implants, they just happened to evolved into that. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.14 16:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edit: To avoid having hundreds of implant sets lying around, just have a suitable limiting skill. In addition, this nicely removes the linkage between jump clones as an implant store, and jump clones as a fast travel mechanism. Jump clones weren't intended for supporting PvP or storing implants, they just happened to evolved into that. Firstly thanks for the support About a skill limiting SIAs per JC, which I presume that is what you mean. The thing is that I dont see how this can be implemented. Lets say I have a skill called SIA Networking, which allows N number of SIA per N point of skill for N number of JCs. Since the SIAs will probably have a number of sets which would differ from each other, how does one select which SIA is the one that will be considered against the skill and which one is not? It would we quite complicated. About JCs as a fast travel mechanism - yes I completely agree, JCs should not have to function as implants stores on top of travel systems, worse they are mostly NOT used for travel. Like Red Lenses says in his above post, he has 5 JCs ALL in the SAME system, purely for the benefit of having the implant sets handy. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Sabrina Al'Kian	Posted - 2008.04.14 17:03:00 - [26] /signed Even if it does end up decreasing market value of implants, that's fine by me. I'd rather have EVERYONE in implants than NO ONE. They just let each ship become more specialized.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.15 02:46:00 - [27] /bump, need comments and sigs please Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:21:00 - [28] Personally I'd keep the SIA system simple, something like the following: 1 pilot, N x 5 SIAs (with level 5 skill), 5 JCs (with level 5 skill), and remove any linkage between them. SIAs are like a module you carry around in your head, with your implants, with all the systems you've already mentioned, in your current clone. At the moment: I jump clone, I don't take implants with me, I have jump clones with implants. New system: I jump clone, I don't take SIA with me, I have another SIA lying around nearby as needed, it's up to me to organise that the implants I want are nearby, I plug in SIAs as needed provided they're with me in cargo. Thus for a simple 'back to existing circumstances' case, I'd have 5 jump clones, 5 SIAs which are next to each of the clones, and I wear each set on those clones. The distinction now is that I can have more than just those 5 SIAs, as limited by skill, thus allowing more flexibility. With Red Lenses' and xOm3gAx's suggestions, this system sounds pretty hard to exploit, a lot more flexible, and shouldn't change the market price of implants at all.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 15/04/2008 10:26:12 Personally I'd keep the SIA system simple, something like the following: 1 pilot, N x 5 SIAs (with level 5 skill), 5 JCs (with level 5 skill), and remove any linkage between them. SIAs are like a module you carry around in your head, with your implants, with all the systems you've already mentioned, in your current clone. At the moment: I jump, I don't take implants with me, I have jump clones with implants. New system: I jump, I don't take SIA with me, I have another SIA lying around nearby as needed, it's up to me to organise that the implants I want are nearby, I plug in SIAs as needed provided they're with me in cargo. Thus for a simple 'back to existing circumstances' case, I'd have 5 jump clones, 5 SIAs which are next to each of the clones, and I wear each set on those clones. The distinction now is that I can have more than just those 5 SIAs, as limited by skill, thus allowing more flexibility. With Red Lenses' and xOm3gAx's suggestions, this system sounds pretty hard to exploit, a lot more flexible, and shouldn't change the market price of implants at all. yes keep it simple, Cybernetics will dictate the meta-level of the SIA as it does now for implants , and Infomorph Psychology will dictate the number of JCs as it does now. thats it. You basically can have as many SIAs as you like providing you meet the requirements, with the above restrictions applying.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:05:00 - [30] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463

Integra Arkanheld	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:53:00 - [31] Hello, If you only want to have more people in 0.0, it is easier to have 2 jumps in 24hours (1 to take the clone without implants, and the other to return to your body), or make a skill to decrease the 24H time or increase the number of changes per day.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:59:00 - [32] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 15/04/2008 15:59:39 Originally by: Integra Arkanheld Hello, If you only want to have more people in 0.0, it is easier to have 2 jumps in 24hours (1 to take the clone without implants, and the other to return to your body), or make a skill to decrease the 24H time or increase the number of changes per day. This is not just about getting people into 0.0 this is also getting people to Pvp more and take more risks, increase the money sink as a consequence and allow for more pilot flexibility, getting a JC at the correct area at the correct time with the correct implants in order to join in a large or even small scale Pvp operation is not easily achieved right now. Suggest you reread the complete thread if you have not already done so. The SIA allows for pilots to be flexible with their implant layouts, increases the money sink for ships, modules and implants and also allow new players to get into pvp without suffering a major loss while allowing older players to better use their implants and resources. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Sabe Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:14:00 - [33] Bad idea... this is yet another example of "give a mouse a cookie, next he'll want a glass of milk too"... Jump Clones were added for a reason. Use them. They have a drawback (24 hour timer) suck it up. Or how about we all just have a full set of snakes and +5's all in our heads at same time? oh oh lets just have all implants in game in our heads and they dont get destroyed when we get podded, make them permanant and we'll never have to buy another set again... (SARCASM) Yet another post of "I want it all and I want it now"
NightKhaos Gallente Khaos Wielders	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Sabe Bad idea... this is yet another example of "give a mouse a cookie, next he'll want a glass of milk too"... Jump Clones were added for a reason. Use them. They have a drawback (24 hour timer) suck it up. Or how about we all just have a full set of snakes and +5's all in our heads at same time? oh oh lets just have all implants in game in our heads and they dont get destroyed when we get podded, make them permanant and we'll never have to buy another set again... (SARCASM) Yet another post of "I want it all and I want it now" sigh And this is another case of "not listening and disbanding the post without any evidence as to why it is a bad idea." Player owned stargates. Dragger Ships Heat Mark II
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Sabe Bad idea... this is yet another example of "give a mouse a cookie, next he'll want a glass of milk too"... Jump Clones were added for a reason. Use them. They have a drawback (24 hour timer) suck it up. Or how about we all just have a full set of snakes and +5's all in our heads at same time? oh oh lets just have all implants in game in our heads and they dont get destroyed when we get podded, make them permanant and we'll never have to buy another set again... (SARCASM) Yet another post of "I want it all and I want it now" Your Signatre says TROLL. How appropriate. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.16 11:52:00 - [36] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.17 17:58:00 - [37] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.02 03:34:00 - [38] /bump
Cairn Metalhand Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:44:00 - [39] I like this idea, currently i never use anything more expensive then +3 implants since i pvp alot, and i havent bothered with jumpclones since they require sick corp standings and dont really add anything imo. /signed
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:48:00 - [40] I like this idea because I could buy a +5 set (way out of my price range if I risk losing them everytime I undock)

Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.02 17:12:00 - [41] I like the idea. Another way this would increase implant demand is all the bugs I'm sure there would be that cause peoples implants to disappear.
Sniggerdly Hater The Abyssmal Spire	Posted - 2008.05.02 20:40:00 - [42] Horrible idea. Horrible horrible idea. You buy one of those widgets, plug +5s, and always undock without them thanks to the widget. How do you ever lose them? If said implant widget was constantly carried in a body as opposed to be able to plug it out (so you'd have in your clone all together a set of snakes, a set of slaves and a set of +5s) and the widget allowed you to switch between implant sets but when you got podded you lost all of them, then fine. OPs idea, otherwise is horrible and I bet carebears love it.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.03 01:05:00 - [43] Originally by: S****dly Hater Horrible idea. Horrible horrible idea. You buy one of those widgets, plug +5s, and always undock without them thanks to the widget. How do you ever lose them? If said implant widget was constantly carried in a body as opposed to be able to plug it out (so you'd have in your clone all together a set of snakes, a set of slaves and a set of +5s) and the widget allowed you to switch between implant sets but when you got podded you lost all of them, then fine. OPs idea, otherwise is horrible and I bet carebears love it. The idea is that you leave behind your learning implants and plug in your combat implants, thereby making use of them in a combat situation , i.e more reason to PvP. It seems that many people would prefer to have
Sniggerdly Hater The Abyssmal Spire	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: S****dly Hater Horrible idea. Horrible horrible idea. You buy one of those widgets, plug +5s, and always undock without them thanks to the widget. How do you ever lose them? If said implant widget was constantly carried in a body as opposed to be able to plug it out (so you'd have in your clone all together a set of snakes, a set of slaves and a set of +5s) and the widget allowed you to switch between implant sets but when you got podded you lost all of them, then fine. OPs idea, otherwise is horrible and I bet carebears love it. The idea is that you leave behind your learning implants and plug in your combat implants, thereby making use of them in a combat situation , i.e more reason to PvP. It seems that many people would prefer to have It'll never get implemented. Never ever. It's like asking for insurance for T2 ships and arguing more people would pvp if they would be fully insurable.
Doc Extropy Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.03 15:54:00 - [45] I agree with the op, therefore: /signed Explanation: At the moment, the 24h - JC / non-removable implants - system is placing a high premium on highsec - carebearing, especially for characters who are in game every day. While occasional / weekend players (like me) could jc into lowsec / 0.0 when they feel like playing for 1 or 2 days in their implantless jc's and jc back into safe empire haven for the weekdays, the people who decide for staying in low sec / 0.0 don't have that option. In fact, the 24 hour timer nerfed pvp. :D The SIA is a good idea. I'd have a set of low end combat implants for fighting teh ebil 0.0 pirates and a high end +5 one when I sit in the station for the night (or so). CCP wants people to do more pvp, right? I want that, too... But you can't punish people who do PVP by withdrawing the most valuable asset in the game which is SP from them. A question of logic, if you ask me. Give us SIAs, CCP, and I guess you will see more PVP than ever before. And yes, having to fetch cheap replacement +2s all the time is no solution, either. Remember, this is a game, not a 2nd job.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.04 02:13:00 - [46] Thanks for your support Just wonder if CCP has ever read this.
LordLuciusMorpheus	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:05:00 - [47] Edited by: LordLuciusMorpheus on 04/05/2008 07:13:43 Edited by: LordLuciusMorpheus on 04/05/2008 07:11:03 Edited by: LordLuciusMorpheus on 04/05/2008 07:09:29 CareBear this CareBear that. Alot of us that are posting here, probably wouldn't be CareBears if the SIA system was in place like Raven is suggesting. By the way, I'm not a CareBear either! I believe this system would get more players to PvP, not only that, but increase market prices for both implants and Ships due to the loss of implants and ships because more would venture into PvP. 1 question is; are you saying you could swap these SIA's out of station or they would have to be in station? I would suggest in station only and agree to a timer cooldown and a price to change every time, that way CCP would benefit either way and it would still take some reasonable amount of time before switching. Because the only agruement I could see is that if it wasn't that way, players would switch all the time and freely at will to lose a lesser priced set than a higher priced set. Also, I do like the fact that you mentioned the SIA itself would have to be purchased as well as the grade of the SIA depending on skills. Yet I think additional skills would need to be trained to use them, not just the ones for regular JC's. It would make it just as equal for a new player to train as a player who say already has the skills for JC's, just farther along. Now I would suggest skills to be required Cybernetics V and Infomorph to at least IV and an additional skill Synaptic Inerface Array (SIA) to use the SIA's, with each lvl letting you use the higher grade SIA. Then I could see this working and CCP actually thinking about adding this to the game, besides they have already considered the expansion of implants anyway, so this would actually raise an eyebrow to them. Oh and if you're wondering Sabe and S*****dly Hater, I have been playing since Beta, and I don't think this is a "give it to me now, I'm a CareBear or Newb and don't have a fighting chance" player. Besides, why are you complaining in the first place, wouldn't this benefit PvPers anyway? Huh, I mean think about it! Now we can have multiple implants in multiple SIA's that we can change anytime we wish for anything we want. Sounds like a good idea Raven. Thanks for actually trying to make this game more interesting for us all instead of complaining about "BULL#%@ like some others.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.04 08:08:00 - [48] Firstly thanks for your support Lucius. To answer your questions: 1) Yes they will have to be docked at a station in order to swap SIAs, however there will also be a 30 Minute cool down between unplugging one SIA and before plugging in another. 2) I am not sure if a price cost should be necessary, since remember that the SIA(s) have to present at the station, or the pilot must risk carrying multiple sets with him in his ship when moving around ( A very big risk if he gets shot down). If there is a price cost, it should be say a Million ISK at best. No more, otherwise it somewhat defeats the purpose. 3) My thinking was Cybernetics which currently decides the level of the implants should decide the level of the SIA themselves, however a separate SIA level skill that determines the grade of the SIA itself may be a further limitation against possible abuse. New pilots can begin with a Grade ZERO SIA (Limited slots and +1 Implants at best) they will then have to pay for better SIAs, at an exponential rate.
LordLuciusMorpheus	Posted - 2008.05.04 20:01:00 - [49] Thank you Raven for clearing that up. I suggest it costing something only to benefit CCP, which in turn would give them more of a reason to bringing this into game. Also, like I have said before, They are already looking into expanding the Implant part of Eve, so this may be a possibility to them. I believe alot of players would love this and possibly CCP as well. I would suggest starting a pole and having names taken down so that you can have a significant case to throw there way. If you need any help, let me know.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.05 02:25:00 - [50] Thanks Lucius, if you look at the post just under the Original Post, you will see I have included a list of people who agree with the idea. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463

Wayward Hero	Posted - 2008.05.05 05:51:00 - [51] I support this idea as an innovate approach to a somewhat serious concern for some players. Some players say that this idea supports carebears. Wrong, it supports PvPers. Carebears don't need to protect implants, they just avoid pod-loss situations. PvPers either don't use valuable implants, judiciously use jump clones for implant storage, or else constantly risk their own implants. This concept basically is a straight forward, and eloquent, substitution to the use of jump clones as implant storage devices. What do you do now if you want to store implants? Plug them in and then jump into a fresh clone. What would you do with the OP's proposed idea? Plug in your implants and then remove the SIA. Same thing as a jump clone but with additional flexibility. Players without access to jump clones can engage in pvp combat without fear of losing their implants, a luxury already enjoyed by players with jump clones. This is of benefit to current pvp players as they can afford to possess both expensive learning sets and pvp sets of implants, with specific sets depending on the tactical situation (POS blobbing, high speed roaming gang, or solo). This is of benefit to more reluctant or younger pvp players as they only need to worry about ship loss as a financial setback when engaging in pvp. You would be surprised how many people don't go into low-sec because they fear the loss of their implants and either can't use or don't want the hassle of jump clones. All in all, I agree that this is a good idea and deserves notice by the devs. Good one Raven.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.05 06:08:00 - [52] Thanks for your eloquent support Wayward, lets hope the Devs are paying attention. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:41:00 - [53] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.06 09:51:00 - [54] i couldn't agree more with the OP. This one is signed! Though i would make some adjustments: - no free SIA for starters - SIA change cooldown 1 to 2 hours - JC cooldown can then remain at 24h, as it will only serve to travel or, as an option for those who think there will be less imps destroyed, 2 different SIA. One only for implant slots 6 - 10 with a higher cooldown, and another for slots 1 - 10 with a lower cooldown. But personaly i think that will be unnecessary. Imho SIA will increase the demand of hardwiring, as everyone will create sets for different purposes. Also more hardwirings will blow, as players don't have the 24h restriction for clone jump and therefore could more easily fight for the battle at hand, which they may had not while have their +5 attribute enhancers fitted or the wrong combat imps. There will be no change to the destruction of the expensive imps, as they actually only blow when players get cauth in a surprise when not prepared. This will remain the same.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah i couldn't agree more with the OP. This one is signed! Though i would make some adjustments: - no free SIA for starters - SIA change cooldown 1 to 2 hours - JC cooldown can then remain at 24h, as it will only serve to travel or, as an option for those who think there will be less imps destroyed, 2 different SIA. One only for implant slots 6 - 10 with a higher cooldown, and another for slots 1 - 10 with a lower cooldown. But personaly i think that will be unnecessary. Imho SIA will increase the demand of hardwiring, as everyone will create sets for different purposes. Also more hardwirings will blow, as players don't have the 24h restriction for clone jump and therefore could more easily fight for the battle at hand, which they may had not while have their +5 attribute enhancers fitted or the wrong combat imps. There will be no change to the destruction of the expensive imps, as they actually only blow when players get cauth in a surprise when not prepared. This will remain the same. Thanks for your support. 1) Firstly the reason that newbie pilost should atleast have a "kiddie" SIA is they have something to plug in the initial basic implants into, the stuff they get from story missions initially. It will be pretty basic, +1 Implants only, and only 3 slots. 2)Cooldown of 1 hr is fine, AFTER the pilot has unplugged his SIA, but before he can unplug his next one. 3) JCs can remain at 24hrs then sure, since people can now have multiple sets of SIAs per JC as well 4)Yes I think demand for all kinds of implants and the additional exponential costs of SIAs shall really be a boost to the market as well as increasing PvP
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:54:00 - [56] Quote: Horrible idea. Horrible horrible idea. You buy one of those widgets, plug +5s, and always undock without them thanks to the widget. How do you ever lose them? If said implant widget was constantly carried in a body as opposed to be able to plug it out (so you'd have in your clone all together a set of snakes, a set of slaves and a set of +5s) and the widget allowed you to switch between implant sets but when you got podded you lost all of them, then fine. OPs idea, otherwise is horrible and I bet carebears love it. That. Come on, it's a stupid idea. It defeats the entire point of implants - that they're an optional extra with significant risk involved. Whoever thought this up must be a colossal carebear.
Fangedterror Caldari Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:56:00 - [57] I think it would be a great idea. CCP really needs more money flowing back to them... I would just like to know how much this item would cost. Fanged
Seishi Maru Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:04:00 - [58] If you don go PVP because of your implants (and here I am talking normal implants not +5 complete sets neither crystal sets etc...) then you don cut to pvp. PV is about risking.. don't want to risk, don PVP, simple. Smart people have PVP clones with 2 * +3 implants (that cover the skill you are training at moment). Then when you know you won't go pvp for some time, JC to a +5 set and sleep.
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.06 15:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Seishi Maru If you don go PVP because of your implants (and here I am talking normal implants not +5 complete sets neither crystal sets etc...) then you don cut to pvp. PV is about risking.. don't want to risk, don PVP, simple. Smart people have PVP clones with 2 * +3 implants (that cover the skill you are training at moment). Then when you know you won't go pvp for some time, JC to a +5 set and sleep. will those kind of dump postings ever end?
eranonal	Posted - 2008.05.06 16:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Gypsio III Come on, it's a stupid idea. It defeats the entire point of implants - that they're an optional extra with significant risk involved. Whoever thought this up must be a colossal carebear. No way. For hardwirings this makes perfect sense. Different hardwiring sets boost ships with different roles and bonuses. It's a solid idea to be able to choose your hardwiring as often as you switch ships. And the OP is right, this doesn't decrease ISK risk or loss and does encourage more PvP. I hate flying my nano-fits without speed hardwirings and my battleship sets without dmg hardwirings. The problem comes down to the attribute implants. Where as hardwirings provide no benefit while being docked and thus have to be risked to be used, attribute enhancers do provide bonuses while docked. So people would just buy a +5 set and never undock in them. That's a problem. Personally, I have pirate implants which I pvp in, and I'd really like to be able to switch to my +5 set every so often to pick up the train time, but since I'm on daily and my pirate implants make such a huge difference I just have to suck it up and lose the train time. I would really like a balanced solution that'd let me gain the train time without losing the combat utility. It'd be nice to see that changed. Maybe there could be some form of non-dockable stucture located in low sec where implants could be changed with implants in the cargohold or something similar Obviously this site could be camped and would be contested for it's utility. Might give us another combat venue besides stations, gates, the occasional belt and the rare mission or safespot.

Sniggerdly Hater The Abyssmal Spire	Posted - 2008.05.06 17:52:00 - [61] Originally by: eranonal Personally, I have pirate implants which I pvp in, and I'd really like to be able to switch to my +5 set every so often to pick up the train time, but since I'm on daily and my pirate implants make such a huge difference I just have to suck it up and lose the train time. I would really like a balanced solution that'd let me gain the train time without losing the combat utility. There is no solution because there is no problem. You aren't asking for a balanced solution, you are asking for some magical widget that will allow you to both maximize training and pvping at the same time, while reducing isk loss risk. That is not balanced. It'd be nice to see that changed. Maybe there could be some form of non-dockable stucture located in low sec where implants could be changed with implants in the cargohold or something similar Obviously this site could be camped and would be contested for it's utility. Might give us another combat venue besides stations, gates, the occasional belt and the rare mission or safespot.
Gallente Pilot	Posted - 2008.05.06 18:10:00 - [62] Originally by: S****dly Hater There is no solution because there is no problem. You aren't asking for a balanced solution, you are asking for some magical widget that will allow you to both maximize training and pvping at the same time, while reducing isk loss risk. That is not balanced. Actually, you just fail at reading. Rl learning skills need some more train time cake-eater? No one wants to reduce isk loss risk. I never clone jump out of my snakes because they are so amazingly good. This means everytime I pvp, which is nearly everyday, I risk my snakes and the massive cost that comes along with them. That's fine by me. As for maximizing Pvping and training... why should this be a tradeoff in a PvP game. Why should the amount of skillpoints I generate per hour be balanced against how well my ship is capable of performing? Currently you have to make the decision to either be worse in pvp or to generate more SP/hour, how dumb is that? IMO attribute enhancers should have been kept totally seperate from hardwirings. If they do cross over like this there should be the option to purchase +5 pirate implant sets.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:22:00 - [63] Well this could work IF: Implants were a lot rarer and/or more expensive Implants had a limited lifetime Otherwise the supply will exceed the demand by a huge margin. Implants, especially the good ones, should be kind of a luxury good.
eranonal	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:31:00 - [64] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Well this could work IF: Implants were a lot rarer and/or more expensive Implants had a limited lifetime Otherwise the supply will exceed the demand by a huge margin. Implants, especially the good ones, should be kind of a luxury good. You realize it both drives up demand for hardwiring implants and increases how often they're lost? How this does anything but leave supply the same and boost demand is beyond me. Obviously the attribute enhancing implants are a different beast to balance.
LordLuciusMorpheus	Posted - 2008.05.07 01:32:00 - [65] Edited by: LordLuciusMorpheus on 07/05/2008 01:34:26 Originally by: S****dly Hater Originally by: eranonal Personally, I have pirate implants which I pvp in, and I'd really like to be able to switch to my +5 set every so often to pick up the train time, but since I'm on daily and my pirate implants make such a huge difference I just have to suck it up and lose the train time. I would really like a balanced solution that'd let me gain the train time without losing the combat utility. There is no solution because there is no problem. You aren't asking for a balanced solution, you are asking for some magical widget that will allow you to both maximize training and pvping at the same time, while reducing isk loss risk. That is not balanced. It'd be nice to see that changed. Maybe there could be some form of non-dockable stucture located in low sec where implants could be changed with implants in the cargohold or something similar Obviously this site could be camped and would be contested for it's utility. Might give us another combat venue besides stations, gates, the occasional belt and the rare mission or safespot. 1st S******dly Hater, There is a solution, there's a solution for everything 2nd It's not called a "Magic Widget" it's so far called an "SIA" which means Synatic Interface Array 3rd CCP's main goal is to make the game of Eve better and this would be better 4th Better because you wouldn't have to wait 24hrs to jump into a clone with Implants that you current are needing 5th The risk loss would still be there, especially to those in Low sec. or 0.0 6th How you ask? 6A PvP would rise in those areas because implants that you are needing at the time are now available 6B Which would in turn, make it so that those who wanted to PvP able to do so instead of having to sit back due to the fact the implants needed were 40 jumps away and 23hrs left to JC to them. 7th I disagree on the nondockable structure in low sec, due to the fact I know YOU and others would sit ur fat arses there and try and kill everything that moved. Why make it easier for you? 8th I know I as well as others really hate when we have to toss a 100m+ implant away because we have no other choice 9th The market would be fine 9A Many others, as well as myself, would buy as many of these as we could for many different reasons. 9B Many have been mentioned 10 It would make it easier on new players to stay in the game 10A Now they can switch implants as needed 10B Especially when PvPers like you, go into Empire and steal from their cans to hope they shoot you, just so you can blow them up for a kill. 11 This game is not just ment for PvP, if it was, it would have been called MMOPVP, Role Playing is all sorts of things, from Missions to Dungeons, to Exploration, Invention, Travel, Combat, so on and so on. Look at any other RPG out there. Name 1 that is just PvP.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.07 08:00:00 - [66] It seems that people dont realize that you can still loose the implants and the SIA itself in combat, the only thing that really changes if that those pilots who go into combat now have the option to either risk using combat implants, and thereby boosting their combat effectiveness, or not use any implants, (as it is now in an empty JC) and basically get ganked by an opponent who does use combat implants given that combat implants bestow massive boosts. Imagine if you will you have to buy a high level SIA first, with a cost of say 200 Million ISK, which will allow you to use high grade combat implants like a snake set. ( I dont know the price of a full snake set, so lets just say its about 200 Million ISK as well) , so if you get podded you loose 400 Million ISK vs 200 Million now. So you know must decide to either use these implants in PvP and risk loosing them, or not using them in PvP and getting ganked by an opponent that does. Now the only case where you will NOT be using combat implants to begin with is when you are not flying a combat ship such as a hauler or mining vessel, in which case they would not have helped you anyway. And lets face it, blowing up haulers and miners - well it does not take much skill does it? I don't see why pilots must suffer for this especially if they don't have access to a JC due to either standings, wrong location such as being 40 jumps away or the cooldown. As for Learning implants - so what? If you are a keen pvper your going to be wanting to wear combat implants anyway, the problem now is that in order to Pvp effectively with combat implants you need a JC, which means that new players basically have to wait a while before they get into it, and also may feel annoyed at pvp the first time they go into low sec get ganked at podded by a gate camp and loose their learning implants in the process. Bottomline is that pilots who use combat implants against pilots who dont use implants ( all other things being equal) are going to have a decisive advantage anyway. Plus this also means PvP INCREASES because people are now willing to risk going into low sec either with combat implants or no implants, but this means that SHIPS & MODULES get destroyed MORE OFTEN, So thats GOOD for the market and manufacturers. Also lets accept the argument that people wont buy as many LEARNING implants as much as they do - so what? these are NPC controlled items ANYWAY. ou can ofcourse grind for LP and ISK then buy it from the store and put it on the market, but that just means you will now Grind for COMBAT implants to put on the market, because the demand for Combat implants will significantly INCREASE. It balances out if you think about it.
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.07 08:58:00 - [67] You should not waste your time trying to explain it again and again Raven. You'll find those "carebear, live with it" trolls in every suggestions thread. Their only concern is their advantages which they might partially loose, allways justified by the suffering market from this change. You should just ignore non constructive posts
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.07 09:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah You should not waste your time trying to explain it again and again Raven. You'll find those "carebear, live with it" trolls in every suggestions thread. Their only concern is their advantages which they might partially loose, allways justified by the suffering market from this change. You should just ignore non constructive posts Thanks Silvana, thing is I that I want to also be clear to CCP, sould they be reading this , and hope they reply, though not bloody likely.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.07 12:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah You should not waste your time trying to explain it again and again Raven. You'll find those "carebear, live with it" trolls in every suggestions thread. Their only concern is their advantages which they might partially loose, allways justified by the suffering market from this change. You should just ignore non constructive posts And your only concern is risking less isk. Looser. Don want to risk the implants, don pvp, wait for other day then JC. Want to PVP risk the implants or wait for another day and JC. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.07 12:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah You should not waste your time trying to explain it again and again Raven. You'll find those "carebear, live with it" trolls in every suggestions thread. Their only concern is their advantages which they might partially loose, allways justified by the suffering market from this change. You should just ignore non constructive posts And your only concern is risking less isk. Looser. Don want to risk the implants, don pvp, wait for other day then JC. Want to PVP risk the implants or wait for another day and JC. So you would prefer that people DONT pvp? That makes sense. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:19:00 - [71] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.08 09:48:00 - [72] Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 08/05/2008 09:53:56 Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 08/05/2008 09:53:30 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah You should not waste your time trying to explain it again and again Raven. You'll find those "carebear, live with it" trolls in every suggestions thread. Their only concern is their advantages which they might partially loose, allways justified by the suffering market from this change. You should just ignore non constructive posts And your only concern is risking less isk. Looser. Don want to risk the implants, don pvp, wait for other day then JC. Want to PVP risk the implants or wait for another day and JC. See what i mean Raven? total Win! PS: it's called a loser, not a looser, you loser!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:03:00 - [73] You guys are dumb or trianign ? Eve need MORE isk sinks, if was not for peopel buying npc items to repreocess in tritanium we woudl be in middle of an absurd inflation. And eve was made so you loose things when you PVP. You are tryign to make the game worse. So stupid idea. VERY very very stupid. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:06:00 - [74] Originally by: Kagura Nikon You guys are dumb or trianign ? Eve need MORE isk sinks, if was not for peopel buying npc items to repreocess in tritanium we woudl be in middle of an absurd inflation. And eve was made so you loose things when you PVP. You are tryign to make the game worse. So stupid idea. VERY very very stupid. Have you even read the whole thing? Or do you just troll? and here the hell did anyone say you can reprocess the item? you cant even SELL it, let alone reprocess it. Make some valid arguments rather than just being offensive. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Kagura Nikon You guys are dumb or trianign ? Eve need MORE isk sinks, if was not for peopel buying npc items to repreocess in tritanium we woudl be in middle of an absurd inflation. And eve was made so you loose things when you PVP. You are tryign to make the game worse. So stupid idea. VERY very very stupid. Allright, Mrs. Kagura Nikon, would you then be so kind to explain us dump lads, WHY exactly EVE needs more ISK sinks? What is so bad about increasing everyones wealth? Secondly, i'm curious why the SIA idea would reduce the ISK loss in general. As far as my degenerated brain understands, SIA will increase ISK loss, as i can pvp without the huge drawback of the current 24h cooldown for clone jumping, resulting in more pvp overall. Also, if one gets poded, he may have several SIA'S in a nearby station. Imagine a 0.0 war, and the guy gets poded 8 times this day. Would it be possible to loose 8 jump clones now? Would it be possible to switch to different ships without loosing your specific implant bonuses (nano, bs whatsoever)? Last but not least, check marketprices for specialized hardwirings like remote and ewar stuff. They are much lower than any other dps/tank hardwiring. With SIA, one could make a set specialized for support or whatever, depending on the fight at hand. So please clearify Mrs. Nikon, why am i getting this wrong?
Endless Subversion Club Bear	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:45:00 - [76] Edited by: Endless Subversion on 08/05/2008 13:45:54 Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah Secondly, i'm curious why the SIA idea would reduce the ISK loss in general. Because, as other posters have already pointed out, although the idea works with hardwirings it doesn't work on attribute enhancers. No one is ever going to undock in any kind of risky environment with their +5s in, there is no reason to. Instead you'll see everyone with a +5 set that they swap to when they're docked, afk, logging off or whatever, that they swap out of whenever they go pvping. This is because attribute enhancers still give a real bonus (train time) when players aren't in space, while the vast majority of hardwiring need the player in space for their bonuses to matter. This issue needs to be addressed. Self Destruct & LogOffs
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 08/05/2008 13:45:54 Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah Secondly, i'm curious why the SIA idea would reduce the ISK loss in general. Because, as other posters have already pointed out, although the idea works with hardwirings it doesn't work on attribute enhancers. No one is ever going to undock in any kind of risky environment with their +5s in, there is no reason to. Instead you'll see everyone with a +5 set that they swap to when they're docked, afk, logging off or whatever, that they swap out of whenever they go pvping. This is because attribute enhancers still give a real bonus (train time) when players aren't in space, while the vast majority of hardwiring need the player in space for their bonuses to matter. This issue needs to be addressed. If you read my above post you would note that Implants are a regulated item anyway .i.e you buy em from NPCs only, when instead of people now grinding for learning implants to sel on the market, they now merely grind for Combat implants, and given the SIA system, they will be more likely to use them than not, hence increasing demand for combat implants. Considering that people who dont want to sacrifice ANY implants may use an empty JC, this in no way effects people who have no intention of PvPing. What it does do is make it more efective to pvp WITh implants i.e combat implants , hence creating a situation where higher turnover takes place with regard to Combat implants, Ship and Modules. Even if the LEARNING implant market takes a hit, which is actually not as much as yo would suspect - mainly for the following: 1) The SIA will have different levels itself, so before you can plug in those +5 Implants you will need to purchase the high grade SIA, which would be exponentially costly with each level. 2) Combining the JC system with the SIA system, you can now position JCs across the galaxy rather than limiting yoruself to just a few region, his means that if you want to be as effective with your JCs, you will buy multiple SIAs for EACH of the JCS, along with the implant sets you want. Hence another money sink is developed. 3) By giving a pilot a quicker and more effective means of managing implants, and bypassing the 24hr cooldown for JCs, you ensure that people are more willing to go into combat than not, hence increasing the number of ships and modules (and combat implants) destoyed due to additional PvP, therby spurring market demand. Yes I wil admit that LEARNING implants may take a hit, but again this is balanced accross the board by the above points, OVERALL the Money Sink is INCREASED not diminished. Consider that dedicated PvPers would prefer to use combat implants than not use them, and not so dedicated pvpers would grind to get an empty JC, hence increasing the time to get into PvP, thereby reducing PvP opportunities overall. Again, Combat implants give pilots a decisive advantage in combat, and this means that by removing this main barrier we create conditions where MORE people will PVP, and thereby create a better market. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:56:00 - [78] /bump with new info Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Endless Subversion Because, as other posters have already pointed out, although the idea works with hardwirings it doesn't work on attribute enhancers. No one is ever going to undock in any kind of risky environment with their +5s in, there is no reason to. doesn't make sense. Who's undocking in his +5 trainset in a risky environment actually? I certainly won't, no matter what the circumstances are. The cances that one undocks in expensive equipment rely on wealth only, nothing else.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.09 06:04:00 - [80] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.10 06:06:00 - [81] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT	Posted - 2008.05.10 11:28:00 - [82] Good idea, would make PvP more common place and would increase demand for both Hardwirings and Attribute enhancers.
Augeas	Posted - 2008.05.10 12:44:00 - [83] Please stop bumping this stupid carebear thread. All your initial assumptions are wrong. Non-PVPers don't go into lowsec because there's nothing much to do there apart from PVP. Jump clones are sufficient. There is nothing wrong with the current balance of ISK sources and sinks. This is just a whine designed to sidestep Rule One of Eve - don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.10 13:00:00 - [84] Originally by: Augeas Please stop bumping this stupid carebear thread. All your initial assumptions are wrong. Non-PVPers don't go into lowsec because there's nothing much to do there apart from PVP. Jump clones are sufficient. There is nothing wrong with the current balance of ISK sources and sinks. This is just a whine designed to sidestep Rule One of Eve - don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Firstly: /bump. Secondly if you want to provide a rational objection please feel to do so, dont resort to ad hominem attacks, not to mention implying that 0.0 is only for "uber-hard" players who sit around with 3 accounts grinding away hours a day to the point you can blow off your implants without a blink, and is there nothing to do in low sec other than pvp? Really? not say - mining and missioning? wow. Thirdly: If you want to insult people atleast log on to your ACTUAL main and show who you really are, rather than getting onto one of your disposo-alts so you can make such comments. Or are you really such a carebear? Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.12 15:22:00 - [85] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.16 06:31:00 - [86] /bump Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:31:00 - [87] I read through the thread in detail. OP: basically you just want to add in a ton of flexibility to the implant process, so that you can have your cake and eat it too. No thanks. Eve is about choices, and making those hard choices effectively. Simply unplugging your implants for thirty minutes so that you can get through a gate camp with much less risk is just total crap. Bad idea all around. Jump clones are easy enough, this is just even more hand holding for lamers who don't want to pay up for their lack of skill when they die. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:17:00 - [88] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I read through the thread in detail. OP: basically you just want to add in a ton of flexibility to the implant process, so that you can have your cake and eat it too. No thanks. Eve is about choices, and making those hard choices effectively. Simply unplugging your implants for thirty minutes so that you can get through a gate camp with much less risk is just total crap. Bad idea all around. Jump clones are easy enough, this is just even more hand holding for lamers who don't want to pay up for their lack of skill when they die. You know one of the main things you read in this forum is how the so called "hard core" players bemoan the fact that so many "carebears" don't come into low sec for the privilege of being ganked at gate camps by aforementioned hardcore players. Then, when someone suggests a way to make it a bit more easier, the same hardcore players go up in arms because they wont get to high five each other when they blow up their umpteenth gank / gate camp victim with (what they hope ) is a head full implants. Firstly: The JC system sucks. Maybe if they reduced the 8.0 standings or give us a Jump clone POS array it would make things better, but as it now stands I have to grind like a maniac whenever I move to a new region in order to get a new JC. I unfortunately cant call myself "hardcore" because well, I have a Real Life which tends to be a major time sink, unlike people who have the time to do so. I play EVE to PvP, not grinding for hours for a JC in order to PvP a la WoW mode. I have lost tons of implants in PvP, I don't have any issues when the loss is due to the other guy being a better PvPer or has the better gear. So: EVE penalizes me in two ways - either having to go through the massive tedium of grinding missions in order to obtain a JC, or I basically go into low sec with a head full of learning implants which don't help me in combat anyway. As for your talk of "skill" yes, sure. It takes a lot of skill to gate camp with you and your pals, waiting for the next victim to come through. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:46:00 - [89] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko blah blah blah, personal attacks, blah blah... I have six clones on Bellum. I have a maxed out HG Slave set clone that I use for piloting blaster BS, another clone that is a maxed out HG Snake set for piloting high speed cruisers/frigs for deadspace mission killing, etc. etc. If anyone would want a quick change implant setup, it would be me. So far all I've read in your reply is how little skill you think it takes to 'gate camp', and for some reason assume that is all I do and/or am capable of. The JC system doesn't suck. It just sucks for you. You don't like it because you don't have access to them due to lack of standing and/or not in an alliance that owns space and outposts and can readily make jumpclones. Boo f*ckin hoo. I'm sure you're also one of those types who wants T2 ships to be fully insurable or something similar. If anything CCP needs to stop all the hand holding and make people sack up and use their brains. I've never lost a pod to anything but my own stupidity and/or being unprepared (see point one). I think I've lost about two or three pods in three+ years of playing. Go figure. JC system is fine. If you want to whine about something, whine about getting rid of insurance. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:06:00 - [90] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Raven Timoshenko blah blah blah, personal attacks, blah blah... I have six clones on Bellum. I have a maxed out HG Slave set clone that I use for piloting blaster BS, another clone that is a maxed out HG Snake set for piloting high speed cruisers/frigs for deadspace mission killing, etc. etc. If anyone would want a quick change implant setup, it would be me. So far all I've read in your reply is how little skill you think it takes to 'gate camp', and for some reason assume that is all I do and/or am capable of. The JC system doesn't suck. It just sucks for you. You don't like it because you don't have access to them due to lack of standing and/or not in an alliance that owns space and outposts and can readily make jumpclones. Boo fckin hoo. I'm sure you're also one of those types who wants T2 ships to be fully insurable or something similar. If anything CCP needs to stop all the hand holding and make people sack up and use their brains. I've never lost a pod to anything but my own stupidity and/or being unprepared (see point one). I think I've lost about two or three pods in three+ years of playing. Go figure. JC system is fine. If you want to whine about something, whine about getting rid of insurance. Firstly: Personal Attacks: Who the started calling who "lamers"? talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It was you* by the way who brought up the gate camp, since you can imply that I am posting because I loose my implants t gate camps, I can just as well imply that gate camps is ALL you do. Secondly: Yes you just go to prove my point, because you have the access to a JC that means you have less to loose than someone who does, because atleast you get to fly around in implants relevant to the ship you pilot. Thirdly: Talk about personal attacks, now you go from being just plain rude to rude and presumptuous. Where did I even say a word about T2 insurance? Talk about erectinga man of straw. If you cant make a rational argument do us all a favour and read the Forum rules. Incidentally JCs as they are now still suck, but thats just my opinion, just as its your opinion that they dont. So far you really have not come up with any reason other than it would make it easier for MORE people to Pvp. So thats the sum total of your argument? You firstly cant even tell if people have implants when they loose them in combat anyway, and I dont think thats going to change. Secondly I don't see why if I want to PvP i have to go through more grinding than I absolutely have too, for new ships and new modules yes, but not for 8.0 standings or wait until I get access to a someone's Cap ship clone vat bay, which most of the time is never around where you need it anyway. Oh about you loosing three pods in three years: CONGRATULATIONS! That makes you so much superior than the rest of us noob / carebears / lamers specially considering that three years ago there werent as much players as there are today, and not as many chances to PvP anyway, so you had an easier time because of a smoother learning curve. I hope that makes you feel better about yourself. Removable Implants and Money Sinks

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.22 06:24:00 - [91] /bump Flame on. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Shakuul Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:06:00 - [92] Or they could just change the cooldown on jump clones to 6 hours or something. Even if they don't...if you do pvp mostly on weekends, you have to JC in and out a couple times, so you lose maybe 4 hours of skill training. Boo hoo. JC not in the ideal location? Thats why you can have 5! The idea with destroyable implants is that it adds to the risk of combat...its a way you pay for the extra reward - being able to train SP faster. Through JCs, you can choose whether or not to accept this tradeoff. If you want the SP more, fly with your implants. Otherwise, use your damn JC. I wasn't aware that implants were a major money sink. I mean sure you drop a good chunk of ISK on them at the LP store, but i thought BPs, station eggs, POS structures, and that kind of thing were much bigger.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 15:29:00 - [93] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 23/05/2008 15:29:46 So... people who want to Pvp must pay not only in terms of implants, modules and ships, but also in terms of opportunity cost in loosing out on skill training time and having to keep jumping from one clone to another? Anyway this has all become somewhat of a moot issue with Factional Warfare..something that will turn EVE from Sandbox into theme park. People can finally take a whack at each other without having to run around half the galaxy looking for a fight and having to use JCs that generally are never there where you need em or worse are on cool down, and with the rewards for constantly Pvping in FW, they will be laughing off implants the same way you will now laugh off T1 frigate losses. FW will basically kill Alliance / Pirate / 0.0 Combat I think, because people wil find it far more convenient to stay in high sec and fight it out in the complexes. We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.23 16:19:00 - [94] Edited by: Destructor1792 on 23/05/2008 16:20:10 Ok, i like the idea of SIA's, but lets expand on it a bit: Skills DNA mutators - Allows the ability to extract an SIA from a corpse (+1 implant retrieval per lvl) This allows a maximum chance of retrieving 5 implants from an SIA @ lvl 5. Amarr mutator - Grants the ability to use DNA mutators on amarrians (5% increase in chance of success per lvl) Caldari mutator - see above Gallente mutator - see above Minmatar mutator - see above Mutator Vat - Allow the use of a Mutator Vat for extracting dna (+1 addition job per lvl & 1.2hr job time reduction)(standard time of 12hrs so reducing this to 6hrs & a max of 5 jobs with lvl 5) Modules Mutator Vat - One time use for extraction of implants from SIA's (requires mutator vat lvl 1, DNA mutators lvl 1) Example: You pod an amarr dude, scoop their corpse and head back to a station. You have the following trained up: DNA mutators lvl3 (chance to retrieve up to 3 implants) Amarr mutator lvl 4 (20% chance of actually getting a result) Mutator vat lvl 1 (one job going with 10% time reduction) so you get your mutator vat and the corpse, plug them into an invention job & wait for 10.8hrs. End of the job, you get a success: 1 x new SIA (DNA rewritten to you) 1 x snake alpha (plugged in) 2 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted So you now have a new SIA with 1 implant plugged in & 9 free slots to do with as you please. A failed job could look something like: 3 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted Unfortunately, you were unable to extract anything of use. Again, each job is tied to you so no chance of flogging SIA's off for a quick buck & this actually stop corpses from being the useless bio-mass they currently are. Time to go hunt some headaches tabs out.. drinking and flying are such fun but damn with the hangovers after ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.05.23 17:22:00 - [95] Simpler still, make implants manufactorable like it was intended, there's even a skill in the game for it. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 18:56:00 - [96] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Simpler still, make implants manufactorable like it was intended, there's even a skill in the game for it. If they did, then atleast it would make things completive and remove the caps...but will CCP do it? Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Redd Lenses Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. All the factional warfare stuff is in lowsec and in ships that really take advantage of pirate implants aren't allowed in. Besides that however, I still want these SIAs.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:49:00 - [98] Originally by: Destructor1792 Edited by: Destructor1792 on 23/05/2008 16:20:10 Ok, i like the idea of SIA's, but lets expand on it a bit: Skills DNA mutators - Allows the ability to extract an SIA from a corpse (+1 implant retrieval per lvl) This allows a maximum chance of retrieving 5 implants from an SIA @ lvl 5. Amarr mutator - Grants the ability to use DNA mutators on amarrians (5% increase in chance of success per lvl) Caldari mutator - see above Gallente mutator - see above Minmatar mutator - see above Mutator Vat - Allow the use of a Mutator Vat for extracting dna (+1 addition job per lvl & 1.2hr job time reduction)(standard time of 12hrs so reducing this to 6hrs & a max of 5 jobs with lvl 5) Modules Mutator Vat - One time use for extraction of implants from SIA's (requires mutator vat lvl 1, DNA mutators lvl 1) Example: You pod an amarr dude, scoop their corpse and head back to a station. You have the following trained up: DNA mutators lvl3 (chance to retrieve up to 3 implants) Amarr mutator lvl 4 (20% chance of actually getting a result) Mutator vat lvl 1 (one job going with 10% time reduction) so you get your mutator vat and the corpse, plug them into an invention job & wait for 10.8hrs. End of the job, you get a success: 1 x new SIA (DNA rewritten to you) 1 x snake alpha (plugged in) 2 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted So you now have a new SIA with 1 implant plugged in & 9 free slots to do with as you please. A failed job could look something like: 3 x slots failed to extract implants Unable to verify 7 slots - no extraction attempted Unfortunately, you were unable to extract anything of use. Again, each job is tied to you so no chance of flogging SIA's off for a quick buck & this actually stop corpses from being the useless bio-mass they currently are. Time to go hunt some headaches tabs out.. drinking and flying are such fun but damn with the hangovers after I missed this. It sounds interesting, but since you now have the ability to extract the implants, the money sinks will get reduced, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA somewhat. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:49:00 - [99] Originally by: Redd Lenses Originally by: Raven Timoshenko We can all kiss Alliance politics and warfare goodbye I think, those guys who seriously hunger after PvP action will find it much easier and convenient to just stay in high sec and be rewarded for PvP, as compared to the people who try and make a go of it in 0.0. For one thing the entry requirements will be drastically reduced. All the factional warfare stuff is in lowsec and in ships that really take advantage of pirate implants aren't allowed in. Besides that however, I still want these SIAs. Nice to see you back Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Redd Lenses Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:09:00 - [100] OK, just read through pages 2-4... What people don't seem to understand is that this boosts implant sales, creates an ISK sink, frees people to PVP more and still lets people get SP. a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? The *only* way this hurts sales is that it reduces losses of +5s. Pirate implants and +4s and below will still be lost during PVP. The only difference now is that you're losing implants that affect your current ship. How horrible is it to be fighting using snakes in a Blasterthron or Abaddon? Or having Slaves in an inty? b) The ISK sink. (Not killing implant sales) The SIAs would be an NPC item just like the implants. You could get them from LP stores or buy them from players but the better implants they can hold, the more they cost. As I said before, I don't think it's much of a sacrifice to pay 200m or so to have a meta 6 SIA that holds pirate implants or +5s on top of the cost of the implants. c) More PVP Because people now have the implants that help in their current situation, they're more likely to undock and go after situations they never would while... I don't know... flying with +5s in a battleship into 0.0. Then at the end of the day, you wait 30 minutes and swap back into +5s so you continue getting as many SP as possible. Even if CCP removes attribute implants to preserve SP (IE give everyone +5 for implants and +10 for learning skills permanently) I still like this idea for holding Hardwirings. This idea, while adding some management of implants, increases the fun of the game.

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.24 09:54:00 - [101] /bump Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:52:00 - [102] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Destructor1792 what i said I missed this. It sounds interesting, but since you now have the ability to extract the implants, the money sinks will get reduced, which would defeat the purpose of the SIA somewhat. You could easily make this into an isk sink by having the mutator vats cost anywhere from 50-500mill each. Prehaps even have different sized ones (e.g): Basic mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +2 implants) - 50mill Standard mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +3 implants) - 150mill Improved mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +4 implants) - 250mill Advanced mutator vat (ability to retrieve up to +5 implants) - 350mill Faction mutator vat (ability to retrieve faction implants & t2 varients) - 500mill to be able to attempt to extract an SIA from a corpse, you must also have a fresh one to run with the job, so it could look something like: Job 1: faction mutator vat - 500mill SIA - 150mill cost of job - 5mill you may get lucky and get a new SIA with a couple of snakes plugged in, however you've just spent just shy of 700mill isk. Not a bad isk sink eh ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.25 11:39:00 - [103] Again, not against it, so long as its chance based so, at best you are getting a SIA and some attached implants at a discount at best, nor will they be able to know what implants they are getting until they process the biomass. It will be more of a gamble then, for example spending 500million ISK only to find out that the SIA and implants combined arent worth even half as much. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.25 19:04:00 - [104] Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.25 20:01:00 - [105] Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a syou think it does, gievn that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONTpvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.25 22:09:00 - [106] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/05/2008 22:14:31 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a you think it does, given that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONT pvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. I did read it.... Using one bad game mechanic (jump clones) to justify bring in another much worse one doesn't work that well.... Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Destructor1792 Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.31 06:41:00 - [107] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/05/2008 22:14:31 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Originally by: Kerfira Nice idea. Let's take away all risk from the game so none of us will ever loose anything It'll also remove an important ISK/LP sink from the game, and'll basically just ensure that all people (as soon as they can afford them) will have a full set of +5 training when they're not in combat..... Jump clones are fine enough. You're basically talking about removing the risk from the risk/reward equation.... Stupid idea tbh.... Did you ever even read the arguments? or did you just decide to troll? If you had, you would have realized that the system does NOT remove the risks as much a you think it does, given that people use empty JCs nowadays anyway, or else they DONT pvp to begin with if they have to risk their learning implants. I did read it.... Using one bad game mechanic (jump clones) to justify bring in another much worse one doesn't work that well.... Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages 2 points here: 1. currently there is little to no risk in getting a majority of implants. grind a few missions, get a few LP's, purchase an implant, rinse & repeat. (this ideally need discussing in a sepearate thread so i'll not say anymore) 2. Jumpclones were a much needed introduction to the game. More so if the supercaps actually had the clone-vat bays fitted & enough space to hold ships (+spares) for each pod pilot. I sort of agree & disagree with them but again, this needs discussion in another thread with ways to improve/change it. maybe a dev response here would be in order.. would be nice to know what they think of this idea & whether to keep the post alive or let it die a quiet death Peace out ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.31 11:38:00 - [108] I for one plan on keeping it alive until I get a response. If the Devs say no, then shrug so be it. Removable Implants and Money Sinks
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.02 02:39:00 - [109] /bump *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
GermanNightHawk	Posted - 2008.06.02 18:50:00 - [110] I am all in for that! No time to way! Best idea since long time if ever read.

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.05 02:53:00 - [111] /bump *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Tuttomenui II kungfuhammers	Posted - 2008.06.05 11:44:00 - [112] Great Idea, Add me to your little list, and let it hence forth grow to tremendous size that can not be ignored, lol... Tuttomenui II
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2008.06.05 12:43:00 - [113] Originally by: Kerfira Your whole argument is about removing risk. It's not a complete removal, but it is significantly reducing it. Don't try to put it as something else.... Boiled down, you want to reduce the 24 hour jump-clone delay to 30 minutes...... Call is SIA or whatever, that is your aim.... Jump clones were a bad idea in themselves, but at least they carried with them 24 hours reduced skill training. Your system is mostly without disadvantages How about actually providing some compelling arguments instead of expecting us to take your word for it? I for one so far see this as increasing ISK sinks not decreasing them, having done a little analysis. Others have gone more in-depth into it in other posts. If you have a genuine reason why it won't work, say so. Otherwise the above just looks like a troll. Why for example is reducing skill training disadvantages a problem? What does it break in the game? How does it affect PvP, the prime motivating factor here? What risk does it remove? Any idiot with +5 implants isn't going to undock in a war situation with them in; either that or have the cash to replace them easily, fly what you can afford to lose etc. So far you've not backed up your claim with any real arguments. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.05 18:13:00 - [114] Thanks for keeping this alive guys *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.05 18:31:00 - [115] Edited by: Esmenet on 05/06/2008 18:31:58 Bad idea. Its just another jumpclone with 30 min cooldown that will reduce risk further. Would be great for me living in 0.0 as i would never risk my implants in combat and could keep my +5 in most of the time. But overall a bad idea for the game. In high sec/low sec you are practically immune to loosing implants if you know what you are doing anyway so no change for those too "afraid" too loose their implants. Quote: a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? It might give a small increase in short term but for long term it will hurt implant sales massively as it will be much more rare to actually get them blown up. The pirate implant sales would probably stay the same as you need to risk those anyway to get any use out of them. Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE?
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:33:00 - [116] Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 05/06/2008 18:31:58 Bad idea. Its just another jumpclone with 30 min cooldown that will reduce risk further. Would be great for me living in 0.0 as i would never risk my implants in combat and could keep my +5 in most of the time. But overall a bad idea for the game. In high sec/low sec you are practically immune to loosing implants if you know what you are doing anyway so no change for those too "afraid" too loose their implants. Quote: a) Boosting implant sales. Each person might now buy many more sets of implants that they have at the moment. Personally, I would want a set of +5s, a set of +3s, a set of Slaves, a set of Snakes, and a set of Talismans at each base of operations. How is this hurting implant sales? It might give a small increase in short term but for long term it will hurt implant sales massively as it will be much more rare to actually get them blown up. The pirate implant sales would probably stay the same as you need to risk those anyway to get any use out of them. Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE? You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? And if you living in 0.0 without your p+5 plugged in your at RISK ANYWAY. You can still loose your plugged in implants, the SIAs dont make you invulnerable. You then go on to say that who would use snakes to PvE anyway? So essentially YOU would not be wearing +5 implants in 0.0, but combat hardwiring. Pirate implanst WONT stay the same - if I have 5 JCs, and wont to be as effective with each of them, they would be scattered all across EVE rather than being clumped in one region and EACH of them would have Multiple SIAs stationed there - Learning, Snakes, Slaves whatever. So even assuming that you only use three kinds of implants sets and have five JC that means you will be buying 5x3 = 15 implant sets NOT including the SIA itself. Thats an EXPONENTIALLY larger money sink as compared today, where most people use an empty JC if they want to pvp. And as you said - who would want to pvp in +5 Implants? Surely then the best way to get more people Pvping is to give them more flexibility. Your statement abuot not loosing implants in low sec high sec - we want more people to come into 0.0 and risk thier ships - even a hardened Pvper would think twice about heading into combat with LEARNING implants in and no jump clone availble. By giving people more flexibility we INCREASE the opportunities to PvP and consequently increase the money sink in terms of ships, modules AND implants lost - mainly combat implants in this case. Since All implants are NPC made and sold anyway, people who mission grind to sell implants on the market will just now mainly grind for combat rather than learning implants. And since with the SIA most pvpers would want to have multiple sets, MArket demand for combat hardwiring GOES UP. Beyond this ALL implants are NPC regulated items, so it does not MATTER WHICH kind of set is being put on the market anyway - they are all more or less the same in value. *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:08:00 - [117] Edited by: Esmenet on 06/06/2008 09:14:58 Edited by: Esmenet on 06/06/2008 09:08:01 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? Yes it would be great as i could avoid risking my implants for fights. But stupid for the game. I would also be great if i could blow up titans with one shot of my gun but its not really a good idea for the game either. Understand? Quote: You can still loose your plugged in implants, the SIAs dont make you invulnerable. You then go on to say that who would use snakes to PvE anyway? So essentially YOU would not be wearing +5 implants in 0.0, but combat hardwiring. I cant afford snakes so they are out of the question for me. My +5 implants however would be invulnerable with that system. But for those rich guys with snakes nothing will change its just even easier for them to get maximum learning skill while still having the great combat advantage easily available at a very short notice. Perhaps you dont realise this but snakes are not +5 for a reason. Quote: Pirate implanst WONT stay the same - if I have 5 JCs, and wont to be as effective with each of them, they would be scattered all across EVE rather than being clumped in one region and EACH of them would have Multiple SIAs stationed there - Learning, Snakes, Slaves whatever. So even assuming that you only use three kinds of implants sets and have five JC that means you will be buying 5x3 = 15 implant sets NOT including the SIA itself. Lol you will never end up with 5 jumpclones with 3 different implantsets. And even if you did its just a shortterm increase in demand. What keeps the market running is getting those implants blown up. Quote: Thats an EXPONENTIALLY larger money sink as compared today, where most people use an empty JC if they want to pvp. Lol with a 24 hour cooldown you cant control that for long and so you either choose to stay in a empty clone most of the time with severe penalties on your learning or use whatever level of implants you can afford to keep going. Quote: And as you said - who would want to pvp in +5 Implants? Surely then the best way to get more people Pvping is to give them more flexibility. I have pvp'ed a lot in +5's. My empire pod is practically invulnerable anyway. There should be a limit to flexibility as it eliminates risk, eliminates the disadvantages of pirate implants and eliminates the disadvantages of jumpclones. In short there is a reason why jumpclones have a 24 hr cooldown. Quote: Your statement abuot not loosing implants in low sec high sec - we want more people to come into 0.0 and risk thier ships Your op states it would encourage people to try low sec pvp. Quote: By giving people more flexibility we INCREASE the opportunities to PvP and consequently increase the money sink in terms of ships, modules AND implants lost - mainly combat implants in this case. No you dont. If they cant risk +4 imps they wont risk a snake set. Quote: Since All implants are NPC made and sold anyway, people who mission grind to sell implants on the market will just now mainly grind for combat rather than learning implants. And since with the SIA most pvpers would want to have multiple sets, MArket demand for combat hardwiring GOES UP. Lol if they cant risk their +4-+5's why would they risk more expensive snakes and hardwirings.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:09:00 - [118] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:10:42 Originally by: Esmenet You whole statement is contradictory, on the one hand you say its a bad idea, but then you immediatly say it would be great for you if your living in 0.0? Yes it would be great as i could avoid risking my implants for fights. But stupid for the game. I would also be great if i could blow up titans with one shot of my gun but its not really a good idea for the game either. Understand? Your argument is first specious. Pvpers if they want to fight fight with combat implants if they can help it ANYWAY, and those that risk going into combat with the relevant implants are probably going to win against that go into combat without the relevant implants. This is no magical "I win" button. Originally by: Esmenet I cant afford snakes so they are out of the question for me. My +5 implants however would be invulnerable with that system. But for those rich guys with snakes nothing will change its just even easier for them to get maximum learning skill while still having the great combat advantage easily available at a very short notice. Perhaps you dont realise this but snakes are not +5 for a reason. Firstly those guys with learning implants either fight, get into a JC with combat implants, get into an empty JC or dont fight at all. This system removes the last disincentive from NO fighting. I know many pilots who say that if they have a choice between fighting with learning implants and NOT going into fights with the relevant implants they would rather wait out the JC timer. This REMOVES this issue, it measn more people Pvping then. And incidentally, why should a player be penalized for Pvping in terms of training? Pilots who participate in the most dangerous activity in EVE loose out on traiing time when the jump into combat implants?? WHY? I am putting my ships, modules and combat implants on the line and for this I must loose somewhere in the region of 24hrs worth of +5/4/3/2/1 training time? having just riske my ships, module and combat implants, i must wait 24hrs to jump back into a JC with learning implants, which is probably located in a place which would deter me from getting into combat for the NEXT 24hrs. What sense does this make? Originally by: Esmenet Lol you will never end up with 5 jumpclones with 3 different implantsets. And even if you did its just a shortterm increase in demand. What keeps the market running is getting those implants blown up. Again this makes no sense. People jump into an EMPTY JC anyway if they cant afford combat implants, or make a choice between fighting and not fighting. People who fight may loose thier combat implants MORE with this. All the current JC system does gives people disincentives from fighting, especially if they have learning implants. MORE fighting = MORE Implants lost. Except this time it will be those uber expensive combat implants. as YOU yourself said, why would anyone fight in +5s? *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.06 12:12:00 - [119] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:13:46 Originally by: Esmenet Lol with a 24 hour cooldown you cant control that for long and so you either choose to stay in a empty clone most of the time with severe penalties on your learning or use whatever level of implants you can afford to keep going. So..you agree with me??? Originally by: Esmenet I have pvp'ed a lot in +5's. My empire pod is practically invulnerable anyway. There should be a limit to flexibility as it eliminates risk, eliminates the disadvantages of pirate implants and eliminates the disadvantages of jumpclones. In short there is a reason why jumpclones have a 24 hr cooldown. 1) There are people who given a choice would rather pvp in combat implants or empty JCs. 2) YOu still have to risk your implants, only this time it will be your combat implants rather than your learning implants. - The difference in cost being the same. 3) Eliminating the disdvantage of the JCs is a GOOD thing, means more people would Pvp. Originally by: Esmenet Your op states it would encourage people to try low sec pvp. I meant low sec in general, not just 0.0. Originally by: Esmenet No you dont. If they cant risk +4 imps they wont risk a snake set. Yes, but they would risk a combat set, since thats what they are for ANYWAY. Who cares if they stop risking learning implants? Just means more combat implants will be blown up rather than learning implants. As you yourself why buy combat implants if you dont plan on using them for Pvp? Implants are NPC manufactured items anyway, so all your doing is shifting the emphasis from learning to combat implants. Originally by: Esmenet Lol if they cant risk their +4-+5's why would they risk more expensive snakes and hardwirings. Totally contradicts your previous post and again- Originally by: Esmenet Why the heck would you want a set of snakes for PVE? Why buy COMBAT implants NOW if you dont plan on using em?? *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.07 14:37:00 - [120] /bump. Let the hostilities continue. *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*

Cerina Natal	Posted - 2008.06.07 20:37:00 - [121] Originally by: Kusha'an This is a nifty idea. They'll never do it because it's a good idea and they didn't think of it. Thats really not a fair assumption. While the idear is good and sound i would like to point out that the general problem with implants relate to learning just like learning skills and advanced skills.... Basically the entire system revolving this implants (not hardwirring but the attribute boosters) is essentially flawed - And the solution above is sort of a "quick fix". Quick Fix Well yes it would fix a problem and it sounds like its quick to introduce but TBH the solution is basically a solution that would take so long to implement that CCP could basically put the same time into a new system that would fix all the current problems - A complete rewrite or rather remove learning skills and attribute booster implants.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.07 21:14:00 - [122] Edited by: Esmenet on 07/06/2008 21:17:21 Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:22:56 Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 06/06/2008 12:13:46 Originally by: Esmenet Lol with a 24 hour cooldown you cant control that for long and so you either choose to stay in a empty clone most of the time with severe penalties on your learning or use whatever level of implants you can afford to keep going. So..you agree with me??? No. The current system forces you to make a choice between risk and benefits. Yours wont as you know if you think about it, but i doubt you even try to do so. CCP knows this and thats why there is a 24 hr cooldown on jumpclones. Quote: Originally by: Esmenet Your op states it would encourage people to try low sec pvp. I meant low sec in general, not just 0.0. Low sec is 0.1-0.4 and the term generally dont include 0.0. In 0.1-0.4 your pod is practically invulnerable if you know what you are doing like i said a couple of times already. The main threat to pods comes from bubbles. Quote: Yes, but they would risk a combat set, since thats what they are for ANYWAY. Who cares if they stop risking learning implants? Just means more combat implants will be blown up rather than learning implants. As you yourself why buy combat implants if you dont plan on using them for Pvp? Implants are NPC manufactured items anyway, so all your doing is shifting the emphasis from learning to combat implants. No they wont as its the inherent value they dont want to risk. The ones that dont risk implants dont use combat implants either, they use empty clones. There is no insurance on implants and if you use combat imps or +5's their value will generally be many times the loss of a normal t2 fitted pvp ship. In other words there wont be a change in combat implant destruction. You can just keep most of the learnings safe without any disadvantages. And that is bad for the game.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.09 10:56:00 - [123] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 09/06/2008 11:00:58 Originally by: Esmenet No. The current system forces you to make a choice between risk and benefits. Yours wont as you know if you think about it, but i doubt you even try to do so. CCP knows this and thats why there is a 24 hr cooldown on jumpclones. So basically what your saying is that if I want to PvP, I should be penalized arbitrarily for the choice of Pvp. Wonderful. Originally by: Esmenet Low sec is 0.1-0.4 and the term generally dont include 0.0. In 0.1-0.4 your pod is practically invulnerable if you know what you are doing like i said a couple of times already. The main threat to pods comes from bubbles. Ok but this is nonsense. I have been in multiple wars and have been podded multiple times due to the fact that some ships like interceptors can target and scramble a ship in as little as a few seconds, you CANT warp away because the ingame transition from you ship being destroyed to your pod cause a delay depending on what you current ping rate is, I am plus 6hrs ahead of EVE time, and that about as much as two seconds delay, not counting ingame delay caused by the transition. NO matter how many times you spam the warp button, chances are that if the opponents have a ship with strong sensor resolution your going to die. No matter what you do. Originally by: Esmenet No they wont as its the inherent value they dont want to risk. The ones that dont risk implants dont use combat implants either, they use empty clones. There is no insurance on implants and if you use combat imps or +5's their value will generally be many times the loss of a normal t2 fitted pvp ship. In other words there wont be a change in combat implant destruction. You can just keep most of the learnings safe without any disadvantages. And that is bad for the game. So who says make implants invulnerable? where have I written that the SIA makes what ever implants that you fly with invulnerable? So what if learning implants DONT get destpyed in combat as long as people can then plug in their combat implants, head into battle and loose em? Its a NPC ITEM! It doesnt matter which implant you will be selling on the market from your mission grinding, it just means MORE implants will be destroyed in the process. And its truly fascinating as how you conveniently contradict your own arguments in the same breathe, on the one hand you say people DONT take risks but on the other hnd you say People DO take risks. All this talk about people having to Pvp with learning implants or choose not to pvp? That makes sense? I know die hard Pvpers who have more than once chosen not to Pvp merely because their combat implant JCs were on cool down and they had to choose between risking LEARNING implants or not pvping at all. This makes no sense because it means that Pvpers are penalized in terms of Time merely because they choose to pvp, as opposed to carebears who are always in their learning implants stacking up SP while Pvpers risk all.Essentially you get arbitarily punished merely for CHOOSING to Pvp, not for anything else. *War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center.*
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.12 06:00:00 - [124] Oh what the hell, Flame on!
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2008.06.12 13:06:00 - [125] Originally by: Esmenet The current system forces you to make a choice between risk and benefits. How is this good for PvP? We've just spent a day in downtime for a system designed to reduce this exact choice, namely factional warfare. If you want the more risk-averse players into PvP, give them reduced risk for a suitable cost. You can't tell people how to play, but you can give them opportunities. Originally by: Esmenet CCP knows this and thats why there is a 24 hr cooldown on jumpclones. You don't know that. They haven't said that publicly; don't put words in their mouth. Originally by: Esmenet In other words there wont be a change in combat implant destruction. You can just keep most of the learnings safe without any disadvantages. And that is bad for the game. Anyone who undocks with +5s in a combat zone that they can't easily afford to replace is an idiot. There is no justifiable reason why you'd keep a set in when you can jump clone, beyond stupidity. A 24-hour loss in skillpoints, well boohoo, the only thing that suffers is PvP. Fit an inexpensive set of +2s for the duration and you have hardly any appreciable loss for a single day. In other words, this proposed system merely changes risk-averse behaviour (not risking +5s) to allow for more PvP - a Good Thing TM. You are also alleging that the market for implants will drop - this is nonsense and counteracts your own argument. You yourself are claiming no change in combat implant expenditure therefore no effect on the market for those. The +5 learning implant market is already high. It costs 65M plus LP to get a +5 implant. Typical prices for them are 100M. Given the number of idiots who view LP as free, this implies either a lack of demand or a lack of supply. Looking at EVE-central, there are a total of 180ish Ocular Filter - Improved for sale in the entire galaxy, and only 40 have sold in the past few months! This therefore suggests a certain lack of movement in the market as it stands anyway, so the argument that suddenly it will move to a standstill seems rather hyperbolic. Finally - even if your entire argument is true, and I don't think it is, how is it bad for the game? What aspect? Lets' have some structured argument, rather than opinion.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:17:00 - [126] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.17 02:58:00 - [127] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:04:00 - [128] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.22 03:28:00 - [129] .bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:58:00 - [130] /bump

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:41:00 - [131] /bump
Gaelenus Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.06.29 16:54:00 - [132] Again thats another very good idea i have to say, would be good to be able to get my learning implants out of harms way when i'm going to go fight.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.06.29 19:03:00 - [133] I thought about this idea for a while, and yes, I agree would be nice, and not really exploitable since the SIA (the device that holds the implants) could not be moved from one character to another, but allow a switching for particular roles at a desired time. I support this.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.02 05:45:00 - [134] /bump
Acidictadpole ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.07.02 06:09:00 - [135] It may create some money sinks, but it also gets rid of them. This allows players who would actually use their implants in some cases, to remove them for the other cases and thus prevent losing them (and having to buy another set). The people who use implants probably outweigh the people who don't and the people who use them for pvp gain also probably outweigh the people who don't.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.02 06:33:00 - [136] Originally by: Acidictadpole It may create some money sinks, but it also gets rid of them. This allows players who would actually use their implants in some cases, to remove them for the other cases and thus prevent losing them (and having to buy another set). The people who use implants probably outweigh the people who don't and the people who use them for pvp gain also probably outweigh the people who don't. Well consider that those pilots who DONT want to loose implants jump into an empty JC anyway, it makes little difference. For those that use combat implants, they don't have to waste time with the 24hr cool down on JCs or have to jump to them in some inconvenient location which is what generally happens. since implants be they learning or combat are NPC made items, the market demand will go up simply because it becomes more convenient to use your combat implants. People who make money grinding for LP to buy implants to sell will simply begin grinding for combat implants instead of learning implants. Also since it becomes more easier for people to get into vp without the hassle of JCs or sacrificing learning implants when they can be using combat implants or no implants ( as many do now) the amount of combat INCREASES, which means more ships and modules destroyed and hence MORE demand for minerals, ships and modules. Remember Implants cannot be manufactured to begin with, and with this system you can have multiple implants for multiple JCs, hence increasing the money sink there too. How many times have players chosen not to pvp merely because they a) do not have access to a JC, or the JC is located too far way. b) Have learning implants and the JC is on cool down or c have combat implants which are off the wrong type at hand?
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:51:00 - [137] /bump
kyoukoku Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:54:00 - [138] /signage. I would definitely sink a lot of ISK into having a few sets of these puppies and would most definitely be more inclined to indulge in a lot more PvP if this were to be implemented. I also like Destructor1792's idea of having additional skills and gear to enable you to (try to) extract SIA's & implant's from corpses. I can't see how any of this would cause the demand for implants to fall. It would be completely the opposite as folks would buy more simply because they can swap them around, as a set, at will. we really need CCP to have a look at this idea and comment. Ninja Salvaging ain't stealing from desusig.crumplecorn.com
Mithrandere	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:45:00 - [139] YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.09 05:41:00 - [140] /bump

Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.14 05:40:00 - [141] /bump
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.07.14 07:03:00 - [142] I'd rather see that they release implant blueprints so we can have more of them instead of cowering behind them and using them as the 'if only' opt out excuse. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.19 02:51:00 - [143] /bump
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2008.07.19 12:14:00 - [144] /me votes for the idea Alternative to the SIA trophy idea: - SIA got a % change to be destroyed when podded (like normal fitting items) - the SIA is still locked to the original owner - give the winner the possibility to resell the collected SIA to the victim. - Maybe this kind of reselling can be used to bait the victim into unsecure space again.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:37:00 - [145] /bump
kyoukoku	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:49:00 - [146] free bumpage
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.25 05:44:00 - [147] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:41:00 - [148] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.08.02 10:56:00 - [149] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.08.05 07:26:00 - [150] /bump

Raven Timoshenko Fighting While Intoxicated	Posted - 2008.08.07 06:48:00 - [151] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Fighting While Intoxicated	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:14:00 - [152] Probably snow ball's chance in hell to get a dev response, but hey! Cant hurt to try can it? /bump
Raven Timoshenko Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:47:00 - [153] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.12 15:37:00 - [154] /bump
Wayward Hero Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.09.12 17:30:00 - [155] I still think it is a good idea \o Raven ___________________________________________ The Forgotten Children of EVE


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