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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.13 12:47:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
I lol'd at this one. Impressive quality indeed. 
Maybe try reading fewer books on programming languages and pick one up on the english language. If you're going to call someone a moron, at the very least don't sound like a moron yourself when you say it. Could have been worse I suppose... at least you spelled moron correctly.
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Neth'Rae
Gallente
Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:39:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
He simply meant to write "I am your moron.".. because he's your Loyal Servant after all :P
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
jason hill
Caldari
Nightmare Holdings
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:43:00 -
[153]
hmmm im just waiting for sephra to put in some "one world government ...they are all out to get us " paranoid delusional post.
but one thing does strike me . surely CCP already have this information with regards to the amount of peeps using classic eve then those useing the premium content... or am I still hung over from last night .
destroy everything you touch |
Scilent Enigma
Minmatar
Vae Victis Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:50:00 -
[154]
Ok.. seriously, if you are paranoid about what information that is snatched from your computer by the EVE client, just install http://www.wireshark.org/ and have it running with a "host you.rip.add.res" filter while you log in. That way you get a full detail about all the information packages that are transmitted to and from your computer.
As for the whole data mining turn in CCP, I trust CCP enough to take their word for that they are using it only for better QA and more streamlined graphics content. Though personally I think they could have handled this better (and saved themselves the headache) by making it optional.
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J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 14:16:00 -
[155]
Slippery slop is a logical fallacy.
"If you got nothing to hide then what are you worried about?" is another one.
The thing is, this information is already being sent to them by your compies, they are just now keeping track of it. Nothing you have "hidden" is being sent to them.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Globaltech Industries
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 14:19:00 -
[156]
there is nothing you can do about it
when you sign up to this game there is a statment in the EULA ... which you obviously didnt read saying infact stating that they can do this
it to make the game better like to see how many people run trinity or what ever so thatthey know for ambulation that they might need a non trinity version or something, how mnay people use DX 10
stop being a fool you scaremongering child  
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Bagdon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:35:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
No, they would rate a 10% RANDOM sample of a total population as a very accurate representation. A 10% response rate on a survey (which would be in this case) is completely useless.
The reason why movies suck, music on the radio sucks, TV sucks, etc. is because the only people who agree to be sampled are either exhibitionists or idiots (considering the highly intrusive nature of the surveys) which gives you a huge bias in the surveys. Would you discuss your sexual life, disease history and toilet habits for a cookie? No? Neither would I, but that's the sort of people who answer those surveys.
And regarding the topic. At work we collect the User-Agent strings of all our visitors. This allowed us (the developers at the place) to make a web designer shut up and let us use Firefox and IE for development instead of Safari (less than 1%) which he was trying to force us to use because he's a Mac weenie. If CCP can do something like that, I'm all for it. Quality is good, and for quality you need information of where you should allocate your resources.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.14 02:05:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Thorradin
The EULA already states that CCP may collect data from you:
D. Software Updates
CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.
And that's the end of the argument. Everyone who has spent too much time with "The Matrix", "A Scanner Darkly" and "1984" can go away.
If you EULA cheerleaders think that whatever the EULA says is the law and the end of all arguments, perhaps you should tell CCP to put something like "... and the right to delete vital system files from your computer" in the EULA ...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:14:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 13/04/2008 10:25:33
You can make all the arguments in the world why we should trust CCP to be the worlds purest rosy-smelling company, but the fact is that some of us don't!
I haven't got a beef with them getting info about graphics card. It's a non-topic really since everyone can see the usefulness of that.
What I'm worried about is what they'll attach to the list of what they collect NEXT (without telling)! There's all kind of lucrative data on a PC that any marketing department would like their hands on. Browser history... Other installed software... etc. etc.
You may trust CCP's marketing department to be goody-goody people not wishing to do any harm, but when all is said and done, they're there to make money, not to ensure your privacy. As long as that is their priority list, they're not trustworthy.
What's the big problem in letting those of us who don't trust them opt out? Hell, even make the option 'On' by default is no problem as long as we get the option.
And if CCP crosses that line you think people wouldn't come across it and there'd be hell to pay like with the Sony Rootkits? I doubt many companies are going to want to be the one to cross the line into mas invasion of its customers.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:20:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
He simply meant to write "I am your moron.".. because he's your Loyal Servant after all :P
You know, nitpicking someone's grammar on an international forum gives you a fairly good chance of coming out the fool if you're bashing someone whose native language isn't english.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:42:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Thorradin
You know, nitpicking someone's grammar on an international forum gives you a fairly good chance of coming out the fool if you're bashing someone whose native language isn't english.
Even i would do this. My native language isn't exactly english, but people who confuse "your" and "you're", or "then" and "than" give me a headache while reading, too. 
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Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:01:00 -
[162]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him. 
Personally, I don't mind that you know what's connecting to your server. It's the fact that your logging and storing personal information for which I cannot personally guarantee the security of that information.
CCP has had database compromises in the past and from an engineering standpoint no system is 100% secure. If it can be made it can be unmade. Fortunately the data that CCP is mining in this instance is of little use but it's the principle of the matter. CCP should fully disclose the information they are "storing" from our systems and do it in such a manor as it can't be tracked to an individual user.
If CCP wishes to take this situation lightly then why the **** should anyone trust them with their CC information? Lets see some policy consistency.
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**** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:07:00 -
[163]
Quote:
CCP should fully disclose the information they are "storing" from our systems and do it in such a manor as it can't be tracked to an individual user.
Here's a better idea. Lock your system down properly. But to be honest, the only way to do that really is to not connect it to the Internet.
But seriously, if there's so much info on your computer you "don't want CCP knowing about" then lock it down. Just don't complain when you can't run 99% of programs anymore.
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Aria Stane
Minmatar
Madar Kheyl tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:50:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
If you EULA cheerleaders think that whatever the EULA says is the law and the end of all arguments, perhaps you should tell CCP to put something like "... and the right to delete vital system files from your computer" in the EULA ...
They do, as does just about every other company that publishes software of any kind whatsoever. In CCP's case...
Originally by: CCP
DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES
In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.
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Kaaze Meriivaas
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Posted - 2008.04.14 05:57:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Aria Stane
They do, as does just about every other company that publishes software of any kind whatsoever. In CCP's case...
paging that dude who summed up why indemnity clauses are nonsense (it was something like "you can't indemnify someone for committing an illegal act or causing you harm") the last time this conversation reared its head.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:02:00 -
[166]
Quote:
paging that dude who summed up why indemnity clauses are nonsense (it was something like "you can't indemnify someone for committing an illegal act or causing you harm") the last time this conversation reared its head.
And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
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Kaaze Meriivaas
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:16:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
while you're in their, google up "consumer privacy" and see if you can follow a link or two. Wikipedia's got a good article on it.
anyway, they're not asking for information, they're taking it, and if it violates local or national law in the jurisdiction of the person who's running the client software, ding ding ding we have a winner. By winner I mean crime. And you can't indemnify a person or a company from any act which would be a crime where you live.
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:57:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Kaaze Meriivaas
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
while you're in their, google up "consumer privacy" and see if you can follow a link or two. Wikipedia's got a good article on it.
anyway, they're not asking for information, they're taking it, and if it violates local or national law in the jurisdiction of the person who's running the client software, ding ding ding we have a winner. By winner I mean crime. And you can't indemnify a person or a company from any act which would be a crime where you live.
I'm so happy I wasn't drinking anything when I read this, else I'd need a new screen and keyboard.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:36:00 -
[169]
It's only possibly illegal if they save your identity together with your graphics card information. If it's a simple statistic that doesn't connect to the individual, there's no way your privacy is being infringed on as you as a person are not part of the collected data.
That CCP is adding means to gather data on how EvE works out on individual computers is a very good idea for quality insurance. They usually only can test out EvE on a limited amount of computers themselves, which may cause some more obscure combinations of hard and software to fail. Now they add a means to include information from a wide variety of computer setups into their QA process, which will allow them to resolve issues that some people have with eve.
If you don't want to assist CCP with their QA, I'm afraid, you'll have to cancel your account(s).
--------
Ideas for:
Mining
Clouds
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