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Rabid Rich
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:29:00 -
[1]
can we get the self-destruct timer to scale with the signature radius of a ship please i.e. make it longer for capitals.
cause it is damn silly when a carrier pilot that has royally screwed the pooch(gone out solo and got caught) can wait until after his tank has broken and then still have time to self-destruct before his remaining armour and structure HP is chewed through, denying his victorious opponents any cargo/loot/killmail even.
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Calyce
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:30:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Rabid Rich can we get the self-destruct timer to scale with the signature radius of a ship please i.e. make it longer for capitals.
cause it is damn silly when a carrier pilot that has royally screwed the pooch(gone out solo and got caught) can wait until after his tank has broken and then still have time to self-destruct before his remaining armour and structure HP is chewed through, denying his victorious opponents any cargo/loot/killmail even.
I fail to see the problem here.. That is sorta what "self destruct" is all about... denying the loot to the enemy
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Julia Newmatar
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:31:00 -
[3]
Why?
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Rabid Rich
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:45:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rabid Rich on 15/04/2008 16:46:46 not true. self destruct is not there to deny the loot to the enemy AFTER they have broken you. if you want to deny loot to the enemy it should be at the cost of having to initiate self-destruct before they have won the fight.
i don't expect PvE'rs to agree, but PvP is a legitimate way of earning rewards in this game. to outplay someone in a highly capable ship because they made poor tactical deciscions, and organise enough dps together to actually kill the thing after you have trapped it, and then still have them self-destruct with the sole intention of denying you the hardwon killmail and loot only once they have seen they have absolutely no chance of a reprieve....that is bad gameplay design.
by all means initiate self destruct in your carrier the very moment a lone interceptor tackles you... but the upside/downside balance to that particular choice is not generally worth it.
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Mrmuttley
Amarr Apocalypse Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:55:00 -
[5]
To be fair here if someone wants to selfdestruct a 1B+ isk ship then seeing as they paid for it in the first place they can do with it as they wish.
I would say losing a ship like that is punishment enough for their stupidity . |
Rabid Rich
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:27:00 -
[6]
lets try the shoe on the other foot shall we carebears?
how would you feel if you worked your way through a level 4 mission and then the boss rat at the end selfdestructed just before you get to him thus making it impossible to complete the mission? oh and all your collected loot and salvage was erased too....
cause that is what it is like for a pvper gang that has an enemy carrier self destruct as it goes into low structure
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mrmuttley To be fair here if someone wants to selfdestruct a 1B+ isk ship then seeing as they paid for it in the first place they can do with it as they wish.
I would say losing a ship like that is punishment enough for their stupidity
no its not, you dont get the simple fact that the ship is on grid, undocked, you shouldn't be able to remove, this is like a logoffski and should be changed
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Aarin Wrath
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:43:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aarin Wrath on 15/04/2008 17:44:00 Uhh how did this become a PVP vs PVE argument? That came out of left field ... you have some issue against PVE players perhaps?
As for your original point, so you won the battle, killed a cap ship no less, and in the pilot in dying moments gave you the finger by self destructing. No kill mail or loot.
You still won, your just taking a suck because he screwed you out of a kill mail.
Welcome to EVE ...
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/04/2008 18:40:52 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/04/2008 18:40:03
Originally by: Aarin Wrath
As for your original point, so you won the battle, killed a cap ship no less, and in the pilot in dying moments gave you the finger by self destructing. No kill mail or loot.
I so wish L4 mission rats, belt rats and stuff self-destruct and you don't get bounty, loot and sec increases. You still won, right?
I mean, seriously. There are people who, you know, make a living off PvP. If anything, ships need to drop more loot, not have a 'make loot disappear' button. I won't even talk about insurance.
Originally by: Mrmuttley To be fair here if someone wants to selfdestruct a 1B+ isk ship then seeing as they paid for it in the first place they can do with it as they wish.
I would say losing a ship like that is punishment enough for their stupidity
Marauders and faction battleships often the same or even more (sometimes 2-3 times more) and don't get this option.
In fact, if I have a Sleipnir with T2 rigs, Estamel gear and all, do I get to self-destruct instantly, because it's expensive? 1B is not all that much. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Jaden Icer
Gallente Icerian Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:49:00 -
[10]
Your logic is flawed:
I run level 4s to make money
You PvP to cost people ships. The person having the ability to self destruct still costs them the ship, they just deny you the reward.
You still attained your primary goal.
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Velox Idolon
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:49:00 -
[11]
self-destruct is the ultimate means of denying an enemy loot, the situation that you describe in the OP is exactly that which self-destruction is meant for, when the outcome is inevitable and the only thing you can salvage from the situation is your pride (as the self-destructer).
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stinger7
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: stinger7 on 15/04/2008 18:58:31
The simple answer is for the self destruct to be stopped if the ship is taking damage. But it would remove a players right to deny loot for his destroyers and im sure ppl will have issue with that.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:01:00 -
[13]
the arguement can go either way on this one, tbh.
Revisiting the self-destruct timer may not be a bad idea, and increasing it slightly for capital ships. Not too much tho, so that it never works, but enough that they cannot wait to the very last moment as they hit struct and still get to self destruct.
If they want to self destruct...fine. Make them start the count down while the tank hasnt been broken yet.
We dont need more reasons to blob on capital kills.
Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jaden Icer Your logic is flawed:
I run level 4s to make money
You PvP to cost people ships.
No, I PvP to make money. Whatever gave you the idea that I PvP to cost people ships?
Talk about flawed logic.... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:51:00 -
[15]
I don't see a problem with self destruct. It is an alternative way to die.
In fact, I'd advocate a change that would make self destruction work like a mini DDD / smartbomb - where the damage and radius of explosion is proportional to size of the ship. (disabled in high sec)
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:06:00 -
[16]
I agree with the OP. Its the same reason they put 2min timer in the first place. At one point in time, SD was instant. And the moment you got caught and knew your ship was going down, you could activate it to deny the pirate/enemy of any loot. This is the same thing, only in a ship you can't kill fast enough during smaller scale fights.
SD is a countermeasure for someone pinning you, and not letting you go, but not killing you either. It isn't a tool to deny people loot drops just because you were stupid and got caught. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/ |
Chomapuraku
Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:14:00 -
[17]
so what? if you pvp for fun, the loot is just a bonus. you carebear for isk, suit up a ship, and have at it. so you don't get a killmail or loot, but you still get a fight
think about a mothership pilot self-destructing all those officer hardeners, smartbombs, and other juicy loot.. i'm perverse enough to get a kick out of that. you may have won the fight, but let's see you sell that e-peen on contract in jita...
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 15/04/2008 21:20:54 I have no experience with this but was chatting with someone who has extensive experience in chasing carriers. He said they will put in (say) 75% damage potential of all their ships into the carrier if they have it dead to rights. Takes a little longer and of course we presume this is still enough to get past the tank. Then, and this is a judgment call, they turn on the rest of the damage to 100%. The carrier pilot may misjudge the speed they are dying at and they can get him to his pod before he knows what hit him.
Granted (and the guy admitted this) this tactic is open to a lot of judgment on the part of the attackers depending on circumstances (sometimes help might be incoming and the carrier needs to die ASAP one way or another) but he suggested he had some success with it. Note he was complaining about what you are when we talked about it so he would agree with you and sounds bogus to me too FWIW.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 15/04/2008 22:04:08
It is always fun seeing the PvPers trying to pin other PvPers behavior to carebears.
Carebears self destruct the ship - NO, most carebear don't care about the killmail so don't care about selfdestructing instead of getting a killmail loss. Those doing that are mostly PvPers that fear to ruin the precious killboard where they register only wins.
BTW, Branko, why your target must care how you make your isk?
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Einar Lightfingers
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.04.16 00:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aarin Wrath Edited by: Aarin Wrath on 15/04/2008 17:44:00 Uhh how did this become a PVP vs PVE argument? That came out of left field ... you have some issue against PVE players perhaps?
As for your original point, so you won the battle, killed a cap ship no less, and in the pilot in dying moments gave you the finger by self destructing. No kill mail or loot.
You still won, your just taking a suck because he screwed you out of a kill mail.
Welcome to EVE ...
Actually, it didn't, considering the ones making the "Why?" and "We're denying the pirates any loot etc." are the ones who are on the other end of the spectrum. I.e. PvE.
We're pirates, of COURSE we have issues with carebears.
It's about the amount of time it took to get a sizeable enough gang to break his tank, we offered a ransom and he said he had 2 mil. But, that's just a specific event... It's not about the killmail. In fact, I'd trade the thing for what he had inside, because I'm in this for the money... not the killmail, nor the explosions. Those are just perks.
I win when I collect the loot. _______________________ BEES..... we blow stuff up
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Msgerbs
Gallente White Moon Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.16 01:25:00 -
[21]
The obvious solution seems to be to just make Self Destruct drop loot...
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.16 01:29:00 -
[22]
Last time I killed a cap ship he died in about 15 seconds, bring more firepower TBH.
Also does it really deny loot ? If so that's genius, I always figured that it was the same as getting blown up only quicker.
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Einar Lightfingers
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.04.16 01:45:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Einar Lightfingers on 16/04/2008 01:46:50
Originally by: Lord Fitz Last time I killed a cap ship he died in about 15 seconds, bring more firepower TBH.
Also does it really deny loot ? If so that's genius, I always figured that it was the same as getting blown up only quicker.
Were you perhaps using dreads? Because that's the only way you could have REMOTELY done that in 15 seconds. And what was the number of the blob?
_______________________ BEES..... we blow stuff up
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.16 01:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Einar Lightfingers Were you perhaps using dreads? Because that's the only way you could have REMOTELY done that in 15 seconds. And what was the number of the blob?
Yes, about 10. Fool was camping a gate in a carrier .
I dunno, I don't think a longer self destruct for carriers/dreads would be the end of the world. Maybe a period where it's irreversible.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.16 02:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
BTW, Branko, why your target must care how you make your isk?
Why should I have to care if he wants to drop loot or not?
Particularly after he allowed himself to get tackled at a location where he's vunerable. He kindof already made the choice... |
Einar Lightfingers
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.04.16 02:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Venkul Mul
BTW, Branko, why your target must care how you make your isk?
Why should I have to care if he wants to drop loot or not?
Particularly after he allowed himself to get tackled at a location where he's vunerable. He kindof already made the choice...
QFT |
Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.16 02:44:00 -
[27]
make self-destructing ships drop loot. Problem solved.
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Hettar
Caldari C.R.I.M.E
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Posted - 2008.04.16 04:29:00 -
[28]
some ppl just shouldnt be able to post on forums, like the dude that says a missioner only mission runs for money and the pvp'er only kills for the satisfactionof the kill....
errr wrong....
piracy is a legitiment trade in this game and i alot of cases killing the ships is the primary money maker for that pilot.
when loot is removed by the victim, or the loot is stolen, it means that the pvper put a expencive ship on the line the for nothing and would remove one of the best things that makes eve so unique.
the way to solve this problem however with capital ships selfdestructing is making it so there is no insurance pay out when doing so, and when i say none i mean not even basic and i mean on every ship.
if you want the insurance so badly off a ship there are plenty of ways to get it killed and the dumbass piots that caught with there pants down can get the spanking they deserve.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.16 05:35:00 -
[29]
uggh
time to go start a threadnaught about self destructing and insurance payout
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Ragoul Gurmok
EVEREADY
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Posted - 2008.04.16 05:59:00 -
[30]
Just make self destruction only for pods :P
Because you wouldnt really put a high powered explosive device on something you want to survive in coz it would explode during combat even if you were winning.
Remove selfdestruct for everythig but pods.
and btw remove trash from the right click menu for all but rookie ships and civ gear its annoying as hell being half asleep and trashing something useful...... Freightering Service |
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