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Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.04.22 01:46:00 -
[91]
And here I was thinking PvP was all about destroying someone else's ship. If they self destruct, then mission accomplished and I saved some ammo. I don't know what all the crying is about. Unless of course you only PvP to show off your killmails in a vain attempt to make yourself more important in the internet spaceship community?
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Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person.
How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.04.22 07:56:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Chribba
SD should do equal damage as your current value of shield+armor+hull, all modules destroyed. However during the SD time all your modules will offline, unable to warp, unable to move. Basicly just sitting there for the duration.
Attackers will then either have the choice of trying to go for the kill within the timer, or flee/move out of range until the ship goes boom - and you shouldn't be able to cancel the SD once initiated.
Insurance... undecided on that point, but maybe more realistic if you wouldn't get paid as it's basicly insurance fraud doing it yourself to get the money lol
SIGNED !!! |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:09:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/04/2008 11:10:40
Originally by: Sinder Ohm
Originally by: Chribba
SD should do equal damage as your current value of shield+armor+hull, all modules destroyed. However during the SD time all your modules will offline, unable to warp, unable to move. Basicly just sitting there for the duration.
Attackers will then either have the choice of trying to go for the kill within the timer, or flee/move out of range until the ship goes boom - and you shouldn't be able to cancel the SD once initiated.
Insurance... undecided on that point, but maybe more realistic if you wouldn't get paid as it's basicly insurance fraud doing it yourself to get the money lol
SIGNED !!!
Buy BS/BC, fit a ultra-plated/extended/reinforced bulkheads setup.
Jita 4-4 station exit.
Trigger self-destruct.
???
Profit.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:11:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Caleese
And here I was thinking PvP was all about destroying someone else's ship.
For me and many others, PvP is all about making money off killing people's ships, actually.
So, you thought wrong.
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Endless Subversion
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.04.22 14:00:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 22/04/2008 14:00:59
I hate eve-o. It just ate my post.
There is an extensive thread on this subject already, link in my sig. Let me summarize:
1) There is currently no reason NOT to self destruct. It doesn't influence your ship's performance in anyway and can be turned off whenever you choose.
2) It penalizes low dps gangs, solo ships, ewar ships and cap warfare ships, all of which often have to wait out cap charges, beat through massive buffers or slowly dps through a passive shield tank that can't quite hold up to them.
3) It contributes to the problem of bigger ships always being better. All ships are supposed to have roles where they are useful. (pilgrim for example is really screwed by self destructing)
4) No insurance payout for self-destructs is a goos tart but doesn't address tech II/faction ships where the insurance payout isn't really a favtor.
Self Destruct & LogOffs |
Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:21:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Rabid Rich
whine
The very purpose of self destruction is to deprive attackers of the ship and it's contents.
stfu
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Nivesi
Amarr
Scrumpy men
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:31:00 -
[97]
Tsk, tsk, people with no knowledge of history.
Scuttling ships to deny them to the enemy is common practice throughout history.
Armies on the retreat used to adopt "scorched Earth" polies to deny advancing troops supplies.
Most famous scuttling being the Battleship Admiral Graf Spee, scuttled by the Germans.
They thought they were going to lose a Naval battle by being out gunned but in actuality they were only facing 2 Cruisers.
For those that need info, Google "Battle of the River Plate".
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Endless Subversion
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:22:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 22/04/2008 19:22:47
Originally by: Nivesi
Tsk, tsk, people with no knowledge of history.
Scuttling ships to deny them to the enemy is common practice throughout history.
Armies on the retreat used to adopt "scorched Earth" polies to deny advancing troops supplies.
Most famous scuttling being the Battleship Admiral Graf Spee, scuttled by the Germans.
They thought they were going to lose a Naval battle by being out gunned but in actuality they were only facing 2 Cruisers.
For those that need info, Google "Battle of the River Plate".
Stop stroking your epeen. Cool, you read wikipedia and can google things, we're all suitably impressed. Stop wasting our time with your roleplay rubbish and address the imblance of the situation. We're playing an online spacehip game. Quality of play is what's important and balance directly influneces that.
If you think self-destructing should continue to exist in some for, offer some suggestions that make it a balanced game mechanic. Useless historical ancetodes just make you look like a chode.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.27 21:53:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Nivesi
Tsk, tsk, people with no knowledge of history.
Scuttling ships to deny them to the enemy is common practice throughout history.
Armies on the retreat used to adopt "scorched Earth" polies to deny advancing troops supplies.
Most famous scuttling being the Battleship Admiral Graf Spee, scuttled by the Germans.
They thought they were going to lose a Naval battle by being out gunned but in actuality they were only facing 2 Cruisers.
For those that need info, Google "Battle of the River Plate".
Actually, you are the one with no knowledge of history.
Scuttling didn't happen in combat, it happened before combat. Ships weren't scuttled at sea with the enemy shooting at them, they were scuttled in port/beached on shore/etc where the crew could get out. It took time to ensure the complete destruction of all war material in a non -recoverable manner. Simply knocking a hole in the bottom wouldn't do it. Cannons had to be spiked, instruments smashed, code books eaten/destroyed, etc.
There simply wasn't time to evacuate the crew/necessary equipment and then scuttle the ship when in a combat situation, so people didn't do it.
Likewise, in EVE, self destructing should not (and is not except in the case of cap ships) something you do at the very end of a battle when it's obvious you lost. It should be a lengthy process that you have to commit too before the battle.
If the reasoning you give holds, there'd be no reason for a self destruct timer at all. That there is indicates CCP didn't want people to just blow up everything at the last possible second and deny the victor the spoils - however, they didn't account for ever increasing ship HP.
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San Rintu
Asshats and Alcoholics
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 22:30:00 -
[100]
Fake Killmail, Post that the pilot self destructed. Remove points from the board for the kill. Not that hard to do, everyone is happy.
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Greenbolt
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.05.27 22:56:00 -
[101]
I never want to hear about carebear tears again.
Whats that old saying?
(Adapt or move on)..or (can I have your stuff?) I forget which.
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Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:06:00 -
[102]
Originally by: San Rintu
Fake Killmail, Post that the pilot self destructed. Remove points from the board for the kill. Not that hard to do, everyone is happy.
I'm pretty sure the focus of this thread is on the loot, not the killmails.
I think the timer should scale with your ship class:
pod: 2 min
frigate: 1 min
cruiser: 1.5 min
battleship: 2 min
carrier/dread/frieghter: 5 min
mothership/titan: 10 min
Larger ships then take longer to self distruct.
Also, insurance should not be removed for self destructing. Remember, self distruct primarily exists so you can get out of situations where enemies are pinning you down but not killing you. If insurance was removed for self distructing it opens the door for people to grief you, and attempt to deny you the insurance for your ship.
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Lunch Money
Teylas Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:57:00 -
[103]
CCP should change way the insurance works,
SELF DESTRUCT = 0 isk insurance!!!
:)
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.28 04:44:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Lunch Money
CCP should change way the insurance works,
SELF DESTRUCT = 0 isk insurance!!!
:)
so what happens if someone or a group of people double webs and warp scrams your mining ship in lowsec, and refuses to kill you?
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AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.05.28 11:50:00 -
[105]
In RL (if we could fly in space like we do in Eve), anyone would self destruct his ship if he knows he's going down, mostly to deny his enemy a part of his technology (loot) and important intel (ship logs and so), but I don't think any real ship would carry bombs onboard for the purpose to self-destruct the ship. It would prolly be some kind of reactor melt down.
The idea:
Make self-destruct use cap (let's say 25% of your cap, the energy used to overloead your reactor). So if you rly want to self destruct your ship you better plan that in time, before you run completelly out of resources.
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Xaxch Kuge
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:13:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Hettar
some ppl just shouldnt be able to post on forums, like the dude that says a missioner only mission runs for money and the pvp'er only kills for the satisfactionof the kill....
errr wrong....
piracy is a legitiment trade in this game and i alot of cases killing the ships is the primary money maker for that pilot.
sic and i mean on every ship.
You my friend are one of those people. Piracy legitiment? lol did u mean Legitimate? Either way your wrong. Piracy is an ALLOWED practice by CCP. It is no more legitimate than cheating on a contract and making money that way.
That being said you have no "right" to a persons mods and equipment. Just because you "worked hard" to kill them. I can almost guarantee you that the person you pop worked harder.
As to "if npcs didn't drop loot and self destructed"...I'll say this. If this were to happen I would still march my happy self right down to the concord office and say... hey look here at this combat log, I forced him to kill himself, and odds are they'd still give me my money. On the other hand YOU cant go anywhere and say "look I made him kill himself I deserve money!"... Why you ask? because you did something Illegal lol.
That is the inherent risk of being a pirate. You put a descent ship on the line (ie you get a bs or command ship, and 12 buddy's, not really risking much is it?) and rock some solo pilot. You don't deserve anything. You may earn something yes but deserve? no.
Also as someone else stated... usually its not carebares that do this, its experienced PVPrs that thought they were the ish because they finally got a capital class ship. Then you come along and own them they don't want it showing up on their kill board. But that makes little difference.
What I find funny is that you pirates act like CCP should protect ur right to ruin other peoples hard work.... and then benefit from it. Its like a robber complaining to the U.S. government saying "THAT BANK HAD NO MONEY IN IT!! I WORKED HARD TO BREAK IN THERE AND STEAL MONEY!! ITS HOW I MAKE MY LIVING. I DEMAND RECOMPENSE!!" how stupid and short sighted would that be?
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Xaxch Kuge
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:25:00 -
[107]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You, along with half the people in this thread, have stupidly missed the point.
The main point of self destruct ISN'T to deny your enemy loot. The main point of self destruct is to have an exit strategy when you are unable to do anything else and the enemy isn't finishing you off.
Lol this is so untrue... Ur confusing self destruct with eject. Eject is for when someone is griefing you... Self destruct is when u want to preempt the greifers :)
Oh and on the topic of there Is no self destruct on modern vessels of war.... Well I can only say how sad for you... Every missile, every bomb, every barrel of powder(yes they still exist) every weapon the ship has can be set off inside the ship.... thus scuttling the ship. given 2 mins any moder sub can purposefully crit its nuclear reactor and detonate all of its remaining torpedoes. Thus totally obliterating the ship.
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JS LiamElms
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.29 13:18:00 -
[108]
1) insurance is offered by someone and is risk based... why would anyone insure your BS knowing your going into battle.... that thought in mind, Insurance should be offered for your activities. TBH, i'd rather see insurance offered on a mission only baises. During this mission you can purchase X insurance. Why do you think everyone and his bob alt goes to mass blob fleet battles in BS, cause its cheaper than flying a T2 ship! And if your alliance pays the primiums!
2) removing this insurance problem will remove the need to pile sooooo many capitals into a system, suddenly the risk of flying one of those things is actually there! reduces capital online, and puts more on the alliance to support its pilots.
3)which then inturn makes the alliance control its space better, and not let individual corps or people claiming moons etc..... which is prime cause for many recent break ups o.0.... The full income going back into the alliance to secure its space. Actually improving the risk to reward situation. Your alliance wants more space, it must risk more.
4)SD changes to match its core size to do with time... as mentioned... but as insurance is from alliance or mission based, the person SD gains nothing from it except the personal satisfication that his hard work did not fall into the hands of the force that has him pinned. If dying due to a mission and been probed out on said misssion, his ship is insured by the agent for putting him in that postion. if the alliance had insured the ship... he will have to explain why he was camping the gate in an alliance insured carrier. If he hadn't taken out the insurance, it really is his own loss
tbh... insurance is the problem.... i mean, who in there right mind is going to insure a ship that is going to be used in war! The only insurance that should be there is for the activities your going into. Alliance insurance.. out of the alliance pocket. Mission insurance... out of the agents pocket.
so to solve this problem, remove insurance to agents and alliance/corp options. shorten time period for insurance.
anyway, makes sense in my mind.... insurance is your problem, it offers reward for stupidity. oh, and if you think about it... the must be something!!! that you can salvage from a SD situation... so maybe reduce the chance of a drop down to next to nothing... but somthing nice could still drop |
Xaxch Kuge
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Posted - 2008.05.29 20:28:00 -
[109]
Originally by: JS LiamElms
1) insurance is offered by someone and is risk based... why would anyone insure your BS knowing your going into battle....
I dont get it? why would people not insure you? If there are companys that insure soldiers during times of war... if there are companys that that insure stunt actors.... why would someone not take ur money for a ship?
As to your other points. Yes I agree that the way insurance is should change. but it shouldnt be done away with all together, or put soley in the hands of an alliance. Id suggest the game needs scripts for frigates that makes them more deadly towards cap ships, to reduce the number of them in game... or double the cost of all cap ships. I dont think deleting insurance for everyone fixes the problem of cap warfare.
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mamolian
Eternity INC.
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:25:00 -
[110]
Edited by: mamolian on 29/05/2008 22:25:24
Self destructing should provide a portion of the fittings/drones/cargo bay (Or possibly all fittings?), as if you had blown the ship up.. However.. To hell with the idiots screaming for an increase in the SD timer, and the same to the folks looking for a killmail.
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Lady Godgifu
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Posted - 2008.05.30 00:37:00 -
[111]
Originally by: mamolian
Edited by: mamolian on 29/05/2008 22:25:24
Self destructing should provide a portion of the fittings/drones/cargo bay (Or possibly all fittings?), as if you had blown the ship up.. However.. To hell with the idiots screaming for an increase in the SD timer, and the same to the folks looking for a killmail.
No there is one very simple solution to this problem, you simple don't get any insurance if you self destruct your ship.
That makes perfect sense, it leaves the timer as it is and gives people the opportunity of denying th attacker the killmail and loot but they also lose their insurance payout. Also takes care of insurance fraud 
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:20:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/05/2008 02:26:08
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/05/2008 02:24:36
Originally by: Xaxch Kuge
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You, along with half the people in this thread, have stupidly missed the point.
The main point of self destruct ISN'T to deny your enemy loot. The main point of self destruct is to have an exit strategy when you are unable to do anything else and the enemy isn't finishing you off.
Lol this is so untrue... Ur confusing self destruct with eject. Eject is for when someone is griefing you... Self destruct is when u want to preempt the greifers :)
And you eject from your pod how? ;)
Besides, self-destruct is not used in a preventive fashion right now. It's used when you're losing a fight in a high HP ship.
By the way, I simply don't realise how you menaged to miss all the 'this is a PvP game, etc' and such (dev) statements if you believe piracy is not a legitimate profession (lol). In case you haven't noticed, you're playing a game where devs end blogs with 'enjoy shooting each other in the face' 
Originally by: Xaxch Kuge
Originally by: JS LiamElms
1) insurance is offered by someone and is risk based... why would anyone insure your BS knowing your going into battle....
I dont get it? why would people not insure you? If there are companys that insure soldiers during times of war... if there are companys that that insure stunt actors.... why would someone not take ur money for a ship?
Because insurance companies are businesses which try to operate at a profit. Now, if the average soldier died during the first month of combat (which is something that happens in EvE) they either wouldn't insure them, or you'd pay a weekly fee which is approximately 1/3rd of the insurance payout, to insure the insurance company still makes some profit.
While being a solidier in a modern army is risky, most of them do stay alive, so the payouts are relatively few. Same for stunt actors and such. Their premiums are probably higher to accomodate the increased risks they take.
Companies are not charities. If your average ship dies in two weeks, then the insurance period needs to last a maximum of four to five days (assuming paying 1/3rd of insurance payout as it is now) or so for the company to not operate at a loss.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
ghosttr
Explora Empire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:57:00 -
[113]
I think that all modules shoudl offline when you attempt to sd. Hit sd = no tank.
I also think that if someone tries to sd and eject that the sd shouldn't work
My Blog |
King Balthazar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:13:00 -
[114]
Edited by: King Balthazar on 30/05/2008 13:14:35
i agree when self destructiing ALL MODULES should go offline!!!! but to be honest the problem is not the SD is the lame players who use it because they cant face the fact they got owned and everyone is gone see it on the KB. eg Fu*king around with a carrier outside a station "IAC"
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