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General Spaz
Minmatar
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.04.15 23:17:00 -
[31]
Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 23:17:50
Tell me about it. But i'll bet we both got alot more money then they are getting.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.15 23:30:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: General Spaz
Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 23:17:50
Tell me about it. But i'll bet we both got alot more money then they are getting.
In absolute terms? Sure. In relative terms? Maybe not.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.16 21:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: General Spaz
In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it.
If you recall the old hauler missions (first semester 2006), they were much harder to farm (at least the high levels). Larger loads, trips with multiple stops and cargo to unload and load at different stations.
Maybe I am idolizing them a bit as they were changed before I got to level 4, but I clearly recall missions where you had to pick cargo in 4 different stations and deliver them in other stations. I think that something like thats was harder to macro and even if macroed it would be way less profitable than running 0.5 m3 missions between 2 adjacent systems.
Another useful thing would be to break the missions hubs in low sec (and even in high sec) so that it is not possible to refuse multiple hauling missions to get those easily to macro or farm for a sheatshop worker. |
Morux
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Posted - 2008.04.17 10:08:00 -
[34]
I dunno how some of the other miners out there feel, but to me, macrominers are REALLY annoying. After spending 4 months maxing out mining skills, you get to the point where you can pull over 2200m3/minute in highsec. BUT, because of macrominers nailing belts all day long, you have to work a lot harder to sustain a good yield (since the roids are 1/2-2/3 depleted).
It'd be like Ratters competing with other "computerized" ratters that leave you nothing but Atrons to blast. After awhile, it gets pretty annoying.
The only sa***uard for macros is NPC protection (and corp swapping post wardec). As another alternative, what if ORE barges were restricted as a corp asset (similar to POSs)? It'd require them to move out of an NPC corp and leave them exposed a bit... I'd be down with the exploration part of EVE for mining, but right now probing for belts flat-out stinks. It'd really need an overhaul on the gravimetric-spawn process to subvert macroing in hisec besides forcing macros out of NPC corps. Just rambling a bit here... but a couple ideas. |
driftey
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Posted - 2008.04.17 11:52:00 -
[35]
I dont think isk farmers use these methods at all.I think they dont even play eve they buy gtc and trade them then sell the isk.They dont need to farm the isk.
But im not saying take gtc out becuse that will have a bad effect.Think of gtc market as a balancing system for all conserned from player who sells isk to players to the player that resells it.GTC sets the price standard. without it eve would be alot worse.GTC are good for the players who buy isk becuse if the isk sellers charge to much they just buy there own gtc and buypass the isk seller.Game gets lots of accounts paid this way players can have a few alts easly once they have a decent level char to earn isk this also ensure's eve's longterm future as a game the people who try to stop gtc selling are the same ones with lots of isk they want to sell you and no if its stoped they can charge more. 
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.17 12:46:00 -
[36]
Change title to "Getting rid of the ISK-BUYING issue" and perhaps more might be interested. No market-no sellers  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Decadre Solydius
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Posted - 2008.04.17 13:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Malcanis
Bought ISK is not 'hard earned'...
Not neccesarily true, at least if you widen the scope and take into consideration what cruddy or hard job that player has in RL. Yes, it is a bit of a philosophical stretch, but take for instance an Alaskan Crab Fisherman. His/her money is certainly hard earned. |
Cruthensis
Gallente
Farmer Killers
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.17 14:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: driftey
I dont think isk farmers use these methods at all.I think they dont even play eve they buy gtc and trade them then sell the isk.They dont need to farm the isk.
You're not very bright are you.
Any player who wanted to buy some ISK would just do exactly what you say (buy a GTC and sell for ISK), but then keep the ISK. If the farmers used your idea, their ISK would have to be more expensive than GTC-bought ISK in order to profit from it, so no-one would buy it.
The farmers use the same in-game methods to generate ISK as any normal player. They just do it repeatedly, efficiently and a lot.
1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1. |
Ashlee Darksky
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Posted - 2008.04.17 14:03:00 -
[39]
I know EVE has problems, but I am sick and tired of these continual threads moaning and whining about the same issues over and over and over again. Put up or shut up!
It's mostly older players that have plenty of ISK and resources that do the moaning.
Why? Are you afraid of someone newer than you having more ships and ISK than you? Or is it that you just want to keep everyone in check, downtrodden so you can have all the fun?
Next you'll be asking for all the missions and belt rats to be removed. Maybe they should remove the belts too so no one has any money at all. Would you be happy then? Doubt it, you'd just find something else to whinge about.
I make most of my money by ratting and missions. There is nothing wrong with that. MISSIONS AND RATTING ARE THERE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO EARN MONEY! I can tell you, they're not easy money either and take considerable time, effort and care to do. Not to mention replacing lost ships when it goes wrong.
You may be able to buy 200 ravens, I can't! If I lose a BC or a BS it's a big loss for me and takes time to replace. Try and understand that, and not simply assume I'm farming and ruining the game for everyone.
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Annaphera
Minmatar
The Green Machine
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Posted - 2008.04.17 15:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: General Spaz
Actually I have spoken at length to people who have used macro's. You'd be surprised how simple it is to use and how complex the program is.
For the sake of science we tried every way imaginable to make his macro fail, but it was futile, the program is just too good.
The only thing that seems to work is Goon-style jihad, but then you have the chance of killing real people.
So far we have agreed on 3 things.
1. Stop macro's
2. Fix logoffski
3. Allow non-covops to be probed somehow that is fair for all parties.
In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it.
Doing the first three things would probably drive these people out of business by default.
Two things in response:
First, as a (primarily) high-sec dweller, I have a problem only with #3, and then only tentatively. They would have to be very careful with the mechanic introduced, or else render non-covops cloaks almost worthless. I occasionally sneak into low and null sec to mine, confident that if someone enters the system I can cloak. Currently, whether I escape detection is dependent only on how much attention I am paying to local. If a pirate can easily scan the system and pinpoint me, there is absolutely no way I can tell and take evasive action, and really no point to fitting the cloak at all. At the very least, there should be some message telling people that a scan is happening (maybe if they have a new mod equipped or an active cloak). You'd still get to nail the AFK cloaks, but those actually paying attention could run. Also, remember that unless something has changed, the stealth bombers can't fit the covert ops cloak despite being a covert ops ship, making them very vulnerable.
Second, how exactly would you go about changing courier missions to make them unfarmable? They are already much lower paying than kill missions, and generally a pain to gain standing with - what more can you do without getting rid of them all together? I wouldn't support that action, either...they do serve a purpose for those individuals not inclined to combat. |
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hellraiser reborn
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Posted - 2008.04.19 04:12:00 -
[41]
I'm posting on my alt to protect the names of the innocent. My main's corp is doing they're part.If we see a corp that is obviously involved in RMT transactions. Like spotting a group of corpmates 3 months old flying CNRs we war dec them and blow there assets up. Latest victims of our wrath 87 kills- 0 losses isk total 1.3 billion isk. Death to the isk buyers
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.04.19 05:05:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/04/2008 14:09:51
Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/04/2008 14:09:18
I know EVE has problems, but I am sick and tired of these continual threads moaning and whining about the same issues over and over and over again. Put up or shut up!
It's mostly older players that have plenty of ISK and resources that do the moaning.
Why? Are you afraid of someone newer than you having more ships and ISK than you? Or is it that you just want to keep everyone in check, downtrodden so you can have all the fun?
Next you'll be asking for all the missions and belt rats to be removed. Maybe they should remove the belts too so no one has any money at all. Would you be happy then? Doubt it, you'd just find something else to whinge about.
I make most of my money by ratting and missions. There is nothing wrong with that. MISSIONS AND RATTING ARE THERE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO EARN MONEY! I can tell you, they're not easy money either and take considerable time, effort and care to do. Not to mention replacing lost ships when it goes wrong.
You may be able to buy 200 ravens, I can't! If I lose a BC or a BS it's a big loss for me and takes time to replace. Try and understand that, and not simply assume I'm farming and ruining the game for everyone.
EDIT: Also the suggestion to allow non covert ops cloaked ships to be found is simply beyond lunacy! You may as well then scrap the entire low-end cloaking market. It would also make trips to 0.0 HARDER for newer players - which is exactly what you wanted to avoid wasn't it? My prototype cloak saved my ass the other day in 0.0
This chick turns me on.. 
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.19 05:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: General Spaz
Want to get rid of ISK selling?
Instead of hosing people in game for hard earned money every time a large transaction is made... why not do this..
Everyone knows where the farmers are getting ISK, it's not some big secret to anyone that actually plays Eve. Maybe to CCP and the trolls it is, seems like they spend most of thier time on the forums or in Singularity creating bugs... at any rate, if they got into TQ and played the game they would quickly find out what everyone else already knows.
Half the people you see in space are noob alts or ISK farmers. Ever been to an Ice belt in empire space? Ever been on a 60 jump roam through 0.0? Ever had these same oddly named characters convo you 5 hours later spamming ISK sales after you hunted their cloaked and safespotted Raven to no avail? If you've played Eve you have.
Here's how you fix ISK selling.
1. Stop the macros, remove ICE belts in high sec, or make belts need to be found through exploration as previously mentioned.
2. Make attacking or being attacked by NPC's get you aggro so if you log or disconnect: your ship emergency warps but remains in space as if you had PvP aggro prior to disconnect.
3. Enable probers the ability to probe for non-covops cloaked vessels.
4. Make it so attacking a ship whose player has been disconnected still gets the ship aggro before or after emergency warp. So if you are lucky enough to target the ship after a decloak or after he lands in the warpout spot you can fire on him and set the 15 minute timer.
These simple fixes would not only fix ISK farming on the highest levels, but also dishonest players. It would make honest players work better rewarded and 0.0 space would be a dangerous place to live in again.
Nothing you suggest hear would fix the 'problem'. Indeed not only that but your suggestions also rob the folks who are working hard of their isk.
If you want to remove ice belts from Empire remove the requirement of ice from POS fuels (crazy that our power generators only work for 2 weeks, you'd think we'd have fusion reactors at least, anti matter at best....)
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