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Getting rid of the ISK selling problem

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General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:42:00 - [1] Want to get rid of ISK selling? Instead of hosing people in game for hard earned money every time a large transaction is made... why not do this.. Everyone knows where the farmers are getting ISK, it's not some big secret to anyone that actually plays Eve. Maybe to CCP and the trolls it is, seems like they spend most of thier time on the forums or in Singularity creating bugs... at any rate, if they got into TQ and played the game they would quickly find out what everyone else already knows. Half the people you see in space are noob alts or ISK farmers. Ever been to an Ice belt in empire space? Ever been on a 60 jump roam through 0.0? Ever had these same oddly named characters convo you 5 hours later spamming ISK sales after you hunted their cloaked and safespotted Raven to no avail? If you've played Eve you have. Here's how you fix ISK selling. 1. Stop the macros, remove ICE belts in high sec, or make belts need to be found through exploration as previously mentioned. 2. Make attacking or being attacked by NPC's get you aggro so if you log or disconnect: your ship emergency warps but remains in space as if you had PvP aggro prior to disconnect. 3. Enable probers the ability to probe for non-covops cloaked vessels. 4. Make it so attacking a ship whose player has been disconnected still gets the ship aggro before or after emergency warp. So if you are lucky enough to target the ship after a decloak or after he lands in the warpout spot you can fire on him and set the 15 minute timer. These simple fixes would not only fix ISK farming on the highest levels, but also dishonest players. It would make honest players work better rewarded and 0.0 space would be a dangerous place to live in again.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:44:00 - [2] How will this affect high-sec mission farming, though? I believe that is the biggest source of farmed ISK. I wouldn't mind the other suggestions though - then again I wouldn't personally be affected by most of them. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:47:00 - [3] "Instead of hosing people in game for hard earned money every time a large transaction is made... " Bought ISK is not 'hard earned'... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Suboran on 15/04/2008 18:50:05 i like these ideas but, what about the courier mission farmers
Shirley Serious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:53:00 - [5] Quote: Ever been to an Ice belt in empire space? Yes. There was nobody there. Or anyone else in the system for that matter. Guess not even farmers want to harvest ice in a system without a station.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:54:00 - [6] I think someone has been pew-pewing too much and hasn't looked at the market or how things are made... So, next time you wish to buy your T2 minnie ship and can't find any because the price of POS fuel went through the roof, don't whine on the forums. You DO realize that most of the T2 stuff you buy is built in HighSec using player-ran POSs, right? No Icefields == No Fuel, or very expensive fuel. Raise prices on things and it just makes it more likely that people will buy ISK to replace their losses. I also think you need to train "Comprehension Of Actions" to at least level 3, so that you understand that along with taking the ill-gotten ISK they also hit the farming operations that GOT that ISK and that trail leads to other buyers. Unless you already have "ISK Purchasing Power" to level 2 and have bought it yourself and don't want CCP to take yours, so you are instead recommending nerfing others in a plan which won't do anything... Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Darwin Duck Ark Royals	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:09:00 - [7] All these CCP alts posting a GM "stole" their ISK might do the trick
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I think someone has been pew-pewing too much and hasn't looked at the market or how things are made... So, next time you wish to buy your T2 minnie ship and can't find any because the price of POS fuel went through the roof, don't whine on the forums. You DO realize that most of the T2 stuff you buy is built in HighSec using player-ran POSs, right? No Icefields == No Fuel, or very expensive fuel. Raise prices on things and it just makes it more likely that people will buy ISK to replace their losses. I also think you need to train "Comprehension Of Actions" to at least level 3, so that you understand that along with taking the ill-gotten ISK they also hit the farming operations that GOT that ISK and that trail leads to other buyers. Unless you already have "ISK Purchasing Power" to level 2 and have bought it yourself and don't want CCP to take yours, so you are instead recommending nerfing others in a plan which won't do anything... Actally, if POS fuel became a lot more expensive and cut down on the POS spam, many 0.0 pilots would weep tears of joy. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Malcanis Actally, if POS fuel became a lot more expensive and cut down on the POS spam, many 0.0 pilots would weep tears of joy. If POS fuel got more expensive those 0.0 pilots would be told to hit the ice belts and start Pew-Pewing ice. Those tears would be of dismay Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
kenna holcolm Minmatar Darkwave Technologies Pure.	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:26:00 - [10] im doing my part, i popped one of them chinese bastards last night. keep in mind that they use active tanks on their ravens. haha, nuets are perfect for owning them. death, destruction, decimation... do these words sound familiar shrike? well if not your about to whitness them firsthand
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Malcanis Actally, if POS fuel became a lot more expensive and cut down on the POS spam, many 0.0 pilots would weep tears of joy. If POS fuel got more expensive those 0.0 pilots would be told to hit the ice belts and start Pew-Pewing ice. Those tears would be of dismay Delicious tears. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:59:00 - [12] Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 20:00:22 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I think someone has been pew-pewing too much and hasn't looked at the market or how things are made... So, next time you wish to buy your T2 minnie ship and can't find any because the price of POS fuel went through the roof, don't whine on the forums. You DO realize that most of the T2 stuff you buy is built in HighSec using player-ran POSs, right? No Icefields == No Fuel, or very expensive fuel. Raise prices on things and it just makes it more likely that people will buy ISK to replace their losses. I also think you need to train "Comprehension Of Actions" to at least level 3, so that you understand that along with taking the ill-gotten ISK they also hit the farming operations that GOT that ISK and that trail leads to other buyers. Unless you already have "ISK Purchasing Power" to level 2 and have bought it yourself and don't want CCP to take yours, so you are instead recommending nerfing others in a plan which won't do anything... Yes, we have been pew-pewing, and yes we know how things are made. Where there is demand there will be supply, what will happen is the macro's will instead turn to mining regular ore in belts (which disapper, unlike the ice). This will make the low end mineral price go down and the price of ice raise. Ultimately it will make more work for the farmers... which raises the price of thier product (ISK), which means what? Less people will buy it. In turn, more actual people will join corporations and alliances to move to low-sec (a good thing) or 0.0 to mine the ice to reap the rewards. If they are in 0.0 or low sec, or in a corporation or alliance, they can be shot. This is one less source of revenue for farmers, but a way for real players to make ISK. As more people move from mining high end ores to mining ice, the high end mineral market will go up again and things will balance out. The only ones getting left in the cold are the macros. The 0.0 ratting ISK farmers are easily dealt with by my other suggestions. The only faucet left would be the mission farmers, to combat this, just move all level 4 agents to low sec, problem solved. The price of ISK from farmers skyrockets until they are out of business, low sec gets populated, piracy becomes a real career again, POS Spam decreases, and 0.0 becomes dangerous and lucrative again. Everyone wins.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:07:00 - [13] Why does this sound like some certain person is trying to wrap the 'boost lowsec', 'kill logoffski' and 'murder afk cloakers' topics into a heroic 'Fight RMT!!' cover to sell it more easily than the single topics? Isn't that intellectually dishonest? -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:15:00 - [14] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 15/04/2008 20:16:23 look Ma! I am posting in a thread with ideas from 72727 threads!!!!! but seriously, CCP already got the RMT thing covered... what you proposed would... (well, for the ice mining and stuff anyways) nerf CCP's Subs... it would frustrate the hell out of alot of pilots... edit: as for the other things... well... you should add it in the title =P no-body-sane wants to do ice mining... when theres so much other fun stuff to do.... nerf the fun stuff too? = well, nerf CCP's subs..
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:18:00 - [15] sound it or it a cry i was popped while AFK mining i would put a 50 50 bet on either
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:27:00 - [16] Actually I created this thread so I could pull out the real carebear corps who would disagree with everything i'm saying. That way I could have a few easy wardecs to pick from...
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 15/04/2008 20:39:15 Originally by: General Spaz Actually I created this thread so I could pull out the real carebear corps who would disagree with everything i'm saying. That way I could have a few easy wardecs to pick from... Well since Bob and Co, and most other 0.0 alliances, pull fuel heavily from HighSec just run down there and take care of them And people wonder why no one posts with their mains. Jeeze. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:53:00 - [18] Originally by: General Spaz Actually I created this thread so I could pull out the real carebear corps who would disagree with everything i'm saying. That way I could have a few easy wardecs to pick from... but but but.. dont you know people post with alt corps? =P and yeah... forum warriors /= pew pew in games anyways =P... want real bears.. look for the leet sounding corp names =P.... tons of them in motsu =P
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Abrazzar Why does this sound like some certain person is trying to wrap the 'boost lowsec', 'kill logoffski' and 'murder afk cloakers' topics into a heroic 'Fight RMT!!' cover to sell it more easily than the single topics? Isn't that intellectually dishonest? I guess you don't see how some of these problems are related? You dont have to agree with me to see that, all you have to do is play Eve.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:13:00 - [20] Originally by: General Spaz I guess you don't see how some of these problems are related? You dont have to agree with me to see that, all you have to do is play Eve. No, we can see that the POTENTIAL to be related is there but they aren't by default. But what you are saying is "The Queen took a bath. She caught Small Pox. Taking a bath causes Small Pox". (by the way, actual belief in Elizabethan England and true story) Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:17:00 - [21] No, alts are part of a problem with Eve. Real people hiding behind alter-ego's to protect thier alter ego's... It's sad that people on the INTERNET still have issues doing things or stating thier opinions in public because they lack the testicular fortitude to be held accountable for their actions.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:24:00 - [22] Originally by: General Spaz Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 20:00:22 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I think someone has been pew-pewing too much and hasn't looked at the market or how things are made... So, next time you wish to buy your T2 minnie ship and can't find any because the price of POS fuel went through the roof, don't whine on the forums. You DO realize that most of the T2 stuff you buy is built in HighSec using player-ran POSs, right? No Icefields == No Fuel, or very expensive fuel. Raise prices on things and it just makes it more likely that people will buy ISK to replace their losses. I also think you need to train "Comprehension Of Actions" to at least level 3, so that you understand that along with taking the ill-gotten ISK they also hit the farming operations that GOT that ISK and that trail leads to other buyers. Unless you already have "ISK Purchasing Power" to level 2 and have bought it yourself and don't want CCP to take yours, so you are instead recommending nerfing others in a plan which won't do anything... Yes, we have been pew-pewing, and yes we know how things are made. Where there is demand there will be supply, what will happen is the macro's will instead turn to mining regular ore in belts (which disapper, unlike the ice). This will make the low end mineral price go down and the price of ice raise. Ultimately it will make more work for the farmers... which raises the price of thier product (ISK), which means what? Less people will buy it. In turn, more actual people will join corporations and alliances to move to low-sec (a good thing) or 0.0 to mine the ice to reap the rewards. If they are in 0.0 or low sec, or in a corporation or alliance, they can be shot. This is one less source of revenue for farmers, but a way for real players to make ISK. As more people move from mining high end ores to mining ice, the high end mineral market will go up again and things will balance out. The only ones getting left in the cold are the macros. The 0.0 ratting ISK farmers are easily dealt with by my other suggestions. The only faucet left would be the mission farmers, to combat this, just move all level 4 agents to low sec, problem solved. The price of ISK from farmers skyrockets until they are out of business, low sec gets populated, piracy becomes a real career again, POS Spam decreases, and 0.0 becomes dangerous and lucrative again. Everyone wins. Seeing as the biggest and more steady isk purchaser in game are PvPers, and that your nice suggestions are primarily intended to nef empire players, with limited effect on sweatshop farmers (BTW mining veldspater net more isk than mining ice), I think you have some serious flaw in realizing how EVE economy work.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:35:00 - [23] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 15/04/2008 21:38:30 Originally by: General Spaz No, alts are part of a problem with Eve. Real people hiding behind alter-ego's to protect thier alter ego's... It's sad that people on the INTERNET still have issues doing things or stating thier opinions in public because they lack the testicular fortitude to be held accountable for their actions. Funny comment coming from someone who's entire corp was founded by Alts and brag about it What's the name of that main? Added: Minmatar Mafia open for Business Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:45:00 - [24] Ok, so how then would you propose combatting this? Instead of "your idea's suck", you should try "your idea's suck... but this might work instead". At least that way you have offered something to a conversation and not just more dead weight. Fact is: Macro's are ISK farmers... whether these farmers are using the ISK for sale or just to fuel their playtime, they are still farming. Period. With that statement I think we can all agree that its unfair to the typical player. If CCP didn't care about fairness then they wouldn't actively pursue ISK sellers and buyers. While ice may not be the best source of farming... it is one of the easiest for them. Take away the ice from farmers first then find a way to take the regular ores away from the farmers as well, but leave it for real players. Either by making the belts non-static or even introducing a few triple BS spawns in Empire once in a great while . Lets see those perma running Small shield booster I's tank that for 20 minutes.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 15/04/2008 21:38:30 Originally by: General Spaz No, alts are part of a problem with Eve. Real people hiding behind alter-ego's to protect thier alter ego's... It's sad that people on the INTERNET still have issues doing things or stating thier opinions in public because they lack the testicular fortitude to be held accountable for their actions. Funny comment coming from someone who's entire corp was founded by Alts and brag about it What's the name of that main? Added: Minmatar Mafia open for Business This is my main now, my "older" character is also in my corporation. I'll let you do some more investigative work to figure out which one it is.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:00:00 - [26] Ok, NOW we can start talking Macros != ISK farmers. Shown again and again in literally hundreds of threads. TECHNICALLY ISK farming is not against the EULA; we all do it (I came back to Empire to run level 4s so I can buy ships for my pirate). MACROS are against the EULA, however. 1) I don't disagree with moving HighSec belts to exploration, at least the ones that are worth anything. That way new players can mine and get skills while older players can find better stuff. The problem with that is ISK sellers will just find the belts, THEN set their macros to continue from there. Net gain? Nothing because it is harder to suicide miners in hidden belts. 2) Moving Ice isn't an option. Simply the market impact is too great. If you moved all Ice to lowsec you would have to make alterations to allow mining barges to survive a pirate attack; either by making special corp modules that can be deployed to defend, etc. Personally I wish CCP would remove most of the "NPC" station-required things and allow PCs to offer POS services to the general public. True player-run economy there too. But driving up fuel prices will undo everything that CCP has tried to do in the last year with invention. 3) I don't care about cloaking farmers or probing non-covert ships. The only thing I would voice is that the mechanics need to alter slightly if this is done. The probes would need to give the target's location based on when the probe started, not ended. Right now when the probe stops you have 100% pinpoint on location; 2nd probe drop and any non-covert ship is dead. Make the chase last a bit. 4) Fix disconnects and you can do anything you want with aggression times. Suggestions: 1) Harsher response to buying and link all known accounts to it. Meaning if one account doesn't have enough, raid from the rest too. 2) Bans for repeated buying. 3) They are already banning for selling. 4) Dedicated team to monitor and take care of them. More resources CAN equal more effective tactics 5) Easier petitioning, its irritating to have to open several boxes just to petition that someone was selling in local. Same with macros; never any feedback. CCP is probably doing the best it can right now though. Most "macros" aren't anymore from what I have seen, they are actual people behind the ship or they have got a lot more effective In the meantime we do what we can by petitioning suspected and not buying ISKies. Eventually you have ONE way to combat them; make people KNOW they will be screwed if they do buy ISK. What I won't tolerate is people screwing over legitimate players in the name of "fixing" macros. I actually found your comment about knowing who to wardec refreshing and a nice new tactic Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:01:00 - [27] Originally by: General Spaz This is my main now, my "older" character is also in my corporation. I'll let you do some more investigative work to figure out which one it is. Good enough, I really don't care either way since General Spaz is an active character... Just found the comment funny Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Malcanis Actally, if POS fuel became a lot more expensive and cut down on the POS spam, many 0.0 pilots would weep tears of joy. If POS fuel got more expensive those 0.0 pilots would be told to hit the ice belts and start Pew-Pewing ice. Those tears would be of dismay Yeah, me and my 40k SP in Industry, great ice miner. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:23:00 - [29] Actually I have spoken at length to people who have used macro's. You'd be surprised how simple it is to use and how complex the program is. For the sake of science we tried every way imaginable to make his macro fail, but it was futile, the program is just too good. The only thing that seems to work is Goon-style jihad, but then you have the chance of killing real people. So far we have agreed on 3 things. 1. Stop macro's 2. Fix logoffski 3. Allow non-covops to be probed somehow that is fair for all parties. In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it. Doing the first three things would probably drive these people out of business by default.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:34:00 - [30] Originally by: General Spaz Actually I have spoken at length to people who have used macro's. You'd be surprised how simple it is to use and how complex the program is. For the sake of science we tried every way imaginable to make his macro fail, but it was futile, the program is just too good. The only thing that seems to work is Goon-style jihad, but then you have the chance of killing real people. So far we have agreed on 3 things. 1. Stop macro's 2. Fix logoffski 3. Allow non-covops to be probed somehow that is fair for all parties. In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it. Doing the first three things would probably drive these people out of business by default. I've done jobs that were worse than farming missions. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:17:00 - [31] Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 23:17:50 Tell me about it. But i'll bet we both got alot more money then they are getting.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:30:00 - [32] Originally by: General Spaz Edited by: General Spaz on 15/04/2008 23:17:50 Tell me about it. But i'll bet we both got alot more money then they are getting. In absolute terms? Sure. In relative terms? Maybe not. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 21:44:00 - [33] Originally by: General Spaz In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it. If you recall the old hauler missions (first semester 2006), they were much harder to farm (at least the high levels). Larger loads, trips with multiple stops and cargo to unload and load at different stations. Maybe I am idolizing them a bit as they were changed before I got to level 4, but I clearly recall missions where you had to pick cargo in 4 different stations and deliver them in other stations. I think that something like thats was harder to macro and even if macroed it would be way less profitable than running 0.5 m3 missions between 2 adjacent systems. Another useful thing would be to break the missions hubs in low sec (and even in high sec) so that it is not possible to refuse multiple hauling missions to get those easily to macro or farm for a sheatshop worker.
Morux	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:08:00 - [34] I dunno how some of the other miners out there feel, but to me, macrominers are REALLY annoying. After spending 4 months maxing out mining skills, you get to the point where you can pull over 2200m3/minute in highsec. BUT, because of macrominers nailing belts all day long, you have to work a lot harder to sustain a good yield (since the roids are 1/2-2/3 depleted). It'd be like Ratters competing with other "computerized" ratters that leave you nothing but Atrons to blast. After awhile, it gets pretty annoying. The only sa***uard for macros is NPC protection (and corp swapping post wardec). As another alternative, what if ORE barges were restricted as a corp asset (similar to POSs)? It'd require them to move out of an NPC corp and leave them exposed a bit... I'd be down with the exploration part of EVE for mining, but right now probing for belts flat-out stinks. It'd really need an overhaul on the gravimetric-spawn process to subvert macroing in hisec besides forcing macros out of NPC corps. Just rambling a bit here... but a couple ideas.
driftey	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:52:00 - [35] I dont think isk farmers use these methods at all.I think they dont even play eve they buy gtc and trade them then sell the isk.They dont need to farm the isk. But im not saying take gtc out becuse that will have a bad effect.Think of gtc market as a balancing system for all conserned from player who sells isk to players to the player that resells it.GTC sets the price standard. without it eve would be alot worse.GTC are good for the players who buy isk becuse if the isk sellers charge to much they just buy there own gtc and buypass the isk seller.Game gets lots of accounts paid this way players can have a few alts easly once they have a decent level char to earn isk this also ensure's eve's longterm future as a game the people who try to stop gtc selling are the same ones with lots of isk they want to sell you and no if its stoped they can charge more.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:46:00 - [36] Change title to "Getting rid of the ISK-BUYING issue" and perhaps more might be interested. No market-no sellers . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Decadre Solydius	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:49:00 - [37] Originally by: Malcanis Bought ISK is not 'hard earned'... Not neccesarily true, at least if you widen the scope and take into consideration what cruddy or hard job that player has in RL. Yes, it is a bit of a philosophical stretch, but take for instance an Alaskan Crab Fisherman. His/her money is certainly hard earned.
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:00:00 - [38] Originally by: driftey I dont think isk farmers use these methods at all.I think they dont even play eve they buy gtc and trade them then sell the isk.They dont need to farm the isk. You're not very bright are you. Any player who wanted to buy some ISK would just do exactly what you say (buy a GTC and sell for ISK), but then keep the ISK. If the farmers used your idea, their ISK would have to be more expensive than GTC-bought ISK in order to profit from it, so no-one would buy it. The farmers use the same in-game methods to generate ISK as any normal player. They just do it repeatedly, efficiently and a lot. 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:03:00 - [39] I know EVE has problems, but I am sick and tired of these continual threads moaning and whining about the same issues over and over and over again. Put up or shut up! It's mostly older players that have plenty of ISK and resources that do the moaning. Why? Are you afraid of someone newer than you having more ships and ISK than you? Or is it that you just want to keep everyone in check, downtrodden so you can have all the fun? Next you'll be asking for all the missions and belt rats to be removed. Maybe they should remove the belts too so no one has any money at all. Would you be happy then? Doubt it, you'd just find something else to whinge about. I make most of my money by ratting and missions. There is nothing wrong with that. MISSIONS AND RATTING ARE THERE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO EARN MONEY! I can tell you, they're not easy money either and take considerable time, effort and care to do. Not to mention replacing lost ships when it goes wrong. You may be able to buy 200 ravens, I can't! If I lose a BC or a BS it's a big loss for me and takes time to replace. Try and understand that, and not simply assume I'm farming and ruining the game for everyone.
Annaphera Minmatar The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:52:00 - [40] Originally by: General Spaz Actually I have spoken at length to people who have used macro's. You'd be surprised how simple it is to use and how complex the program is. For the sake of science we tried every way imaginable to make his macro fail, but it was futile, the program is just too good. The only thing that seems to work is Goon-style jihad, but then you have the chance of killing real people. So far we have agreed on 3 things. 1. Stop macro's 2. Fix logoffski 3. Allow non-covops to be probed somehow that is fair for all parties. In addition to that, hauler missions could be tweaked to become non-farmable, then only mission farmers would remain. And as far as I am concerned missions are enough work that even ISK sellers don't want to do it. Doing the first three things would probably drive these people out of business by default. Two things in response: First, as a (primarily) high-sec dweller, I have a problem only with #3, and then only tentatively. They would have to be very careful with the mechanic introduced, or else render non-covops cloaks almost worthless. I occasionally sneak into low and null sec to mine, confident that if someone enters the system I can cloak. Currently, whether I escape detection is dependent only on how much attention I am paying to local. If a pirate can easily scan the system and pinpoint me, there is absolutely no way I can tell and take evasive action, and really no point to fitting the cloak at all. At the very least, there should be some message telling people that a scan is happening (maybe if they have a new mod equipped or an active cloak). You'd still get to nail the AFK cloaks, but those actually paying attention could run. Also, remember that unless something has changed, the stealth bombers can't fit the covert ops cloak despite being a covert ops ship, making them very vulnerable. Second, how exactly would you go about changing courier missions to make them unfarmable? They are already much lower paying than kill missions, and generally a pain to gain standing with - what more can you do without getting rid of them all together? I wouldn't support that action, either...they do serve a purpose for those individuals not inclined to combat.
hellraiser reborn	Posted - 2008.04.19 04:12:00 - [41] I'm posting on my alt to protect the names of the innocent. My main's corp is doing they're part.If we see a corp that is obviously involved in RMT transactions. Like spotting a group of corpmates 3 months old flying CNRs we war dec them and blow there assets up. Latest victims of our wrath 87 kills- 0 losses isk total 1.3 billion isk. Death to the isk buyers
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Ashlee Darksky Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/04/2008 14:09:51 Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/04/2008 14:09:18 I know EVE has problems, but I am sick and tired of these continual threads moaning and whining about the same issues over and over and over again. Put up or shut up! It's mostly older players that have plenty of ISK and resources that do the moaning. Why? Are you afraid of someone newer than you having more ships and ISK than you? Or is it that you just want to keep everyone in check, downtrodden so you can have all the fun? Next you'll be asking for all the missions and belt rats to be removed. Maybe they should remove the belts too so no one has any money at all. Would you be happy then? Doubt it, you'd just find something else to whinge about. I make most of my money by ratting and missions. There is nothing wrong with that. MISSIONS AND RATTING ARE THERE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO EARN MONEY! I can tell you, they're not easy money either and take considerable time, effort and care to do. Not to mention replacing lost ships when it goes wrong. You may be able to buy 200 ravens, I can't! If I lose a BC or a BS it's a big loss for me and takes time to replace. Try and understand that, and not simply assume I'm farming and ruining the game for everyone. EDIT: Also the suggestion to allow non covert ops cloaked ships to be found is simply beyond lunacy! You may as well then scrap the entire low-end cloaking market. It would also make trips to 0.0 HARDER for newer players - which is exactly what you wanted to avoid wasn't it? My prototype cloak saved my ass the other day in 0.0 This chick turns me on..
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:08:00 - [43] Originally by: General Spaz Want to get rid of ISK selling? Instead of hosing people in game for hard earned money every time a large transaction is made... why not do this.. Everyone knows where the farmers are getting ISK, it's not some big secret to anyone that actually plays Eve. Maybe to CCP and the trolls it is, seems like they spend most of thier time on the forums or in Singularity creating bugs... at any rate, if they got into TQ and played the game they would quickly find out what everyone else already knows. Half the people you see in space are noob alts or ISK farmers. Ever been to an Ice belt in empire space? Ever been on a 60 jump roam through 0.0? Ever had these same oddly named characters convo you 5 hours later spamming ISK sales after you hunted their cloaked and safespotted Raven to no avail? If you've played Eve you have. Here's how you fix ISK selling. 1. Stop the macros, remove ICE belts in high sec, or make belts need to be found through exploration as previously mentioned. 2. Make attacking or being attacked by NPC's get you aggro so if you log or disconnect: your ship emergency warps but remains in space as if you had PvP aggro prior to disconnect. 3. Enable probers the ability to probe for non-covops cloaked vessels. 4. Make it so attacking a ship whose player has been disconnected still gets the ship aggro before or after emergency warp. So if you are lucky enough to target the ship after a decloak or after he lands in the warpout spot you can fire on him and set the 15 minute timer. These simple fixes would not only fix ISK farming on the highest levels, but also dishonest players. It would make honest players work better rewarded and 0.0 space would be a dangerous place to live in again. Nothing you suggest hear would fix the 'problem'. Indeed not only that but your suggestions also rob the folks who are working hard of their isk. If you want to remove ice belts from Empire remove the requirement of ice from POS fuels (crazy that our power generators only work for 2 weeks, you'd think we'd have fusion reactors at least, anti matter at best....)

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