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Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:06:00 - [61] Originally by: Terianna Eri (also for reference a star destroyer is about 1.5-2x as long as a battleship, varying by race. The Apoc is almost as large as a star destroyer) + the ST has so much more in the way of firepower, only downside is not all of it's guns can fire at 1 target. due to line of sight, gun depression angles, angle of attack of SD.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:06:00 - [62] OH, and fun linky.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.17 22:12:00 - [63] Originally by: Kyanzes The Death Star would probably pwn any EVE fleet. pff, you just have to launch a torpedo through that exhaust port. oh wait... torp range was nerfed, right. but with good skills and rigs it still might be able to travel from exhaust pipe -> reactor.
Batwigg	Posted - 2008.04.17 23:16:00 - [64] Originally by: Tarminic EVE winds hands down when it comes to ship size if I recall - the Super Star Destroyer is only about the size of a dread or mothership. The Executor, Vader's flagship, and the most common type of Super Star Destroyer, was 18 kilometers long. That's just about the length of a Ragnarok.
Batwigg	Posted - 2008.04.17 23:26:00 - [65] Edited by: Batwigg on 17/04/2008 23:27:23 Originally by: Terianna Eri There's the fact that the vast majority of weapons in star wars are lasers. Like, almost all of them. EVE has EM/Therm hardeners. (also for reference a star destroyer is about 1.5-2x as long as a battleship, varying by race. The Apoc is almost as large as a star destroyer) Even though they call them "Lasers", star wars Lasers are not Lasers. They fire beams of plasma and high energy-parcticles. They are basically the same thing as EVE's Blasters, and would thus do Kinetic and Thermal damage. Ion cannons on the other hand, would obviously do EM damage. It's not entirely certain if they would disable EVE ships in the manner which they disable SW technology, but eh.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 02:23:00 - [66] Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the regular Star Destroyers would be more than able to take on their EvE equivalents?
Fallen Elite EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:38:00 - [67] Did everyone forget about Concord? Concord on its' own could dominate any SW Fleet. ------
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:27:00 - [68] Originally by: pwnedgato Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the regular Star Destroyers would be more than able to take on their EvE equivalents? The Imperial I-class Star Destroyer possessed a main battery of twelve heavy turbolasers and four heavy ion cannons, arranged in eight dual mounts flanking the ship's tower structure.[13] Like with several other Star Destroyer classes, the designers did not take advantage of their wedge shape to give the heavy cannons the ability to focus on targets in the forward firing arc that were level with the ship They cant focus fire. But they have total of 16 large weapons, not sure how many can shoot a singe target at a time. EVE battle ships only have 6-8 large weapons fitted at a time but can focus fire. The star destroyers have built in defender missiles and other smaller guns for anti fighter roles. Meaning the drones of a EVE battle ships will pretty much die fast. Also the star destroyers also work as a carrier. Having 48 TIE fighters and 12 TIE bombers. Those fighters however dont have much firepower except for the bombers and can easily be destroyed. I would say they have the HP eqvilant of a light/medium drones. So its hard to say who would win a fight. EVE with their heavy focused fire or starwars with its superior support and all direction firepower. If the 2 fleets would meet say with 40km between them then EVE would win due to the SW fleet only being able to use part of their firepower. Few smartbombs or a DD should handle those fighters. But in a point blank slug fest I dont know. SW being able to shoot all EVE ships at the same time with good damage or EVE ships focusing extreme damage to 1 ship at a time.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:09:00 - [69] Originally by: Kur'Dekaija Originally by: pwnedgato Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the regular Star Destroyers would be more than able to take on their EvE equivalents? The Imperial I-class Star Destroyer possessed a main battery of twelve heavy turbolasers and four heavy ion cannons, arranged in eight dual mounts flanking the ship's tower structure.[13] Like with several other Star Destroyer classes, the designers did not take advantage of their wedge shape to give the heavy cannons the ability to focus on targets in the forward firing arc that were level with the ship They cant focus fire. But they have total of 16 large weapons, not sure how many can shoot a singe target at a time. EVE battle ships only have 6-8 large weapons fitted at a time but can focus fire. The star destroyers have built in defender missiles and other smaller guns for anti fighter roles. Meaning the drones of a EVE battle ships will pretty much die fast. Also the star destroyers also work as a carrier. Having 48 TIE fighters and 12 TIE bombers. Those fighters however dont have much firepower except for the bombers and can easily be destroyed. I would say they have the HP eqvilant of a light/medium drones. So its hard to say who would win a fight. EVE with their heavy focused fire or starwars with its superior support and all direction firepower. If the 2 fleets would meet say with 40km between them then EVE would win due to the SW fleet only being able to use part of their firepower. Few smartbombs or a DD should handle those fighters. But in a point blank slug fest I dont know. SW being able to shoot all EVE ships at the same time with good damage or EVE ships focusing extreme damage to 1 ship at a time. Its all dependent on if your talking about an allience their fighting ingame or the backstory...If your talking about an allience between the 4 races fighting the empire then the empire loses(millions of battleships do that to people).
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.18 18:33:00 - [70] Originally by: Batwigg Edited by: Batwigg on 17/04/2008 23:27:23 Originally by: Terianna Eri There's the fact that the vast majority of weapons in star wars are lasers. Like, almost all of them. EVE has EM/Therm hardeners. (also for reference a star destroyer is about 1.5-2x as long as a battleship, varying by race. The Apoc is almost as large as a star destroyer) Even though they call them "Lasers", star wars Lasers are not Lasers. They fire beams of plasma and high energy-parcticles. They are basically the same thing as EVE's Blasters, and would thus do Kinetic and Thermal damage. Ion cannons on the other hand, would obviously do EM damage. It's not entirely certain if they would disable EVE ships in the manner which they disable SW technology, but eh. Okay, you got me. But the point stands - EVE ships can pretty easily harden themselves against the types of incoming damage. __________________________________

pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 19:23:00 - [71] Star Wars vessels are all much faster than EvE ships (I.E. Star Wars space isn't liquid). Also they have no need to use gates.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.04.18 19:29:00 - [72] Originally by: pwnedgato Star Wars vessels are all much faster than EvE ships (I.E. Star Wars space isn't liquid). Also they have no need to use gates. But like I said eve's fleets are more massive and the mats that make those fleets respawn every 24 hours. Not to mention the empire is better at crushing guerrila fighters then being the guerrila fighters.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.18 19:36:00 - [73] Edited by: DubanFP on 18/04/2008 19:41:36 Originally by: goodby4u Oh and if it was only oh say BOB vs the empire it would still be a tossup because eve calls primaries...stardestroyers shoot....Everywhere....Alot. i'm going to say EVE would win for 4 reasons. That's one of them but there's 3 more people seem to have missed entirely. The defining one being point #4. So if you only read one read that one. 2) Have you seen a star wars battle? The ships practically have to be on each other's asses to be effective, can't be effective more then 3-4km. A good BS fleet would warp in at 150km, call primaries, and blow the much slower star wars ships to pieces 1 by 1. 3) ECM, a handful of Scorpions & Rooks could pretty much lock down a small fleet of Star wars ships. Very good force multipliers. 4) The one nobody even thought of. Logistics and ship production. An EVE battleship takes only a couple of hours to mine the materials & build max where a Star Destroyer takes months to build. Even if a Star wars fleet was superior to a 100 man EVE fleet "that's quite a few alliances can build" they'd keep losing ships where EVE would just keep coming & coming. Of course with all the people dieing morale would crash & nobody would join the imperial fleet EVER because it would be a death sentence. EVE players would just be reborn. Finally round it all off with insurance covering the cost of most of the ships. Simply put, even if a Star wars fleet could beat an EVE fleet "which i'm I don't believe to be true" the EVE players would build an endless supply of ships. Not to mention EVE players have much MUCH more powerful hit & run tactics. 30 players warp in, devestate a patrol, warp out, and count the killmails.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:19:00 - [74] There are at least 1 trillion settled worlds in the SW galaxy I somehow doubt manpower is much of an issue. As for hit and run strikes the Empire can do them too. Hyperspace into a planet with just a few ISDs then initiate a BDZ. Few hours later planet is completely de-populated and uninhabitable for at least 40 years. Just repeat that on the few thousand settled systems.
Leon Johnstone CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:11:00 - [75] EVE would win! Even if they were losing, they could call in the Federation and the Enterprise would show up to save the day!
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:17:00 - [76] Originally by: Leon Johnstone EVE would win! Even if they were losing, they could call in the Federation and the Enterprise would show up to save the day! I hope that was sarcasm... Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:18:00 - [77] Originally by: pwnedgato There are at least 1 trillion settled worlds in the SW galaxy I somehow doubt manpower is much of an issue. As for hit and run strikes the Empire can do them too. Hyperspace into a planet with just a few ISDs then initiate a BDZ. Few hours later planet is completely de-populated and uninhabitable for at least 40 years. Just repeat that on the few thousand settled systems. Do you even understand how many ships belong to the combined amarr, minmatar, gellente, and caldari navies?Easily millions... And thats if concord and jove dont come into the fight.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:25:00 - [78] According to the EvE chronicles one of the largest Amarr fleets ever assembled was 200 strong (I'm assuming those are just the BS)... Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:28:00 - [79] Originally by: pwnedgato According to the EvE chronicles one of the largest Amarr fleets ever assembled was 200 strong (I'm assuming those are just the BS)... Oh really? Most of the pictures ive seen have one hell of alot of ships... Well whatever, like I said if jove get involved(they will)they could easily crush the empire themselves.... And ofcourse if concord get involved it could be a lol moment...
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:51:00 - [80] Concord is a joke. The reason cap ships aren't allowed in Hi-sec is because one of them can tank concord.

goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.04.18 22:00:00 - [81] Edited by: goodby4u on 18/04/2008 22:03:40 Originally by: pwnedgato Concord is a joke. The reason cap ships aren't allowed in Hi-sec is because one of them can tank concord. Concord neut now, I tested that on the test server and my phoenix was capless in under 10 seconds. And even so, star destroyers dont have a"tank"past passive tanking, so concord could kill them sooner or later. Also they have the uber jammers of death capable of perma jamming everyone so...Yeah.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:54:00 - [82] Originally by: pwnedgato There are at least 1 trillion settled worlds in the SW galaxy I somehow doubt manpower is much of an issue. As for hit and run strikes the Empire can do them too. Hyperspace into a planet with just a few ISDs then initiate a BDZ. Few hours later planet is completely de-populated and uninhabitable for at least 40 years. Just repeat that on the few thousand settled systems. OK. Maybe you're right. And depopulating settled planets affects the capsuleer population how, precisely? Or the population in the stations, for that matter. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Bahhs Deep	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:11:00 - [83] Originally by: Gone'Postal Originally by: Terianna Eri (also for reference a star destroyer is about 1.5-2x as long as a battleship, varying by race. The Apoc is almost as large as a star destroyer) + the ST has so much more in the way of firepower, only downside is not all of it's guns can fire at 1 target. due to line of sight, gun depression angles, angle of attack of SD. All guns can hit same target if the SD is facing within about 60 degrees of its' target.
Khadur Minmatar Black Water.	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:02:00 - [84] Originally by: Patch86 OH, and fun linky. haha the borg cube would own everything.
DroneCommander Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:55:00 - [85] Originally by: Khadur Originally by: Patch86 OH, and fun linky. haha the borg cube would own everything. Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated. ------------- Now I'm sad...
Zalathar Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:58:00 - [86] my vote would be for the EvE forces, as they probably control over 10k planets (at least). They may not be united, but each empire has several titans (laregr than the capsuleer versions), quite a few motherships and lots of capitals. The capsuleers have at least 10 (probably more, have not followed politics lately) titans, and by now many tens of motherships. peak players hase gone over 40k, so there are alot of capsuleers available. Eve ships are comaparatively highly manoevrable (turn in a few seconds and are unaffected by the rules of physics), no star destroyer can do that, and they warp extremely quick (battleships warp at around 540 000 000 km/s if my calculations are right), which is far faster than starwars ships can ever manage. On the downside noncapitals rely on jumpgates to travel, which an be detroyed or blokaded, unless they have jumpbridges (POS or titan based). So lets compare forces: Empires capital fleet: 1 deathstar (if there is one at the time, they both only existed for short amounts of time) several super star destroyers (titan equivalents), not more than 10 large amounts of star destroyers and smaller versions, which i cant remeber then name of. lets say there are 1000 SD, and 5000 including smaller ships each stardestroyer officially carries 72 tie fighters, so you end up with 72k tie fighters (equivalent to light drones) EVE: 15 or so empire titans (3 times the size of capsuleer ones) around 200 motherships at least 1000 carriers. at least 1000 dreads. then 30k capsuleers in ships of various sizes the same number again (or more) of empire navies and CONCORD. possibility of jovian motherships (of which they have 3) with planet killer like lasers (eliminating whole clusters of imperial class armageddons in one hit, so capable of taking out star destroyers in one shot, and damaging any eventual deathstars) WEAPONRY AND DEFENCE: turbolasers: equivalent to capital laser batteries. each imperial class star destroyer has 4, and does not need to go into siege mode for full effect. laser: each star destroyer has 2 quad laser batteries ofr defence fighters: each star destroyer carries 72 TIE ships (typically 48 tie fighters, 12 bombers and 12 boarding craft) tractor beam: essentially the equivalent of a webifier. shields: the star destroyer has heavy shields, but when they are taken down, they are quite vulnerable. (1 hit to the bridge destroyed a super star destroyer) Ions cannons: work essentially like ECM and a web comcined. The ship loses locks and is BRIEFLY imobilised. Needs to be very lareg to affect very large ships. EVE: -capital weaponry matches turbolasers -tie fighters are the equivalents of light drones. an eve ship carries fewer, but can deal with TIE fighter with smartbombs. carriers carry more drones than a star destroyer. -a torpedo is equivalent to a high megatone thermonuclear weapon. A citadel torpedo might reach into the hundreds of megatones, and could realistically rip star destroyers to shreds with a few hits. -in game and databse descriptions lead us to believe that light missiles are the equivalent of very light tactical nukes or fuel air bombs, and kestrel can pump them out at an alarming velovity. -stealth bombers can sabotage orbital shipyards where all empire ships need to be built. -eve ships can active tank, and repair armor. After considering the evidence, the empire could make it very difficult for an eve fleet to operate, but eve would win through sheer weight of numbers and weaoonry. The empire could strike at jumpgates and POSes, making it difficult for eve forces, but in an outright battle, the empire's chances are slim. the deathstar must be considered seperatly. Its sheer mass of weaponry is devastating, but the main planet killer laser is not very useful as it can be avoided, but the deathstar has many secondary weapons. the only way to beat it would be through loyts of small ships liek stealth bombers, or by DDD. ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh
Zalathar Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.19 14:14:00 - [87] Originally by: Bahhs Deep Originally by: Gone'Postal Originally by: Terianna Eri (also for reference a star destroyer is about 1.5-2x as long as a battleship, varying by race. The Apoc is almost as large as a star destroyer) + the ST has so much more in the way of firepower, only downside is not all of it's guns can fire at 1 target. due to line of sight, gun depression angles, angle of attack of SD. All guns can hit same target if the SD is facing within about 60 degrees of its' target. The star destoryer features 8 capital size weapons, and a few point defence weapons. half its capital weapons are ion cannons, and thus do no actual damage. its offensive weapons are so far as i can tell: 4 turbolasers, 2 quad lasers and 6 axial small point defence lasers. Starwars lasers, one should remeber are also very inaccurate (most shots show miss), as opposed to amarr laser weapons, who actually travel at the speed of light, and rarely miss large slow targets. One should also remeber, that all large eve ships actually have 16 wepons, but that we can only fire 8 at a time. where the star destroyer really excells, is drone capacity, as i can launch 72 drones/fighters at the same time, including boarding craft. When comparing the two sides, one should also remeber that both operate with their own special version of physics. Eve ships act more like subamrines, and in the starwars world bolts of cohrent light can be avoided, travel at visible speed, and never in quite the same direction. More realistics space combat would probably resemble combat wasp based combat as in the Night's Dawn books. The closest to this that i have been able to find in popular culture is space ship combat like in the warhammer 40K series, where combat is carried out at extreme ranges and from orbit, and even so there is alot of unrealistic stuff to be considered. Am I over analyzing? maybe. ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh
Wired An Eye For An Eye	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:32:00 - [88] I've done some heavy and in depth research on this (thank you wikipedia) and unfortunately i have bad news. If the star wars fleet brought a death star we'd be royally screwed. "No we wouldn't" i hear you cry we can send a torpedo down the exhaust port and blow it up. Actually you couldn't. The death star had a diameter between 120 and 160km, this means a radius of 60-80km. With maxed skills, rigs and javelin torps i don't quite think it would be possible to get a torpedo to travel this far. After travelling down "the trench" towards the exhaust port, when you fire the torpedo the torpedo would accelerate to it's maximum velocity, it would then need to slow down to change it's trajectory to go down the port and accelerate upto it's maximum velocity. It is at this point where the torpedo fails. And we couldn't take the shield generators down as CCP wont let us down on planets yet. *someone will now point out that i have mixed stats from both the first and second death stars, but i don't care. ============================================= My sig got edited, and all i got was a lousy e-mail
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.19 21:18:00 - [89] Originally by: Wired I've done some heavy and in depth research on this (thank you wikipedia) and unfortunately i have bad news. If the star wars fleet brought a death star we'd be royally screwed. "No we wouldn't" i hear you cry we can send a torpedo down the exhaust port and blow it up. Actually you couldn't. The death star had a diameter between 120 and 160km, this means a radius of 60-80km. With maxed skills, rigs and javelin torps i don't quite think it would be possible to get a torpedo to travel this far. After travelling down "the trench" towards the exhaust port, when you fire the torpedo the torpedo would accelerate to it's maximum velocity, it would then need to slow down to change it's trajectory to go down the port and accelerate upto it's maximum velocity. It is at this point where the torpedo fails. And we couldn't take the shield generators down as CCP wont let us down on planets yet. *someone will now point out that i have mixed stats from both the first and second death stars, but i don't care. You raise a valid point, except that I don't think that X-wings fire torpedoes in the eve sense. A better comparison would be a light missile. With maxed skills and missile rigs, ships like the humble condor can get a 94km range on light missils, which would in fact be far enough to reach the center of the death star. __________________________________
Verital	Posted - 2008.04.19 23:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Terianna Eri You raise a valid point, except that I don't think that X-wings fire torpedoes in the eve sense. A better comparison would be a light missile. With maxed skills and missile rigs, ships like the humble condor can get a 94km range on light missils, which would in fact be far enough to reach the center of the death star. Problem. Frigates in EVE are huge compared to X-Wings. That trench isn't very big, so even if the poor frigate could fit in there, it would get pwned since it cant really dodge anything coming at it So the missile would have to fly that much further, and be PERFECTLY aimed from a weird angle. Now figure in that the EVE star cluster dosn't know about, and has no way of learning about, that little design flaw



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