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[Proposal] Instanced PvE for Christmas at the cost of avatar detail level

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Jerec Bratt Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:02:00 - [1] - Quote Well, what I think pretty much everyone would be happy about would be a PVE environment in-station. First thing to do is scaling down the polycounts on these models and zooming the camera out. Yeah, sure, you put so much effort in these models being awesome, and they are too. But if I wanted to produce a cool game feature really fast, I'd of think getting 2 people on the team figuring out how to implement Level Of Detail models on the avatars, and then get the camera far away from the avatar, so it gets small and low detail. With less details on the model we'll get less boiling motherboards when a couple of NPCs show up. And then you get a team of Level Designers creating like 20 large interior blocks that can be arranged into random levels and spawn mobs there. Yeah, someone will have to write an AI at this point too. Players will get missions, spawn in these random instances and run around shooting these NPCs like crazy, and best part is, that if they die, they just wake up in the station's cloning bay. And if you get more people on the team you can even create something like Storybricks (google it, it's an AWESOME IDEA) to make the instances more story-aligned. I don't really care as much for the polish of the avatars - sure you (CCP) want it to be top-shelf material, but as far as gameplay goes, a really small (diablo3-like) model in an ass-large interior running and shooting stuff, while sightseeing cool station interior spaces (cloning tanks, concord docking bays, ship cargoholds) would be a dream-come-true for most of the players. And please notice, that I am talking PVE here, which means that during this 'mission' the player is in an instanced random encounter, so that you (CCP) won't have to figure out all the complexities of coop/pvp gameplay, and the player will play with no jacks ninja-warping in on him. Frankly, this is very much a half-feature, BUT you already got the whole WiS as a half-feature. I bet replacing CQ with/or simply adding on top of CQ an instanced PVE game would generate a hell of a lot of newcomers. And it's not hard to figure out, that PVE instances would reward players with ISK and PVE related items. It's not hard to figure out, that it can tie to the rest of the game by providing modules that are not-PVE realted, or even providing locations to instanced missions (you killed a mob on station and now you know where their base is). It's not hard to figure out that you'd have to have a clone ready for this type of encounters, beacause it would be really sad to lose those implants in a fight aboard a station. Optional cheap Battleclones, for on-station use only could peobably make an entry. It figures you'd have to have character designers modelling dogs, slaves, escaped clones, Sansha's cyborgs and all other opponents. It figures, that you'd probably want to make it possible one day to make this a coop/PVP thing, which would require the feature to be prepared for mass player overload. The option for a single player to storm another player's/corp hangar protected by corp merc NPCs and/or Concord guards stays open, as it would run on the same frame with some minor tweaks (but I wouldn't go there, really). Removing the PVP aspect is what can make it easy for you to implement this type of thang while not removing all the fun of killing stuff AND letting a new player immerse in the wonderful world of EVE Online more than anytime before. I'd be realy happy to see everyone take a point on the topic.
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 311	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:06:00 - [2] - Quote Thanks for your rather lengthy proposal. When you develop your game, I'll be interested in taking a look at it. If you aren't developing a game, I suggest going with the decaf. Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 371	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:10:00 - [3] - Quote Clearly, crappy half-finished, pve incarna trash is just what we need to keep eve from dying! Your genius has saved everyone! http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec
Ajita al Tchar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:10:00 - [4] - Quote lol instanced PvE in EVE, especially the kind that rewards you with ISK and items.
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 445	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:11:00 - [5] - Quote How about no? Also, the Features and Ideas section of the forums is that way ---> The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
BeforetheStorm90 The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance 11	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:20:00 - [6] - Quote So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_- Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence. So yeah, nice going there.
So Sensational Ventures 4	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:26:00 - [7] - Quote BeforetheStorm90 wrote: So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_- Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence. So yeah, nice going there. Maybe that's why WoW has 10 million subs and EVE has 400k? (Owned)
BeforetheStorm90 The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance 11	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:30:00 - [8] - Quote So Sensational wrote: BeforetheStorm90 wrote: So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_- Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence. So yeah, nice going there. Maybe that's why WoW has 10 million subs and EVE has 400k? (Owned) I really hope you're joking. The worst possible thing to happen to this game would be for to become yet another WoW clone.
Bischopt Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 79	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:45:00 - [9] - Quote what is this i dont even...
Jack Tronic borkedLabs 43	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:47:00 - [10] - Quote The wonderful world of EVE includes and intends PVP EVERYWHERE including highsec.
Ammzi Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 831	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:50:00 - [11] - Quote I can't believe no one else has said this. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO **** man, rather put EVE out of its misery than what you are describing. I sincerely hope this is a troll. quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Jerec Bratt Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.02.28 18:51:00 - [12] - Quote KrakizBad wrote: Clearly, crappy half-finished, pve incarna trash is just what we need to keep eve from dying! Your genius has saved everyone! It's a half-feature, beacause there's no Player-player interaction involved. Preparing this sort of thing for Player-player interaction would take months of testing and balancing. I wouldn't want it to be half finished by any means. It's much easier to implement a non-PVP feature (see Incarna) then a full blown feature. And I would not agree that this has anything to do with WoW - the main difference here is the lack of XP. When writing up this post I was rather figuring a way to create the equivalent of hi-sec missions done inside the station. You gain ISK from missions as well as some mission-related modules, and rarely you get something that related to another part of EVE. That's what I had in mind. Right npw EVE Includes PVP everywhere except inside stations - CCP allowed that so this kind of thing they'd probably considered as ok. What's important for me is to know, if sacrificing the quality of the godlike models of Incarna is ok with the playerbase. Right now CCP is braking it's neck trying to figure out how to display two of these awatars without melting down any graphic cards. If quality of the models went down, you'd get multiple models on screen just like that, and with this the feature I describe, as well as in any future PVP content based on the very same framework.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 213	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:00:00 - [13] - Quote So Sensational wrote: BeforetheStorm90 wrote: So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_- Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence. So yeah, nice going there. Maybe that's why WoW has 10 million subs and EVE has 400k? (Owned) WoW caters to the lowest common denominator to gain those subs. Pure numbers mean very little when you're talking about a game with the same depth as Janet and John book. Go own yourself in a quiet spot somewhere. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...
Tagera Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound 40	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:01:00 - [14] - Quote If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 213	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:07:00 - [15] - Quote Tagera wrote: If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP. It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...
THE L0CK Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:12:00 - [16] - Quote So Sensational wrote: BeforetheStorm90 wrote: So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_- Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence. So yeah, nice going there. Maybe that's why WoW has 10 million subs and EVE has 400k? (Owned) So go back to WOW then. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Tagera Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound 40	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:12:00 - [17] - Quote Serge Bastana wrote: Tagera wrote: If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP. It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it.
Chiggy W Hard-Luck Industries 63	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:17:00 - [18] - Quote What is this I don't even........eurrgh.......Instanced PVE in my Eve? No interaction from players outside the "instance"? You don't really get "Eve" do you? Do us all a favor and find another MMO if you want instanced PVE. Stop trying to make my precious Eve into some kind of themepark MMO hell. Instances have no place in the sand box
Velicitia Open Designs 687	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:20:00 - [19] - Quote Tagera wrote: Serge Bastana wrote: Tagera wrote: If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP. It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it. even if you wanted to, I'm still pretty sure Aura wouldn't let you install it.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 3315	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:22:00 - [20] - Quote Thank you for suggesting SW:ToR the dying duck of the year. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Jerec Bratt Ministry of War Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:23:00 - [21] - Quote It was not me saying things about themepark or planning an instance only feature. Well, I'd wish for WiS to have the ultra great graphics Incarna now has, only with better animation, and the instanced interiors to be a battlegrounds for housands of players to battle for their corporations accompanied by droids and mercenaries. But I am no fool. I see CCP struggling with the same issues in WiS for 6 years now and it's obvious they can't pull the dream version off anytime soon. So my solution is - find something that while pushing the idea forward is not a no-feature (like CQ was) and brings a lot of fun into the game while is somewhat cost-effectife (including money, time and employees). What I decribed is (probably) a place when we can get really fast, and I imagine that as soon as it's possible CCP would iterate on the feature to make it as PVP as it should be. First things first tough. Lower graphic requirements for Incarna would mean you could exit the CQ, but then what? Walking around, typing /dance? I'd rather shoot some frakking mercenaries and robots instead with the hope to shoot at other players in the future.
Chiggy W Hard-Luck Industries 64	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:26:00 - [22] - Quote Jerec Bratt wrote: I'd rather shoot some frakking mercenaries and robots instead with the hope to shoot at other players in the future. Well, I guess it would put a new spin on fighting the bot's in Jita
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 314	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:26:00 - [23] - Quote Jerec Bratt wrote: It's much easier to implement a non-PVP feature (see Incarna) then a full blown feature. I guess you miss the point entirely. It's easy to sit back in the digital world and imagine how someone else should use their time, money, manpower and resources. There seems to be a gang of "players" who think all they need to do is propose their (always) well-considered and watertight ideas, and someone else is automatically obliged to make the investment which amounts to thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars...or in the case of Iceland, goat's teeth. (Be that as it may.) On a finer point, as is always the case with such dreamers who couldn't possibly find the wherewithal to develop a game themselves, your idea is to turn one game into another game. Make a list of your favorite things in your "other" favorite game, implement in this game, PRESTO, the perfect game...to you. One never finds in proposals such as yours, "Hey, I've got an extra $250,000. How about taking that and..." It's as though you think your whim is cause enough to spend that ton of money...just 'cause your idea is so...smart. I'm posting this in the hopes that others like you will read it and let it sink into your brains that just because you think of something it doesn't oblige others to do it. However, if you've got the financing...it's a small task (corporatese here) for YOU to muster the manpower, facilities and make it happen. We're not holding our collective breath over that, though. "You know what you can do with all your time, manpower and money? Take a long walk off a short pier." Do you like that proposal? Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 445	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:31:00 - [24] - Quote Jerec Bratt wrote: KrakizBad wrote: Clearly, crappy half-finished, pve incarna trash is just what we need to keep eve from dying! Your genius has saved everyone! It's a half-feature, beacause there's no Player-player interaction involved. It's a "half-feature" because CCP didn't fully know what they actually wanted to accomplish in terms of engaging, meaningful game-play, and because they coded themselves down some dead ends more then once and had to start over. Then the money and patience of the subscribers dried-up soon after. Next, I suppose you will be advocating "arena-based PVP" like some of the other people around here that seem to want to turn EVE into WoW. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Jerec Bratt Ministry of War Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:40:00 - [25] - Quote I really do not want to force anyone to using their money in the way they would noy want to do that. Reality is, there is a devblog which suggests that plans on any type of WiS were all thrown away and they are now starting to figure out what exactly needs to be done. I think, that creating a medium graphics-quality PVE-only gameplay loaded with action and taking place in the interiors of EVE stations would be a win-win: presenting the world, easy access for new players, another feature for those who eagerly await one, lots of exploding robots and dying mercenaries, new type of interesting missions and the perspective of using the same framework for player-player interactions, be it coop or PvP . Also, I am not explicitly forbidding PvP anywhere, so please stop trolling. PvP in WiS is a must. I am prioritizing PvE, beacause, like it or not, it would bring some new subscribers to EVE, and that would increase CCPs income and thus allowed them to finance the development of Incarna PVP iterations.
Darth Gustav Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 95	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:41:00 - [26] - Quote Jerec Bratt wrote: I really do not want to force anyone to using their money in the way they would noy want to do that. Reality is, there is a devblog which suggests that plans on any type of WiS were all thrown away and they are now starting to figure out what exactly needs to be done. I think, that creating a medium graphics-quality PVE-only gameplay loaded with action and taking place in the interiors of EVE stations would be a win-win: presenting the world, easy access for new players, another feature for those who eagerly await one, lots of exploding robots and dying mercenaries, new type of interesting missions and the perspective of using the same framework for player-player interactions, be it coop or PvE . Only if the "payscale" doesn't exceed a few dozen ISK.
Micheal Dietrich Standards and Practices 111	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:50:00 - [27] - Quote Jerec Bratt wrote: It was not me saying things about themepark or planning an instance only feature. Well, I'd wish for WiS to have the ultra great graphics Incarna now has, only with better animation, and the instanced interiors to be a battlegrounds for housands of players to battle for their corporations accompanied by droids and mercenaries. They've been working on this, it's called Dust.
Jerec Bratt Ministry of War Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.28 20:56:00 - [28] - Quote the mission payscale is related to the challenge the mission poses. I assume that kind of balance between the rewards and the risks taken would be in place here as well. Quote: They've been working on this, it's called Dust. It is true that CCp is developing a game called DUST514 that is a battleground for thousands of players. The only problem is it does not take place in station interiors nor can you play on any PC. Quote: It's a "half-feature" because CCP didn't fully know what they actually wanted to accomplish in terms of engaging, meaningful game-play, and because they coded themselves down some dead ends more then once and had to start over. Then the money and patience of the subscribers dried-up soon after. Next, I suppose you will be advocating "arena-based PVP" like some of the other people around here that seem to want to turn EVE into WoW. I do not want to turn EVE into WoW. But from a technical standpoint I am sure that there will never be a truly sandbox avatar environment in EVE - CCP will not handmake every station in every system for players to walk them. CQ are already instanced, and will only allow players you invite in. Noone will never storm you CQ and steal your stuff from it, because it is an instance. So station interiors will be limited, and you will only have so much access to station's interiors - your instanced CQ, an instance of an establishment and a common area to walk in, most probably large enough to not see he whole crowd of avatars (!boiling motherboards) Yes, CCP created content with only a shade of true purpose behind the workload, and it came out mostly useless to the players. But their intent to create a half-feature remains. They went from massive expansions to iterating, which means they put in unpolished stuff in most of the time and only tweak it after 'battletesting' on TQ. My idea caters to that - what better test to the battling system would there be then to let players fight bots for a year and/or a half, before releasing a PVP version with higher resolution models. My call is, that you can't achieve a groundbraking success with an avatar based MMO without combat in it. If they want to put this in the game fast, it'll be PVE only, with limited number of instances. but it'll generate enough newcomers an income to go forward, and that is what we all want for EVE - to flourish.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 216	Posted - 2012.02.28 21:00:00 - [29] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Tagera wrote: Serge Bastana wrote: Tagera wrote: If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP. It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it. even if you wanted to, I'm still pretty sure Aura wouldn't let you install it. A friend of mine, who is a big Trek fan, played it in beta. He only lasted a few weeks before he'd reached max level in it and was bored stupid, he was soon back to eve with a vengeance. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...
Lt Angus Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 59	Posted - 2012.02.28 21:12:00 - [30] - Quote Serge Bastana wrote: Velicitia wrote: Tagera wrote: Serge Bastana wrote: Tagera wrote: If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP. It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it. even if you wanted to, I'm still pretty sure Aura wouldn't let you install it. A friend of mine, who is a big Trek fan, played it in beta. He only lasted a few weeks before he'd reached max level in it and was bored stupid, he was soon back to eve with a vengeance. played it for 5 days, got to max level, full XII gear and capped EC then its like now what :-/

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