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Why local can't be removed

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Ravenal The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.21 01:53:00 - [1] Lets assume local is gone. You then have to use a scout to keep track of who are going in and out of "your" space. This sorta provides an intel profession which is good in a way. The problem however is then the ability to log out and later log back in very secretly and thus evading any sort of scouting intel that would have caught you. If scanner or something like that could pick up a "logged out signature", that might do the trick. Anyway, it simply removing local and denying people to be able to actively scout for enemies doesnt work. just my opinion... .
Mal Plox Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:12:00 - [2] I would like to take this opportunity and not just thank you for starting a new thread on this issue, but also to express my admiration for your dedication to making EVE a better place for us all. I would also like to subscribe to your newsletter. --- And no, Internet isn't broken! Well, it is... but not in the way you think of it.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:16:00 - [3] Seriously, dooooooooon't staaaaaaaaart.
Ravenal The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:19:00 - [4] I have read hundreds of posts about removing local ... dont recall there ever having been made a connection to the issue I raised in the OP. so, thus the observation and hopefully it will help make the game better (specially with this bacon stuff going about). otherwise I'm sorry for "doing it again" ... .
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:28:00 - [5] Patrols, wandering coverts, bored solo inty pilots, good alliance organization with effective com channels.... Nevermind both sides will be equaly blind anyway.
Asika Kazama Warp Asylum.	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:30:00 - [6] =) Asika.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:42:00 - [7] and for the 100th time alliances in 0.0 space would be able to build a pos structure that would show who is using the gate in real time. you would need sov3-4 to build this thus for people that need to watch their space they still can.
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:46:00 - [8] Originally by: MotherMoon and for the 100th time alliances in 0.0 space would be able to build a pos structure that would show who is using the gate in real time. you would need sov3-4 to build this thus for people that need to watch their space they still can. Its already too easy for the large alliances to defend thier space. If you effectively gave them local and not the attacks it would be even easier.
Monkey Saturday SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.04.21 02:50:00 - [9] Local, Bacon, scanning, changing stuffs, why don't we all quit now? Or...we can just play the game? Crazy idea I know.
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.04.21 03:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Monkey Saturday Local, Bacon, scanning, changing stuffs, why don't we all quit now? Or...we can just play the game? Crazy idea I know. It's a weekend effect, man. Jita freezes up, forums go nuts... it'll pass
Newbear	Posted - 2008.04.21 03:02:00 - [11] I say keep local but make new ppl entering system anon. You have to make visual contact with them to see their personal info and what ship they are flying ect. Maintains an element of suprise for 1-man pies and keep the game interesting for ratters and mish runners. Sure pretty obvious when local suddenly fills up with 10 anon ppl. Smart pies would send in a solo tackler/scout then the rest of the fleet follows when the target is scramed. One thing I do want in local is a display of other pilots sec status next to their pictures in the local chat box. I hate having to right click to show info on each mofo that enters system.
motomysz DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.21 03:09:00 - [12] I still maintain that the 'Constellation' channel should replace local.
Polcor Rodal Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:46:00 - [13] Check this one -> Suggestion of Scanner & Sensors Take care, bears.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:30:00 - [14] Don't remove local!!! That's where the fun smack happens () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Ravenal ...more words... Original content in my forums?!? oh wait no its not.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Ravenal Lets assume local is gone. You then have to use a scout to keep track of who are going in and out of "your" space. This sorta provides an intel profession which is good in a way. The problem however is then the ability to log out and later log back in very secretly and thus evading any sort of scouting intel that would have caught you. If scanner or something like that could pick up a "logged out signature", that might do the trick. Anyway, it simply removing local and denying people to be able to actively scout for enemies doesnt work. just my opinion... Add POS module which generates local for anyone on the modules list (corp, alliance, standings based) when it's up and running. Now you have a way of having a 'home' advantage which takes logistics, skills and ISK. dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Ravenal Lets assume local is gone. You then have to use a scout to keep track of who are going in and out of "your" space. This sorta provides an intel profession which is good in a way. The problem however is then the ability to log out and later log back in very secretly and thus evading any sort of scouting intel that would have caught you. If scanner or something like that could pick up a "logged out signature", that might do the trick. Anyway, it simply removing local and denying people to be able to actively scout for enemies doesnt work. just my opinion... Removing local requires ships to have some sort of radar system, you can't just kill local... A sensor strenght based radar for all ships that give you this nice plate in your corner with red and blue icons (standings based, configurable with overview) If you hold over a icon on your radar, it will highlight in overview (if appliable) The scanning system has a set of rules already made that can be incorperated into this radar. Don't bring up the ship scanner, its to ankward, and low tech, really. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:05:00 - [18] Originally by: motomysz I still maintain that the 'Constellation' channel should replace local. In a way it's even worse than local. It allows you to see beyond the system, which local doesnt. That was discussed in one of devblogs lately, probably even in live one. Bottomline of Dev position on this, is that local is a huge part of game tactics. You cant just remove it without giving any substitute to it. Directional scanner capabilities are way too primitive to provide for this. TYhe whole scanning system of the ship ans well of interface has to be reworked before any removal of local can be talked about.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:08:00 - [19] If u dont like local - minimize the local window - and its GONE! Any further questions?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Soulita If u dont like local - minimize the local window - and its GONE! Any further questions? Give me the option to force it to be minimized on your screen as well if you are in the same system with me and you have a deal.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Soulita If u dont like local - minimize the local window - and its GONE! Any further questions? Give me the option to force it to be minimized on your screen as well if you are in the same system with me and you have a deal. Meh, no. I can handle my screen myself, thank you very much.
Cissnei	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:39:00 - [22] because, clearly, pirates and wannabe's need more tools to help them. as if the game isnt already skewed to make pirating far easier than it should be. why not ask for concord to be removed or changed while you are at it.
SketS Minmatar Precision Engineering Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:47:00 - [23] without local, fluffy cows would die we wouldnd want that now do we? Only an idiot quotes himself -SketS
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Soulita If u dont like local - minimize the local window - and its GONE! Any further questions? Sure, how about this: If I choose to disable local so I can't see you, I don't appear in your local so you can't see me. The only way to view local is to make yourself visible in it. So if Garry the Ganker wants to come looking for Mort the Miner and Ralph the Ratter, he can take his chances doing it the old fashioned way, or rely on his scanning skills. Mort and Ralph can make a similar choice; make themselves visible or rely on their scanning skills. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:57:00 - [25] Ok, then let's do this. You don't want local removed? Fine. You lose all rights to whine about "afk cloakers" ever again. I think that would be fair.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 12:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Cissnei because, clearly, pirates and wannabe's need more tools to help them. as if the game isnt already skewed to make pirating far easier than it should be. why not ask for concord to be removed or changed while you are at it. Um, you realise that local is used by both sides. Your statement seems to be predictated on the idea that pirates and gankers have special magical tools to help them which aren't available to people in Hulks and Ravens. Not so. But the most valuable tool used by pirates and gankers is... (wait for it, wait for it...) LOCAL! How is a pirate going to know if you're mining/ratting/whatever? Well he'll have to go and check the belts. All of them. In every system he goes through. See how that changes things? And how is a pirate going to know if he's been spotted by an alt in a covops and there's a recon gang lurking by your hulk? Oh my! Is it safe for him to attack? He has no idea! See how that changes things? Of course, he could tab into local to see if there's anything there, but only at the cost of making himself visible too. There are map tools, but as those who use them know, they can be a little ambiguous to say the least when it comes to fine-grained, recent information. Making local optional rewards team play and smart players. The people most affected will be macroers, AFKers, casual gankers and people who won't organise. The old style nanoer racing through 12 systems in 10 minutes looking for a cheap gank will be the big loser. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:24:00 - [27] Quessing. No local would make "controlling territory" alot more challenging. That in mind would it not "shrink" some systems out of control of alliances? Wouldnt that maybe create something desperately needed by eve: uncontrolled, empty, not-owned space?
Isobe Mitsu	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Isobe Mitsu on 21/04/2008 15:33:55 Originally by: Ravenal Lets assume local is gone. You then have to use a scout to keep track of who are going in and out of "your" space. This sorta provides an intel profession which is good in a way. The problem however is then the ability to log out and later log back in very secretly and thus evading any sort of scouting intel that would have caught you. How is this a problem? The "Intel agents" if they were any good would know the person didn't leave and therefor is marked as possible logged out, cloaked or somewhere within the system. It just depends on how baddly you want to know every person in the system.
Blanked Protection Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:51:00 - [29] Me think it pretty sad the rookie channel is gone after 30 days. Plz remove corp channel instead of local there is only smack in it.
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:17:00 - [30] I support the CONSTELLATION chat fix; BECAUSE it adds an entire constellation to smack that maybe one laggy grid simply cannot contain. You can fit two entire alliances in some constellations... Perfect for amazing ventrilo convos and soooo much forum drama! CAOD WOULD EXPLODE! Goons make this happen!

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