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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Roffell	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:17:00 - [1] And that's pretty much it. I try to start but get an error message after I get past the small "loadingscreen". The error message is: AppName: exefile.exe AppVer: 4.10.0.51631 ModName: _trinity.dll ModVer: 4.10.0.52095 Offset: 0004963e
Blanked Protection Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:20:00 - [2] Uhhh time for you to upgrade youre PC m8 i think I`m running 3 clients "Premium" on my PC and it goes pretty smooth.
HuckBuckler	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:43:00 - [3] try runing each client from a different folder and also try turing off eft or eve monitor when launching a secound client

CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.05 11:25:00 - [4] rules to run multiple eve clients: * every client needs its one installation/copy of the eve folder * deactivate the sound in the clients (its possible to run one client with sound but not more than one) * run in window mode (if your pc is getting slow minimize the windows for a short while - 1 or 2 seconds - this will reset the memory and cleans up all the stuff trinity is loading into the ram to make the game faster) * best combination is 1 premium 1 classic client, but 2 premium should work too with enough RAM and the last point * dont blame CCP if anything is going wrong, we only support one client per machine (I run multiple clients all the time, but official support is something totally different.)

Lunch Money Teylas Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:38:00 - [5] SUpport or not, you do know this was working fine before last big patch?? Patch that broke this game, give more and more bugs and gave us few new silly things like brackets which I HATE.
Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Kalmanaka on 08/05/2008 04:50:37 That's got to be the worst cop out answer ever. I hate it when devs just make stuff up to appease people instead of being straight with us and telling us you can't fix the problem. You wouldn't do that though because then we'd finally cancel our extra accounts that we can't use anyway. Did the "Power of 2" promotion say anywhere that we must have separate computers for each new account we opened? I'd love to see the disclaimer in that promotion. You promote it, you support it. Don't screw your customers over like that. I've been running 3 accounts from 3 separate folders for a long time, sound off, in windowed mode, with the LUA:OFF switch. Since that patch that broke everything I can only run 2 clients at a time and get constant white outs. Launching a 3rd makes everything go crazy and crash. Your "rules" mean nothing and help nothing.
Kaldira	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Kalmanaka Did the "Power of 2" promotion say anywhere that we must have separate computers for each new account we opened? I'd love to see the disclaimer in that promotion. You promote it, you support it. Don't screw your customers over like that. I've been running 3 accounts from 3 separate folders for a long time, sound off, in windowed mode, with the LUA:OFF switch. Since that patch that broke everything I can only run 2 clients at a time and get constant white outs. Launching a 3rd makes everything go crazy and crash. Your "rules" mean nothing and help nothing. I have to totally agree with you there and the dev statement makes me a touch unhappy. Like you before Trinity no problem at all running 3 clients, now 2 clients is dodgy and 3 is a no no.

CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:22:00 - [8] My System: Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254) Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz (2 CPUs) Memory: 2048MB RAM Page File: 1955MB used, 4030MB available DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904) Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT On this System multiple clients (tested up to 4) work fine, I used only premium clients form one or multiple installations. Could you guys please post your system information so I can try to run the test on a machine which is more similar to yours? __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer

Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:16:00 - [9] I run 3 clients at the same time, premium mode, all sound ON, from the same folder. I did have a few issues after trinity, but a BIOS, Graphics, and Chipset driver update fixed all of that. Sometimes I fire up the 3rd client it will drop fps to like 10, but I just restart all three and it's fine. I avg about 60fps most of the time in missions. Never heard about having to turn sound off or run from separate folders. I also usually have media player going with a movie or TV show at the same time :) Windows XP, Quad-core 6600, Geforce 8800gt, onboard realtek HD sound. Guess I'm just lucky.
Riven Starkill Caldari Lords of New Eden The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:46:00 - [10] Quoting for accuracy: Originally by: CCP Sputnik rules to run multiple eve clients: ... and the last point * dont blame CCP if anything is going wrong, we only support one client per machine (I run multiple clients all the time, but official support is something totally different.) And the appropriate response is: Originally by: Kalmanaka Edited by: Kalmanaka on 08/05/2008 04:50:37 That's got to be the worst cop out answer ever. I hate it when devs just make stuff up to appease people instead of being straight with us and telling us you can't fix the problem. You wouldn't do that though because then we'd finally cancel our extra accounts that we can't use anyway. Did the "Power of 2" promotion say anywhere that we must have separate computers for each new account we opened? I'd love to see the disclaimer in that promotion. You promote it, you support it. Don't screw your customers over like that. I've been running 3 accounts from 3 separate folders for a long time, sound off, in windowed mode, with the LUA:OFF switch. Since that patch that broke everything I can only run 2 clients at a time and get constant white outs. Launching a 3rd makes everything go crazy and crash. Your "rules" mean nothing and help nothing. This reply is totally on the mark. Sorry CCP Sputnik but you really NEED to answer this. Your "last point" above is simply not an acceptable answer for a company that has been pushing "multiple clients" to its customers for quite some time now. You have had, what... 2 different "Power of 2" promotions now, IIRC? Kalmanaka is also totally correct that the problem is not some happy horsecrap that "EVE was NEVER intended to run more than one client at a time" since it was working properly BEFORE the patch. The problem is the patch. Something that worked was broken. I know that Devs really don't like to have their words thrown back at them, but your reply was just... wrong. I just wish that CCP could try to think like their customers for once and not give Microsoft-like excuses for problems that we are facing.
Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:29:00 - [11] I have 2 computers I play eve on. Both worked fine before the patch. I could even run 3 clients and turn audio on all 3 and it worked fine without crashing too, though it sounded terrible on the slow computer. Both use separate folders for each eve account with the LUA:OFF switch. The slower one uses the classic content, the faster one uses premium. BOTH have constant whiteouts and sometimes the whitout problem causes a client to crash on launch too. If the bug appears and you don't have a 2nd client running, launching a client causes a crash till you reset the video. I've tried different versions of DirectX 9.0c and different versions of drivers on both. The problem is NOT with peoples hardware. The hardware on these two machines is totally different. It is NOT with their drivers. I've tried many different drivers, video audio and DirectX versions. The problem is NOT people's bios versions. That one actually made me laugh when I read a dev updated their bios and the problem went away. Rediculous. These are nothing but copouts and attempts to pass the buck and deny responsibility for bugs in your code. Everything on these two machines is totally different, including the antivirus they run and programs that are installed. One uses Avast and one uses Panda. Oh wait, both have Firefox. I guess that's next to be blamed? Please do not ever again attempt to blame your customers for problems with your code, and for God's sake if you're going to sell something (Power of 2) then you'd better damn well support it. There are a lot of us that understand that software has bugs, and we understand that sometimes there are problems, but we will NEVER understand attempts to take money from customers and then telling them "HA HA SUCKER! YOU FAIL!" Every single other game I play (which is a lot of them) runs perfectly fine on these computers. I play older slower games on the slow machine, and newer games on the fast one. Eve is the only one with a problem. The slow machine: Operating System - Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional OS Service Pack - Service Pack 4 DirectX - 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c) CPU Type - Intel Pentium 4 541, 3200 MHz (16 x 200) Motherboard Name - Gigabyte GA-8VM800M-775 (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN) Motherboard Chipset - VIA P4M800 Pro System Memory - 2048 MB BIOS Type - Award Modular (02/15/06) 3D Acceleratorn - VIDIA GeForce 6200 AGP (128 MB) Audio Adapter - Realtek ALC655 @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller The fast one: Operating System - Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.1.2600 (WinXP Retail) OS Service Pack - Service Pack 2 DirectX - 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c) CPU Type - DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo E4500, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) Motherboard Name - Asus P5B-VM DO Motherboard Chipset - Intel Broadwater Q965 System Memory - 3072 mb BIOS Type - AMI (10/19/07) Video Adapter - NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT (256 MB) Audio Adapter - Analog Devices AD1988A @ Intel 82801HB ICH8 - High Definition Audio Controller [B-0]
Kaldira	Posted - 2008.05.09 23:14:00 - [12] Before Trinity could run 3 clients - admit not well on the third one but enough to do a mining op with 2 hulks and mining director. Now - run 2 clients for about 10 minutes when attempting to start the 3rd the screen starts flashing and locks up before even getting to log the third one in. Installations are all in seperate folders running classic contents Processor: AMD 2500+ Ram: 2GB GFX: Nvidea 7600GS, 256MB RAM, AGP Swap: 4Gb OS: XP home fully patched upto but not including SP3 NVidia Drivers: Current Audio: Realtek but disabled in the BIOS Machine is freshly installed to check this Second Machine - currently being rebuilt but from memory also exhibited same issues CPU AMD-64: 4300? RAM: 2GB GFX: NVidea 7600GS PCI-E rest as above
Eyee Caldari Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:00:00 - [13] To be serious, im running 2 clients, new graphics, very often on an 1,8 Ghz Pc 2048 ram, nvidia 6800GS, only one eve-installation and never had any trouble...until now:) It still works but the clients slow down and sometimes completly freeze, this only happens from time to time and seems to happen since the last patch was deployed. Not sure exactly.
Jecob	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Jecob on 10/05/2008 00:35:16 Basically, I want to run multiple clients like I used to without the crap that is quite obvious. My computers are capable of running multiple clients of many games and applications and doing a lot of things at once but only since the last few patches (don't know what one exactly) it's just a load of problems for many customers paying for a product they are now not recieving.

CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Riven Starkill Edited by: Riven Starkill on 08/05/2008 12:14:27 Quoting for accuracy: Originally by: CCP Sputnik rules to run multiple eve clients: ... and the last point * dont blame CCP if anything is going wrong, we only support one client per machine (I run multiple clients all the time, but official support is something totally different.) And the appropriate response is: Originally by: Kalmanaka Edited by: Kalmanaka on 08/05/2008 04:50:37 That's got to be the ... nothing. This reply is totally on the mark. ... or the advertiser in Gallente stations. My comment of "we don't support 2 clients" was more of a warning and not "we don't care about you people running multiple clients" the reason why I wrote this is a simple technical (I'm a technician and not marketing - sorry for that.), DirectX, stackless python and our audio engine are generally designed to be used by a single client (which doesn't mean that we are not working on it to get our clients as stable a possible and there for multi client approved - approved = we've tested EVE on multiple machines intensively and we can tell you what system requirements you need for multiple clients and even more important QA spends a lot of time before every patch release on testing machines with multiple clients - and not just using multiple clients for test purposes, which is a big difference) so we are atm not able to GUARANTY you that 2 clients work without issues related to a multiple client use (to finish the brackets from earlier - the hardware requirements are only for a single client with a reason). Ok but before we get into a discussion of "rablerablerable" and "no rablerablerable" - you can see I'm posting here which most likely means we care about players which are using multiple clients to play EVE. I didn't wanted to give any false excuses (btw. that wasn't a excuses, I just told you that technically multiple 3D game clients are problematic and - as far as I know - not supported by ANY game company), I can tell you that we are doing our best to solve all the problems related to multiple clients (which I have to say are mostly problems which are also single client related) and we are atm. working on several updates for graphics, python and audio (release date is not on my to announce sorry). To the rules Ive posted: These rules are based on my (and some of the other guys from QA) experiance with multiple clients and the way to run them as stable as possible (I never said that this is the only way to do it - ok I should have mention it thats a thing you can blame me for. ) I will try (sorry I have a boss who tells me what to do like most people) to test several scenarios on machines which are similar to your machines to reproduce the issues and more important pin down the exact issues which are causing this problems on some machines (and as it seems not on others). Disclaimer (my try to solve the forums problem ): Please people don't just read one part of the dev post and just skip the important parts, all of us working as hard as possible to make this game to the best thing which you can play on the mmo market (its Saturday early afternoon, I'm sitting since over 4 hours in the office and working - and yes I have a girlfriend). I should have taken more time for my earlier answers but forums are additional work and for my defense I have more than enough work to do atm. (which doesn't mean that you are not allowed to rable about my post ) __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer


CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:53:00 - [16] Ok and now something I want to handle in a separate answer PrismX stile: Originally by: Kalmanaka These are nothing but copouts and attempts to pass the buck and deny responsibility for bugs in your code. Everything on these two machines is totally different, including the antivirus they run and programs that are installed. One uses Avast and one uses Panda. Oh wait, both have Firefox. I guess that's next to be blamed? Please do not ever again attempt to blame your customers for problems with your code, and for God's sake if you're going to sell something (Power of 2) then you'd better damn well support it. There are a lot of us that understand that software has bugs, and we understand that sometimes there are problems, but we will NEVER understand attempts to take money from customers and then telling them "HA HA SUCKER! YOU FAIL!" Every single other game I play (which is a lot of them) runs perfectly fine on these computers. I play older slower games on the slow machine, and newer games on the fast one. Eve is the only one with a problem. I have seriously no clue what you are talking about. The simple purpose of my posts was to help anybody who has issues with multiple clients, I've posted these rules because I'm using them to run multiple clients and it works more than just fine for me(it was wrong to call it rules, but as far as I know people which play EVE, rules doesn't really matter) and I've posted my system specs to get you guys to post yours. Why should I even have the purpose to say you suck? I'm doing my job here which is to help people with technical problems, its not talking nice and say what everybody wants to hear (would be cool if I could do this but then I would work anymore and spend my time traveling the work and maybe build a spaceship or something). In my experiance (as a player and developer) game developers are doing their best to evolve their game and particular CCP is not just a company which is developing a game, the most of the stuff you see in EVE is totally new technology - some of this stuff is 10 years old and still far ahead of anything else on the market. To the facts: Yes we struggle sometimes, yes we have bugs in our source code, yes we deleted the boot.ini, yes ... (and so on), but now tell me about a game developer without these issues - look around you how many MMOs are atm out there or in development which are something totally different, with new and un-proofed technology and as a last point which game company is able or even willing to release 2 MAJOR patches for its mmo every year. I don't say just look at the good points but don't miss them especially because some of our issues are related to them. Start your EVE client, log into the game and look around you what amazing stuff is in there and if you want to make it better http://www.ccpgames.com/jobs.aspx or start your own game development studio and get rich with it. Ok let the flame begin ^^ (that wasn't serious). __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer

Riven Starkill Caldari Lords of New Eden The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.05.12 07:21:00 - [17] I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the problem started when you changed your code to be more compliant to MS Vista standards, right? When you changed something that worked - so that you can get some love from MS? Right? I might be completely wrong, but the changes in the patch (and the way our settings were nerfed) look a lot like the ones you made the last time you tried to force us all to be compliant with MS Vista standards. You might need to recognize then that MS's needs are in direct conflict with CCP's needs/desires. MS wants all application data to be stored in a central location. CCP wants players to have (AND PAY FOR!) multiple accounts. Players of EVE will not pay for multiple accounts if they cannot run them at the same time. (most of us, anyways) So, you need to make a decision, I guess. Do you want to have your customers cancel all those "power of 2" accounts so that you can get your nod from MS, or do you want to change it back and keep us satisfied - and paying for those extra accounts?
Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.12 20:01:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Sputnik To the facts: Yes we struggle sometimes, yes we have bugs in our source code, yes we deleted the boot.ini, yes ... (and so on), but now tell me about a game developer without these issues - look around you how many MMOs are atm out there or in development which are something totally different, with new and un-proofed technology and as a last point which game company is able or even willing to release 2 MAJOR patches for its mmo every year. Let me make this clear. Most of us know these things and accept them. We know that there will be bugs and that there will be problems. Yes, they are annoying but we still play. The real problem here is being told that CCP will not support multiple clients after pushing everyone to buy multiple accounts. One of the major things that separates Eve from other games is the ability to play multiple clients. It's one of the main reasons why many of us play. With that one statement you've made us feel like we've been taken advantage of, ripped off, and that the whole point of the Power of 2 promotion was to take our money and screw us over. It's an issue of trust and integrity, not one of coding and bug fixes. We can deal with bugs because we know you're working on them. We trust you here. We can deal with lag because we know you're constantly refining the code and buying new hardware. We trust you here. When you tell us that we should buy multiple accounts, we trust you and buy multiple accounts. When we find out though that we can't use our multiple accounts and that you won't support multiple clients, we no longer trust you. That is the issue. For me personally, this issue will determine whether I keep my accounts or not, and I don't mean that as a "I'm gonna take my toys and leave" kind of threat. It's a matter of practicality. I have 3 accounts but I can only use 2 at a time with much difficulty, and only one reliably. If I think that you are working on the problem and that you are taking it seriously and that CCP will support what they have sold then I will keep them and wait for the fixes, even though it already has been a very long time. However, since I am being told that there is a chance that I will never again be able to use all 3 accounts because CCP doesn't support multiple clients then there simply is no reason to keep them. And no, you can't have my stuff.
Monkey Saturday SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.05.13 00:43:00 - [19] I don't know your problems guys, but after "The Patch What Killed Eve" I've been able to run 2 premium clients with full everything + sound with no issues whatsoever. If I can do it I figure its not ENTIRELY CCP's fault. But if you are so eager to load more than 1 premium client, first ask yourself "why?". What's the point? Run 2 or 3 classics instead and voila, problem solved. shrug I must be missing some big piece of the puzzle as to why this is a huge stuff-givaway issue, so plz forgive me in advance
Riven Starkill Caldari Lords of New Eden The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.05.13 01:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Monkey Saturday I don't know your problems guys, but after "The Patch What Killed Eve" I've been able to run 2 premium clients with full everything + sound with no issues whatsoever. If I can do it I figure its not ENTIRELY CCP's fault. But if you are so eager to load more than 1 premium client, first ask yourself "why?". What's the point? Run 2 or 3 classics instead and voila, problem solved. shrug I must be missing some big piece of the puzzle as to why this is a huge stuff-givaway issue, so plz forgive me in advance Actually, I have 4 clients installed, only one of them is the premium client. I only use that client for looking at the different ship models. I never use it to play. The premium graphics are truly impressive, but, tbh... they were a waste of resources, IMHO. I know that other people have different opinions, and that is fine, I respect that. I just think that the efforts spent on the trinity engine were misplaced. They could have done so much more to improve the game for existing customers by revamping the UI, fixing bugs, or even addressing some long standing game-balancing issues. This is relevant to this discussion. I wish that CCP would start to think like it's customers for once. The trinity engine was something that THEY really wanted. To push the game forward - but most ppl I know would have rather had a UI that works properly. And now I suspect that CCP is again moving in a direction that is contrary to the wishes of the customers. The move towards Vista standards is not really important to the customers - and anything that breaks the ability to PLAY the game is BAD. If there is something in the patch that broke our ability to use multiple clients, then that needs to be fixed - and if that means Vista compliance is shelved - then so be it!
Monkey Saturday SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.05.13 01:59:00 - [21] Agreed with shelving vista compliance. Vista can suck my man-marbles, its a terrible platform. However, I have to stand by my statement saying its not entirely CCP's fault people can't run more than 1 client. There are a lot of factors that'll interfere with multi-client setups, and if I can run more than 1, and all my m8's can as well, then obviously its not all server-side and people should look at their rigs + isp's with the same vigour they have for blaming the server.
Riven Starkill Caldari Lords of New Eden The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.05.13 02:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Monkey Saturday Agreed with shelving vista compliance. Vista can suck my man-marbles, its a terrible platform. However, I have to stand by my statement saying its not entirely CCP's fault people can't run more than 1 client. There are a lot of factors that'll interfere with multi-client setups, and if I can run more than 1, and all my m8's can as well, then obviously its not all server-side and people should look at their rigs + isp's with the same vigour they have for blaming the server. /agreed with your Vista assessment. But I think the problem is not server side, but a change to the client that has resulted in breaking something that worked before.
Kaldira	Posted - 2008.05.13 09:56:00 - [23] The situation described above where the screen starts flashing and the machine locks up can also happen when starting a second client where the first one has been running for some time. Dont even get the opportunity to log on with the second one - both running classic
Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.13 13:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Monkey Saturday I don't know your problems guys, but after "The Patch What Killed Eve" I've been able to run 2 premium clients with full everything + sound with no issues whatsoever. If I can do it I figure its not ENTIRELY CCP's fault. But if you are so eager to load more than 1 premium client, first ask yourself "why?". What's the point? Run 2 or 3 classics instead and voila, problem solved. shrug I must be missing some big piece of the puzzle as to why this is a huge stuff-givaway issue, so plz forgive me in advance Yes you are missing something, the part where myself and many others have said it happens on premium and classic. If just switching to classic fixed the problem there wouldn't be so many posts and threads about it.

CCP Lingorm C C P	Posted - 2008.05.13 14:29:00 - [25] Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 13/05/2008 14:31:35 I play (at home) with multiple clients on multiple machines (3 clients on 1 machine, 1 premium and 2 classic, and 2 on the other, both classic). I have not seen the issues you describe. I use no special configurations other than to have each 'client' installed in a separate directory. If you are using the same installation directory to try to run 1 Premium and 1 Classic client then you will potentially have issues. It is easy enough to create a second EVE install, just copy the c:\program files\ccp\EVE folder into c:\program files\ccp\EVE2 and run the second client from there. This will create a second cache system for the second client and also a second set of settings files etc. I have found that if you try to run multiple accounts from the same install then very occasionally with 2 clients you will get a crash because they both try to access the same resource at the same time. This crash chance increases the more instances of the client that you have loaded. If you use different 'install' directories then the problem goes away. As for the settings (Overview etc) we try to preserve them when possible, but if we have added new filtering options or types to the overview then we usually delete the old ones because to be brutally honest the whinage on the forums is much easy to handle then the increased petition load from people that have lost ships to the new ship types that the Overview does not show (becasue they did not have it turned on in their old overview, so it does not show in the new). So sorry on this but it is just the way it currently is. We are looking at a import/export utility for Overview settings but it is still in concept rather than in design ... but here is hoping. CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.


CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.13 14:58:00 - [26] at first thx guys that we are back on a normal discussion level, that was the main purpose of my posts (we devs like to discuss if it is in a nice manner). If the discussion stays at this level I will try to answer as much as possible questions regarding this topic. Ok lets start: Originally by: Riven Starkill ... code change MS Vista standards. ... The changes we implemented for Vista are mainly, chances of install directorys and over all I have to say I like the new structure (but thats a personal opinion), most of this changes where more of a logical changes which improved the game over all (separating the settings form the normal game installation, separating the settings for every installation and easier access of data exported form game) these changes have over all more of a positive influence on multiple accounts due to easier saving of multiple settings etc. ========================================================== Small break to make this totally clear: LUA:OFF switch is basically outdated because EVE is now saving the settings for every installation separately at: C:\Documents and Settings\[UserName]\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE the setting folders are named [Drive]_[InstallationPath]_[Server] for example: c_program_files_ccp_tq_premium_english_tranquility. LUA:OFF is still working so if you use the switch it store your settings still within your installation folder, which is in my opinion not the best place (I have to reinstall/overwrite my testserver installations very often and I'm very happy that I can just overwrite it without a second thought because my settings are at a total different place) ====================================================== The issue with multiple EVE clients or FPS issues in single clients (especially in the last patch) are more likely connected to other things, if you want to know what else we changed you have to take a look at the patchnotes (this is not about: "he is not allowed to talk", its simply about: the issues are not related to one change particularly and it wouldn't make any sense to point at something which is over all a code improvement but because other code parts are not updated yet the outcome is not as good as expected - and please don't say now: why do you change the game, because if we wouldn't change the game for example BS would still be the largest ships ingame) Originally by: Riven Starkill You might need to recognize then that MS's needs are in direct conflict with CCP's needs/desires. If we really would be just look after MS, EVE would use the registry to save game settings and all of you know what this means Originally by: Kalmanaka The real problem here is being told that CCP will not support multiple clients after pushing everyone to buy multiple accounts. One of the major things that separates Eve from other games is the ability to play multiple clients. It's one of the main reasons why many of us play. At first the issues we have atm. are temporal and we are working on it to solve these problems (I just can say wait for the next patch ). To explain you why I wrote this disclaimer at the end of my first post I will use Linux as a example. In general we support Linux and have downloads for several distributions but if you look at the list of officially supported Linux distributions you will notice that this list is a lot shorter than the other list. That is not because its not possible to play EVE with the non supported distributions but just the fact that its not humanly possible to test every Linux distribution for EVERY PATCH (yes every patch which hits TQ is tested on every supported os). Multiple clients are the same case we work on it to make them perfect but official support is different. next testserver dt more ... __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer

Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:11:00 - [27] As I already posted above I do run each account from it's own folder using the /LUA:OFF switch. On one one of my machines (the slower one) each account has it's own folder. On my faster computer each account is on it's own drive. It used to run blazing fast this way too, before that patch. Something somewhere is connecting the clients and making them crash. I've been messing with it for a while and the only guess I have is that it does have to do with the settings folder, but I have no idea how since they're all separate. Sometimes when I launch a 3rd client it will load up at the wrong resolution. I have to go into options and set it back to where I want it. If I close it and try and restart, it won't launch right. The program appears down in the task bar but the window itself flies way off the screen. I can right click the task bar and do minimize/restore and I can see the window animation as it zooms off the screen. To fix it I have to restore a backup of the settings folder that I made, specifically the pc.dat file, then it works just fine (unless I still have 2 other clients running then it happens again). Something in your code is making different clients interconnect and mess with each other, even if they're on different drives using the LUA:OFF switch. The crash that others describe is directly related to the white screen bug. The exefile.exe/_trinity.dll one. If the whitescreen bug happens when you're only running one client, when you try and launch a 2nd client it just crashes. If you do the graphics reset trick then try and launch it works fine. The whiteout bug is what's causing the exefile crash.
Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:21:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP Sputnik ========================================================== Small break to make this totally clear: LUA:OFF switch is basically outdated because EVE is now saving the settings for every installation separately at: C:\Documents and Settings\[UserName]\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE the setting folders are named [Drive]_[InstallationPath]_[Server] for example: c_program_files_ccp_tq_premium_english_tranquility. LUA:OFF is still working so if you use the switch it store your settings still within your installation folder, which is in my opinion not the best place (I have to reinstall/overwrite my testserver installations very often and I'm very happy that I can just overwrite it without a second thought because my settings are at a total different place) ====================================================== When I made my separate folders for each account, I installed Eve then copied the program files\ccp\eve folder. My tree looks like: program files\ccp\eve1 program files\ccp\eve2 program files\ccp\eve3 Could the problem be that I made copies of the folder instead of running the install program 3 separate times? I'm going to try it but it's going to take a while since I need to download the full client to do it. It could explain why each client seems tied to the other and why one client can break another.

CCP Sputnik C C P	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:29:00 - [29] Edited by: CCP Sputnik on 13/05/2008 15:32:09 could you try out whats happening if you use it once without the LUA:OFF switch, like I wrote earlier, this is no problem anymore because the settings get stored separated anyway. There is a slight possibility that the switch is influencing the game in a bad way (this switch was for internal testing purposes mainly), before I say anything more specific I have to look into the code - it would be nice if I would know if its worth it in first place (thats not my main responsibility and therefore my boss wants me to finish the work which is assigned to me first and if its worth it I would push some extra hours to figure this out today otherwise it has to stand back behind my girlfriend ) THX in advance for the help. Edit: Damn I'm posting to slow ^^. It should be enough if you run your current installations without the lua:off switch, EVE will create the new setting folder then automatically and you can copy your old settings into the new folders (but please run it first with a blank installation just to make sure its not related to the settings). __________________________ CCP Sputnik CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Software Engineer

Kalmanaka Caldari Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:34:00 - [30] I downloaded full classic client and deleted all CCP and Eve directories from "program files" and "documents and settings". I did make a backup of my screenshots and settings folders though. I ran the install 3 times and gave it a custom folder for each install. program files\ccp\eve1 program files\ccp\eve2 program files\ccp\eve3 I changed the shortcuts and removed all the switches, making them regular default shortcuts. The installation program does not make any entries in the documents and folders area. Those are created when you launch the game for the first time. I ran the first client and it came up fullscreen with default graphics options. I changed it to my personal settings since this is a slower machine with an older video card. Windowed, 24 bit color, 1152x864, 24 bit z-buffer. I ran the 2nd. It came up fullscreen with default graphics options. Changed it's settings the same way as the first. I ran the 3rd and this is where things started changing. It came up with different graphics settings than the default. The settings it started with are windowed, 24 bit color, 1280x960, 16 bit z-buffer. I changed them to be the same as the other 2 and logged in. I now have 3 clients running. The fps is horrible, way lower than what it was pre-Trinity. I opened the ship hanger and saw the whiteout bug already. Whatever the bug is, it breaks the backgrounds in space and in icons. http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08202/whiteout1618.jpg http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08202/whiteout4806.jpg I undocked and sure enough there it was. I didn't even have to wait. I was immediately hit with whiteout. http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08202/whiteout2201.jpg This confirms that the LUA:OFF switch is not causing the problems, and that doing individual installs instead of copying the ccp\eve folder doesn't fix it either.

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