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Learning skills necessary at all?

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Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:25:00 - [1] I started to wondering about this issue while trying to find new character for me. When a newb starts this game, he will spend next 1-2 months trying to train learning skills. Or he will train something else like pvp skills or mining skills and is wasting LOT'S of time. I know guys who has tried EVE and didn't upgrade to real account since they don't want to pay month for nothing. Why is it eather train something usefull slowly as hell or train something totally unusefull so you can someday train something faster? And I agree those guys, I would start new characters rightaway if I wouldn't have to spend that 1-2 months on useless learning skills... That's not anyones career in EVE. Why there isn't just basic starter toons with some attribute setups instead of this time wasting? Check character bazaar, there is like 10 M SP characters with nearly nothing on learning - imagine how many months they have wasted? How many of the new players actually reads guides for new character creation and spends the first months on learning skills so he or she can actually start playing the game?
Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:25:00 - [2] I started to wondering about this issue while trying to find new character for me. When a newb starts this game, he will spend next 1-2 months trying to train learning skills. Or he will train something else like pvp skills or mining skills and is wasting LOT'S of time. I know guys who has tried EVE and didn't upgrade to real account since they don't want to pay month for nothing. Why is it eather train something usefull slowly as hell or train something totally unusefull so you can someday train something faster? And I agree those guys, I would start new characters rightaway if I wouldn't have to spend that 1-2 months on useless learning skills... That's not anyones career in EVE. Why there isn't just basic starter toons with some attribute setups instead of this time wasting? Check character bazaar, there is like 10 M SP characters with nearly nothing on learning - imagine how many months they have wasted? How many of the new players actually reads guides for new character creation and spends the first months on learning skills so he or she can actually start playing the game?
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:30:00 - [3] Who says you have to train them all at once? Get a small skillplan to get you into cruisers or something, allow evemon to suggest some learning skills to you and learn them while or after that skillplan along with some others to boost your future skill learning, it pays off.
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:30:00 - [4] Who says you have to train them all at once? Get a small skillplan to get you into cruisers or something, allow evemon to suggest some learning skills to you and learn them while or after that skillplan along with some others to boost your future skill learning, it pays off.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:33:00 - [5] If you only train learning skills its because you want to be uber, and not because you want to play the game. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:33:00 - [6] Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). That said, like Achran says, you can always stagger them so that they produce more effect as your other skill times start to lengthen. A cheap set of implants is also well worth the effort. Sorry if you were looking for a debate instead of straight advice but I'm a bit tired of debates atm. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:33:00 - [7] If you only train learning skills its because you want to be uber, and not because you want to play the game.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:33:00 - [8] Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). That said, like Achran says, you can always stagger them so that they produce more effect as your other skill times start to lengthen. A cheap set of implants is also well worth the effort. Sorry if you were looking for a debate instead of straight advice but I'm a bit tired of debates atm.
Sneeze100	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:39:00 - [9] should this not be in the skill forum
Sneeze100	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:39:00 - [10] should this not be in the skill forum
Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:41:00 - [11] Sorry, I am not looking for suggestion for that should I train learning skills OR not. I just think that they are bad for the game. There is enough skills to spend that time what you have to use for learning..
Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:41:00 - [12] Sorry, I am not looking for suggestion for that should I train learning skills OR not. I just think that they are bad for the game. There is enough skills to spend that time what you have to use for learning..
Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Shintai If you only train learning skills its because you want to be uber, and not because you want to play the game. No, you train learning skills so you can someday ACTUALLY do something in this game.
Fauna Veldnaught	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Shintai If you only train learning skills its because you want to be uber, and not because you want to play the game. No, you train learning skills so you can someday ACTUALLY do something in this game.
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:45:00 - [15] I'll have to disagree there. It's a sort of... entry barrier. You either gimp yourself for a month and a half without actual playing, and then you start skilling like mad because of your high learning skills. Or you can learn your learning skills while learning normal skills, and have a good time playing. The learning skills have been here for a while, and if you don't like them, unsubscribe :)
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:45:00 - [16] I'll have to disagree there. It's a sort of... entry barrier. You either gimp yourself for a month and a half without actual playing, and then you start skilling like mad because of your high learning skills. Or you can learn your learning skills while learning normal skills, and have a good time playing. The learning skills have been here for a while, and if you don't like them, unsubscribe :)
Orchid Ix Behind The Stars	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Achran Dexx You either gimp yourself for a month and a half without actual playing, and then you start skilling like mad because of your high learning skills. Or you can learn your learning skills while learning normal skills, and have a good time playing. I personally learned normal skills while training the learning skills so I wouldn't get bored in my little frigs never regreted it.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Fauna Veldnaught No, you train learning skills so you can someday ACTUALLY do something in this game. Thats like saying the game is bad if I cant do everything right away. If you wanted the game on easy mode you picked the wrong one. Just be happy you dont need to grind for months and months or even years go get anywhere. but that it doesn by itself 24/7.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). This, honestly. The whole "gimp yourself for months" myth comes from the (rather stupid) suggestion in newb chats to go for 5/4 in the skills, which needlessly adds more than a week per attribute to your training. 4/3, otoh, is more than adequate for the kinds of skills you'll be training as a newbie, and getting those levels in relevant attributes takes less than a week.
Mihaill Blackthorn Gallente Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:59:00 - [20] For a new player it doesn't matter too much for the first few months. It makes a huge difference when you start training the 20+ day skills
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). This, honestly. The whole "gimp yourself for months" myth comes from the (rather stupid) suggestion in newb chats to go for 5/4 in the skills, which needlessly adds more than a week per attribute to your training. 4/3, otoh, is more than adequate for the kinds of skills you'll be training as a newbie, and getting those levels in relevant attributes takes less than a week. Hell I'm flying a battleship worth a little over 125 million (ship + fittings) and I barely have any learning skills (read some basic ones at 4, most at 2).
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:13:00 - [22] i didnt really start training learning skills untill a few weeks after I had started playing. trained into battlecruisers in that time although i couldnt really fly them properly but still had fun.
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:16:00 - [23] Edited by: Achran Dexx on 22/04/2008 19:15:59 delete
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Mihaill Blackthorn For a new player it doesn't matter too much for the first few months. It makes a huge difference when you start training the 20+ day skills This is a fallacy. Training a 20 day skill or 5 4 day sklls saves you the same amount of time. Orchid Ix did things the right way imho (same as me some 3 years ago)
Charney deGeoff Caldari New Tibet	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:28:00 - [25] I'm a noob and I've got a bit over 0.5 mil SP in learning (3M SP total so far), however I trained them mainly while I was offline and trained my other more "interesting" skills (and shorter) when I was logged on. That has kept things dynamic and fun for me, so I wouldn't call it timewasting. Getting up to 10M SP without learning is probably a bit of a "waste" but in the beginning (i.e. under 3-4M SP) the skills won't make a huge impact to your learning, it's first when you start looking at the 20d skills - so mixing and matching will work just fine. I guess the whole thing depends a bit how you want to play the game and what you want to get out of it. If you're really into micromanagement I'm sure you'll cry rivers over missed/wasted hour of skill training and want to max your learning right from the start, but if you're just a "casual player" maybe you think it's fun to traing some pvp skills instead and you're totally content over that choice. I think the system is just fine as it is, I wouldn't want to get "fast tracked" into "the useful stuff" as soon as I'm done with the tutorial. Maybe I will change my mind once I've created 5 alts and become a bitter old EVE veteran, but for now I'm just a blueeyed noob and I don't think the system is broken (so don't fix it).
Mo Lester Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:30:00 - [26] Edited by: Mo Lester on 22/04/2008 19:30:33 Edited by: Mo Lester on 22/04/2008 19:30:00 Originally by: Achran Dexx Edited by: Achran Dexx on 22/04/2008 19:16:17 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). This, honestly. The whole "gimp yourself for months" myth comes from the (rather stupid) suggestion in newb chats to go for 5/4 in the skills, which needlessly adds more than a week per attribute to your training. 4/3, otoh, is more than adequate for the kinds of skills you'll be training as a newbie, and getting those levels in relevant attributes takes less than a week. Hell I'm flying a battlecruiser worth a little over 125 million (ship + fittings) and I barely have any learning skills (read some basic ones at 4, most at 2). I would love to find your drake and suicide it.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:33:00 - [27] I look at it this way: If you're looking to mess about with EVE for the short term, skip the learning skills. Get your bearings, see if you like the game, whatever. Achieve your short term evaluative goals. If you're looking long term, it pays to get the learning skills going. You probably have an idea of where you want to go, so you pick the learning skills which will get you there the fastest while keeping up with other skills which enable you more in the game. All boils down to what you're looking to do, in my opinion. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Mo Lester Edited by: Mo Lester on 22/04/2008 19:30:33 Edited by: Mo Lester on 22/04/2008 19:30:00 Originally by: Achran Dexx Edited by: Achran Dexx on 22/04/2008 19:16:17 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Learning skills are definitely worth it. If you want to cut them short, go for 4/3 (basic/advanced) and always skip Charisma past 2/0 unless you're training a trader/ mission runner (in which case Char 24 ftw ). This, honestly. The whole "gimp yourself for months" myth comes from the (rather stupid) suggestion in newb chats to go for 5/4 in the skills, which needlessly adds more than a week per attribute to your training. 4/3, otoh, is more than adequate for the kinds of skills you'll be training as a newbie, and getting those levels in relevant attributes takes less than a week. Hell I'm flying a battlecruiser worth a little over 125 million (ship + fittings) and I barely have any learning skills (read some basic ones at 4, most at 2). I would love to find your drake and suicide it. Guess again :P
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Fauna Veldnaught I started to wondering about this issue while trying to find new character for me. When a newb starts this game, he will spend next 1-2 months trying to train learning skills. I swear to god, the very next time I see someone say this STUPID thing... Facts: By spending no more than 50% of their training time (assuming average stats), new players can get 4+3 learnings and cybernetics 1 by the end of the free trial. That gives them 96.12 points of stats, compared to 119.9 that someone with 5+4 learnings and +4 implants will have. They will train at about 83% of the rate of the "veteran". If they continue with the 50% learning/50% other skills for their first month, they'll have 4+4 and +4 implants, which puts then at about 90%. At this point it is actually a disadvantage to put any more SP into learning skills unless they're going to play for a year or more. Most EvE players would be well advised to stop here. Learning skills have their pros and cons, but the worst problem with them is people like you giving poor quality advice like "spend your first 1-2 months just training learning skills". That's about on a par with telling someone to stay in their noob ship until they have enough ISK to buy a tier-3 battleship. Stop it. Stop doing it right now and never do it again.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Fauna Veldnaught Sorry, I am not looking for suggestion for that should I train learning skills OR not. I just think that they are bad for the game. There is enough skills to spend that time what you have to use for learning.. CCP now start you with 800k skillpoints, which is enough to compensate you for training your learnings to 4+4. At that point, you have the option to "specialise" in learning skills if you choose.

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