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Learning skills necessary at all?

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Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:57:00 - [31] Dude - train the fun skills during the day as you play. When you stop the game for the day - switch to a learning skill. Then when you get on the next day - go back to fun skills. Boring stuff is done while you sleep - fun stuff is enabled as you play during the day. TADA - Best of both worlds. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:09:00 - [32] Bottom line, to answer the OP to the question of "[are] learning skills necessary at all?" NO, they're not *necessary*, but they are advisable. Basic learnings to L3 pay off in the first couple of days, so it would be stupid not to train them. Basic learnings to L4 pay off a little later, but they do pay off sooner if you can then immediately train L2/L3 advanced, which are not THAT cheap for a newbie... so again, you'd be stupid not to train them as soon as you can AFFORD them. Advanced learnings to 4 pay off reasonably soon if you plan to stick around, so you'd be better off in the LONG run to train them. Basic leranings to 5 and then advanced to L5, those take a long time to pay off, and you should ONLY train them if you KNOW you will be around years from now. So, again... they are not a necessity, but they do help. The longer you plan to stick around, the better it is to have them done sooner... but not TOO soon. Let's put it this way... yeah, 2 to 4 years later, you do have more "useful" skills than the guys that stopped at 4/3 or 4/4 while you pressed on and got L5 in all of them... but for the first 2 months, you got NOTHING, and for the entire 2-4 years, they still got more useful SP. And for the third time... no, you don't NEED any learning skills at all. You just WANT them done as soon as possible, even if you don't actually want to train them. It's a trade-off between "more stuff now" and "more stuff later". Where you decide to stop depends on how much stuff you want faster and how much later.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:24:00 - [33] Who is this OP tresspassing on a known trademark? Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Fauna Veldnaught Sorry, I am not looking for suggestion for that should I train learning skills OR not. I just think that they are bad for the game. There is enough skills to spend that time what you have to use for learning.. I agree and i understand, learning skills are currently just time sinks really, yet there is no way to just remove them. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:10:00 - [35] Training SOME learning skills early is a good idea. Training them all to maximum early, at exclusion of everything else, is just moronic I feel. Yes, it may get you to 60mil skillpoints faster, but it's at the expense of making your initial experience with the game miserable. Get the base skills to level 3, takes a day or so, then mix them in from time to time to boost them up higher. Heck, I've been in the game almost 5 years now and I'm just now maxing them out as I run out of other stuff that I feel I need to train. But man, get in there and blow some stuff up, enjoy the game. ------ begin signature ----- Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:10:00 - [36] Learning skills aren't neccesary if you don't want to. The strive for efficiency demands you do. ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.04.26 10:44:00 - [37] It's actually quite simple. Use Evemon to guide you with the training skills. Create a plan, can even be a short one where you specify what you want to train for. If, IF, training a learning skill to maybe 1 or 2 levels will get you there faster, Evemon will give you a suggestion to train them. This means: a) if you don't train the learning skill, it will take LONGER to reach your goal. b) you only train the learning skills when you benefit from them. What can be wrong with this?
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Fauna Veldnaught I started to wondering about this issue while trying to find new character for me. When a newb starts this game, he will spend next 1-2 months trying to train learning skills. I swear to god, the very next time I see someone say this STUPID thing... Facts: By spending no more than 50% of their training time (assuming average stats), new players can get 4+3 learnings and cybernetics 1 by the end of the free trial. That gives them 96.12 points of stats, compared to 119.9 that someone with 5+4 learnings and +4 implants will have. They will train at about 83% of the rate of the "veteran". If they continue with the 50% learning/50% other skills for their first month, they'll have 4+4 and +4 implants, which puts then at about 90%. At this point it is actually a disadvantage to put any more SP into learning skills unless they're going to play for a year or more. Most EvE players would be well advised to stop here. Learning skills have their pros and cons, but the worst problem with them is people like you giving poor quality advice like "spend your first 1-2 months just training learning skills". That's about on a par with telling someone to stay in their noob ship until they have enough ISK to buy a tier-3 battleship. Stop it. Stop doing it right now and never do it again. I finally agree with you on something and I couldn't have said it better myself. Every time I read someone saying they {or other noobs} have to spend the first month or two of the game training learning skills, I want to reach through my monitor and slap them silly.
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:06:00 - [39] no, not in the begening they realy dont do much.. later on with the highend skills they will.. even if you never train thouse skills thouse who do will only save a month a year maby in skill time & thats with them all maxed out.. i dont see it as a big deal like others. wast your noob skill time on ship grid/elc skills ship command too 5 frig to 5 weopons skills too 4. get your ass in a intersept asap as a noob. you can do all this in 3 months mabe less. i am pritty shoure i can do this in 2 months and be in a steath frig.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:06:00 - [40] Can newbies afford advanced learning skills in their first month these days? Luxury! ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag

OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Can newbies afford advanced learning skills in their first month these days? Luxury! hell yea, a pirate paid for my skills after he ganked me.. dude had class.. other players will help you join a corp i guess..
Kilhu Emmek Minmatar Redshift Industrial	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:14:00 - [42] Originally by: OffBeaT hell yea, a pirate paid for my skills after he ganked me.. dude had class.. other players will help you join a corp i guess.. And here I thought the day of the Gentleman (or gentleperson, whatever) Pirate was long gone. o7 to PC 'rats like that one. --
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:17:00 - [43] Ah, it's fun to buy newbies things in Eve. Sometimes you find shoutouts from them years later when you're researching CSM candidates. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Shiverau FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:35:00 - [44] skills will still train without them. it all depends on if you want to race ahead or just meander along.
Andre Marconius Gallente House Of Troy	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:59:00 - [45] When I first started, training Gallente Industrial to lvl 5 from lvl 4 would have taken around 30 days, now it would only take 17 days, so yeah I think they are worth it.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.26 12:48:00 - [46] Edited by: Amastat on 26/04/2008 12:48:47 2.2m SP in learning FTW If your on a trial and you are going to just 'try' the game - and you have no intention to subscribe right away - it would probably be best to just not worry about training, and train ship/equipment skills so you can give those different things a test drive throughout the duration of your trial period. If you end up liking the game and decide to play for real anyways - you can worry about training learning then. When I started this character I trained all my basic and advanced learning skills to level III, then I did my ship skill training for about a month. I switched back to learning,a nd pushed all my basic skills to level IV, then I took another 2 months to train other things. I trained some of my basics to V, and some of my advances to IV - then I switched. I only just perfected my learning skills to the point I wanted them to be at only last month. I have all my basics skills at level V, and all my advanced skills at level IV. The only thing I really have left to worry about in terms of attributes is training Cybernetics V so I can plugin my +5 set, it will be another 10 days before that. I have a ton of planning ahead of me right now. When your new, you may be like: "jee, I have so much crap to train." Believe me - as you play longer, the list of skills you have to train will always stay about the same length, they just get longer and longer to train. At present I am in the middle of a 200-day training plan - and I have another secondary prioity 100 day training plan after that. Often times I wish that I did strictly all my learning first after I finished battleship skills. I would have a extra 1-2 million SP I bet if I did. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
maccrat	Posted - 2008.04.26 12:50:00 - [47] Things like learning skills are what makes eve the game it is today. WIthout little bumps like them in the road this game would be well too easy!
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:01:00 - [48] Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 26/04/2008 12:48:47 2.2m SP in learning FTW If your on a trial and you are going to just 'try' the game - and you have no intention to subscribe right away - it would probably be best to just not worry about training, and train ship/equipment skills so you can give those different things a test drive throughout the duration of your trial period. If you end up liking the game and decide to play for real anyways - you can worry about training learning then. When I started this character I trained all my basic and advanced learning skills to level III, then I did my ship skill training for about a month. I switched back to learning,a nd pushed all my basic skills to level IV, then I took another 2 months to train other things. I trained some of my basics to V, and some of my advances to IV - then I switched. I only just perfected my learning skills to the point I wanted them to be at only last month. I have all my basics skills at level V, and all my advanced skills at level IV. The only thing I really have left to worry about in terms of attributes is training Cybernetics V so I can plugin my +5 set, it will be another 10 days before that. I have a ton of planning ahead of me right now. When your new, you may be like: "jee, I have so much crap to train." Believe me - as you play longer, the list of skills you have to train will always stay about the same length, they just get longer and longer to train. At present I am in the middle of a 200-day training plan - and I have another secondary prioity 100 day training plan after that. Often times I wish that I did strictly all my learning first after I finished battleship skills. I would have a extra 1-2 million SP I bet if I did. what are you gona do with +5 implants on. you cant fight they cost too much too lose so i am guessing you are into the money part of the game and dont come out much. its the implants that these guys can cash in on too much when it comes too skilling up or they just give them too there accounts they dont play but sell.. bs i say.. thouse implants should never of been put into the game, +3 was enough. what are we gona get upto +10 ones and knowone willing too pvp. me head cost too much, talk about head hunting. can i shrenk your head too when i get it. 200mil head for sale.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:06:00 - [49] Edited by: Amastat on 26/04/2008 13:09:04 Originally by: OffBeaT Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 26/04/2008 12:48:47 2.2m SP in learning FTW If your on a trial and you are going to just 'try' the game - and you have no intention to subscribe right away - it would probably be best to just not worry about training, and train ship/equipment skills so you can give those different things a test drive throughout the duration of your trial period. If you end up liking the game and decide to play for real anyways - you can worry about training learning then. When I started this character I trained all my basic and advanced learning skills to level III, then I did my ship skill training for about a month. I switched back to learning,a nd pushed all my basic skills to level IV, then I took another 2 months to train other things. I trained some of my basics to V, and some of my advances to IV - then I switched. I only just perfected my learning skills to the point I wanted them to be at only last month. I have all my basics skills at level V, and all my advanced skills at level IV. The only thing I really have left to worry about in terms of attributes is training Cybernetics V so I can plugin my +5 set, it will be another 10 days before that. I have a ton of planning ahead of me right now. When your new, you may be like: "jee, I have so much crap to train." Believe me - as you play longer, the list of skills you have to train will always stay about the same length, they just get longer and longer to train. At present I am in the middle of a 200-day training plan - and I have another secondary prioity 100 day training plan after that. Often times I wish that I did strictly all my learning first after I finished battleship skills. I would have a extra 1-2 million SP I bet if I did. what are you gona do with +5 implants on. you cant fight they cost too much too lose so i am guessing you are into the money part of the game and dont come out much. its the implants that these guys can cash in on too much when it comes too skilling up or they just give them too there accounts they dont play but sell.. bs i say.. thouse implants should never of been put into the game, +3 was enough. what are we gona get upto +10 ones and knowone willing too pvp. me head cost too much, talk about head hunting. can i shrenk your head too when i get it. 200mil head for sale. Well - if I take a month off from the game, and I'm training for pretty much perfection skills for a certain ship of mine, or a new ship - it comes in handy to have a JC for that. I have several JC's - the +5's are going on one of them. I'll likely be spending most of my time in a spare +4 clone that I can afford to PvP in. And no - I've spent the vast majority of the time this character has been in exsistance in low sec or 0.0. I've only recently taken the last two months in empire, saving up massive ISKies to arm myself with my own personal armada of Faction, t2, and Capital ships to make people like you more jealous :P The +5's are but a fraction of what I have that you can cry over. All in all - it's not hard to get a +5 set when I can make over 100 million ISK a day without really trying. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:09:00 - [50] Originally by: OffBeaT what are you gona do with +5 implants on. you cant fight they cost too much too lose so i am guessing you are into the money part of the game and dont come out much. its the implants that these guys can cash in on too much when it comes too skilling up or they just give them too there accounts they dont play but sell.. bs i say.. thouse implants should never of been put into the game, +3 was enough. what are we gona get upto +10 ones and knowone willing too pvp. me head cost too much, talk about head hunting. can i shrenk your head too when i get it. 200mil head for sale. Never heard of jump clones? Apart from that, I know plenty of people who pvp in pirate +3 sets which cost a great deal more than a +5 learning set. Guess some people just have more cash to risk than you, huh? Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )

Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: OffBeaT what are you gona do with +5 implants on. you cant fight they cost too much too lose so i am guessing you are into the money part of the game and dont come out much. its the implants that these guys can cash in on too much when it comes too skilling up or they just give them too there accounts they dont play but sell.. bs i say.. thouse implants should never of been put into the game, +3 was enough. what are we gona get upto +10 ones and knowone willing too pvp. me head cost too much, talk about head hunting. can i shrenk your head too when i get it. 200mil head for sale. Never heard of jump clones? Apart from that, I know plenty of people who pvp in pirate +3 sets which cost a great deal more than a +5 learning set. Guess some people just have more cash to risk than you, huh? /Signed I would more sooner be able to afford PvPing in a +5 implant set then a pirate implant sec. If I was in a full pirate set - and I'm not talking about the crap low-grades either - My nu*s would magically rip off from the rest of my body, thats how painful it would be. So - yes, some people are a lot more rich then I, and theres probably some god out there with even more then the few people who can afford pirate sets. I have one friend who is like that, that man secretes and craps gold - literally. He's assembling his own fleet like I am - but his is going to be like 10x the size of mine, probably full faction fit on most of his ships, and hes getting a Nyx too. No - he's not a RMT buyer. He's a trader - the un-offical Lord and God of Jita. At some point I will be faction fitting a dreadnaught - I may possibly consider getting a Implant set to go with it. I would only dare to get a pirate implant in a capital ship, so long I don't get involved in some pointless, laggy fleet battle with a idiot FC. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:17:00 - [52] ouch! now thats a rich dude! game on! i still say for guys like me who can afford no more then 2 accounts its better too play the game then sit it out scard too do anything becouse my losses would be too high. i guess some guys like me game hard and lose it all too guys like you who win it all. anyone who says eve is a fare game too all im gona gank..
Bodhisattvas Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:18:00 - [53] Skills put hairs on your chest ! If your female join a circus or something!
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:22:00 - [54] Originally by: OffBeaT ouch! now thats a rich dude! game on! i still say for guys like me who can afford no more then 2 accounts its better too play the game then sit it out scard too do anything becouse my losses would be too high. i guess some guys like me game hard and lose it all too guys like you who win it all. anyone who says eve is a fare game too all im gona gank.. Well - I used to just constantly attempt to PvP when I was newer, and I kept losing a lot of ships. And - even when I was ratting to make up for losses, I always had a corporation or alliance event or obligation that pulled me away from ratting to lose even more ISK. It kinda sucks to play the game when you can barely afford to PvP in pitiful t2 frigs. I really hate just constantly attacking anything in crap-ships. I rather really fight in quality and style - so, thats why I'm saving up so much right now. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Jecob	Posted - 2008.04.26 17:34:00 - [55] Edited by: Jecob on 26/04/2008 17:36:16 If you want to see how good learning skills are get Evemon chose a ship, mod or skill that takes a little while to train for, I'm going to use a few different examples here. Black Ops, Caldari Widow : 268 Days, 15 Hours, 14 Minutes (Excluding learning skills) Ok now add that to Evemon plan now at the bottom left of the plan is a blue link with suggestions, click it and add the learning skills it recommends, now the time of 268 Days has changed. Black Ops, Caldari Widow : 161 Days, 4 Hours, 24 Minutes (Including learning skills) Big difference! Lets use another example something that doesn't take as long as the above skills, Covert Ops. Covert Ops, Caldari Manticore : 47 Days, 10 Hours, 42 Minutes (Excluding learning skills) Lets add Evemons suggested learning skills. Covert Ops, Caldari Manticore : 34 Days, 22 Hours, 59 Minutes (Including learning skills) So it's pretty evident that learning are indeed quite necessary, you would think it will take a long time to train the learning skills adding extra time to the overall training but as these numbers suggest it cuts down the training time total with the learning skills included.
Han LaoTsu The Ragnarok Project space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.04.27 06:07:00 - [56] Edited by: Han LaoTsu on 27/04/2008 06:10:33 Originally by: Charney deGeoff I'm a noob and I've got a bit over 0.5 mil SP in learning (3M SP total so far), however I trained them mainly while I was offline and trained my other more "interesting" skills (and shorter) when I was logged on. That has kept things dynamic and fun for me, so I wouldn't call it timewasting. Getting up to 10M SP without learning is probably a bit of a "waste" but in the beginning (i.e. under 3-4M SP) the skills won't make a huge impact to your learning, it's first when you start looking at the 20d skills - so mixing and matching will work just fine. I guess the whole thing depends a bit how you want to play the game and what you want to get out of it. If you're really into micromanagement I'm sure you'll cry rivers over missed/wasted hour of skill training and want to max your learning right from the start, but if you're just a "casual player" maybe you think it's fun to traing some pvp skills instead and you're totally content over that choice. I think the system is just fine as it is, I wouldn't want to get "fast tracked" into "the useful stuff" as soon as I'm done with the tutorial. Maybe I will change my mind once I've created 5 alts and become a bitter old EVE veteran, but for now I'm just a blueeyed noob and I don't think the system is broken (so don't fix it). This. All of it. Read it and read it again, this guy has it right. The simple fact of the matter is it is IMPOSSIBLE for a true 'newb' to train their learning skills to 5/4 before anything else. Some characters start with one or two of the advanced learning skills but not all. Those things are 4.5 mil a piece. There is no way a noob is going to be able to afford those without training other fun skills. For my corps newbies I made up an example skill plan that had them getting their learning skills to 4/3 and sitting in a caracal that was easily capable of doing any L2 mission in 31 days. The learning skills were spread out evenly over the 31 days. If the learning skills had been bunched up in the beginning as some suggest people do then you'd save about 20 hours. Learning skills should stay in the game. People who perpetuate the myth that you need to train nothing but learning skills for two months when you start the game shouldn't.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.27 06:20:00 - [57] Train all learnings to 2 and then train up some basic ship skills to make some isk then work on getting cybernetics to 1 and pop in some +3 implants then go the rest of the way to basics 4 and adv 4. Learnings will be finished in about a week unless your going capitol ship then you might want to go level 5 on the basics. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.27 08:29:00 - [58] anyone whos been around in eve for sometime knows despite what ccp is saying to do i say too speclize now is a joke. the way they nerf all the time you could wast tones of time on some types of skills just too find out when you finly get there you got nerfed. now you are extinct as for me i will take longer too catch up in some ships but when i do i have generalized my characters skills and am more resident too getting nerfed on and can easly lean one way or another too work around a nerf becouse i have alrounded my skills. all you need too do is look at history too see what happends too species/armes that speclize too much in one area. if one small thing changes they cannot adaped well and go extinct very fast.. its a true point of life and one you should notice. i do not trust ccp enough not too nerf me to death in this game as a speclize fighter. i watch my missiles goto **** and so on... so much for my speclize missiles as it looks too me like drones/turrets are what kicks ass these days. me did not work my turrets well and it was a big mistake.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.27 09:26:00 - [59] Originally by: OffBeaT what are you gona do with +5 implants on. you cant fight they cost too much too lose so i am guessing you are into the money part of the game and dont come out much. its the implants that these guys can cash in on too much when it comes too skilling up or they just give them too there accounts they dont play but sell.. bs i say.. thouse implants should never of been put into the game, +3 was enough. what are we gona get upto +10 ones and knowone willing too pvp. me head cost too much, talk about head hunting. can i shrenk your head too when i get it. 200mil head for sale. +5's cost too much to lose? What about snake/halo/slave etc sets that people use for pvp? Implants shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether or not you PVP, maybe for you they are... but I could give a damn if I have +1s or a head full of 3bil in implants. I normally run only +4 perc/willpower or int/mem depending on my skillplan and if I'm training support or combat skills. My learning skills are crap on this character, I think i have a total of 1.3mil SP in learning and I'm around 2-4mil SP behind characters who actually put some time into training their learning skills. Not much of a difference if you ask me, and I play to have fun so it doesn't really phase me when someone whips out the SP Epeen and waves it in my face. Everyones pod makes the same squish sounds when it goes... ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Misanth The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.04.27 09:32:00 - [60] I started this game when you got less skillpoints than new characters does now. A corpmate of mine that started same time went straight to learning basic frig/cruiser (and base battleship skill for ratting, but mostly support skills for small-sized pvp ships). I trained basic tanking and chose one cruiser to be decent in for lv2 missions and to leech along with some ratting corpmates + Amarr Industrial level 1 - so I could haul for corpmates that mined. Or do some trade-hauling for income. Then I took learning to 5/4 (as you needed 5 for advanced then). After half a year I was bored of the game, I had just gotten into an Armageddon and I was virtually useless vs Angels unless a heavy nos/drone setup, my laser skills was horrible. I took a 6 months break. That corpmate of mine is now 8mil sp ahead of me and been doing well in his new corps. I'm back in EVE and active since my 6 month break, and my alts are training learning before they do anything else - but for a new player I really really recommend training something that makes the game enjoyable at first. Mix in some learning. Train that while you sleep, and other skills while you are logged in.



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