| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Silverlancer
   |
Posted - 2004.04.24 06:42:00 -
[1]
I hate people who spam in every thread saying "JETISSONING MEANS ITS NO LONGER YOURS" and point to the CCP definition. Well I would just like to note that CCP has said for months that jetissoning does NOT mean that you lose control of the item(s) (they just are too lazy to update their definitions). This issue will be completely solved by the criminal flagging system in Shiva (And if jetissoning made the item free for anyone... why would this even exist?). So stop spamming this in every thread--you're giving the noobs false information.
|
McWatt
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 07:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: McWatt on 24/04/2004 19:29:03
as always, silverlancer, it s you who is terribly misinformed. (and passing on the bull****)
ppl are not talking about ccps definition of jettison, they are talking about THE defintion of the word.
 Originally by: NASA
Jettison: The disposal of unwanted equipment or material by establishing it in a trajectory that will allow a predictable reentry into the atmosphere. 002
Link
and yes, i know, it s a game and they can define stuff in any way they want. but some definitions are simply more, hm, funny than others. 
|
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 13:39:00 -
[3]
Have you ever suffered a bump on the head Silverlancer
you realy do spout some *******s
*Proud CEO of Anorak Inc*
---------------------------------------------
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 13:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dexter Rast
Have you ever suffered a bump on the head Silverlancer
you realy do spout some *******s
*Proud CEO of Anorak Inc*
LOL. Explain to me why, in Shiva, CCP is making it so that if you take ore from a jetisson can you will be flagged as criminal and killed by concord...
if they say that the jetissoned item is no longer yours?
|
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 13:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dexter Rast on 24/04/2004 13:56:41
If you hadnt already realised what CCP say and what they do are 2 completely different things
well lets see if you are correct Silver.. and if you are only 90% of what you type will be reguarded as *******s
BTW still waiting on that war declaration form you, plz try to remember about it when you get ingame, thnx
---------------------------------------------
|
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 18:02:00 -
[6]
If they do flag ppl that do that as criminals its going to be seriously exploitable already and allow even more greifing tactics. Also will make secure cans completly redundant.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Reash
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 18:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Reash on 24/04/2004 18:09:12
Secure cans would still be useful for things such as mining in 0.0 space if i am correct? Seen as concord has no rule there.
-------------------------------------------------
Defend Amarr space, join the Auctoritan Syndicate today |
Alkanine
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 18:10:00 -
[8]
any smart ore thief doesnt go to 0.0 either and you can kill an indy that trys stealing hence secure cans still pretty much useless unless you need an ammo dump that lasts for awhile
|
MooKids
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 18:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Silverlancer
LOL. Explain to me why, in Shiva, CCP is making it so that if you take ore from a jetisson can you will be flagged as criminal and killed by concord...
if they say that the jetissoned item is no longer yours?
Excessive whining from carebears?
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 18:16:00 -
[10]
So lets get this straight,
we encounter a guy from a corp war and kill him in a 1.0 system..
Can we or can we not loot his can after his destruction without getting ganked by concord??
if this issue has not been adressed yet then obviously that cargo rule will not be implemented.
---------------------------------------------
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dexter Rast
Edited by: Dexter Rast on 24/04/2004 13:56:41
If you hadnt already realised what CCP say and what they do are 2 completely different things
well lets see if you are correct Silver.. and if you are only 90% of what you type will be reguarded as *******s
BTW still waiting on that war declaration form you, plz try to remember about it when you get ingame, thnx
What war declaration? We don't declare war anymore as everyone we've warred against has just left their corp and ran to another.
|
Sylia Masters
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sylia Masters on 24/04/2004 19:11:53
As of this time, who owns the contents of a free floating can is irrelevant. What is relevant is who can enforce the claim on the contents of the can. If I'm mining in .1+ space, and someone waltz over and starts to dig through my can, I'll consider that highly rude, but unless I do something about it, I cannot complain! I hate ore thieves, they're scum, but all the yelling in the world does nothing; except make them want to loot even more.
|
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:22:00 -
[13]
Quote:
What war declaration? We don't declare war anymore as everyone we've warred against has just left their corp and ran to another
 someone get me a corset for my sides have split with laughing
---------------------------------------------
|
McWatt
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: McWatt on 24/04/2004 19:34:14
useless topic. will post again anyway.
jettison means throwing away. i m not a native speaker, so could anyone point to an instance in which he uses the word and wants to retrieve the stuff later???
even in the game there is only one occasion for ppl to be interested in a jettison can: can-mining.
so lots of trouble for a business that wasn t supposed to be ingame. again.
so:
* stop uber concord, install flexible police response
* make wars less avoidable
* fix security status bug
* move ppl to low sec by banning most production from high sec and increasing low sec ores
instead of working on rubbish like this!
|
Viceroy
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:33:00 -
[15]
Use secure cans. Jettisoned stuff isnt yours. Kthxbye.
-
|
holy jo
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:34:00 -
[16]
Quote:
What war declaration? We don't declare war anymore as everyone we've warred against has just left their corp and ran to another.
*Proud CEO of Ragnorak Inc*
Well proud CEO of Ragnork Inc please give us a declaration of war so that we may benefit from your great experience in these matters.
Well try not to lose to many memebers of it LOLS
Bless you my my misguided son
|
Grimster
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 19:49:00 -
[17]
I kinda posed this question a couple of days ago about jet cans and war spoils.
Currently with a corp war, when there has been a battle, you find a scrabble of people jump for the left jet cans to see what they can take from the battlefield.
I was asking whether the items should be flagged as stolen unless picked up by the winning corp or the losing corp. And whether Concord would respond accordingly.
No firm answers but this is another instance where people are very interested in jet cans.
|
McWatt
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 20:00:00 -
[18]
Edited by: McWatt on 24/04/2004 20:02:06
Originally by: Grimster
No firm answers but this is another instance where people are very interested in jet cans.
shoot them is my response. there are other instances in which ppl are interested in keeping the stuff (exchanging cargo in space, etc) but in most instances it s pretty easy (and your responsibility) to keep other ppl from taking your stuff.
just scanning the web i found an interesting use of the word:
Originally by: aljazeera
The Post said at the top of the list of those probably to be jettisoned was Ahmad Chalabi, a Shia politician who for years was a Pentagon favourite and popular with Vice President Richard Cheney.
i fear he will get picked up again. 
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 20:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: McWatt
Edited by: McWatt on 24/04/2004 20:02:06
Originally by: Grimster
No firm answers but this is another instance where people are very interested in jet cans.
shoot them is my response. there are other instances in which ppl are interested in keeping the stuff (exchanging cargo in space, etc) but in most instances it s pretty easy (and your responsibility) to keep other ppl from taking your stuff.
just scanning the web i found an interesting use of the word:
Originally by: aljazeera
The Post said at the top of the list of those probably to be jettisoned was Ahmad Chalabi, a Shia politician who for years was a Pentagon favourite and popular with Vice President Richard Cheney.
i fear he will get picked up again.
AFAIK the jetisson change will work like this--you cannot take it unless you are the one who killed the person and you were at war.
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 20:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: holy jo
Quote:
What war declaration? We don't declare war anymore as everyone we've warred against has just left their corp and ran to another.
*Proud CEO of Ragnorak Inc*
Well proud CEO of Ragnork Inc please give us a declaration of war so that we may benefit from your great experience in these matters.
Well try not to lose to many memebers of it LOLS
Bless you my my misguided son
I have very little war experience... as all the corps we've declared war on were alt corps and suicide kestrel corps that just reformed themselves when we declared war.
|
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 21:16:00 -
[21]
Dunno what all the fuss is about. If you leave something behind it is still technically yours until someone decides to steal it. Just like in real life, if you leave something unattended it'll be gone asap. And also just like in real life, if you do see someone actually steal your stuff, you can seek justice.
-------
|
Grimster
|
Posted - 2004.04.24 21:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Silverlancer
AFAIK the jetisson change will work like this--you cannot take it unless you are the one who killed the person and you were at war.
I reckon this one will go to a corp level, you know what it's like with a battle, cr@p flying everywhere, it's hard to tell who killed who and to be ganked by concord because you didn't kill someone would suck when still in the same corp that killed the enemy.
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Silverlancer on 25/04/2004 00:09:52
*double post*
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
Dunno what all the fuss is about. If you leave something behind it is still technically yours until someone decides to steal it. Just like in real life, if you leave something unattended it'll be gone asap. And also just like in real life, if you do see someone actually steal your stuff, you can seek justice.
Agreed. If you leave your car (thorax) outside a movie theater (station) and get out and walk in (in your pod), its still a crime to steal it.
And if you leave a briefcase against the wall outside a corp meeting (unsecure can with ore in it), and then you walk in to talk, its still a crime to steal it.
|
Grimster
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Silverlancer
Agreed. If you leave your car (thorax) outside a movie theater (station) and get out and walk in (in your pod), its still a crime to steal it.
And if you leave a briefcase against the wall outside a corp meeting (unsecure can with ore in it), and then you walk in to talk, its still a crime to steal it.
Yeah, but you rarely get an immediate police response.
If you have a briefcase (ore) in your car (indy) and drive past the police, they are very unlikely to stop you to look for it.
Granted if you're in a known stolen car (thorax) and go past the police that's a different story.
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grimster
Originally by: Silverlancer
Agreed. If you leave your car (thorax) outside a movie theater (station) and get out and walk in (in your pod), its still a crime to steal it.
And if you leave a briefcase against the wall outside a corp meeting (unsecure can with ore in it), and then you walk in to talk, its still a crime to steal it.
Yeah, but you rarely get an immediate police response.
If you have a briefcase (ore) in your car (indy) and drive past the police, they are very unlikely to stop you to look for it.
Granted if you're in a known stolen car (thorax) and go past the police that's a different story.
Yup, I know. What I mean is that its a crime either way--whether you can get caught or not. But if you're sitting outside the meeting watching your purse (ore) and a guy runs off with it... you're allowed to pepper spray him and take him down
|
Grimster
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Silverlancer
Yup, I know. What I mean is that its a crime either way--whether you can get caught or not. But if you're sitting outside the meeting watching your purse (ore) and a guy runs off with it... you're allowed to pepper spray him and take him down
Unless you're in the UK buddy, you'd be the one going to jail then  Talk about backward!
|
Negotiator
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 00:44:00 -
[28]
i'll agree with the topic - Silver, shut up about jettisoning. Btw from what i gathered criminal flagging won't be Concord-oriented, but player-oriented, so if u get ur ore stolen YOU are the one that is supposed to kill the thief.
|
Xadian
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 01:34:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xadian on 25/04/2004 01:35:05
a simpler way would simply be a change in the jettison warning message, instead of "Are you Sure?" it should be, "Are you sure? once jettisoned, items aren't your property"
Always hit the big red button whenever you get the chance.
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 02:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Negotiator
i'll agree with the topic - Silver, shut up about jettisoning. Btw from what i gathered criminal flagging won't be Concord-oriented, but player-oriented, so if u get ur ore stolen YOU are the one that is supposed to kill the thief.
What I mean is that if you're sitting NEXT TO THE CAN and a guy steals it... feel free to blow him to pieces
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 07:29:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Malvada on 25/04/2004 07:31:57
Hm...
All this talk about jet cans! I don't care what "jettison" means technically... Who says you have to not want something to jettison it? Are people really such narrow-minded morons?
<condescending voice>Should we change the command name to something that'll be more agreeable? Hm?</condescending voice>
Personally, I'm not a miner, so I couldn't care less about it from their side of things, but... I don't like prey that's powerless to fight back. How's a girl supposed to have any fun if the poor carebear miners don't even have a chance to grow a pair and defend their claim, all because their hands are tied by the threat of instantaneous annihilation by a merciless gank-squad of shiny Concord ships?
I'd invite a smarter Concord, one that at least gives someone the right to defend what they claim as theirs. Would give me a chance to get some target practice in.
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Viceroy
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 07:50:00 -
[32]
Use
Secure
Cargo
Canisters
-
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 13:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Viceroy
Use
Secure
Cargo
Canisters
Just a note--our corp mines in 0.4 space and below ONLY. That way we can kill ore stealers . But just a note about secure cans--they're GREAT for mining alone in dangerous areas without an indy, but they're worthless for mining ops as they can't be anchored anywhere near each other and are hell to position.
|
Viceroy
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 13:25:00 -
[34]
Well everything has a drawback. If you want your ore to be safe, you have to deal with the drawback. Just like in every other aspect of the game.
-
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 20:58:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Viceroy
Well everything has a drawback. If you want your ore to be safe, you have to deal with the drawback. Just like in every other aspect of the game.
yes, everything has a drawback... except if you're an orethief. everything's in your favor in .5+ space... *sigh* no challenge in it at all. how boring...
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Digital
|
Posted - 2004.04.25 23:01:00 -
[36]
I can not belive this topic continues to come up, over and over again people still create a post about it.
Jetson means disregarding your unwanted stuff, plain and simple , after this is done it is no longer yours.
It is not like you do not have an alternative to Jetson mining.. that is why secure containers exist!!!
And on that note I do not believe CCP will make this "so called" change in shieva , Jetcan mining was not part of the game design anyway, that is why they make "Secure Cans".. sheesh.
To end this topic, u have a choice, and if you use the jetcan method they you run the risk, if you use the secure can method then you are safe.
End of story, let's close this topic once and for all it's getting old very quick.
____________________
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 00:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Digital
Jetcan mining was not part of the game design anyway...
mmm... player Jumpp had a few things to say about "intended" game design.
Originally by: Jumpp
I've played many online games, and in each one there's been a debate in which arguments of the following form were deployed:
"<do something the way I think it should be done, though I personally don't do it>, like we're all supposed to do. There was never meant to be a <innovative technique that wasn't forseen by the developers but has since become a fundamental part of the game> available, and there still isn't supposed to be one."
Such arguments, of course, never have any effect apart from bringing richly-deserved disapprobation to the speaker, yet they're common in all games.
Responding to such an argument is difficult. It's easy to simply return the ignorance and bitterness that the original writer conveys, and that's what I usually do.
It's a lot of work to unpack the various misconceptions that underlie arguments of that form, and before undertaking such a task one has to be clear that it's a simple intellectual exercise done for one's own enjoyment, without any hope of actually reaching the writer in question--A person who was prepared to see reason couldn't have written the offending passage in the first place.
Nevertheless, here I go:
Error #1: The original intentions of the game designers are of primary importance.
Wrong, and they'll be the first to tell you that. Game designers aren't omniscient. The game one meant to make is never quite like the game one finally produces, and there will be lots of surprises along the way. (To take an example from EverQuest, the monk "feign death" ability was never intended as a tool to separate monsters from their fellows for easier harvest, yet this technique became the foundation of the monk experience.)
Sometimes the unintended consequences of design decisions are bad and need to be changed. Some are bad but better left alone, and some are happy accidents that make the game better. In any event, the "original intent" of the game designers isn't an argument-ender. There's lots more at work here.
Error #2: Inconvenient facts on the ground don't exist.
Eve has a well-tuned economy. That economy is, in large part, built on mining. Not the mining that may have existed on a whiteboard in some developer's office three years ago, but the mining as it exists and is practiced right this moment. A casual "that's not what was intended--change that" while remaining either ignorant of or indifferent to the consequences is the sort of intellectually negligent dilettantism of which bad low-level managers are made. Congratulations. You've got a big future ahead of you: here's a cheap suit and a clip-on tie.
i think he has a point. or two or three, really.
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Digital
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 01:51:00 -
[38]
Yep that is a very good post by Jumpp.
All I know that CCP have an important choice to make before taking any action on this.
They can either keep the game how it is, which is fun and dangerous at the same time.. or they can do down the path's on Ultima Online and really screw the game over by being "carebear friendly" .. anyone who has ever played this game will know what I am talking about.
Silverlancer if you want to play a "carebear" game then go and play Earth & Beyond... OHHH that's right it shut down because it was boring as hell because it had no pvp related danger!!.. moron.
____________________
|
Caeneus
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 02:24:00 -
[39]
I must admit when I mine I use a can to mine into. A jettisoned can at that. Why I hear you ask?
Secure cans simply don't do they job they were intended for. Their capacity is crap, they are a pain to position and deploy, the list goes on.
I'd rather take the risks ****ing about with a jett can than a secure can. But should somebody not in my corp loot the can while i'm there I should get the option of shooting the vermin whereever I am. Hopefully the new flagging system will make this an option.
Lets face it if left to concord they would shoot the wrong person!
Can't think of anything witty to put here. |
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 03:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Digital
They can either keep the game how it is, which is fun and dangerous at the same time.. or they can go down the path's on Ultima Online and really screw the game over by being "carebear friendly" .. anyone who has ever played this game will know what I am talking about. Silverlancer if you want to play a "carebear" game then go and play Earth & Beyond... OHHH that's right it shut down because it was boring as hell because it had no pvp related danger!!.. moron.
...wtf. how is having your ore stolen and not being able to do anything about it "pvp related danger"? if anything, a game design that ALLOWS miners to protect their ore would encourage MORE pvp danger and combat. if anything, the orethieves against making aggression a valid response to oretheft are the carebears, those that wish to avoid combat.
the miners who wish to fight those that steal from the results of their efforts are NOT carebears, which by definition are those that wish to avoid combat...
am i getting this wrong, or are you the moron?
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Digital
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 03:50:00 -
[41]
What the hell are you on about, first off lets put it plain and simple... there is no such thing as an "ore thief"... if you jetson ore (or anyting for that matter)you are saying that it is no longer wanted material and you are disgarding into space. This is what jetson is for, to get rid of things out your ship you no longer want.
The jetson idea was not originally designed for "mining" , yet as jumpp's post (which u put up) explains jetson mining is something that has been developed over time by players.. this was never endorsed by CCP and I have seen nothing to say it is.
Now until such time as it becomes a "standard" endorsed way to mine I do not see any validity to people's complaints when ore gets removed from a public can.
Secure can's are designed for mining and that is that, sure they do not hold as much ore but obvioulys CCP wanted it that way otherwise they would have made secure cans as big as loot cans.
Ok lets put this out there for the "simple" people who obviously still don't understand...
A) Use Secure Can = SAFE
B) Use Jetson Can = UNSAFE
can not get much more simple than that. If some people out there do not understand this now then I think there is no hope.
And to sum up your "quote", well you obviously have not played UO at any stage so it will mean nothing to you.
____________________
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 04:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Malvada on 26/04/2004 04:42:46
(for typo) 
Originally by: Digital
What the hell are you on about...
i see your mouth moving, but i'm not hearing anything...
you claim you're against carebearing the game, but are against a change that would eliminate the carebear occupation of ore-thieving. you're not fooling anyone by saying it doesn't exist just because can mining as it exists is not what the Devs intended. please see Jumpp's post again. you seemed to have read and understood it once, but now it's suddenly so much brain-fog in your head! i say this because all you do is flatly oppose all his ideas regarding the state of the game vs. what the Devs intended, among other points he makes.
let's make THIS really simple for YOU.
ore thieves swiping ore in .5 = carebear game tactic (taking action against others while avoiding combat)
giving miners the opportunity to defend their claim to the ore they've placed in a jet can with the irrefutable intention of keeping it = introducing more combat into the game, decidedly a reduction in said carebear factor.
i don't care what the definition of "jettison" is. the definition of the word doesn't change Joe-Blo Miner's intention of keeping the effing ore. refuting such an idea is very close-minded of you. you literally interpret things only because that literal interpretation enables you to argue. why not try thinking outside the box, k?
let's have some common sense here, okay? if you take the results of someone's work, something they feel they have a claim to, why shouldn't they have a right to defend that claim? why not? would it suddenly make the game so bad if miners in .5 and up could attack you for taking ore out of their can?
would it make the game less fun? that's really the issue. we play this game to have FUN. would it make the game less fun? if so, how?
i believe it would make the game more fun.
a simple message stating that the can is someone else's and you'll be vulnerable to attack should you take anything from the can would be fine. also, you could "invite" players to have access to your can, like you invite them into convos. players would know not to open a can unless they were invited (cleared as a non-thief) by the person that created the can, unless they want to be open to attack. this would eliminate the chance of using this as an exploit (tricking others into opening your can so you can attack them).
it's very simple. would it make the game less fun? yes or no, and why?
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Adriana
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 04:53:00 -
[43]
I would personally love it if they were flagged as killable for stealing ore, but for god sakes please make it a player killable switch, not a concord one. If they steal my ore I wantto blow them up myself and not sit there while concord does it.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Digital
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 04:57:00 -
[44]
Malvada I see all points you have said there, and they are very valid, but...
What about if I for instance have some loot I have picked up that I no longer want, so I jetson it into space as it is no longer any use to me... now what happens to these items if a system such as yours comes in?.. it would basically mean that no one would be able to claim those items without being branded a criminal.
Jetson is meant so you can get rid of unwanted items, but also allow others to claim those items if they have a use for them..... surely u can not dispute this fact?
Now if you were to use a system where ore in a jetson can was classified as "still owned" and all other items that were jetson'd were not.... well you can only see the exploits starting here against newbies. (eg jetson 1 ore and fill it with other loot.. fill in the rest).
Everyone only thinks about jetson'd ore when they talk about criminal flagging, but they never think about jetson'd items (loot).
I use jetson all the time when hunting large NPC's and your hull gets full, and u disgard lesser value items to fit in the more valuable item.
Just a thought.....
____________________
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 05:14:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Malvada on 26/04/2004 05:18:23
Originally by: Digital
Malvada I see all points you have said there, and they are very valid, but...
What about if I for instance have some loot I have picked up that I no longer want, so I jetson it into space as it is no longer any use to me... now what happens to these items if a system such as yours comes in?.. it would basically mean that no one would be able to claim those items without being branded a criminal.
not at all. they wouldn't loose security status or get attention from Concord. they would simply be open to attack from you. as a courtesy to others, there could be a setting that enables the person jettisoning the can to mark it as "owned" or "up for grabs". really, i think it should be defaulted to "up for grabs", and marking a can as "owned" should be something the jettisoner has to do.
Quote:
Jetson is meant so you can get rid of unwanted items, but also allow others to claim those items if they have a use for them..... surely u can not dispute this fact?
what something was meant for and what it's used for are often two very different things. this point has been made VERY well in Jumpp's post. personally, i find it ridiculous that a can meant for holding unwanted and spare modules from npc kills to be designed to hold 27500m¦! modules, as tiny as they are, hardly need that amount of space. it would take FOREVER to fill it up! does everyone really believe that the Dev responsible for setting the volume of the jettison can just came up with that figure out of thin air, that he or she had no inkling at all that they would be used for mining? does that seem likely to you?
Quote:
Now if you were to use a system where ore in a jetson can was classified as "still owned" and all other items that were jetson'd were not.... well you can only see the exploits starting here against newbies. (eg jetson 1 ore and fill it with other loot.. fill in the rest).
Everyone only thinks about jetson'd ore when they talk about criminal flagging, but they never think about jetson'd items (loot).
I use jetson all the time when hunting large NPC's and your hull gets full, and u disgard lesser value items to fit in the more valuable item.
Just a thought.....
as i said, the can would be tagged as owned, not the contents. taking ANYTHING out of the can would enable to owner to attack you, but only if you did so after being notified that the can had been tagged as owned and of the consiquences of removing the contents of the can.
i do not see how this could be exploited. it would finally introduce some excitement and challenge into ore-thieving, and give miners some small measure of defense against ore-thieving. everyone would have fun.
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Digital
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 05:28:00 -
[46]
That could work, who knows...I think this arguement could go on for ever, so...
Guess we will need to leave it to CCP to decide if they change how jetson works & doesn't work.
Until then though I guess it will be business as usual for everyone out there 
____________________
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 05:57:00 -
[47]
agreed.
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Vogon
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 12:12:00 -
[48]
....Business as usual...I like the sound of that....
|
DarkStar251
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 14:36:00 -
[49]
Edited by: DarkStar251 on 26/04/2004 14:38:55
Sooooo.... If i train an alt in a newbie corp, so the tag doesnt show on the can, then goto a newbie system and drop a can near a newbie station of some random loot, I can then hang about 10km out and wait for some unsuspecting newbie to open it, and blow them to hell.
I'm not that much of a greifer, but I know people that are.
The solution to all this is to simply ban battleships from 0.5 and up, on the grounds that the empires no longer tolerate substantial fleets of dubious empire affiliation in their home systems. This way secure space is for the newbies as it was designed, and miners can shoot ore theives if they like.
I have a strong distate for the Apoc+8 miner 2s+10 harvie stripmining ships I see in empire space, mining worthless ore when they could make 5x as much isk by removing one of the miners in favour of a tach and the harvies in favour of 6 ogres and moving to 0.4 and down (which they wont do for fear of the phantom 'ebil pirates' in SUCH insecure space. Plus they might have to actually play the game then instead of getting their mouse macro to do it for them while they work. For these people I suggest the game 'Progress Quest' where NO ACTUAL PLAYING is required.
In my opinion if the only discouragement for these people who do so much harm to the game is to be nerfed, then these stripminers should also be flagged as criminals, attackable by anyone, for large scale mineral theft from the systems claimed by Empires. I'd pod you myself but you are not worth the effort.
|
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 16:15:00 -
[50]
bla bla bla.
Silver in true form again.
Silver, i didnt bother to check if anyone here pointed this out, but afaik ccp is NOT going to make the criminal flag system bound to concord response for ore theft.
The criminal flag system will most probably mean that anyone taking the ore will be fair game to everyone else for a set period of time, as with contraband goods.
Concord will only intervene on criminal acts of a more serious nature. eg, those that warrant destruction of your ship.
So dont count your furry blessings yet m8
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 20:31:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Malvada on 26/04/2004 20:33:04
Originally by: DarkStar251
Sooooo.... If i train an alt in a newbie corp, so the tag doesnt show on the can, then goto a newbie system and drop a can near a newbie station of some random loot, I can then hang about 10km out and wait for some unsuspecting newbie to open it, and blow them to hell.
I'm not that much of a greifer, but I know people that are.
as i said, if the can has been tagged as owned (something the jettisoner has to do manually, on purpose) then a warning would pop up. this is not possible to exploit. all those involved would know exactly what was going on...
thread i made in the Idea Lab detailing this idea
your idea of limiting battleships to low-sec space is far more drastic, and kinda wishy-washy. i could never understand it. why would anyone risk a battleship to a loss at Concord's hand?
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 21:24:00 -
[52]
I don't know how the hell this is happening but I find myself agreeing with Viceroy more and more everyday.
For those who have beef with unsecure cans and getting your ore snagged...
1. Stop crying
2. Get a tissue
3. Dry your eyes and blow your nose
4. Buy a couple of secure containers
5. Deposit them strategically in the belt
6. Mine your heart out
7. Haul it back to station
8. Pour youself some milk
9. Have a cookie!
Posting for Numbnutz |
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 23:10:00 -
[53]
i've never been the victim of ore theft, as i don't mine...
the changes i'm suggesting are centered around the idea of making the game more fun, not turning the tables completely against ore-thieves.
i don't want to make jet cans 100% secure, but i do want to give the miners the opportunity to try to reclaim what someone took, and to make ore theft a bit of an actual challenge instead of the no-risk ebil-carebear underhanded tactic it is today.
what is wrong with wanting to make the game more fun?
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Grimster
|
Posted - 2004.04.26 23:29:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
I don't know how the hell this is happening but I find myself agreeing with Viceroy more and more everyday.
For those who have beef with unsecure cans and getting your ore snagged...
1. Stop crying
2. Get a tissue
3. Dry your eyes and blow your nose
4. Buy a couple of secure containers
5. Deposit them strategically in the belt
6. Mine your heart out
7. Haul it back to station
8. Pour youself some milk
9. Have a cookie!
LMAO! Excellent post Riz
|
Dexter Rast
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 00:03:00 -
[55]
Quote:
i don't want to make jet cans 100% secure, but i do want to give the miners the opportunity to try to reclaim what someone took
thats an easy one, just follow the scavanger around until he is stupid enough to drop all the ore from his/her cargo for anyone to pick up
otherwise there is a tremendously safe way to mine, dont jettison anything you want... wow can it realy be that simple i wonder
secure cans are their for a reason, use them
---------------------------------------------
|
Malvada
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 03:20:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Malvada on 27/04/2004 03:28:06
Originally by: Dexter Rast
thats an easy one, just follow the scavanger around until he is stupid enough to drop all the ore from his/her cargo for anyone to pick up
otherwise there is a tremendously safe way to mine, dont jettison anything you want... wow can it realy be that simple i wonder
secure cans are their for a reason, use them
k, why not try to wrap your head around the notion of coming up with your own comments instead of merely regurgitating the same close-minded idiotic tripe that everyone else does whenever someone suggests a change to jet cans?
what is the big deal?!
what i'm suggesting would give miners a chance to fight for what they claim as theirs. i want this because ore-theft is stupid and boring as it is. no fun at all. i want them to fight back. i like a good fight. anyone against this sort of idea is anti-pvp.
what's another word for anti-pvp... hm... what was it...
oh yeah...
CAREBEAR
i'm sowwy if the big scawy minas fwighten you... you don't hafta fight dem if you don't wanna...
Viceroy > so whats the problem?
the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back
Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts?
the hlynsiman > no by mining
Viceroy > terrorist mining? |
Caeneus
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 03:50:00 -
[57]
As I said earlier I don't mind ore thieves, everyones got to make a living. But I would like the oppertunity to swat them occasionally. It would make the ore thieves being a little more cautius, picking targets based on threat etc etc.
That and secure cans could be improved, a little more capacity. Since the largest secure can costs the same as a hauler but has roughly 40% less capacity than a hauler. Of course it would be silly having cans bigger than a haulers own capacity, how else would you drop them.
A good idea would be to have cans based on a lvl of hauler. So you could deposit a can with the base value of 3500 from your ship and increased from that point.
Not something I would do personally, when I have to mine I have a hauler next to me filling up as I go along. All an ore thief would get from me is one defender missle.
Can't think of anything witty to put here. |
Bared Bel'Medar
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 15:30:00 -
[58]
I have to agree with on silverlancer on this one. I think once the can is out, its not yours. however. I look for any LEGIT excuse to kill somebody. So I say, let the can stay the way it is. However (again). I like the flagged part, except for in corp wars. If i ever get up to Empire again, and I see a phantom squad guy, I want to pod him and take his stuff, not be attacked by the uber griefers in CONCORD.
and ffs Silver Lancer, fix your sig man!
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Maximo Prime
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 16:24:00 -
[59]
I remember when I was a noob back when I was still in trial form I saw a can just outside a station in 1.0
well because I was a noob and dont read the rules I took the stuff in the can and..well nothing happened. I went on my way. Ignorant and all as a noob
|
Lilan Kahn
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 19:30:00 -
[60]
gfusse with ebil vriminal flaging i can go ore steling in a apoc or some thing nasty.....
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.04.29 13:53:00 -
[61]
Edited by: flummox on 29/04/2004 14:05:51
Edited by: flummox on 29/04/2004 14:03:50
jettison cargo containers have a corp name attached to them to show who's can it is. furthermore, anything i jettison into space is a tool that i am using in the game. if i'm right next to it working, leave it alone. if you see it by itself in the middle of space, i'll be fine with you taking what you wish. but when i'm working along side of it, please have respect for the tools i am using to enjoy my game.
now, first of all, to Digital... if you are going to blast off about the meaning of a term, then please spell the word correctly. not doing so invalidates the entire mentality behind your statements.
and i do think that the current security implementation, that was put into the game, after the initial release, is ****-poor at best. as a result, it has turned the so-called safezones as extremely dangerous to people who are trying to enjoy their game. let's see, i'm in secure space, but i cannot defend myself in any way shape or form without some cop coming in and taking out my ship/cargo. which is the very thing i'm defending in the first place. i'm not even outfitted for attack anyways, because i'm probably just tooling around in an indy. so, either way i'm screwed.
here is my proposal:
leave it like it was before you changed it. which means no cops show up, unless someone attacks at a station or gate. but keep the security status hits (or perhaps up the losses in accordance with the new system). any player going around attacking others in Empire space won't be able to do it very long. once they reach the -2.0 (which shouldn't take too many attacks) they won't be able to go to any bases or gates without CONCORD blowing them to pieces. allow people to protect themselves. you let us run our own economy. so let us run our own police forces. or at least don't just blow up anyone who attacks. in this system, people who just want to go around being idiots in Empire space won't be able to effectivly do it for very long. either the cops will just harrass them to death in Empire space, or good people in the world will be able to beat the snot out of the ****ant who is making my game miserable. it's an exploit of a system and you know it. being able to act like a criminal without any response is an exploit of the system. not being able to defend myself, and also not being able to change and shape the world of EVE (something that i was believed mentioned in almost every preview and marketing material about the game) is just not satisfying for the players. i don't see how this isn't apparent. there has got to be a better way than there is now. it really needs to be changed.
or, to be more realistic and actually have CONCORD be a strong force. don't allow any pvp in Empire space by having cops warp in and disable all weapons and warp jam all ships. have them announce something like "there is no fighting allowed in these systems." put a timer on it. so after the cops let you go, and a player wishes to ruin someone's game in that system, or any Empire space even, then the cops come and drill him a new ****shoot. it's kinda unrealistic (i suppose) with the game mechanics to have these uber-powerful cops, but at least the space would be secure when it should be. or gee, just have all weapon modules go offline when jumping into 1.0 space or something. that way there is always a system for noobs to mine in. i don't know what would work better. but any of those is much better than the double-edged security system you have in place now.
please please please fix this. i can't even see how hard they would be to implement in the code versus what you implemented in the past.
please fix this.
okay. thank you. good bye...
flummox
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2004.04.29 16:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Digital
Malvada I see all points you have said there, and they are very valid, but...
What about if I for instance have some loot I have picked up that I no longer want,
Escrow, 0 isk, done.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2004.04.29 16:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
I don't know how the hell this is happening but I find myself agreeing with Viceroy more and more everyday.
For those who have beef with unsecure cans and getting your ore snagged...
1. Stop crying
2. Get a tissue
3. Dry your eyes and blow your nose
4. Buy a couple of secure containers
5. Deposit them strategically in the belt
5a. realize that newbies don't have Anchoring and watch them get confused as they try and fail to set a password, therefore this whole argument is ****e.
but hey, for your heartwarming badass rendition of jadedness, rendered POINT BY POINT no less for extra badassness, have the whole JAR.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
|
Posted - 2004.04.29 20:56:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
but hey, for your heartwarming badass rendition of jadedness, rendered POINT BY POINT no less for extra badassness, have the whole JAR.
BH you are very correct I am very jaded by this topic. 10 months of reading "wah! my @#$%ing ore got stolen" is driving me batty.
Posting for Numbnutz |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.04.30 09:35:00 -
[65]
I'm *so* proud of viceroy, it brings a tear to my eye every time he unleashes the simple truth.
.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |