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Is This Harassment?

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Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 18:21:35 Is it harassment to bump a guy in an asteroid belt twice, he complains about it and then try to kill him all in high security system? I ask because a Gm gave me a final warning for this, and i don't see how that is right being as open as eve is and i've never once saw anything that said bumping is harassment. If i bumped the guy 20 times i could understand how this would be harassment but bumping a guy twice, him crying over it in local and then I try and kamikaze him in my Tristan he lives (Epic Fail)so after 15 mins i come back in a vexor and chase him to his new belt (same system) thats the end, harassment? i thought normally when you try to kill someone they run, if chasing after them is harassment then something is seriously wrong. I figured all this was fine since we saw the jihad bombing of countless number of miners from Goonswarm and their reign of terror there, so how is this case truely any different? Because he cried about it, before i tried to kill, even though it was my intention from the moment i bumped him? To me this isn't the eve i thought i was playing, which i thought was opened ended can pretty much do anything you want except of course "You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game." (Eve EULA) I don't believe i did any of those things, i used no harsh words wasn't offensive other than trying to kill him, but i don't believe that fall under that, please any comments.. and yes i know im a real jerk.. but other than that is this truely that bad?
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:21:00 - [2] Bumping someone repeatedly in high-sec space is considered harassment, I believe. Why? Well, unlike virtually any other form of "griefing" in EVE, there's literally nothing you can do about it short of never undocking or leaving high-sec.
Yuleth Gix	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:22:00 - [3] Doesn't sound like harassment to me. If I was you'd i'd petition it, if you're really telling us the whole story it should be cleared up.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:22:00 - [4] You bumped him twice... Fail2Kill and then give a little chase... Visit me please.. I'd love to have a chuckle while mining.
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:29:00 - [5] Did petition and the Gm i talked with if you call it that, pretty much said the other Gm thought it was harassment, thats it, didn't look into just left it like that. I believe the orginal Gm felt more compelled to do this because there was a group of three, while i tried to kill the one, i think they all posted harassment on me even though i playing around with mainly with the one guy. Further its worth noting that they said i was messing with a new player, I didn't Check which i guess is bad, but he was a month old and in a retriever, doesn't seem to be to young and he was in a .7 or .8 which had rats in the belts...
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Gone'Postal You bumped him twice... Fail2Kill and then give a little chase... Visit me please.. I'd love to have a chuckle while mining. Tristan (2 Rockets, 2 blasters) trying to killing a retriever in 10 secs with no other mods isn't that easy to do you know
AeonPhoenix	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:32:00 - [7] Edited by: AeonPhoenix on 24/04/2008 18:34:52 Maybe it is in the rules, but damn what a crybaby for making a petition about it. No better then a telltale playground snitch over a double bump. I remember last I did anything like this it was a hauler I bumped in a belt once and he went flying, It was a spare of the moment thing as I went there to rat, yet he was ranting in local for about 10 minutes, I didn't try and suicide gank him though, never occured to me at the time.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:38:00 - [8] I'd say this story is missing vital parts. Probably the smack talk on local and that the OP is a repeating offender, hence the "final" warning.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:38:00 - [9] Is bumping macro miners at belts also harrassment? It's one of the few non-violent ways in which honest player can disrupt their farming operations. Why should CCP protect those farmers?
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Face Lifter Is bumping macro miners at belts also harrassment? It's one of the few non-violent ways in which honest player can disrupt their farming operations. Why should CCP protect those farmers? CCP applies the same rules to all players. Unfortunately this includes farmers. However, no macrominer is going to petition you. It'd be like a pedophile asking the FBI to investigate whether someone defrauded him.
Siresa Talesi Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Jing Kai Did petition and the Gm i talked with if you call it that, pretty much said the other Gm thought it was harassment, thats it, didn't look into just left it like that. I believe the orginal Gm felt more compelled to do this because there was a group of three, while i tried to kill the one, i think they all posted harassment on me even though i playing around with mainly with the one guy. Further its worth noting that they said i was messing with a new player, I didn't Check which i guess is bad, but he was a month old and in a retriever, doesn't seem to be to young and he was in a .7 or .8 which had rats in the belts... (Boldface added for emphasis) Repeated bumping is clearly defined as harassment. Specifically targetting one player for greifing-type behavior is also defined as harrassment. Messing with a new player? Harrassment. CCP has clearly stated their position on all these activities several times in the past. So to answer your question: yes.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Siresa Talesi Repeated bumping is clearly defined as harassment. Specifically targetting one player for greifing-type behavior is also defined as harrassment. Messing with a new player? Harrassment. CCP has clearly stated their position on all these activities several times in the past. So to answer your question: yes. And thus endeth the thread.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Siresa Talesi Repeated bumping is clearly defined as harassment. Specifically targetting one player for greifing-type behavior is also defined as harrassment. Messing with a new player? Harrassment. CCP has clearly stated their position on all these activities several times in the past. So to answer your question: yes. And thus endeth the thread. AND IN A BELT OF ALL PLACES!!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! I DEMAND A REFUND!

Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Chribba AND IN A BELT OF ALL PLACES!!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! I DEMAND A REFUND! Stop channelling your customers...
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Abrazzar I'd say this story is missing vital parts. Probably the smack talk on local and that the OP is a repeating offender, hence the "final" warning. No i spoked no smack talk, some people called me some bad words, which i can't repeat in forums but i didn't reply them back to anyone. And also for repeated bumping... two bumps seriously? i get that all the time, does that mean if i report people for it they will start getting final warnings for it? Try undocking in a trade hub and tell me some guy wont start bumping you in nano-ship... And repeat offender? Nope first time i actly purposely was bumping someone....
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:08:54 Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:07:37 Originally by: Siresa Talesi Originally by: Jing Kai Did petition and the Gm i talked with if you call it that, pretty much said the other Gm thought it was harassment, thats it, didn't look into just left it like that. I believe the orginal Gm felt more compelled to do this because there was a group of three, while i tried to kill the one, i think they all posted harassment on me even though i playing around with mainly with the one guy. Further its worth noting that they said i was messing with a new player, I didn't Check which i guess is bad, but he was a month old and in a retriever, doesn't seem to be to young and he was in a .7 or .8 which had rats in the belts... (Boldface added for emphasis) Repeated bumping is clearly defined as harassment. Specifically targetting one player for greifing-type behavior is also defined as harrassment. Messing with a new player? Harrassment. CCP has clearly stated their position on all these activities several times in the past. So to answer your question: yes. So then if someone kamikaze kills me and not the person next to me also, they are harassing me? Also a Month old is a new player? time shouldn't show a new player or not, due to alts and crap, i saw a guy in a retreiver mining with a group of people... doesn't seem that new..
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Jing Kai So then if someone kamikaze kills me and not the person next to me also, they are harassing me? If they go after you, and only you, repeatedly, and for no reason, then yes.
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:10:09 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jing Kai So then if someone kamikaze kills me and not the person next to me also, they are harassing me? If they go after you, and only you, repeatedly, and for no reason, then yes. I wasn't repeatedly, i failed the first time, so i went for a 2nd time... he lived first time... so don't think that should count as being repeated
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Jing Kai I wasn't repeatedly, i failed the first time, so i went for a 2nd time... he lived first time... so don't think that should count as being repeated Read Siresa Talesi's comment again and take special note of the added emphasis – there was repetition on your part.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Jing Kai Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:10:09 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jing Kai So then if someone kamikaze kills me and not the person next to me also, they are harassing me? If they go after you, and only you, repeatedly, and for no reason, then yes. I wasn't repeatedly, i failed the first time, so i went for a 2nd time... he lived first time... so don't think that should count as being repeated And then you followed him to a new belt.... He left the area and you STILL went after just him, by definition that is harrassment Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Hawkspur Firestarter Amarr TiS Industries Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:17:00 - [21] I don't see how bumping someone in a belt twice is harassment. Sounds to me like the GM in question just got his knickers in a twist over nothing.
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Jing Kai Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:10:09 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jing Kai So then if someone kamikaze kills me and not the person next to me also, they are harassing me? If they go after you, and only you, repeatedly, and for no reason, then yes. I wasn't repeatedly, i failed the first time, so i went for a 2nd time... he lived first time... so don't think that should count as being repeated And then you followed him to a new belt.... He left the area and you STILL went after just him, by definition that is harrassment So if your trying to kill someone, they warp to a new belt, you stop trying there, if thats harassment then damn i harass and get harassed alot... i think pvp is just a giant game of harassment then! OFC when your trying to kill someone u chase them?! wth why would you stop just cause they ran?
Falcon Troy Caldari Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:21:00 - [23] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 24/04/2008 19:22:55 I canflip and then just blow up the ore for kicks. How is bumping much different? Or suicide ganking? CCP really needs to update some game rules and define what exactly is harassment in EVE and what is just gameplay. _____________ Hai.
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:22:00 - [24] If it is harassment, then I don't understand why. It looks completely arbitrary to me, something you have to know before you undock in a > .5 system if you don't want to put your account in danger. That's why I use highsec only for logistics and trading. I prefer to play the game without a lawyer at my side all the time. I might change my mind if I ever get so bored of playing the game the normal way that I have to resort to metagaming to have fun. For this, highsec should be the perfect playground.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Jing Kai So if your trying to kill someone, they warp to a new belt, you stop trying there You stopped there, but you didn't begin with trying to kill him. Again, re-read the entire line of events as highlighted above.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Falcon Troy I canflip and then just blow up the ore for kicks. How is bumping much different? One immediately obvious difference is that canflipping means he can fight back.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Jing Kai So if your trying to kill someone, they warp to a new belt, you stop trying there, if thats harassment then damn i harass and get harassed alot... i think pvp is just a giant game of harassment then! OFC when your trying to kill someone u chase them?! wth why would you stop just cause they ran? Try this a little clearer: 1) You didn't have shoot rights, check 2) He wasn't a war target, check 3) You previously bumped him in the belt when there were others around to mess with also, check 4) You already tried to suicide him, check 5) You followed him to another belt, check 6) You went after him again even though others were around, check You decided to single out one specific person. By CCP's definition, greifing is singling out one player with the interest in driving them from the game or purposely interfering with their play. It is the primary reason that Wardecs do not follow an individual and that they can leave corp when there is a dec. Had you made suicides at other players in the meantime, dorked around with other players' cans and generally caused mayhem to players OTHER than that one you could have argued the point and probably won. But by singling one person that is unattached to you in any way other than they exist, you made yourself vulnerable to a GM action. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Jing Kai	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:46:00 - [28] Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:46:18 Because he was the one who was crying about it the others, as in other group other people in belts, not just him and they didn't cry about it, so i didn't continue to mess with them, i stole from everyone in that belt... he cried about me taking 25 ore out of his can that had like 10,000 ore in it so i bumped him twice and cried more so i attempted to kamikaze him...
Falcon Troy Caldari Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Falcon Troy I canflip and then just blow up the ore for kicks. How is bumping much different? One immediately obvious difference is that canflipping means he can fight back. How do haulers fight back when they get suicide ganked?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Jing Kai Edited by: Jing Kai on 24/04/2008 19:46:18 Because he was the one who was crying about it the others, as in other group other people in belts, not just him and they didn't cry about it, so i didn't continue to mess with them, i stole from everyone in that belt... he cried about me taking 25 ore out of his can that had like 10,000 ore in it so i bumped him twice and cried more so i attempted to kamikaze him... Hey, we are just explaining why the GM might have viewed it as harassment since you asked for an explanation. We didn't write the rules, we only get warned when we skirt around them just like everyone else. Did you make SURE to put in your petition that you retaliated because of him smacking you in local? I know harassment petitions have been denied in the past because ISK changed hands or because of smack in local. Did you make SURE the GMs were told the whole story and WHY you did it? Other than that you already have your answer from 2 GMs shrugs Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear

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