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Anti-isk sellers policy "collateral losses"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.25 14:57:00 - [91] Lmao. I bet all these people complaining that their legit ISK was stolen are the same ones who complained that CCP never did anything about RMT.
Snaps	Posted - 2008.04.25 15:00:00 - [92] look, i lost my guy do to a lie, it can happen. i did get him back but they can jump the gun somwhat. dont make us nerves dev's/gm's so i hope you guys are getting this right for the most part.
Poreuomai Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.25 15:11:00 - [93] Originally by: Ko Shimin I logged in 2 days ago and found my main account with 300 million isk less. In wallet I see a reversed trade between me and a player I don't even know. Petition reaveals that this transaction was reversed because the GMs thought that I bought isk from that player. ... Since the GMs don't want to return MY isk, I have decided to give up on EVE Online. There is no point in playing a game where the GMs can rob a player's hard work. Please publish your API key so we can see if you are telling the truth.
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 15:13:00 - [94] in other threads: omg ccp do something about isk sellers! ccp fails! in this thread: omg ccp dont do anything about isk buyers! ccp fails! it's an endless beautiful cycle.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.25 16:06:00 - [95] Originally by: Faife in other threads: omg ccp do something about isk sellers! ccp fails! in this thread: omg ccp dont do anything about isk buyers! ccp fails! it's an endless beautiful cycle. In the deleted threads you can no longer look at:- Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred during secure ETC sales. Lock. Delete Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred by you selling a mothership to somebody. Lock. Delete. But you wouldn't know that, because of the Lock, Delete, bit. They don't want people knowing that they screw up. --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 16:19:00 - [96] Originally by: Fifth Horseman In the deleted threads you can no longer look at:- Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred during secure ETC sales. Lock. Delete Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred by you selling a mothership to somebody. Lock. Delete. But you wouldn't know that, because of the Lock, Delete, bit. They don't want people knowing that they screw up. i totally believe you. really.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.25 18:43:00 - [97] Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 25/04/2008 16:20:30 Edited by: Poreuomai on 25/04/2008 16:05:04 Originally by: Ko Shimin I logged in 2 days ago and found my main account with 300 million isk less. In wallet I see a reversed trade between me and a player I don't even know. Petition reaveals that this transaction was reversed because the GMs thought that I bought isk from that player. ... Since the GMs don't want to return MY isk, I have decided to give up on EVE Online. There is no point in playing a game where the GMs can rob a player's hard work. Please publish your API key so we can see if you are telling the truth. EDIT #1 Oh, I see you have, well done. EDIT #2 Wait, you changed the key already? LOL Yeah, I think he's full of it. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Datei Naru	Posted - 2008.04.25 19:56:00 - [98] Edited by: Datei Naru on 25/04/2008 20:01:36 Edited by: Datei Naru on 25/04/2008 19:59:27 ok lets take it like and and if i read his story correctly this is what happend. this guy is a ... or should I say, was ß very active Player because of this he made a lot of isk. Somehow an isk seller got hold of his account and transfered isk from him to one of his accounts. Then a GM go's to investigate, notices he makes tonns of ISK, notices a transfer to an isk selling character, and he thinks he puts 2 + 2 together. This is generally called a misunderstanding in my book. that is, if the OP is speaking the truth. If so, though the sequential rant was unnessisairily thorough, I do think this is a matter that could be solved better. Its as simple as this, your account was randomly raided by someone who managed to find your password (keylogger probably). If CCP is becoming more vigilant against isk sellers they need to watch even harder who they step on. Though I don't know how the person that raided your characters wallet could have placed a keylogger on your pc... there are a few ways (links on the forums, 3de party programs... or ofcourse ISK seller sites...) I in real life know an ex-player who was a big alliance leader, and he had a lot of isk stored up. He won't give it to me ... but if he did the GM's would probably see it as an isk selling practice due to the large amount of ISK that he could transfer to me. (And yes i'm posting this with an alt... you think i'm posting that information on my main, uh uh i'm not looking forward to spam eve-mails). what i'm trying to point out is, is that not everyone who gets large amounts of isk has to be an isk seller, and in general those people would be tasty targets for keylogger attacks. If those people would be hit it would make them instantly suspecious. Yes people with large ISK inflow that send isk to random character for no apparent reason could indeed by isk sellers. BUT NOT EVERYONE THAT DOES THAT HAS TO BE AN ISK SELLER. I therefor stand by the OP and would like to say to CCP that they have to watch who they step on. Only difference is, i'm not and would never quiting eve over it.
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:16:00 - [99] It seems pretty obvious to me shat went down... You sold some stuff to an isk seller.... and he got busted for selling isk. They went thru his outgoing money logs and removed/reversed all transactions paying no attention the the one (or two) that were actually legitimate. Your corp/alliance should help you recover. You should not quit over this.
Datei Naru	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:23:00 - [100] Originally by: Lord Dynastron It seems pretty obvious to me shat went down... You sold some stuff to an isk seller.... and he got busted for selling isk. They went thru his outgoing money logs and removed/reversed all transactions paying no attention the the one (or two) that were actually legitimate. Your corp/alliance should help you recover. You should not quit over this. thats... actually even more likely... I didn't think of that.
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:30:00 - [101] Originally by: Datei Naru thats... actually even more likely... I didn't think of that. or, you know, he could have just bought a crapload of isk and is lying to us. occam's razor and all.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:32:00 - [102] So, more importantly. This guy often sells faction items where he just uses donations? Not Even putting the money directly in the trade, and clearly not using contracts. That is the single fishiest thing in the thread because it doesn't even make sense.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:33:00 - [103] Originally by: Lord Dynastron It seems pretty obvious to me shat went down... You sold some stuff to an isk seller.... and he got busted for selling isk. They went thru his outgoing money logs and removed/reversed all transactions paying no attention the the one (or two) that were actually legitimate. Your corp/alliance should help you recover. You should not quit over this. GM's don't usually reverse transactions as far as I'm aware, they reverse ISK donations. The only case I can think of is where someone gave someone else a massive amount of ISK through a trade window or sold him a rocket for 300 million ISK.
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:41:00 - [104] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Datei Naru thats... actually even more likely... I didn't think of that. or, you know, he could have just bought a crapload of isk and is lying to us. occam's razor and all. Well,, yea,,, then there is this possibility
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:44:00 - [105] Originally by: Lord Dynastron Originally by: Faife Originally by: Datei Naru thats... actually even more likely... I didn't think of that. or, you know, he could have just bought a crapload of isk and is lying to us. occam's razor and all. Well,, yea,,, then there is this possibility But what about the possibility that he ones stole from one of the GMs, and the GM has then created a fake ISK seller character, spawned up some money (from a Dev), sent it to that guy, and then reversed the transaction after noticing that he had spent enough to put him in the negative. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:50:00 - [106] Originally by: An Anarchyyt But what about the possibility that he ones stole from one of the GMs, and the GM has then created a fake ISK seller character, spawned up some money (from a Dev), sent it to that guy, and then reversed the transaction after noticing that he had spent enough to put him in the negative. Then an escalated petition would solve that very quickly. If the OP is innocent he would escalate the petition, obviously. ---------------- Tarminic - 35 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Carver Moriarty	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:53:00 - [107] IÆm going to give the OP some slack since I have not seen any proof as to whether he is telling the truth or lying. But he did make a mistake, and im a newbie so I could be blowing smoke out my arse, but he did not use a secure method of trading. As far as iv seen there are several ways to trade where you most definitely will not show up on a GMs chopping block, and to clarify, I do agree that a GM could have made a mistake, they are human not AI supercomputers. But if the OP had used a secure trade method he never would have been caught in a GMs mistake providing he is telling the truth. If you are telling the truth OP, then donÆt quit, stick it out, escalate the petition, and start trading with the secure methods. If you are lying then shame on you, you are perpetuating a disease that infects all MMOG's and deserve that which has been served. As a note for everybody, CCP is a game company, they OWN this game, when it comes to decisions, they are Judge, Jury, and executioner. IMO I applaud them for their effort in eradicating this disease, other game companies go after the sellers themselves and only the sellers, but because people keep buying the in game currency with real money more sellers are hired/created to keep up with the demand, it ends up being an unending process, but if you stop the buyers from buying, the sellers no longer have customers money to support their currency selling. Unfortunately this method does have its flaws, sometimes some wheat is thrown out with the chaff. Im betting that these mistakes are severely punished. As the OP is demonstrating, mistakes like that can cost CCP customers, and customers are money. So itÆs possible a GMs job is on the line if he makes too many "mistakes". To end my verbose voicing I will ask a question. If some guy stopped you on the street and told you he would give you a million dollars, and shows you the cash, for your fifteen dollar watch, would you take it from him and spend it?
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:55:00 - [108] Originally by: An Anarchyyt But what about the possibility that he ones stole from one of the GMs, and the GM has then created a fake ISK seller character, spawned up some money (from a Dev), sent it to that guy, and then reversed the transaction after noticing that he had spent enough to put him in the negative. There simply isn't enough tin-foil in the world... ;-) -Grid
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.04.25 22:02:00 - [109] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 25/04/2008 16:38:04 Originally by: Fifth Horseman In the deleted threads you can no longer look at:- Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred during secure ETC sales. Lock. Delete Yeah, we kinda screwed up, sorry, we don't normally remove ISK transferred by you selling a mothership to somebody. Lock. Delete. But you wouldn't know that, because of the Lock, Delete, bit. They don't want people knowing that they screw up. i totally believe you. really. eve-search.com is your friend, almost every deleted and locked post from this forum exist there for all to see, and they even use the original threadID. This is why the GM's should be very careful when they use wide-sweeping terms like always , forever, and every single time, the players have a way to call BS... At least I have chicken
PhantomMajor Minmatar De-Medusa Industries.	Posted - 2008.04.25 22:41:00 - [110] well if i were you, i'd look through my wallet and locate the name of the GM who removed your ISK, then go over to the crime and punishment forum and place a bounty on the GM for 150 million isk. if everyone starts doing this, then pretty soon being a GM wont be such a rewarding career in EvE. oh and if your name happens to be Mhonaverge or Leader Tim, i'd start looking over your shoulder when you undock from now on Ladies and gentlemen, we will shortly be experiencing some exploding followed by some crashing...so i'd hold on if i were you!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.25 22:48:00 - [111] Originally by: PhantomMajor well if i were you, i'd look through my wallet and locate the name of the GM who removed your ISK, then go over to the crime and punishment forum and place a bounty on the GM for 150 million isk. if everyone starts doing this, then pretty soon being a GM wont be such a rewarding career in EvE. oh and if your name happens to be Mhonaverge or Leader Tim, i'd start looking over your shoulder when you undock from now on Good plan. I approve of this, because tipping GMs for removing RMT ISK is a great idea.
fuze Gallente InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:04:00 - [112] Chances are great he's caught red handed. But those ISK sellers are tricksy hobbitses so for what's worth they are creating fake paper trails to obscure their evil deeds. That or finding out how CCP are tracking them. Its a constant cat and mouse game. I wouldn't be surprised when competing ISK sellers are 'PvP'ing with with eachother. I also can imagine that some tired sweatshop worker made a typo and sent the money to another toon. Or even another toon on purpose bought ISK and ask it for to be sent to his enemy. There plenty of ebil people who will use dirty tricks like these.
Cissnei	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:30:00 - [113] Originally by: Evita Achura Originally by: Ko Shimin Nope! That stuff is my hard work and it will go to hell with me.. Please go there quickly. You are late for your reservation on the probe-mo-tron 5000. Also if the gm was at fault petition, then escalate it. They will fix it. If they don't post proof that you are not a RMT whine alt. Otherwise GTFO = ----> this really isnt the core of the issue the real core of the issue is - what's to stop it from happening again? the answer to that right now is - nothing. and that is the big problem lower level gm's for this game need some retraining on what a 'reversal' actually is. if the op sold an item for 300m, and the fool that bought it used isk from rmt, the op should not be punished. the buyer should be punished lets look at gtc sales. you sell some gtc's securely using eve's tool to a character in game. turns out this is an rmt'er who just bought from you. what does ccp do? do they nuke you, in essence taking $15 real life dollars (+international fees taht american banks tack on) from the seller while the buying rmt basically gets off nearly scot free (losing more cash and continuing to play an account that now has 30 days for basically free as they macro mined, or losing the account outright and just making yet another), or do they only nuke the buyer? we need a clear, set-in-stone policy on what is going on. this is getting out of hand. IF i sell an item to somenoe who used rmt bought cash i should not be punished as there are NO CLEAR tools in game to protect any seller from this. you folks are touting a war that is giong to increase the need for more modules and ships. this will in turn increase the need for more isk. this will actually increase the number of rmt transactions as there are plenty of dimwits who will not take advantage of the gtc avenue. this in turn will mean a larger amount of rmt acquired isk in the game. you need to set in stone the policy now, and the policy can be NOTHING short of the following: situation: seller sells an item either in trade or on the market. buyer used rmt isk. solution: remove double isk from buyer or ban buyer. if you want to remove the isk from teh seller, you need to reimburse the item. period. or leave the damned isk alone your policies are bordering on pure hypocrisy. i personally have not had to endure any of this as yet - but you can bet i will be trolilng the hell out of these forums if i'm screwed over like the op. if I need money and if i dont feel like 4 boxing for a bit (yes, another 4..actually SIX account holder here) to make it i take advantage of the gtc system. there is no need to use rmt services even if they are substantially more isk for less money. but if i should get dinged cause some dimwit who bought one from me used isk he got from an rmt'er (r-tard logic there), you can bet it will actually be an issue i will take up with my credit card company since using such a service here has a rather large paper trail.
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:39:00 - [114] Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 25/04/2008 23:42:50 Originally by: Ko Shimin (snipped for bandwidh preservation) here's what I would do if this happened to me: 1. cancel subs and put money in jar instead 2. jar eventually reaches X $ 3. buy planeticket to Hawaii 4. Prey to Pele (goddess of fire/volcanoes), asking her to devour Iceland and sink the remains beneath the atlantic waves. If Iceland remains where it is, I will have gotten a trip to Hawaii out of the deal. My point is: dont get mad, get even.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:44:00 - [115] Originally by: PhantomMajor well if i were you, i'd look through my wallet and locate the name of the GM who removed your ISK, then go over to the crime and punishment forum and place a bounty on the GM for 150 million isk. if everyone starts doing this, then pretty soon being a GM wont be such a rewarding career in EvE. oh and if your name happens to be Mhonaverge or Leader Tim, i'd start looking over your shoulder when you undock from now on Aside from the fact that 150mil isn't the large sum of money these days you think it is, what exactly would that do? I mean, it might be funny seeing people try and attack a Polaris.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:57:00 - [116] Shut up and cancel, we don't care how many accounts you have. That is all. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Poreuomai Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:40:00 - [117] Originally by: Doc Fury eve-search.com is your friend, almost every deleted and locked post from this forum exist there for all to see, and they even use the original threadID. This is why the GM's should be very careful when they use wide-sweeping terms like always , forever, and every single time, the players have a way to call BS... Then it should not be too hard for you to provide a dozen links where that happened which have been deleted on the main forum.
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.04.26 17:38:00 - [118] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Doc Fury eve-search.com is your friend, almost every deleted and locked post from this forum exist there for all to see, and they even use the original threadID. This is why the GM's should be very careful when they use wide-sweeping terms like always , forever, and every single time, the players have a way to call BS... Then it should not be too hard for you to provide a dozen links where that happened which have been deleted on the main forum. You can do this yourself on a very recent one, by using the search terms "General Meathead" there. When pressed about the deletion in another thread, a DEV chose to place some spin on the topic here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=754835&page=2#44 Given how much of a hair-trigger the GMs and DEVs seem to have lately regarding things that are potentially embarrassing for CCP, you might understand why I might refrain from linking directly to external materials to preserve my forum posting privileges. At least I have chicken
Sally Bestonge GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.26 18:59:00 - [119] well you can easily make anyone's wallet negative isk's with a bit of sideways thinking.
Poreuomai Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.27 11:01:00 - [120] Originally by: Doc Fury You can do this yourself on a very recent one, by using the search terms "General Meathead" there. When pressed about the deletion in another thread, a DEV chose to place some spin on the topic here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=754835&page=2#44 I cannot find the deleted thread in eve search, maybe you can link to it?

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