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Anti-isk sellers policy "collateral losses"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 05:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Ko Shimin on 25/04/2008 05:55:28 I logged in 2 days ago and found my main account with 300 million isk less. In wallet I see a reversed trade between me and a player I don't even know. Petition reaveals that this transaction was reversed because the GMs thought that I bought isk from that player. In the last few months I had multiple transactions with other players in 300m range by selling plex items like Dread Guristas Invulnerability Shields and other stuff, so most probably the GMs reffer to one of those transactions or.. it can be a mistake from their side. I never bought any isk. I play this game with 4 accounts to cover efficiently all areas of the game and to have a steady flow of isk into my wallet. A casual game session for me is with 2 accounts running level 4 missions/plexing/exploring and the other 2 accounts mining/manufacturing. Since the GMs don't want to return MY isk, I have decided to give up on EVE Online. There is no point in playing a game where the GMs can rob a player's hard work. Some of you might say "get over it, farm fast and continue playing". That is not the case. Also, the GM responded: "It is absolutely certain that all donations from this character were being sold for real money." Oh really??? Do you have any proof that I DID PAY??? You have my bank statement proving that I payed anything to the owner of that character??? No?? Then you friggin certainity is just circumstancial.. I know I can recover the ROBBED isk in about 2 days play time, but why should I? The isk I have been ROBBED of is not the only problem. I have lost more than that. Actually my loss would be: 300 million isk + the time spent to gather the isk (which translates into subscription fee) + the time needed to recover the loss. There is also a matter of pride and trust. I cannot stand idle and raise my shoulders saying **** happens and continue playing, that's the pride thing. The trust thing is, if this happened once, why shouldn't it happen again???? So I have cancelled my accounts. I want to congratulate CCP for it's way of insuring it's loss of subscribers. In my case the 300m isk would be the value of a 60 day time code. So, you CCP for a 60 day time code (which by no means was stolen from you as I HAVE NOT BOUGHT ANY ISK).. worth, how much? 25-30$? You have lost the following: 4 accounts worth 60$ each month (my accounts) an EON Magazine client (my subscriptions) worth about 60$ a year (or 15$ per issue) another 5 accounts worth 75$ each month (my brother in law is cancelling along with me) another EON Magazine client worth about 60$ a year (or 15$ per issue)(my brother in law also buys EON Magazine) plus more to come as 3 other real life friends that played the game see no more reason to play as me and my brother in law are quitting. They have another 7 accounts total which could be another 105$ a month if they will quit also. Good job CCP! You just made a VERY BAD deal.. I think that I'll save this year's game subscriptions and EON subscriptions and spend it all at the local w.h.o.r.e.house for some prime time, at least that will be something pleasant to remember.. Too bad that this unique and great game is ruined by your insatiable hunger for $ and your "trigger happy" GMs.
z0de Gallente The Bastards	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:02:00 - [2] Can I have your stuff?
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:06:00 - [3] Nope! That stuff is my hard work and it will go to hell with me..
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:11:00 - [4] The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Robert Rosenberg The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again. Go f.u.c.k yourself if you don't have anything intelligent to reply to this topic..
Awox Minmatar Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Robert Rosenberg The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again. Yes, but the GM's are also pretty stupid, and have been wrong countless times before.
BaT21	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:23:00 - [7] We should have a option to set who we want to accept isk from.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:32:00 - [8] Originally by: BaT21 We should have a option to set who we want to accept isk from. How would that change anything? The op seems rather upset tbh... he really should just give me his stuff and move on. If a trade was "reversed" wouldn't that mean you got back whatever was worth 300mil isk in the first place? Did you escalate the petition? I don't want to see the GM responses, but really... Expecting people to care when the majority of your post/replies (replying to trolls is bad, mkay?) are inflammatory and try to detail how much real money CCP is losing... With subscription rates up, I very much doubt they're losing out a whole lot. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.25 06:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Robert Rosenberg The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again. Yes, but the GM's are also pretty stupid, and have been wrong countless times before. Yes, but any actually innocent person would escalate the petition to a senior GM who can see reason rather than post on the forums and quit. Innocent people ALWAYS follow the system because they are that sort of law-abiding person... This guy is obviously an ISK-buyer, his outlandish claims of CCP losing five magazine subscriptions and something like twenty accounts over him losing 300m ISK? Yeah right.
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:06:00 - [10] GMs are humans too (or special bread hamsters), and make errors. Escalate petition if you didnt buy isk. And you got 4 accounts, earn some new isk. FFS, you quit because some GM 'robbed' you in an online spaceship game? You gonna commit suicide when someone robs you irl of 30 dollar? Quote: Actually my loss would be: 300 million isk + the time spent to gather the isk (which translates into subscription fee) + the time needed to recover the loss. Stupidity FTW. Your loss would be: 300 million OR the time spend to gther the isk OR the time spend to gather the isk again. Not 'and' Anyway, can i haz your stuff?

Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:18:00 - [11] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 25/04/2008 07:19:08 Originally by: Ko Shimin RMT Stuff I read a post by CCP Prism X i think who said that this could be easily(?) verified if the user posted his full API key to the public. Then we the players could see for ourselves that he or she did not speak out of their arse. So, could you post your full API key please to verify your words? Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:20:00 - [12] This is like the 3rd guy in the past 2 weeks to post a cry thread on general forum about the GM's unlawfully taking away all there ISK. I'm beggining to wonder if this is a RMT attempt to incite some riot to pressure CCP to lighten up on how they are keeping them from leeching off the game. If not - I keep seeing and hearing the same crap, I don't know much about the policy though - in terms of weither or not CCP will confiscate the ISK in this situation - weither or not the player is aware or not. If these are ligit-whines and the truth is not being strenched, I agree that immensly sucks and is completely and utterly unfair for the player who losses all the ISK. They did nothing wrong, and more importantly - they had no way of telling that it was bad ISK they traded for. As I said - I havn't really read these threads, and I don't know the policy in terms of this - but If its ligit I think CCP should require the GM's to reverse the said transaction. Like - if a RMT buyer buy's a ship off a innocent player - CCP should have the GM's reverse that deal - THEN confiscate the ISK. I see absolutly no reason at all why that should not be done - if it is not done, I'm going to presume that the GM's do not have the payrole to take that extra step for ensure a quality, pleasurable gaming experience. I hope not though, that would be a major headshaker. I may be way off, as I said I havnt really read these threads much - usually because it all reads: whine whine whine to me. And I havn't really read the policy section on this. But - from what I do know and think - well, I just posted it. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Amastat This is like the 3rd guy in the past 2 weeks to post a cry thread on general forum about the GM's unlawfully taking away all there ISK. I'm beggining to wonder if this is a RMT attempt to incite some riot to pressure CCP to lighten up on how they are keeping them from leeching off the game. If not - I keep seeing and hearing the same crap, I don't know much about the policy though - in terms of weither or not CCP will confiscate the ISK in this situation - weither or not the player is aware or not. If these are ligit-whines and the truth is not being strenched, I agree that immensly sucks and is completely and utterly unfair for the player who losses all the ISK. They did nothing wrong, and more importantly - they had no way of telling that it was bad ISK they traded for. As I said - I havn't really read these threads, and I don't know the policy in terms of this - but If its ligit I think CCP should require the GM's to reverse the said transaction. Like - if a RMT buyer buy's a ship off a innocent player - CCP should have the GM's reverse that deal - THEN confiscate the ISK. I see absolutly no reason at all why that should not be done - if it is not done, I'm going to presume that the GM's do not have the payrole to take that extra step for ensure a quality, pleasurable gaming experience. I hope not though, that would be a major headshaker. I may be way off, as I said I havnt really read these threads much - usually because it all reads: whine whine whine to me. And I havn't really read the policy section on this. But - from what I do know and think - well, I just posted it. Well, I dont know about the truthfullness in this OP, but some of the other OP threads have after some scrutiny proved CCP did correct.. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Messerschmitt facility Amarr Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:36:00 - [14] Once upon a time a GM took 1 bil from my wallet. But with clear head and advancing 3 times through the petition levels, I got my bil back after 6 months. Some GM's are idiots. They do the same thing over and over again so you have to believe them they are so bored, they don't even care to actually check or double check. But the GM you are currently dealing with is not the only one. Also you do have to be correct as well. Claiming something is not true might not help you even if you get the attention of a DEV who is willing to go in all the small details with you. _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:41:00 - [15] Edited by: Shanur on 25/04/2008 07:43:31 Publish your full API key so that we can see for ourself the ISK came from legitimate trades, or STFU. Since you are no doubt a man of your word you won't use your account anymore anyway so you needn't concern yourself with people looking at your wallet, and this would at least expose the GM's for the frauds you claim they are, provided you aren't actually full of horse manure of course. Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:44:00 - [16] God... you can make 300mil in 2 days! why am i in low sec space doing missiom runs and trying too rat just too lose ships and make nothing..
PwnzDeLeOwnz Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Shanur Publish your full API key so that we can see for ourself the ISK came from legitimate trades, or STFU. Yea! Post your account name and PW too so we can make sure your account is valid as well
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:48:00 - [18] Why couldn't you make a more original post... something that starts like "My friend gave me ISK as a gift..." () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Robert Rosenberg The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again. That hardly means anything tbh. -----
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:51:00 - [20] Originally by: PwnzDeLeOwnz Originally by: Shanur Publish your full API key so that we can see for ourself the ISK came from legitimate trades, or STFU. Yea! Post your account name and PW too so we can make sure your account is valid as well API key != login information. Besides, he said himself he was never going to play anymore. Are you going to deprive him of his final chance to prove he was telling the trush and avoid being branded a trolling liar? Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.

Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:56:00 - [21] Self importance (impotence ), thy name is Ko Shimin () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Ko Shimin Nope! That stuff is my hard work and it will go to hell with me.. Please go there quickly. You are late for your reservation on the probe-mo-tron 5000. Also if the gm was at fault petition, then escalate it. They will fix it. If they don't post proof that you are not a RMT whine alt. Otherwise GTFO = ---->
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Robert Rosenberg The GM's have stated that you are full of BS, so thanks but try again. That hardly means anything tbh. Well you are in the corp that would know
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:41:00 - [24] CCP are currently engaged in a campaign called "The War on GM Reputation". The majority of these threads are ending with GM's apologising for screwing up, then getting deleted so nobody knows, particularly, the fanboi rabble still think, wrongly, that every one of these threads is an ISK buyer whining. It seems to have started about 3 weeks, maybe 4. Something changed and a lot of people of losing out. My CEO, having been punished for ISK buying over a year ago by having the ISK removed at the time, recently had it removed again. Had that occurred two months ago, I would have considered moving onto a new corp. But considering the outrages I read about thrice weekly on here, I'd rather believe some CEO I don't know, than somebody, anybody, with a GM prefix. --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:53:00 - [25] Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/04/2008 08:53:26 Help channel ingame can be pretty intresting. The record was 3 people whining within 2 hour that their isk was removed, for a total of arround 15 billion. One of them admitted he bought it, one first admitted it, and later denied it, and the last one said he got it from a 'friend'. Why dont my eve friends send me a few billion
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:58:00 - [26] Originally by: OffBeaT God... you can make 300mil in 2 days! why am i in low sec space doing missiom runs and trying too rat just too lose ships and make nothing.. 2 characters doing level 4 missions and 2 mining in hulks all in highsec.. yep.. you do 100-200m isk a day depending on how much you play..
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:59:00 - [27] *Sends furb 1 billion, then reports him as a buyer () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.25 08:59:00 - [28] 99% of these thread have the op receiving isk from sellers. Sometimes the seller will say "here is 300mil transfered to your wallet, pass me the item" on trust. Of course, to a Gm, that looks the same as the isk seller giving you straight up isk for RL cash. Moral - Always use contracts, Trades or market orders. A GM confirmed they are never ever reversed.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Scout McAlt 99% of these thread have the op receiving isk from sellers. Sometimes the seller will say "here is 300mil transfered to your wallet, pass me the item" on trust. Of course, to a Gm, that looks the same as the isk seller giving you straight up isk for RL cash. Moral - Always use contracts, Trades or market orders. A GM confirmed they are never ever reversed. Wrong wrong, wrongitty wrong. Absolutely brimming with wrongability. Maybe 99% of the threads that CCP don't delete are about genuine ISK buyers. GM confirmed, actually, they don't reverse ISK transferred through secure ETC, nothing to do with market orders, trades. In reality, we've had threads where they DID. But those threads are now deleted. You gotta wonder why. The vast majority of these threads are CCP screwing up, and it would be wonderful to know what changed and sent CCP on this mad rampage that is screwing innocent people over. You can't ransom ISK farmers for fear of CCP's retribution on ISK. In fact, without a secure ETC you can't really transfer any ISK, even for valuable goods, without risking an over zealous GM poking his nose in. Did CCP suddenly start paying GMs commission on ISK reversals? What? Something changed and the GMs went insane. What was it? --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:21:00 - [30] Ko Shimin, if you go multiple lines of defense you have to think it over first... Originally by: Ko Shimin In the last few months I had multiple transactions with other players in 300m range by selling plex items like Dread Guristas Invulnerability Shields and other stuff Originally by: Ko Shimin Also, the GM responded: "It is absolutely certain that all donations from this character were being sold for real money." Oh really??? Do you have any proof that I DID PAY??? You have my bank statement proving that I payed anything to the owner of that character??? No?? Then you friggin certainity is just circumstancial.. If your first statement is true and applicable here you wouldn't have to use 'circumstancial' defense in the second quote; just say "it wasn't a donation it was a legit trade". There's no internal consistency in your rant, that doesn't make you any more believable than the hundreds of other isk buyers who whined about it on the forums. Skills Explained



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