Originally by: LittleTerror

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If they boosted afterburners speed, they would have to do something else drastic with it, such as increased cap use and harder to fit. This was the whole reason they had to put a sig penalty on the mwd and yes at one time they did not have the sig penalty and you could even fit 2 of them. Which really was quite bad since it made small ships very hard to hit and despite it being fun to have that choice of fit I believe there was alot of crying about it.

Yes I do sometimes use afterburners on PVP fits and they can work quite well, they don't have a cap penalty so I can tank more and they make me harder for bigger ships to hit me. They also don't need as much fittings, so that lets me fit bigger guns and still have some extra speed, they are hardly useless.

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Originally by: Maor Raor

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to me it reads more like unfitting the MWD from your ship but i understand that the forums lend themselves to hyperbole.

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Quote:

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I personly am glad that you, (Liang Nuren) who i have seen in the past blindly flameing people who even hint that there is a balance problem with speed fits, agree that there is room for tweeking the gap between MWDs and AB.

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Originally by: Maor Raor

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Originally by: LittleTerror

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If they boosted afterburners speed, they would have to do something else drastic with it, such as increased cap use and harder to fit. This was the whole reason they had to put a sig penalty on the mwd and yes at one time they did not have the sig penalty and you could even fit 2 of them. Which really was quite bad since it made small ships very hard to hit and despite it being fun to have that choice of fit I believe there was alot of crying about it.

Yes I do sometimes use afterburners on PVP fits and they can work quite well, they don't have a cap penalty so I can tank more and they make me harder for bigger ships to hit me. They also don't need as much fittings, so that lets me fit bigger guns and still have some extra speed, they are hardly useless.

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Agreed. if they boosted ABs to be more effective they would have to take a look at the fitting requirements and possably add peneltys to them much like they did with MWDs.

I am suppriesd that you find the small speed boot they give to be that usefull in PvP and im interested to see how widely that view is held.

My only real gripe with ABs vs MWDs is that the gap between the two is so huge.
I believe that there is an arugement to be made that the speed boost ABs have should be moved to somewhat closer to half way as powerfull as MWDs.

I would love for the two to both be a viable way to achieve higher speeds but each having their different quirks, strengths and weeknesses.
Perhaps MWDs being the kings of streightline speed with current peneltys in place and ABs for a ballance between speed manuverbility with some sort of penelty added to some other stats.

I believe there is an arguement to say that there is a need for a mid lvl speed boost so its not just either MWD speeds or base speed.
I feel that currently ABs dont fill this role and realy should.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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But back on topic: Yes, the AB is broken. I'd never fly one in PVP unless I were going into deadspace. Perhaps faction warfare will bring more deadspace into the game as viable PVP locales?

-Liang

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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I never really realized how sad this is. Well how unrealistic. Good thing we are in our pods :).

4282 m/s would be 436.94 Gs.
306 m/s would be 31.22 Gs.

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Originally by: Man Bewbs

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Edited by: Man Bewbs on 26/04/2008 08:28:14


silly alt

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Originally by: Fyrewyre

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: Fyrewyre

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Right now your just being silly, your moaning because you cant catch a ship because its faster than you, just use a different ship, a faster one?

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No. He's pointing out that almost any ship with a MWD, outruns almost any ship without a MWD. And using frigates compared to battleships to illustrate this.

The OP makes an excellent point.

I'd also like to throw an oar in, that the divergence is also worse than it appears - larger ships have more slots, which exacerbates this particular difference.

Personally, I find MWDs are mandatory PvP mods.

I would rather they weren't.

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Well of course it would, any ship with a MWD would outrun anything without one, so where is the problem?, why would you not fit a MWD if you were able to?, you can always set your speed if you need to, its the blue bar at the bottom......

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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I never really realized how sad this is. Well how unrealistic. Good thing we are in our pods :).

4282 m/s would be 436.94 Gs.
306 m/s would be 31.22 Gs.

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It is not those numbers that are sad, unfortunately. ^_^ Were you perchance sleeping through every physics/math class?

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Originally by: Tarminic

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What about reducing the speed bonuses of cruiser and battleship-sized MWDs?

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Originally by: Mecinia Lua

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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I never really realized how sad this is. Well how unrealistic. Good thing we are in our pods :).

4282 m/s would be 436.94 Gs.
306 m/s would be 31.22 Gs.

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It is not those numbers that are sad, unfortunately. ^_^ Were you perchance sleeping through every physics/math class?

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Nope :) I wasn't.

With the MWD going most ships reach full speed in less than 10 seconds. So on the high end ships that's still more than enough to crush the bones of every crewmember on the ship.

I showed it for 1 second so you'd divide mine by 1/10th. The burst of acceleration is enough to kill you.

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Originally by: Thargat

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Small ships mostly use MWDs to get in range, speedtank and get out of bubbles.
Medium ships mostly use MWDs to get in range and get out of bubbles.
Large ships mostly use MWDs to get out of bubbles.

Don't fit an MWD and that bubble will make your life VERY difficult.

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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So, what do these numbers say? The numbers say that as soon as a battleship equips a Microwarpdrive frigate size ships will be utterly unable to catch the battleships without fitting a propulsion mod themselves. Even worse, most frigate-size ships will even be unable to catch most MWD-battleships if they just fit an Afterburner (AB).

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Originally by: Mr Nick

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The OP has a valid point, that MWDs are a little bit too much of a necessity to remain competitive in PVP (that does not consist of fighting purely within docking range), although I think the statistics you've chosen do not make the point clearly.

You're still comparing one mid slot speed module with another, and ABs do have their uses over MWDs, though the penalties on the MWD are often acceptable for their increased benefit. MWDs are faster than afterburners, thats their point. You're also missing out a lot of very important factors which determines how competitive the two examples you have given are, namely acceleration, sustainability and agility. These three things combined have a huge impact on how the fight plays out and usually means that a frigate, even moving relatively slower than a MWDing battleship, will have many advantages which make it able to get a tackle at some point.

The MWD as a module should not be removed, however it does need to be balanced with the afterburner to give greater choice. Either a MWD should not give such a powerful speed increase, afterburners should give a more effective speed increase, or some new penalty should be applied to a MWD to give it a more refined purpose. My vote is the third option.

I've always thought that a MWD should give a powerful speed increase but at the cost of manouverability, effectively meaning that if you use a MWD you travel in a straight line very quickly, but have a hard time manouvering. That would keep the MWD useful, but give the AB a purpose in combat which requires manouvering, you could zip around at reasonable speeds, or keep a MWD to disengage when it was required (which is how battleships tend to use their MWD anyway). This would also give scope to balance the stasis web, which is by far the most powerful single module in the game, but necessary at the moment to keep some semblence of balance.

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Originally by: Pilgrippa

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Just tossing an idea out there:

What if fitting an AB made you immune to webs?

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Originally by: soulkiller3

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Am sorry but no matter how fast you are going in SPACE G = 0, and MDW are not unbalanced AF need somthing to make them more usefull

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Originally by: Mose Eisley

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Originally by: soulkiller3

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Am sorry but no matter how fast you are going in SPACE G = 0, and MDW are not unbalanced AF need somthing to make them more usefull

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Off topic: G-force is a result of acceleration and has absolutely nothing to do with gravity (other than using standard earth gravity to describe the amount of acceleration).

I would like to see a bit of a rebalanced between webs, afterburners and MWDs. Maybe lessening the effect of webbers on ships that don't have MWDs equipped or something like that. It would be nice if MWDs and webs were not "must have" PvP mods.

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