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On the upcoming expansion, the "Empyrian Age"

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Mr Toril Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:01:00 - [91] Wow some really great ideas here. I especially like Ruoskas idea when you sign up and then gets picked for a team and gets handed a ship and a diffrent namne. But there needs to be somekind of lose when you die, maybee lose lp or something like that? A universal ranking would be great. Face Lifter talks about one of the bigg issues. What happends when one faction gains the upper hand? Maybee you could split the large faction into several smaller ones? A large empire often has problem holding togheter. Then the rankings are reset and everyone can sign up again. I think what corp/allliance/race your are should not matter. Just sign up for one side and fight. Al though it should be hard to switch side.
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:24:00 - [92] I had an idea about factional warfare as I was reading about it the other day. I think that newb corps should be open PvP against one another from newb corps that the factions are at war with. I think this idea would be great for the game and for factional warfare. Allow newb corp members to run for director slots and open it up to operate more like player corps, other than a chat room, but with certain restrictions in place. Newb corps can't war dec player corps, corp hangers can only be placed in stations owned by the corp, every 2-3 months new directors are voted on. Players can't be given rights to operate station services, or refuel (unless they added a thing into faction warfare to where you can attack convoys fueling the stations of your enemy and it actually stopped the station from being online). This would also force those carebears that stay in newb corps for 2-3 years to actually get out and play the game. Any additional ideas of how this could work would be great, what should the newb corps be able and not able to do.
sgt carlini Caldari The 11th Order	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:31:00 - [93] One thing I would like to ask is: Will the war be all about fighting? Will miners and manufactures be able to support the "war effort"? I am a miner personally and though this sounds great I don't wan't to be left out. When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear!
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:18:00 - [94] Edited by: Andrue on 29/04/2008 20:21:34 Originally by: Sakura Nihil Originally by: Andrue Most people do not enjoy being podded. That's why so few games have such harsh penalities. Historically CCP have done a good job of balancing their desire for a hardcore gaming experience against their desire to have large numbers of subscribers. Unfortunately I suspect that as the demands on the server require greater and greater investment it becomes harder to exclude the mainstream with a harsh experience. I don't enjoy being podded either, but when you undock, you have to have the mentality that your ship, pod, and immortal soul are already dead. But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. If the point of FW is to act as a bridge between carebearing and PvP it will have to start off with a safe environment. L5s have proved (if any proof were needed) that carebears will not just wander into low-sec because of something new. I see FW as potentially a new aspect of the game. Something that is entirely optional and if current PvPers don't want to do it they don't have to. At no point did I say that I felt podding should be removed from the game. Only from FW. You can continue exactly as you are now podding war targets and 0.0 residents to your heart's content. I'm just suggesting that you need to be gentle with carebears if you want them to change. It's no good saying "oh you've got to be tough to fight" because most will respond with "Oh well, I ain't tough, I'll stick with missions, thank you". First let them experience PvP and learn how to cope with it. Then when they have some confidence in their abilities they might cease to regard podding as a serious risk. At that point they are ready for PvP - or maybe that's why you both object to this. You suddenly see that it could result in the vast Empire hordes becoming proper PvP experts who will show you up for the cowards so many of you really are. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.29 21:53:00 - [95] Originally by: TimGascoigne I think this is all spelt wrong what you mean to say is "Empyrean age" as inEmpyrean not "Empyrian Age" as the title says. Otherwise nice post but I don't understand why people want factional warfare? like who cares because I'm quite happy with the way empire works. That is being less profitable than 0.0 I've already brought this up. The OP got the incorrect spelling from an article that not only spells it wrong, but doesn't spell it consistently.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.29 21:59:00 - [96] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 29/04/2008 16:10:36 Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Andrue Because this is a computer game and I want to have fun with no risks. If I want risks and excitement I'll tell my boss' boss what I really think of their long term strategy and will introduce my girlfriends to each other. Then you should stop playing Eve now, because Eve is about risk. Don't be silly. What risk can there be in playing a computer game? Eve is about two things only: Providing fun for players. Providing money for CCP. Most people do not enjoy being podded. That's why so few games have such harsh penalities. Historically CCP have done a good job of balancing their desire for a hardcore gaming experience against their desire to have large numbers of subscribers. Unfortunately I suspect that as the demands on the server require greater and greater investment it becomes harder to exclude the mainstream with a harsh experience. I have high hopes for FW but I suspect that unless they can get it to appeal to the wider 'pacifist' playerbase it is going to flop like L5 missions seem to have. I've been playing Eve for over four years now so I think I have a pretty good idea what it's about and a pretty good idea of what CCP are capable of. Given the amount of time and preparation FW has had I think it'll turn out quite well but not everything they do does. Level 5 missions have flopped because they don't actually pay much more than L4 missions, given that you need more people to actually finish them. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:00:00 - [97] Originally by: Andrue But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. I don't understand why carebears (I mean people who want to play with no risk, not miners or mission-runners necessarily) would play a game built around the idea of risk, non-consensual PvP, and the possibility of the loss of months worth of progress. I don't like sports, so I don't play sports games. I don't play sports games and then whine about having to throw and catch balls.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Andrue But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. I don't understand why carebears (I mean people who want to play with no risk, not miners or mission-runners necessarily) would play a game built around the idea of risk, non-consensual PvP, and the possibility of the loss of months worth of progress. I don't like sports, so I don't play sports games. I don't play sports games and then whine about having to throw and catch balls. Its not just eve. I play starcraft and meet sim city players all the time. All they do is build a pretty base and thats it. But if thats fun for people, then they are allowed to do it. -- Billion Isk Mission
Killer Kelly Caldari Risen Heretic Armada New Eden Federation.	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:04:00 - [99] CVA is gonna have a ball with this thing, man. ___________ I Get Money in New Eden Federation
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:26:00 - [100] Originally by: Kyra Felann I don't understand why carebears (I mean people who want to play with no risk, not miners or mission-runners necessarily) would play a game built around the idea of risk, non-consensual PvP, and the possibility of the loss of months worth of progress. I don't like sports, so I don't play sports games. I don't play sports games and then whine about having to throw and catch balls. The game is not built around the idea of non-consensual PvP. The mechanics exist for this yes. It is built around flying spaceships. Since you use the sports example, perhaps you occasional enjoy walks in the park? There may be people playing sports there. What if they throw you the ball and expect you to play at that point? No - "well then you are missing the point of the park, it is a place for sport." You would disagree there is more to the park than sport. Quote: CVA is gonna have a ball with this thing, man. You haven't been seeing what the CVA guys have been saying have you? They have a vested interest in Providence. I highly doubt there forces are going to be directly involved in it because of this. They may provide direct support to Amarrian loyalist fighting for the Empire in the form of cheaper T2 ships. You can expect corps like PIE to have a ball with this. No offense to the 0.0 pvp fanatics with territory, but I highly doubt you will be getting seriously involved with FW unless you are willing to give up vast areas of 0.0 to those alliances not supporting the State, Empire, Federation, and Republic. Not an LDIS press release.
Datura Melody	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Andrue But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. I don't understand why carebears (I mean people who want to play with no risk, not miners or mission-runners necessarily) would play a game built around the idea of risk, non-consensual PvP, and the possibility of the loss of months worth of progress. I don't like sports, so I don't play sports games. I don't play sports games and then whine about having to throw and catch balls. Its not just eve. I play starcraft and meet sim city players all the time. All they do is build a pretty base and thats it. But if thats fun for people, then they are allowed to do it. My roomate in college has a strange way of playing starcraft. He would create a custome map, disable the AI so it wouldnt do anything, then play the map for 2 hours simply building stuff, until he had a full base, everything researched, and max units. he would then fly this armada over to the AI's base, which had a command center and just the starting harvesters. He would gank that in about 5 seconds, at which point the map is finished, and he would restart. That being said, i will never understand how people are surprised that a large rework in game design warrants a reduced failsafe initial deployment. FW wont be complete on patch day. To expect so just shows how you do not understand the software development process, especially the development process of software running live services.
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.04.30 01:21:00 - [102] Personally, I would have liked something akin to DAOC's RvR system...like in the frontier realms. Something I can sink my teeth into when I want, and at the next play session, choose not to participate in without consequence to my current playstyle in my current play areas (all of high sec). When I speak of consequences, I don't even mean, getting my ship blown up. I speak more about.. will I screw my standings up that I can't travel around to other faction's space as I can now? Will other faction members be able to attack me wherever I go (as war targets are able to now). How quickly can I turn off FW and get back to normal gameplay with my friends? Ect, ect. That's the kind of consequences that I, as a carebear who likes the occational PvP, am concerned about when it comes to FW. I assume I am the type of EVE player this expansion is focused at.. the risk adverse, part-time PvP gamer. I do find WoW battlegrounds to be fun in small doses. I found DAOC RvR even more fun, because it it had persistance, larger goals, ect. Yet my PvP time in EVE as a percentage of my entire playtime, is way less than either of those games (DAOC being the highest by far).
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:08:00 - [103] Originally by: suzie stormbringer I hope the 4 races have equal numbers. Would be a bit unfair if say caldari outnumbet gallente 5 to 1. PF wise it'd be the other way around, but hey, not our fault if the dirty Gallente are unpopular and don't make it wort our while. Would be fun to see a Batallion of Caldari. Torp ravens in the front, Rokhs and Scorpions in the rear with some Nighthawks and rooks as support while the Crows and nanocerbs play with the gallente. Would need an octo-smartbombing BS squad to deal with the omfghax Moros drones though.
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:10:00 - [104] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Tankn00blicus Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 28/04/2008 01:55:44 With this system the whole of empire will be owned by caldari. Too many damn caldari mission runners, in ravens. and you really think those missiosn runners are a match to pvpers? I think 2-3 torp raven NPCers per PvPer in a domi or mega turns into a field of Gallente wrecks. A mega will have problems 1v1 against a raven, 3 will put all sorts of hurt on it.
Hurs Sokira Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.30 03:29:00 - [105] Originally by: Dex Nederland Since you use the sports example, perhaps you occasional enjoy walks in the park? There may be people playing sports there. What if they throw you the ball and expect you to play at that point? No - "well then you are missing the point of the park, it is a place for sport." You would disagree there is more to the park than sport. So by this argument, if I enjoy walks in the park, I should be 100% safe when walking in said park in the middle of the night? What if some parks have become zones of turf wars between rival gangs, should I expect said parks to still be 100% safe? So when thugs will start chasing me, should I yell to them: "guys, guys, not in the park!" EvE is not being advertised as hard-core combat game, but it is not advertized as Animal Crossing either. The game is being built around the idea of taking responsibility for your own action.
Hurs Sokira Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.30 03:55:00 - [106] And while we are on the topic of personal responsibility and we have Devs listening to the thread... Please, please make standings count this time in most of players' inteactions with enviroment. The beauty of EVE is that most actions have far-reaching consequences. Standings is a perfect mechanism to ensure those consequences happen. Right now they are being used very little, for mundane stuff, like LPs and refining efficiency. Each station, whole constellations seem exactly the same, there is absolutely to difference if I dock at Caldari Navy station or at Federal Navy one, there is no compelling difference to pick one over the other. Make standings count for everything: docking permission and fees, taxes, amount of bounties, clone charges, etc. etc. Make standings affected by PvP. Kill too many Minmatar NPCs and/or Republic-loyal pilots, and you cannot travel to Rens to buy cheap modules anymore, you cannot dock at Minmatar stations without paying a hefty bribe (affected by Criminal Connections skill). On the other hand, Amarr stations greet you with open hands and cheaper services. Make standings collected during Factional Warfare play in Ambulation, high standings can allow pilots rent offices in Navy stations, that otherwise be inaccessible to "civilians". People with similar standings will start congregating in certain systems, there will be a sense of camaraderie, players will feel that people around them share the same background and they will interact more. This will bring an incredible level of depth and immersion in the world of EvE. Do not waste this opportunity.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.04.30 04:16:00 - [107] It sounds exactly right to me. Structure = provides place for casual players to PVP and the whole "half-way house" between empire hugging and 0.0 sounds like A Good Thing as well. I do see longer term issues possibly arising from how they implement this (persistence of penalties/rewards for example) but provided this is out in the game world and properly dynamic I don't see why it has to be like BG. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.04.30 06:44:00 - [108] Originally by: Sakura Nihil This is going to be EVE's version of battlegrounds. I said this eons ago. Stop using my words! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Ellyra Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.30 06:52:00 - [109] I'm only two months into the game and can't wait for this to happen. It's always fun to be part of something huge. and CCP seems to have thought this out for sometime so i'm optimistic. I'm posting a sugestion: The event that sparks the war should be Gallente terrorists nuking the Jita 4-4 station. Just imagine it, the thousands of victims and billions of ISK damages :) ____________________________________________ Start every day with a smile and get it over with
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.30 06:56:00 - [110] Originally by: Andrue But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. Just because someone doesn't think a certain way doesn't mean that they shouldn't be subject to the same rules and risks as everyone else. I don't care how carebears think or how the non-carebears think. I only care about how I think, and I will interact with you according to my rules. You of course interact with me according to your rules. That's the way this game works.
Najenna Minmatar Caldari Deep Space Ventures Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.04.30 07:56:00 - [111] Originally by: CCP Greyscale I was thinking about making a Phantom Tollbooth reference here, but I'm guessing nobody else would have the first idea what I was talking about... Regardless, the information you're working on, while fundamentally correct, has gone through a number of filters which make teasing from it the precise mechanical details an inexact science at best. Most importantly, the intent of this sort of interview is generally to impart information to non-players, and thus everything has to be translated into Layman by both interviewer and interviewee. Trying to translate it back into Player is the equivalent of the old English->German->English trick, in that while in the theory the fundamental meaning is conserved, in practice you terminate Kauderwelsch frequently above with a bundle. Inevitably some people are going to be disappointed with anything we do; hopefully more details will be available in the very near future in native Player so you guys can get your teeth into it. In the meantime though, let me just say that "WE ARE NOT MAKING EVE BATTLEGROUNDS" was a founding principle of the design. The fact that people are managing to derive "omg fw is eve battlegrounds" from this interview is indicative of nothing but the fact that generalist interviews are not a great source of detailed information, and that our players have active imaginations, both of which constitute known knowns, to quote His Rumsfeldness Not to sound stupid but can you please put all of that into laymens terms please you used alot of big words and you actually confused me more than help me. CCP GreyScale Hits your brain for a "Wrecking Migraine".
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.30 08:00:00 - [112] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Andrue But carebears do not think like that. That's the problem! When will you hardcore types ever get it into your heads that carebears do not think like you. I don't understand why carebears (I mean people who want to play with no risk, not miners or mission-runners necessarily) would play a game built around the idea of risk, non-consensual PvP, and the possibility of the loss of months worth of progress. I don't like sports, so I don't play sports games. I don't play sports games and then whine about having to throw and catch balls. Why do you have to understand them? The are present in Eve. They represent the majority of people in this world. Millions of people play solo computer games, watch TV and read fiction. None of those things 'achieve' or 'risk' anything. They are done for fun and relaxation quite often as a change from their daily job which does allow them to achieve something and take risks. I wasn't asking for Eve to change. Merely making a suggestion based on what I've read that FW is supposed to be doing. If FW is the next 'big thing' for everyone in Eve then clearly podding has to be part of it. But in at least a couple of interviews it has been said that it is supposed to help the carebears join in PvP. For that to happen I just think that there has to be some safe, fluffy area where carebears can learn the ropes. When you're teaching someone to swim you don't take them out to sea and throw them naked off a liner into the middle of the Atlantic. You take them to a local swimming pool, put floatation devices on them and let them paddle around in the shallow end. Personally I don't need mollycoddling. I have an alt that is quite happy to do PvP. I don't find it particularly entertaining since it's mostly waiting while trying to hunt someone down but I can do it. Unlike you, however, I can acecpt that other people think differently to me and I can understand their needs and feelings. Eve could be revitalised by getting more carebears to evolve into PvP. If FW can do that it'll be the best thing to hit this game since the 16th of February 2004 -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:50:00 - [113] Originally by: Andrue I wasn't asking for Eve to change. Merely making a suggestion based on what I've read that FW is supposed to be doing. If FW is the next 'big thing' for everyone in Eve then clearly podding has to be part of it. But in at least a couple of interviews it has been said that it is supposed to help the carebears join in PvP. What currently happens is that there are several degrees of carebearism. 1. The uber carebear who would never pvp even if his losses was full reimbursed and paid to do it. These guys are Sim City players basically. 2. The med range carebear who is happy to do pvp as long as his losses are re-imbursed and compensated for time wasted. Otherwise he plays the game Sim City style 3. The "convertable" carebear who wants to pvp but cannot be bothered with people logging off, WCSing, nanoing, blobfest and other "pvp" features. He lacks time for that stuff so spends his time carebearing. There are more categories, but the three above are for the most part cover what we have in eve. It is only Category 3 that will join FW. The other two are simply not going to join it. In addition, a lot of pvpers from alliances will be joining FW for the promise of lagless, blobless pvp where, as the rumors go, that NPC's will balance sides out. Since Alliance warfare is not for everbody, this will seem very attractive for people to get a alt in or even join with their mains. I might get my alt's corp in as well, depending on hows its implemented. In short, FW will attract as many people from the carebear community as lvl5's do, but it will attract a huge amount of the pvp community in my opinion, who are looking for fights. -- Billion Isk Mission
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.30 10:00:00 - [114] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Trying to translate it back into Player is the equivalent of the old English->German->English trick, in that while in the theory the fundamental meaning is conserved, in practice you terminate Kauderwelsch frequently above with a bundle. Heheheh - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:20:00 - [115] Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Sakura Nihil This is going to be EVE's version of battlegrounds. I said this eons ago. Stop using my words! Its all good . Also, random thought regarding FW - is Ambulation being released with it, or has it been pushed back to the release after next? Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:59:00 - [116] Edited by: Andrue on 30/04/2008 12:00:26 Originally by: Lord WarATron In short, FW will attract as many people from the carebear community as lvl5's do, but it will attract a huge amount of the pvp community in my opinion, who are looking for fights. Quoting from an interview with Hilmar, the CEO of CCP: "Beyond expansions we are told that in this coming summer, the dev team will be looking "aggressively" at the idea of story-based factional warfare that would see players be given PvE quests that would lead players into PvP. The hope is that this will get more players more excited about joining the living, breathing political world of Corps, PvP, territory control and more." If taking part in FW means risking gankers and podding for bugger all rewards in low-sec (ie;L5 missions) then no-one is going to be fooled. No amount of reward (or at least no reward that can possibly be accomodated within the Eve universe) will persuade carebears to move to low-sec. CCP have to address the perceived risk factor, at least at first. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
ShadowMaiden Amarr Metal Machine	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:33:00 - [117] Warning: Side-effects of Expansions and Patches may include speculation, jumping to conclusions, over-analysis, misunderstandings, confusion, unwarranted assumptions, ten-page forum threads, baseless concerns, undue panic, virtual stampedes, threadnaughts, premature account cancellations, and hoarding of materials and isk. I wish I was a 3ft Doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes

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