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give the industralists some long term goals

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Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.01 22:51:00 - [61] I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure. How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z". Anyone want to join me?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.05.01 23:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Kvirie I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure. How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z". Anyone want to join me? Doomed to failure... you know why? Because Market Hubs form primarily based on Geographical basis. Yulai was a market Hub for years and years, until CCP nerfed the Highways, and made new ones - thus creating Jita. Basically what you are doing is admirable, but in my honest opinion a true market hub could only exist if the socio-geographic conditions are met - which they can not be created artificially by stuffing bunch of products in one place, you need a thoroughfare as well - look at Roman Empire, all major markets only existed by about four major highways that Empire had, that was it. Anyway, despite my reservations, drop me a line with your plan, maybe there are merits which you are readily apparent from a 20 line post. I might think of some additions to your market, if it is possible they would benefit me in the process, but, however, I am very skeptical about "creating hubs" artificially.
David Flavius Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.01 23:18:00 - [63] how about having services that are allowed publicly on POS, charge for docking repairs and selling and buying supplies (taxes basically) this would mean perhaps that alliances that own regions would allow non alliance people into their systems, also if you could charge for charters or something in corp owned space so has that people would HAVE to pay to place a station their and then their profits get taxed because their there that would also help. o >< i got of subject.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.01 23:37:00 - [64] Edited by: Kvirie on 01/05/2008 23:39:05 Originally by: Jinx Barker Basically what you are doing is admirable, but in my honest opinion a true market hub could only exist if the socio-geographic conditions are met - which they can not be created artificially by stuffing bunch of products in one place, you need a thoroughfare as well - look at Roman Empire, all major markets only existed by about four major highways that Empire had, that was it. I am aware of the geographical location issue, the question to that answer lies with observing the map and major routes, finding where on those routes there are locations which present opportunity. Take the State for instance. It has Jita yes, but if someone is coming from one of the busier lowsec/0.0 area to pickup stuff and leave, finding that there's a station 5-10 jumps sooner with items, perhaps not the volume, but one able to allow them to fit their ship, be it with T1, name, or T2, they will stop sooner at that spot. Admittedly I am still observing the routes and looking to see where such locations still exit to be put to use at the most efficient level. Once it is established, from there it is a matter of acquiring the commodities needed, as well as the interest by merchants and customers to make use of the avenue, rather than navigating themselves to Wal-Jita. Jita has a good location, due to the horrific bottleneck in the State, but even if the routes were to change and it became easy to bypass Jita, people would still shop there because of the ever-growing presence of goods.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:57:00 - [65] thats a good idea kvirie but can you place advertisements and dominate the market in any way except spam?
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.02 21:17:00 - [66] To dominate the market would require undercutting others and possibly even using force to keep strong competitors at bay or in check. My goal does not simply have me as the master of the hub in any way, but that would be nice since more ISK is always good for expanding ones ventures. Building the hub itself is my goal. It would be like when Vegas was created, where fame and fortune is good, but being able to look back and say "That is what we built, from nothing" is something that some may not be able to measure in ISK alone. Advertising can be done in some fashion. In game at different locations, perhaps by using corp adverts (that would be annoying to some I will admit), in the forums, however if there would be one great means to advertise the hub, this would be it.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.03 18:05:00 - [67] Originally by: David Flavius how about having services that are allowed publicly on POS, charge for docking repairs and selling and buying supplies (taxes basically) this would mean perhaps that alliances that own regions would allow non alliance people into their systems, also if you could charge for charters or something in corp owned space so has that people would HAVE to pay to place a station their and then their profits get taxed because their there that would also help. o >< i got of subject. that might get too many whines from people who want everyone forced into 0.0
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Kvirie To dominate the market would require undercutting others and possibly even using force to keep strong competitors at bay or in check. My goal does not simply have me as the master of the hub in any way, but that would be nice since more ISK is always good for expanding ones ventures. Building the hub itself is my goal. this is just one goal each style of play needs a goal
5pinDizzy Amarr Pwnage Distribution Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.06 23:02:00 - [69] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: 5pinDizzy impossible to warp scramble, lol I found strange that you and other people find this so incredible. The HIC were introduced exactly to block ships that can't be warp scrambled. So a ship that can't be blocked by a common module that can be fitted in any ship but require a specialized unit (ship and module combo) isn't so outlandish. Au conraire it make EVe more interesting and rewards people that know to prepare istead of selecting the easy solution. Adding a transport ship that can be blocked only by HICs would require some careful thought about balance but isn't a bad idea. He didn't say anything about interdictors being able to stop it, and from the context (expecially the part right after what I quoted) it seems it is clearly a "make me invulnerable" type of request. How the hell did you get from me saying they shouldn't be able to be warp scrambled to me supposedly they they can't be dictored or bubbled? If that was true they would be impossible to kill, what would be the point in that? Geez.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.06 23:22:00 - [70] there are many things you can do. 1. donate to a poor pilot ( me :( ) 2. buy a rorq, pay some ppl to protect you as you mine and use it to compress ore (me) 3. join an alliance and buy them a rorq. 4. help me on my quest to be a dread pilot <3 Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.07 17:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Zurrar there are many things you can do. 1. donate to a poor pilot ( me :( ) 2. buy a rorq, pay some ppl to protect you as you mine and use it to compress ore (me) 3. join an alliance and buy them a rorq. 4. help me on my quest to be a dread pilot <3 none of these thing are a long term goal Trashed sig, Shark was here
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:42:00 - [72] I actually think creating a new player-driven commercial or industrial center would be a nice goal to consider. And if you want to make a hub in 0.0, jump bridges can go a long way to cutting travel times. Of course, just as in real life, to own space you need to be able to defend it or pay someone to defend it. The other option is don't own space, but offer a service to those who do. No commitment to a specific alliance, no responsibility over defending territory, while still providing an outlet for industrial work. That's just a couple minutes of brainstorming from me. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Khatred ReallyPissedOff Guinea Pigs	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:51:00 - [73] I am not out of goals, I am out of time !
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:01:00 - [74] Well if you want a long term "hard" goal how about utilizing your capital and hiring a Merc combat forces to remove low sec moon mining POS's to replace the with your own. I would say setting up low sec moon mining operations of top end resources by yourself through out-sourcing of military labour under retainers and contractual agreements would be a good endgame objective for a multi billionaire industrialists. "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:59:00 - [75] I just want high-sec stations. I would buy one next to Jita 4.4 and take over all the trade! Nah seriously, something big and expensive, ultimate goal for industrialists is missing. For me it used to be T2 BPOs. Having nice collection with some of the luxury ones was nice goal and very long one too. But invention took a lot of glaze from T2 BPOs, so I am just making more ISK for the sake of making ISK without knowing what to spend them for. It is still fun (for me) and I like it, but there always should be something I am working for and this something is missing. People often say 0.0, but thanks no, I don't want to be industrial slave of some alliance. I don't even want titans, cos they have zero use for highsec citizen like me. I think that some kind of high-sec player owned structures (besides POS) would be great addition to the game. It would open new entire market - players competing with each other by providing better/cheaper station services... oh well I can keep dreaming.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:09:00 - [76] Not getting into my usual rantish arguments (and draw out Lord Fitz to lock horns again with me ), but T2 BPOs don't count as part of Industry anymore IMO. Their current pricing makes no sense in terms of manufacturing for profit, even their utility value is questionable since, if you want to be wasteful with ISK and buy a BPO "so you can manufacture for wars in 0.0",,, invention will outstrip that BPO's manufacturing capability and isk-efficiency long before a T2 BPO gets it's utility value back. T2 BPOs are now nothing more than collectors items, which is a pretty sad state of affairs IMO. I don't blame invention though. Personally I still like the idea of a low maintenance, minimal facility home you can deploy in low/0.0 For a hefty fee to the faction (in the order of a billion, maybe more a month) hi-sec outposts would be an idea too, take the strain off activities like ME research. If you don't pay the bills, Faction Police arrive and unanchor your station, jetting all peoples belongings in it into cargo cans in space. Brain fart, full of holes, but it's there. However it would be implemented, the maintenance cost in terms of isk needs to balance out with the isk-costs associated with protecting a low/0.0 sec variant. Improve Market Competition!
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:19:00 - [77] I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:41:00 - [78] Originally by: Schalac I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me. Uh, is that even seeded? Sure it's in the Databases, but I don't actually think it's a skill you can "use" yet... Improve Market Competition!
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.08 01:08:00 - [79] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Originally by: Schalac I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me. Uh, is that even seeded? Sure it's in the Databases, but I don't actually think it's a skill you can "use" yet... On my skill list it says that I can learn it. Not on market or any LP stores that I roam through but when I am able to find the book I will be training it and playing around with it.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.05.08 01:54:00 - [80] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Segge Bolled Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed. Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships? you make it sound like i only have 10 billion while if you read my post 10 billion is a very specific point and it is true what i have said about it No, I make it sound like your quoted amount of 10 billion isn't much - because I don't think it is. I did say "quote", I didn't say "wallet". I'm not commenting on your wallet amount, whatever it is, I'm being critical of your choice of amount presented by you as an example. It seems very low-end. Originally by: SiJira [logistics ships that affect pvp so i believe this clearly rules out transport ships does it not? they can be anything as long as we get more of them Actually, they're also quite useful outside of PvP. As with most things in EVE, it doesn't just matter what you've got, it also matters how smartly you apply it. As for the rest of your response, it looks like you're still demanding "MOAR!" but aren't actually saying what the "MOAR!" should actually be, with any useful detail.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.08 01:57:00 - [81] I think that's the key. They want a higher goal to strive for, but they don't know what it is, which is why they're asking for one. It's like the rich billionaire who can buy anything and everything, and starts to wonder what to do next. In fact, that's exactly what this situation is. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.08 02:01:00 - [82] Quote: On my skill list it says that I can learn it. Not on market or any LP stores that I roam through but when I am able to find the book I will be training it and playing around with it. Lol. Good way to confuse people with that UI. You probably can train it but yeah, you ever seen a "Duplicate" function when you right-click an item? I'm 99% sure that you'll just be buying another "collectors item",, at least, until it's implemented. Improve Market Competition!
Jayne Rose	Posted - 2008.05.08 03:52:00 - [83] I admit that I'm posting with an alt here, but I'm an industrialist in EvE. my main is coming up on 5 years in eve in a few days and I'm finding a lack of goals myself. For the record, I've ran an IPO, I've done t1 production. I've done t2 production. I've done invention. I've run moon mining chains. I've built an outpost (100% of my own isk, i gathered everything for the egg etc.. all done by me). Now I'm building a titan. What do i do next? I find myself agreeing with the op. There really needs to be more for industrialists to do. Something that isn't just a few clicks of the manufacturing interface and then a month long wait (ie t2 caps and super cap ships). We need something else. I've been holding out personally for the prospect of shops in ambulation but who knows when that will ever be. For the record industrialist != carebear. Carebears don't take risks I've taken plenty.
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:18:00 - [84] This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today. My Blog
Veldya	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:42:00 - [85] I think for all long-term goals you need to look at the political element, once you reach a certain point with any profession path there is always a limited degree of how far you can progress without getting involved in the politics of EVE. If you are a militant then part of the politics is to form or be part of an alliance which takes the military aspect to the next level and that is to acquire power via domination of 0.0 space. From my perspective, my ultimate long-term goals is to form a corporation of "ultra" industrialists which has high standings with all major alliances which can supply bulk military goods, can mass produce capitals in large quantities in relatively short periods of time and can provide them to major alliances for significant discounts if the corp has mining rights in various systems within those major alliances. I think having that kind of symbiotic relationship with major alliances would be my ultimate goal. I think getting an industrial corp to be that influential without being directly involved in conflicts would be the ultimate long-term goal.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:17:00 - [86] Originally by: ghosttr This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today. i like that idea the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database Trashed sig, Shark was here
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:54:00 - [87] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: ghosttr This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today. i like that idea the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database don't forget the balance issues created when someone "develops" the next solopwnmobile super NanoHAC... It would be fun though. But ships are already very customizable with different modules and rigs... all that is left is base stats, bonuses, and fittings slots. Maybe if there was a "modification process" that could tweak the base stats of a particular ship within some limits. And maybe some kind of consumable "customization kit" could be "developed" and then manufactured and sold. Imagine modding your Raven to be an armor tanking hauler... hmmm.. lag/data issues aside, such customization would probably make pvp much more confusing than it already is... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.09 01:41:00 - [88] Originally by: Alora Venoda Originally by: SiJira Originally by: ghosttr This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today. i like that idea the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database don't forget the balance issues created when someone "develops" the next solopwnmobile super NanoHAC... It would be fun though. But ships are already very customizable with different modules and rigs... all that is left is base stats, bonuses, and fittings slots. Maybe if there was a "modification process" that could tweak the base stats of a particular ship within some limits. And maybe some kind of consumable "customization kit" could be "developed" and then manufactured and sold. Imagine modding your Raven to be an armor tanking hauler... hmmm.. lag/data issues aside, such customization would probably make pvp much more confusing than it already is... Actually the way i have things outlined seems to be wuite sufficient in limiting the amount of modification to prevent people form taking things to the extreme. That is if you read my post in the linked thread -.-. I would like something besides cookie-cutter ships, with cookie cutter setups. I want to be able to produce something unique, and that is probably the best thing you can hope for as a long term industrialist. My Blog
ThaDollaGenerale Endless Destruction Total Eclipse Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.09 04:34:00 - [89] Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO!
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:02:00 - [90] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO! i just bought 300 billion units now what? Trashed sig, Shark was here

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