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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:47:00 -
[1]
there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk
the only things that can be done are just the same things someone with a billion isk or less but at a macro level
give us more logistics ships that affect pvp
give us more types of stations
give us modules that do the opposite of mobile warp disruptors and prevent anyone from warping in within a certain distance
industrial goals that can be done outside of alliances but not in high sec empire
and industrial goals that can be done completely in empire
the pvp is improved when the biggest rewards are where the carebear has to stick their neck out on the line
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Jeran Tek
Really Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:51:00 -
[2]
Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Jeran Tek
Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything.
thats the entire problem the only things that can be done have no meaning
like going for the several trillion strong personal wallet or collecting rare ships and modules
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Jeran Tek
Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything.
thats the entire problem the only things that can be done have no meaning
like going for the several trillion strong personal wallet or collecting rare ships and modules
Set up your own industrial faction in drone space?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:06:00 -
[5]
Like the others have said, you make your own goals. This isn't WoW, if you want WoW, you can play WoW, no one is stopping you.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:37:00 -
[6]
WTB Rens VI-8
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:44:00 -
[7]
You aren't going to be popular for suggesting this, neither am I for agreeing with you.
Industry as a profession is often misunderstood, we are not miners.
Many people assume the rorcal is an industrialists ship it isnt, its a specialised gang mining ship only usable for alliances.
The freighter is closer to being an industrial ship as hauling makes a large part of what we do. Im not particuarly happy with the transport ship->freighter progression but thats another discussion (see siggie).
Industry as a whole could do with a serious makeover, I dont like that what I have specialised in, most people assume is a job for a simple out of the box alt.
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:49:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 29/04/2008 21:49:48
Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 29/04/2008 21:49:41
Carebears do play key roles in PvP, gonna take a long time for pvpers to mine in their battleships then haul all the minerals to make a titan. Yet the more carebears flying freighters you have in the alliance the faster it gets created. Thus industrialists are important for any 0.0 alliance wishing to achieve a titan or even a cap fleet.
Btw make your own goals.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I habe no life. 
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:54:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 29/04/2008 21:55:00
The beauty about Eve is that it is so open ended that you can never really run out of things to do (no matter what field you're in) unless your (lack of) imagination stops you. You don't need the devs to give you "content" and tell you what you should be doing in the game.
Besides, every new combat ship that is introduced into the game is more "things for industrialists to do". It is yet another product to manufacture and a wider market to compete in than before. After all, Eve's economy is a war economy.
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Faife
Noctiscion
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.29 22:28:00 -
[10]
You have reached the end of the sandbox.
(A)bort, (R)eroll, (F)ail?
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Tai Paktu
Mortis Incarnatus
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Posted - 2008.04.29 22:33:00 -
[11]
Are you just trolling all the main professions, asking for boosts and goals? Or do you just have a lot of alts?
______
http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG |
fuze
Gallente
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.04.29 22:39:00 -
[12]
You always can start collecting rare ships as way of investment.
And hurt the ego's of the people who really, really, really wanna fly or shoot them.
Jita local had someone asking to sell a Corveus. Prolly a scam though.
Mebbe ambulation lets you run casino's, pleasure hubs etc.
Amarrian slave trade auction house thingie would be neato as well.
Or start buying shares and try to do hostile takeovers just for the lulz.
Yeah the choice of options is limited now but hopefully they put some of this cool stuff into the game in the (very) near future (soon). |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:51:00 -
[13]
Get together with some like minded industrial folks and form the economic backbone of a major 0.0 player empire.
Takes a lot more than 10 bil isk, but 10 bil is a nice chunk for getting started.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Zifrian
Gallente
GFB Scientific
Interstellar Corporate Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Like the others have said, you make your own goals. This isn't WoW, if you want WoW, you can play WoW, no one is stopping you.
What goals does WoW have other than getting gear and gold?
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:51:00 -
[15]
I say we make all items require skills to build. Make production more than just a month's training, make it so that not everyone and their grandmother can build every T1 non capital thing out there from the get go, and then have more advanced construction skills related to T2 items.
And put these in a few months in advance so that once they are needed, we don't have months of no T2 production.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:56:00 -
[16]
guys i killed a cnr, I need more pvp goals!!!!!
sorry but thats kinda what you sound like to me
and you always have the donate to Chainsaw Plankton option
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.04.30 02:11:00 -
[17]
I thought researching ME was a long-term goal?
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Stop the Feature Glut: Take the API to the Next Level
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pwnage Distribution Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 02:30:00 -
[18]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 30/04/2008 02:30:10
I'm getting kinda tired of how dismissive and uncaring the general population is on these boards, why half of you bother posting half the time except for who can spot the best one liner I've no idea.
To get to the point, I was thinking over this the other day, and I do think the OP has a valid view on this.
If you remember from the start of the game, the character makeup screen, I believe there were 3 career paths roundabouts.
Military / Business Enterpreneur / Mining and Industrialist
Now we know the engame object of the Military line is the Titan effectively.
You could argue the Rorqual being the Mining and Industry endgame ship, but I believe you can go a step further.
Ideas for the two.
Business Enterpreneur
A giant trade ship, high hp, impossible to warp scramble, no weapons, can run around be a kind of roaming shop/trader. Can sell to anyone, even potential enemies via mutual agreement on non agression enforced temporarily be some ingame mechanics.
Mining and Industry
A large mobile industrial platform, able to have unique abilities, possible something like perfect refining to anyone that uses it, and possible ability to modify/fit ships cheaper, more easily or differently.
Would certainly be interesting to have some new shiny multibillion isk ships for the richer players to sink their isk into and lose, to help deplete the growing money stashes ingame a bit.
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Havohej
Minmatar
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.04.30 02:34:00 -
[19]
Build a Titan.
That is your current industrial goal.
Originally by: techzer0
I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Reialis
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Posted - 2008.04.30 02:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Reialis on 30/04/2008 02:45:42
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 30/04/2008 02:30:10
I'm getting kinda tired of how dismissive and uncaring the general population is on these boards, why half of you bother posting half the time except for who can spot the best one liner I've no idea.
To get to the point, I was thinking over this the other day, and I do think the OP has a valid view on this.
If you remember from the start of the game, the character makeup screen, I believe there were 3 career paths roundabouts.
Military / Business Enterpreneur / Mining and Industrialist
Now we know the engame object of the Military line is the Titan effectively.
You could argue the Rorqual being the Mining and Industry endgame ship, but I believe you can go a step further.
Ideas for the two.
Business Enterpreneur
A giant trade ship, high hp, impossible to warp scramble, no weapons, can run around be a kind of roaming shop/trader. Can sell to anyone, even potential enemies via mutual agreement on non agression enforced temporarily be some ingame mechanics.
Mining and Industry
A large mobile industrial platform, able to have unique abilities, possible something like perfect refining to anyone that uses it, and possible ability to modify/fit ships cheaper, more easily or differently.
Would certainly be interesting to have some new shiny multibillion isk ships for the richer players to sink their isk into and lose, to help deplete the growing money stashes ingame a bit.
I don't really understand why you see ships as profession goals? There are plenty more game defining frontiers to conquer than just having x ship with x amount of cargo space filled with x amount of BPOs. As an established industrialist you have the financial power to really create something substantial within the world you play in.
Why own a Titan when you can own galaxies?
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motomysz
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.30 05:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 30/04/2008 02:30:10
non agression enforced temporarily be some ingame mechanics.
Fail.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:02:00 -
[22]
I think that the only "Long Term" goal an industrialist could possibly have in EVE is the conquest of the Empire space itself - in other words the NPC stations.... and direct competition with the NPC entities for services.
Or, revamp the POS, and make them like the stations but with publicly available services....
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
impossible to warp scramble,
lol
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:51:00 -
[24]
hmmm long term goal... build a titan? lol.
but really planetary mechanics woulds be a god start for this.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:52:00 -
[25]
WTF, for people obver 10 billion?
And exactly what percentage of the player base might that be?
I can't see the Devs spending time to create content specifically targeted at this miniscule fraction of players. Not likely (but you never know), however I will agree that Indusrty in GENERAL needs some serious attention.
I would add that if I had 10 bil or more, I assure you I could come up with a viable long range, amusing plan. It would most likely involve lots of explosions, announcing a LowSec chain claim, and masses of Mercs to name just one idea.
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Clinically
Gallente
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Clinically on 30/04/2008 06:55:45
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
I'm getting kinda tired of how dismissive and uncaring the general population is on these boards, why half of you bother posting half the time except for who can spot the best one liner I've no idea.
Dammit sprung 
________________
Originally by: Evil Thug
I wear pink panties.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.30 07:11:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/04/2008 07:13:38
Quote:
I would add that if I had 10 bil or more, I assure you I could come up with a viable long range, amusing plan. It would most likely involve lots of explosions, announcing a LowSec chain claim, and masses of Mercs to name just one idea.
Really? You really know how far 10bil goes? Since it sounds like you don't have 10 bil, I'll guess you don't. It took me one year and lots of playing to get my first billion, then it took me about 4 billion and 6 months to make 16 billion a lot more casually in hi sec. 10 bil isn't a huge amount.
However, I agree with the sentiment of the OP. Long term industrial goal is != Rorqual *nor* is it being forced into 0.0 to be some alliances gimp the rest of your life to provide services at fairly minimal profit while paying massive alliance fees, only to have it all swept from under your feet when another alliance stomps over and takes it.
Pass.
EDIT: Also:
Quote:
Build a Titan.
That is your current industrial goal.
Why? I manufactured T2 components because they had a low entry fee into developing a comparably massive profit in a comparatively short period of time. How is building a titan going to help me? I want something that will help me continue a manufacturing career supplying other people with the stuff they need to kill, not kill my customers.
Improve Market Competition! |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.30 07:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
impossible to warp scramble,
lol
I found strange that you and other people find this so incredible.
The HIC were introduced exactly to block ships that can't be warp scrambled. So a ship that can't be blocked by a common module that can be fitted in any ship but require a specialized unit (ship and module combo) isn't so outlandish. Au conraire it make EVe more interesting and rewards people that know to prepare istead of selecting the easy solution.
Adding a transport ship that can be blocked only by HICs would require some careful thought about balance but isn't a bad idea.
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KHEN
IGNITION.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 07:31:00 -
[29]
some ideas :
T2 dreadnoughts
T2 carriers
Super freighters (10.000.000m3 cargo, 20 Bil pu, can use stargates)
Titan sized ship hauler : able to move fitted ships, no need to repackage (because it's a pain to move all the combat ships of a corp)
Mobile Outposts, Mobile Stations ?
The Social Impact of EVE ?
Originally by: Nyphur
I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 07:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
impossible to warp scramble,
lol
I found strange that you and other people find this so incredible.
The HIC were introduced exactly to block ships that can't be warp scrambled. So a ship that can't be blocked by a common module that can be fitted in any ship but require a specialized unit (ship and module combo) isn't so outlandish. Au conraire it make EVe more interesting and rewards people that know to prepare istead of selecting the easy solution.
Adding a transport ship that can be blocked only by HICs would require some careful thought about balance but isn't a bad idea.
He didn't say anything about interdictors being able to stop it, and from the context (expecially the part right after what I quoted) it seems it is clearly a "make me invulnerable" type of request.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.30 07:51:00 -
[31]
get yourself into the cap ship business or get a jump freighter and make deals with 0.0 alliences.
or you could always explore the combat side of eve.
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Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.30 09:08:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Joe on 30/04/2008 09:16:36
Edit= forgot to add what pos networks make
Tech II bpo's Used to be the 'holy grail' of Industrial goals.
The 'orca' may be a a nice goal for empire Industrialts eventually.
Atm i think the hardest goal to set is to operate a complete POS network chain in low sec that produces sometype of 'reaction'. Its quite challanging, and needs alot of capital. It is the Ultimae 'industrial goals that can be done completely in empire'
Pe0w |
Kirjava
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.04.30 09:20:00 -
[33]
I would honestly suggest invention, grab a POS, an alt corp and move into T2 production.
10B isn't a lot yes, but throw around half of that into invention and you can have something new to work on and develop into a new business for your portfolio.
If you allready did this I apologise and disregard the suggestion.
Alternativly, solo building a titan is a feather in your cap and comes with bragging rights, sell through Chibbra and make a signature about it.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. |
Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.30 09:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: SiJira
there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk
I wouldn't know if this is true.
HOWEVER. I do recognise what I know of industry to be pretty dead-ended.
As a solution idea, what if SiJira's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher was an option?
You could make that sort of personalised invention seriously expensive, for all those high rollers out there. Item Database lovers aren't going to like it. But I like it.
---
"Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5.
95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
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Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar
Shiverau
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.30 11:40:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Fifth Horseman
Originally by: SiJira
there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk
I wouldn't know if this is true.
HOWEVER. I do recognise what I know of industry to be pretty dead-ended.
As a solution idea, what if SiJira's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher was an option?
You could make that sort of personalised invention seriously expensive, for all those high rollers out there. Item Database lovers aren't going to like it. But I like it.
best idea i've heard in a while.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.04.30 11:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zifrian
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Like the others have said, you make your own goals. This isn't WoW, if you want WoW, you can play WoW, no one is stopping you.
What goals does WoW have other than getting gear and gold?
Getting gold in WoW is an objective, since when?
You do know that gold in WoW is useless, right?
==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:00:00 -
[37]
I think that one of the problems with the industrial proffesion is the fact that factories are like vending machines, you just pop in some minerals and a BPC and it starts popping out whatever items...
BORING!
Starting a production should be an investment. You should build a factory to produce the stuff you need. The T2 production does this better, but T1 production is uninteresting and largely useless, except for Ammo production (See vending machine comment above).
I have previously proposed to change the system of T1 items and item drops completely.
Let it be more component based. You build components and combine these to build items, much like rigs. but you can fine tune them to build the named T1 items.
Rats drop items only rarely, but lots of components.
Industrialists must invest to make a factory to produce components or items. IE specialize their production, instead of just mass aquiring blueprints and building whatever is the flavour of the day.
Would make room for all sorts of small and bigtime industrialists to supply the market at different levels. And would make some bigger goals to work for.
You start out as a smalltime component constructor, supplying others with one type of component they need for their production, eventually you've made enough money to build factories to be your own supplier for your own Microwarpdrive supplying empire, etc.
==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Misanth
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Reialis
I don't really understand why you see ships as profession goals? There are plenty more game defining frontiers to conquer than just having x ship with x amount of cargo space filled with x amount of BPOs. As an established industrialist you have the financial power to really create something substantial within the world you play in.
Why own a Titan when you can own galaxies?
Exactly.
My character is starting to fill out the Amarr military ships, and I'm far from interested in sitting in a Titan. I'd rather max out the level 5 skills I lack or cross-train to get access to other races ships, that'd probably make me alot more viable.
..but in that example, there's the industrialists issue. My alt is a business/trader/entrepreneur, and for her it's different. I think personally SiJira is just whining, having 10bil and feeling a lack of goal? My traders goal is to make money. Having 10bil is just the step before 11bil. Having 100bil is just the step before 101bil. Who cares what the number is, the goal is the same.
The issue as I see it, is the industrialists, not the isk numbers, or ships you got access to. Industrialists can "max out" skillwise, traders can, a combat pilot can't. In that sense, the traders or industrialists etc will cross-train alot earlier than the combat pilots will.
My solution to that is to make my trader optimize trade/refinining/transport ships, then that account will be used for upgrading my cyno alts to be able to use covert-ops and recons properly. Next step is to get black ops on them as well.
Etc. Make your own goals.
If your goal is to get into a ship or to get x isk, you will complete this game, and you fail the very essence of EVE.. that you can't complete this game.
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Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar
Shiverau
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:10:00 -
[39]
i am not even an industrialist, yet i am about to undertake building a cap ship, just cos i can!
make goals, its fun!
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Ioci
Gallente
Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:24:00 -
[40]
A Titan isn't a one man band. Industrial empires aren't either. Moon mine, Ice mine, gas mine, R&D, refinery, BPO research, stock piles, on and on and on. There is so much content in this game not directly connected to combat it's impossible to tough on it all. |
Segge Bolled
Caldari
Dirty Sexy Pilots
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.30 13:44:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Segge Bolled on 30/04/2008 13:46:29
Originally by: SiJira
there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk
My immediate response would normally just be "Lies!" because I simply disagree, but to be fairer (and yet brutally honest) it simply sounds like to me that you just aren't trying very hard at all.
Originally by: SiJira
the only things that can be done are just the same things someone with a billion isk or less but at a macro level
Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed.
Originally by: SiJira
give us more logistics ships that affect pvp
Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships?
Originally by: SiJira
give us more types of stations
So, give us details - no, seriously. I'm (only) guessing you don't exactly mean more station models, or do you? What kind of role do you want them to fill in EVE if you don't?
Originally by: SiJira
give us modules that do the opposite of mobile warp disruptors and prevent anyone from warping in within a certain distance
Interesting idea, I think there is another forum for things like this? Maybe it wouldn't get as many views, I don't know. Maybe it'd find more fertile soil there all the same.
Originally by: SiJira
industrial goals that can be done outside of alliances but not in high sec empire
So you don't want to join an Alliance, but you want the same kind of benefits it can provide? As for "not in high sec", do you mean in 0.0 or low sec? Both? Easy. Form as large a corporation as you can and don't be part of or form an Alliance. You can still put up a POS, etc. Just don't expect the same incentives (whatever they actually are for you) for not having done the work to get them, would be my immediate advice.
Originally by: SiJira
and industrial goals that can be done completely in empire
Well here is one to research and try if you haven't already: build up a lucrative high-sec invention POS network. Then if you can find a buyer, sell it on and pour ISK into something different, perhaps even something not wholly industrial?
Originally by: SiJira
the pvp is improved when the biggest rewards are where the carebear has to stick their neck out on the line
No comment, other than I do quite enjoy getting so-called "phat lewts" from the smoking wreckages myself ... 
To be frank, it seems very much to me that you're simply yelling "GIVE ME MORE MEAT!" but declining to inform us as to whether you'd prefer the veal or the chicken dish, so we don't know what it is exactly you want. Hardly the smartest way to get served properly in a classy establishment like this, or so I'd have thought.
EDIT: Pale men can't hyperlink.
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Segge Bolled
Caldari
Dirty Sexy Pilots
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.30 13:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Segge Bolled on 30/04/2008 13:56:09
Now, as for something I'd very much like to do as an Industrialist if I ever had the simply huge amounts of ISK I'd likely require and no less the great deal of like minded support to realize it:
I'd like to do something a little similar to what ISS was doing, back in the day.
I would build Outposts for "everyone".
My own goal would be to research the whole deep 0.0 expanse of the EVE regions and try to arrange to liaise closely with whatever Alliances I find holding power in points of interest for me at the time, to engage in financing massive Outpost infrastructure expansions for both them and ultimately all EVE.
Whenever I find a spot I like, I'd offer the powers of the day my/our services, by which I/we would fund the bulk of the construction effort for them in order to produce the Outpost I'd/we'd like to see built there. Once I'd/we'd built it, I'd name it, announce it to the public as complete, then we'd hand it over to the new owners so they can defend it if they want to keep it and otherwise do whatever they like to it after I've packed off to the next Outpost construction effort.
My ultimate goal would simply be my (and clearly my close associates) becoming known for using our epic ISK piles to invest back into EVE itself in this possibly quite challenging manner. It'd be designed to be an epic ISK sink for us, not an ISK printer.
Ideally, I'd first have us build ourselves our own little H.Q. outpost in a nice little drone region constellation (I've always loved the look of the Caldari outpost myself) - and never expand out of the area - all the other outposts built would be for others to worry about and for all to (potentially) enjoy use of if they dare. It and the resources it provides us would be open to all for use with the caveat that should your alliance or even corporation be frequently causing trouble for the builder alliance it would drop your own alliance down the designated priorities list for upgrading, to the point someone would be paid to cause trouble for you in return - we do after all have insanely sized piles of ISK to do all this to begin with and are such dirty care bears we can't raise more than a sell order in our defense, 
The whole thing is completely crazy I guess and I've done very little fact finding (Uh, none at all actually - but I like it better this way) but why not dream a wild dream if you're going to dream at all? 
EDIT: We can't spell, either.
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Lazor Hag
Machiavellian Intuition
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Posted - 2008.04.30 14:20:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Lazor Hag on 30/04/2008 14:20:39
saying that 'there is no good long term goal for [any industrialist] that has over 10 billion isk' is just as ridiculous as saying 'There is no long term goal for any PvPer who has killed a titan' or 'there is no long term goal for any mission runner who has run every mission'.
On one level these are all true, there is no further that you can take that particular activity without repeating what you have already done, however, just because you have done everything you can do at that level it does not mean you have done everything you can do in the game. Eve is an MMO, the key part of that being multiplayer.
Once you have done everything you can do as an individual in any particular field (Industry, PvP, PvE etc) then you have two choices:
1) Move to a different field.
2) Move to a leadership position.
The leadership positions are surely the ultimate evolution of gameplay in Eve, at the highest level they combine PvP, Industry, Management and pretty much every other aspect of the game. If you are unwilling or unable to go there then that is your look out, be happy with what you are doing and accept your position; you have no reason to complain of a situation that is entirely of your own making.
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Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.04.30 14:45:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 30/04/2008 14:45:21
If you're imagination is beginning to flag then check the real world for inspiration.
Industrialist
---------------------------------------
Outface the depths of evil with clarity
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Landarian
Spaceways Provisioning Company
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Posted - 2008.04.30 14:55:00 -
[45]
Here's one I'd personally like to see ...
Non-sovereignty claiming, player run Outposts in LOW-SEC space. Why? To be able to offer Outpost services for a fee in areas that have no NPC outposts available. Docking, fitting, refining, repairs, medical, manufacturing, research - the whole nine yards, offered by players to players. With the ability to set standings that would deny docking rights but would also modify station services prices.
Outpost construction costs are huge but the potential for enticing small-medium corps to spread out from Empire space seems like it would be high. An industrialist corp could spend billions building these and make billions administering them or selling them to corps/alliances that have no desire to participate in 0.0 politics/BS but do want to spread out from Empire.
Granted I haven't thought through all the game mechanics of this but it would seem like something a wealthy industrialist could use as a goal.
L
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Rubra
J. S. Bach In memoriam
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Posted - 2008.04.30 15:12:00 -
[46]
Give industrialists the ability to do something with Outpost Construction 5, like construct Dyson Rings in space next to moons. Give it a minimum of five months of construction time and only let them be anchored in lowsec or nullspace. Oh, and they can be sieged and destroyed too.
That should satisfy them.
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.04.30 15:20:00 -
[47]
become a real good leader! now that's a goal if your losing interests? As in helping other member grown and use your isk in investment programs to help people grow etc. Thats what i will do when i get back on my feet after 5 months of non active :P
Trinity Corporate Services
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Spike 68
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.30 15:22:00 -
[48]
my suggestion would be capital ship construction or get more into pvp
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.04.30 15:42:00 -
[49]
You could work up cap ship production and delivery business. At the high end of that you could spend 100 bil setting up titan production before you have anything to show for it.
Or you could plant an outpost (or capture a station) and try to make a major trade/production hub out of it. There's huge potential for profit, but it's certainly not risk-free.
Obviously these are huge 0.0 operations and will most likely require a group effort, but that's how MMOs work. If you're looking for individual goals, those come to an end after 1 month in most MMOs.
However, if you really wanted to solo, you might could offer a pos refueling service to some alliance where you bounce around in a jump freighter full of pos fuels. Obviously you'd have to be careful how you develop your clients but that's just how eve is.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:29:00 -
[50]
Edited by: SiJira on 30/04/2008 17:29:35
Originally by: Misanth
..but in that example, there's the industrialists issue. My alt is a business/trader/entrepreneur, and for her it's different. I think personally SiJira is just whining, having 10bil and feeling a lack of goal? My traders goal is to make money. Having 10bil is just the step before 11bil. Having 100bil is just the step before 101bil. Who cares what the number is, the goal is the same.
thats the entire problem is that you do the same boring thing on a bigger level
its as if there were no more ships for pvp after cruisers why need bigger ships and alliance sovereignty when you can just have huge cruiser fights? we have moved past that and now a significant aspect of the game needs the same attention
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Segge Bolled
Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed.
Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships?
you make it sound like i only have 10 billion while if you read my post 10 billion is a very specific point and it is true what i have said about it
logistics ships that affect pvp so i believe this clearly rules out transport ships does it not? they can be anything as long as we get more of them
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Des Garcons
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Zifrian
What goals does WoW have other than getting gear and gold?
being seduced by a girl that is really a 12 yr old boy?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SiJira
please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best
Well, the only reason the economy exists to begin with is to provide us with combat ships, so you can't say the two things must be separate. Eve's economy is a war economy. The things we can produce are almost all war materials of some kind, and the little that isn't is stuff that helps production and transport of said war materials.
So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.04.30 18:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: SiJira
please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best
So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works.
oh really eve is a pvp game thank you for this discovery
no one is saying anything needs to be otherwise except the size of the goals
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.30 18:17:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Joe on 30/04/2008 18:18:10
edit = made it alittle nicer
Originally by: Joe
Atm i think the hardest goal to set is to operate a complete POS network chain in low sec that produces sometype of 'reaction'. Its quite challanging, and needs alot of capital. It is the Ultimae 'industrial goals that can be done completely in empire'
I noticed you replied to everyone except the people that actually give you what you ask for SiJira.
POS networks can be run on any scale depending on the time and capital you have spare. Many POS networks producing reactions are handled by single players, who i'm sure pride themselves on being true industralists.
Be apart of the MASSIVE production chain that is Manufacturing in eve, and stop complaining becuase you cant see posibilities.
Pe0w |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 18:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: SiJira
please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best
So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works.
oh really eve is a pvp game thank you for this discovery
no one is saying anything needs to be otherwise except the size of the goals
You said so.
And there are no "goals" in any field in Eve, at all, except what the individual player(s) decide he/she/they want to achieve for whatever reason.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.04.30 18:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Soporo
WTF, for people obver 10 billion?
And exactly what percentage of the player base might that be?
I can't see the Devs spending time to create content specifically targeted at this miniscule fraction of players. Not likely (but you never know), however I will agree that Indusrty in GENERAL needs some serious attention.
I would add that if I had 10 bil or more, I assure you I could come up with a viable long range, amusing plan. It would most likely involve lots of explosions, announcing a LowSec chain claim, and masses of Mercs to name just one idea.
Spoken like a true proletarian, 10 Billion ISK is absolutely nothing when it comes massive things you are talking about - so it means you have no idea of:
How Much ISK properly trained Merc Corporation costs per week...
How Much ISK a chain of towers in Low Sec takes to maintain...
How much turn-over you will have...
The keyword is being "amusing" I think, for about a week, then with your 10 Billion gone you will be back grinding belts in 0.0 or missions.
Long term goals for those who are rich are very important - something number of people with 10 Billion each can get behind, lets say 10-20 people with 10 Billion each and with some way of securing the invested ISK, and turning a modest profit.
People did not make 10 Billion or more by being stupid in this game, they have created the wealth by working the angles, well most of us anyway, it did not just drop in our laps.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:34:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hannobaal
You said so.
And there are no "goals" in any field in Eve, at all, except what the individual player(s) decide he/she/they want to achieve for whatever reason.
there is a goal for every type of activity and some of them are way too short to make a real profession
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Khellendra
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:56:00 -
[59]
Just to provide some perspective.
I'm an industrialist looking for ways to do business. I have . . . umm had 1.4b in liquid isk (i just purchased a carrier). I looked into expanding my business enterprise and this is what I found.
A) If I wanted to get involved in capital production from start to finish.
- initial cost of capital would be almost 30 billion
B) If I wanted to build a station outpost
- initial cost of capital would be almost 30 billion
C) If i wanted to purchase a Raven BPO, research it, and build ravens
- The cost is 1.3b or so of the BPO and it would literally take me hundreds of ravens just to break even on the profit.
D) If i wanted to build a PoS in 0.0 and get some reactions out of it.
- The cost would range between 400-1billion start up and that's including fuel costs
The point i'm trying to make is that, even if I had 10 billion isk in liquid cash, it wouldn't be that helpful. It's like being a millionare in the Real World, you have a ton of money, but when you start looking at your options, millions of dollars is a very very small amount of money. LIkewise, 10 billion is very small for an industrialist.
For a combat pilot, you're in heaven :)
My suggestion is to find a niche that makes you happy and then inhabit it. If the niche gives you 100b then that's great if it gets you no money but makes you happy even better.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.01 20:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: SiJira on 01/05/2008 20:22:06
Originally by: Khellendra
A
B
C
D
why do capital production start to finish? thats like doing several different professions at once
outpost has more to do with alliance warfare than any sort of industrial goal
the raven bpo didnt cost you a lot and you will be able to use the isk you get from building a couple to build the next few
again most of the big goals are just things you can do with a lot less isk but at a larger level
buying t2 bpos is about the only goal that can be done with a lot of isk and there is not much isk sink in that
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Kvirie
Caldari
Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.05.01 22:51:00 -
[61]
I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure.
How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z".
Anyone want to join me?
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.05.01 23:04:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kvirie
I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure.
How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z".
Anyone want to join me?
Doomed to failure... you know why? Because Market Hubs form primarily based on Geographical basis. Yulai was a market Hub for years and years, until CCP nerfed the Highways, and made new ones - thus creating Jita.
Basically what you are doing is admirable, but in my honest opinion a true market hub could only exist if the socio-geographic conditions are met - which they can not be created artificially by stuffing bunch of products in one place, you need a thoroughfare as well - look at Roman Empire, all major markets only existed by about four major highways that Empire had, that was it.
Anyway, despite my reservations, drop me a line with your plan, maybe there are merits which you are readily apparent from a 20 line post. I might think of some additions to your market, if it is possible they would benefit me in the process, but, however, I am very skeptical about "creating hubs" artificially.
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David Flavius
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.01 23:18:00 -
[63]
how about having services that are allowed publicly on POS, charge for docking repairs and selling and buying supplies (taxes basically) this would mean perhaps that alliances that own regions would allow non alliance people into their systems, also if you could charge for charters or something in corp owned space so has that people would HAVE to pay to place a station their and then their profits get taxed because their there that would also help.
o >< i got of subject.
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Kvirie
Caldari
Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.05.01 23:37:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Kvirie on 01/05/2008 23:39:05
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Basically what you are doing is admirable, but in my honest opinion a true market hub could only exist if the socio-geographic conditions are met - which they can not be created artificially by stuffing bunch of products in one place, you need a thoroughfare as well - look at Roman Empire, all major markets only existed by about four major highways that Empire had, that was it.
I am aware of the geographical location issue, the question to that answer lies with observing the map and major routes, finding where on those routes there are locations which present opportunity. Take the State for instance. It has Jita yes, but if someone is coming from one of the busier lowsec/0.0 area to pickup stuff and leave, finding that there's a station 5-10 jumps sooner with items, perhaps not the volume, but one able to allow them to fit their ship, be it with T1, name, or T2, they will stop sooner at that spot.
Admittedly I am still observing the routes and looking to see where such locations still exit to be put to use at the most efficient level. Once it is established, from there it is a matter of acquiring the commodities needed, as well as the interest by merchants and customers to make use of the avenue, rather than navigating themselves to Wal-Jita.
Jita has a good location, due to the horrific bottleneck in the State, but even if the routes were to change and it became easy to bypass Jita, people would still shop there because of the ever-growing presence of goods.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.02 18:57:00 -
[65]
thats a good idea kvirie but can you place advertisements and dominate the market in any way except spam? |
Kvirie
Caldari
Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.05.02 21:17:00 -
[66]
To dominate the market would require undercutting others and possibly even using force to keep strong competitors at bay or in check. My goal does not simply have me as the master of the hub in any way, but that would be nice since more ISK is always good for expanding ones ventures. Building the hub itself is my goal. It would be like when Vegas was created, where fame and fortune is good, but being able to look back and say "That is what we built, from nothing" is something that some may not be able to measure in ISK alone.
Advertising can be done in some fashion. In game at different locations, perhaps by using corp adverts (that would be annoying to some I will admit), in the forums, however if there would be one great means to advertise the hub, this would be it. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.03 18:05:00 -
[67]
Originally by: David Flavius
how about having services that are allowed publicly on POS, charge for docking repairs and selling and buying supplies (taxes basically) this would mean perhaps that alliances that own regions would allow non alliance people into their systems, also if you could charge for charters or something in corp owned space so has that people would HAVE to pay to place a station their and then their profits get taxed because their there that would also help.
o >< i got of subject.
that might get too many whines from people who want everyone forced into 0.0 |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:13:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kvirie
To dominate the market would require undercutting others and possibly even using force to keep strong competitors at bay or in check. My goal does not simply have me as the master of the hub in any way, but that would be nice since more ISK is always good for expanding ones ventures. Building the hub itself is my goal.
this is just one goal
each style of play needs a goal |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pwnage Distribution Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.06 23:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
impossible to warp scramble,
lol
I found strange that you and other people find this so incredible.
The HIC were introduced exactly to block ships that can't be warp scrambled. So a ship that can't be blocked by a common module that can be fitted in any ship but require a specialized unit (ship and module combo) isn't so outlandish. Au conraire it make EVe more interesting and rewards people that know to prepare istead of selecting the easy solution.
Adding a transport ship that can be blocked only by HICs would require some careful thought about balance but isn't a bad idea.
He didn't say anything about interdictors being able to stop it, and from the context (expecially the part right after what I quoted) it seems it is clearly a "make me invulnerable" type of request.
How the hell did you get from me saying they shouldn't be able to be warp scrambled to me supposedly they they can't be dictored or bubbled?
If that was true they would be impossible to kill, what would be the point in that? Geez.
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Zurrar
Gallente
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.05.06 23:22:00 -
[70]
there are many things you can do.
1. donate to a poor pilot ( me :( )
2. buy a rorq, pay some ppl to protect you as you mine and use it to compress ore (me)
3. join an alliance and buy them a rorq.
4. help me on my quest to be a dread pilot <3
Originally by: Darla Dawson
Quit, and go play wow
I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:01:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Zurrar
there are many things you can do.
1. donate to a poor pilot ( me :( )
2. buy a rorq, pay some ppl to protect you as you mine and use it to compress ore (me)
3. join an alliance and buy them a rorq.
4. help me on my quest to be a dread pilot <3
none of these thing are a long term goal
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.07 20:42:00 -
[72]
I actually think creating a new player-driven commercial or industrial center would be a nice goal to consider. And if you want to make a hub in 0.0, jump bridges can go a long way to cutting travel times. Of course, just as in real life, to own space you need to be able to defend it or pay someone to defend it. The other option is don't own space, but offer a service to those who do. No commitment to a specific alliance, no responsibility over defending territory, while still providing an outlet for industrial work. That's just a couple minutes of brainstorming from me.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Khatred
ReallyPissedOff
Guinea Pigs
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Posted - 2008.05.07 20:51:00 -
[73]
I am not out of goals, I am out of time !
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Orb Lati
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.07 22:01:00 -
[74]
Well if you want a long term "hard" goal how about utilizing your capital and hiring a Merc combat forces to remove low sec moon mining POS's to replace the with your own.
I would say setting up low sec moon mining operations of top end resources by yourself through out-sourcing of military labour under retainers and contractual agreements would be a good endgame objective for a multi billionaire industrialists.
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.07 22:59:00 -
[75]
I just want high-sec stations. I would buy one next to Jita 4.4 and take over all the trade! 
Nah seriously, something big and expensive, ultimate goal for industrialists is missing. For me it used to be T2 BPOs. Having nice collection with some of the luxury ones was nice goal and very long one too. But invention took a lot of glaze from T2 BPOs, so I am just making more ISK for the sake of making ISK without knowing what to spend them for.
It is still fun (for me) and I like it, but there always should be something I am working for and this something is missing. People often say 0.0, but thanks no, I don't want to be industrial slave of some alliance. I don't even want titans, cos they have zero use for highsec citizen like me. 
I think that some kind of high-sec player owned structures (besides POS) would be great addition to the game. It would open new entire market - players competing with each other by providing better/cheaper station services... oh well I can keep dreaming.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:09:00 -
[76]
Not getting into my usual rantish arguments (and draw out Lord Fitz to lock horns again with me ), but T2 BPOs don't count as part of Industry anymore IMO.
Their current pricing makes no sense in terms of manufacturing for profit, even their utility value is questionable since, if you want to be wasteful with ISK and buy a BPO "so you can manufacture for wars in 0.0",,, invention will outstrip that BPO's manufacturing capability and isk-efficiency long before a T2 BPO gets it's utility value back.
T2 BPOs are now nothing more than collectors items, which is a pretty sad state of affairs IMO. I don't blame invention though.
Personally I still like the idea of a low maintenance, minimal facility home you can deploy in low/0.0
For a hefty fee to the faction (in the order of a billion, maybe more a month) hi-sec outposts would be an idea too, take the strain off activities like ME research. If you don't pay the bills, Faction Police arrive and unanchor your station, jetting all peoples belongings in it into cargo cans in space. Brain fart, full of holes, but it's there. However it would be implemented, the maintenance cost in terms of isk needs to balance out with the isk-costs associated with protecting a low/0.0 sec variant.
Improve Market Competition! |
Schalac
Caldari
Brotherhood of Wolves
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:19:00 -
[77]
I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:41:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Schalac
I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me.
Uh, is that even seeded? Sure it's in the Databases, but I don't actually think it's a skill you can "use" yet...
Improve Market Competition! |
Schalac
Caldari
Brotherhood of Wolves
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Posted - 2008.05.08 01:08:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Originally by: Schalac
I was just checking my science skills and noticed I can train "Duplicating". From the description it sounds pretty cool and will definitely get it to 5 on my indy alt if it is as cool as it sounds. Really though getting all science and industry skills to 5 seems like a pretty long term goal to me.
Uh, is that even seeded? Sure it's in the Databases, but I don't actually think it's a skill you can "use" yet...
On my skill list it says that I can learn it. Not on market or any LP stores that I roam through but when I am able to find the book I will be training it and playing around with it.
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Segge Bolled
Caldari
Dirty Sexy Pilots
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.05.08 01:54:00 -
[80]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Segge Bolled
Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed.
Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships?
you make it sound like i only have 10 billion while if you read my post 10 billion is a very specific point and it is true what i have said about it
No, I make it sound like your quoted amount of 10 billion isn't much - because I don't think it is. I did say "quote", I didn't say "wallet". I'm not commenting on your wallet amount, whatever it is, I'm being critical of your choice of amount presented by you as an example. It seems very low-end.
Originally by: SiJira
[logistics ships that affect pvp so i believe this clearly rules out transport ships does it not? they can be anything as long as we get more of them
Actually, they're also quite useful outside of PvP. As with most things in EVE, it doesn't just matter what you've got, it also matters how smartly you apply it.
As for the rest of your response, it looks like you're still demanding "MOAR!" but aren't actually saying what the "MOAR!" should actually be, with any useful detail.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.08 01:57:00 -
[81]
I think that's the key. They want a higher goal to strive for, but they don't know what it is, which is why they're asking for one. It's like the rich billionaire who can buy anything and everything, and starts to wonder what to do next. In fact, that's exactly what this situation is.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.05.08 02:01:00 -
[82]
Quote:
On my skill list it says that I can learn it. Not on market or any LP stores that I roam through but when I am able to find the book I will be training it and playing around with it.
Lol. Good way to confuse people with that UI.
You probably can train it but yeah, you ever seen a "Duplicate" function when you right-click an item? I'm 99% sure that you'll just be buying another "collectors item",, at least, until it's implemented.
Improve Market Competition! |
Jayne Rose
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Posted - 2008.05.08 03:52:00 -
[83]
I admit that I'm posting with an alt here, but I'm an industrialist in EvE. my main is coming up on 5 years in eve in a few days and I'm finding a lack of goals myself. For the record, I've ran an IPO, I've done t1 production. I've done t2 production. I've done invention. I've run moon mining chains. I've built an outpost (100% of my own isk, i gathered everything for the egg etc.. all done by me). Now I'm building a titan.
What do i do next? I find myself agreeing with the op. There really needs to be more for industrialists to do. Something that isn't just a few clicks of the manufacturing interface and then a month long wait (ie t2 caps and super cap ships). We need something else. I've been holding out personally for the prospect of shops in ambulation but who knows when that will ever be.
For the record industrialist != carebear. Carebears don't take risks I've taken plenty.
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ghosttr
Amarr
Explora Empire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.08 04:18:00 -
[84]
This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today.
My Blog |
Veldya
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Posted - 2008.05.08 04:42:00 -
[85]
I think for all long-term goals you need to look at the political element, once you reach a certain point with any profession path there is always a limited degree of how far you can progress without getting involved in the politics of EVE.
If you are a militant then part of the politics is to form or be part of an alliance which takes the military aspect to the next level and that is to acquire power via domination of 0.0 space.
From my perspective, my ultimate long-term goals is to form a corporation of "ultra" industrialists which has high standings with all major alliances which can supply bulk military goods, can mass produce capitals in large quantities in relatively short periods of time and can provide them to major alliances for significant discounts if the corp has mining rights in various systems within those major alliances.
I think having that kind of symbiotic relationship with major alliances would be my ultimate goal. I think getting an industrial corp to be that influential without being directly involved in conflicts would be the ultimate long-term goal.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.08 18:17:00 -
[86]
Originally by: ghosttr
This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today.
i like that idea
the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database 
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Alora Venoda
GalTech
Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.05.08 18:54:00 -
[87]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: ghosttr
This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today.
i like that idea
the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database
don't forget the balance issues created when someone "develops" the next solopwnmobile super NanoHAC...
It would be fun though. But ships are already very customizable with different modules and rigs... all that is left is base stats, bonuses, and fittings slots.
Maybe if there was a "modification process" that could tweak the base stats of a particular ship within some limits. And maybe some kind of consumable "customization kit" could be "developed" and then manufactured and sold.
Imagine modding your Raven to be an armor tanking hauler... hmmm.. lag/data issues aside, such customization would probably make pvp much more confusing than it already is...
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
ghosttr
Amarr
Explora Empire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:41:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: ghosttr
This is an idea that might be worth looking into. The idea is to be able to make your own custom ships. But have the research be manual, and require building prototypes, and real in-game testing. Rather than the automated 'research' we have today.
i like that idea
the typical response to that is that itll be too much work and clog up the database
don't forget the balance issues created when someone "develops" the next solopwnmobile super NanoHAC...
It would be fun though. But ships are already very customizable with different modules and rigs... all that is left is base stats, bonuses, and fittings slots.
Maybe if there was a "modification process" that could tweak the base stats of a particular ship within some limits. And maybe some kind of consumable "customization kit" could be "developed" and then manufactured and sold.
Imagine modding your Raven to be an armor tanking hauler... hmmm.. lag/data issues aside, such customization would probably make pvp much more confusing than it already is...
Actually the way i have things outlined seems to be wuite sufficient in limiting the amount of modification to prevent people form taking things to the extreme. That is if you read my post in the linked thread -.-.
I would like something besides cookie-cutter ships, with cookie cutter setups. I want to be able to produce something unique, and that is probably the best thing you can hope for as a long term industrialist.
My Blog |
ThaDollaGenerale
Endless Destruction
Total Eclipse Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.09 04:34:00 -
[89]
Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO!
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.09 17:02:00 -
[90]
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale
Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO!
i just bought 300 billion units now what?
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.05.09 17:14:00 -
[91]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale
Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO!
i just bought 300 billion units now what?
Sell it for profit somewhere.
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I should really get a sig. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.09 17:27:00 -
[92]
Edited by: SiJira on 09/05/2008 17:27:18
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
Sell it for profit somewhere.
ok just made 0.01 isk profit per unit now what
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Da'iel Zehn
Suune Core Operations
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Posted - 2008.05.09 19:39:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Da''iel Zehn on 09/05/2008 19:44:00
I agree with the OP completely. I'm bored with Eve. I could spend a million hours buidling big stupid Titans, but I'd much rather be doing something else.
High Sec needs much more to do, and more opportunities need to be added to the game. Everything centers around war, and that isn't any fun. I've done everything you can do so far.
I can't even really start my Evil Frosty Liquor business. Sure I put it on my sig, character, name ships after it, but I don't have a real way to make any ISK with it. <sighs>
I probably won't renew my subscription when it comes to an end. 2.5 years in Eve... and its just boring. Even PvP is boring now. I've done it all.
PvP example:
Went out recently in my Drake. Couldn't get a fight to save my life. I wanted a 1v1, and everyone was a frackin' coward. All you pirate/PvPers are all big and tough as a group, but when it comes down to a fair 1v1 its nothing but a bunch of yellow belly smack talkers. I'll say it again, "Cowards!"
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DZ's website
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:27:00 -
[94]
so the only arguments against this are that you can make your own goals
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:29:00 -
[95]
There's still outpost upgardes (sorry if it has been mentionned already), but they cost 67bil plus the cost of outpost and POS to run it and men and materials to defend it
If you want to fund one for us ... 
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:50:00 -
[96]
As for the market hubs idea, I think a few have toyed in CVA and provi with the idea of a freeport open to all (including reds). Trouble is a hub like that depends on security to work, so hostiles would just camp the place out or CVA or whoever would be forced to mount round the clock security, which is impractical
Ofc. if it worked, it'd be interesting to see if other 0.0 alliances see it as something they don't want to attack for fear of losing access to it and the value of having a trade hub not all the way 25 odd jumps out in Jita, or whether they'd see it as a threat from enemies being able to just hide in it / use it for cover and want to thus disrupt their lines in the theory they can survive fine on their own
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:06:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
As for the market hubs idea, I think a few have toyed in CVA and provi with the idea of a freeport open to all (including reds). Trouble is a hub like that depends on security to work, so hostiles would just camp the place out or CVA or whoever would be forced to mount round the clock security, which is impractical
Ofc. if it worked, it'd be interesting to see if other 0.0 alliances see it as something they don't want to attack for fear of losing access to it and the value of having a trade hub not all the way 25 odd jumps out in Jita, or whether they'd see it as a threat from enemies being able to just hide in it / use it for cover and want to thus disrupt their lines in the theory they can survive fine on their own
it would definitely die as soon as those wanting to kill it had it surrounded
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:14:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kvirie
I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure.
How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z".
Anyone want to join me?
It has been done before, there's little that hasn't already been tried. The NAGA corporation had a shop that sold cheap stuff T1, named, faction and T2 all at great prices. It was a great idea, not sure what happened to it but it's gone now.
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Freighters need a tank |
CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.05.11 18:04:00 -
[99]
well you could try something that no one else have done succesfully and which is a long term accomplishment.
you could try to generate a "safe" space though lowsec and into 0.0.
so that you create your own "concord" taking in donations by the people thinking your doing a good job etc.
so instead of hunting, destroying and thinking only about yourself, then trying to help by doing something that would matter.
what could you do of meaning full things irl if you had 100million dollers? not much really but if you wanted you could form together with others and maybe do something that mattered..
up to you.
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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 18:19:00 -
[100]
A lot of these things sound suspiciously like ISS and Big Blue, both of which ultimately failed.
The trouble is you need a large number of highly skilled, well funded and motivated players to make these things come true.
What a lot of industrials spend their billions on is their alliance and pvp alts to make that come true
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 18:27:00 -
[101]
Now since I've started rambling, I'll continue :P
Here is an idea I had to give industrialists more to do in 0.0 as well as solve some (though not all) of the problems around POS warfare: linky
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.11 21:17:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
Or to put it another way, a realistic industry sim MMO would be another game, not Eve. So don't expect anything
i like your general ideas but with ambulation the possibilities become endless
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.12 19:22:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
well you could try something that no one else have done succesfully and which is a long term accomplishment.
you could try to generate a "safe" space though lowsec and into 0.0.
please read the op again
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
KULT Production
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.13 02:02:00 -
[104]
Let's take a battleship. Now take a moment and think of the amount of skills that influence it's combat performance. Now, you don't really like battleships, so you specialise in a different class of ships. Take another moment and think of all the skills you need to master to get this ship right.
If production is your profession... Industry 5 (rank 1), Production Efficiency 5 (rank 3) and Cybernetics 5 (rank 3) for a 4% production time implant. That's it. That's about how good you're ever going to get at building stuff. Then Advanced Mass Production 5 (rank 8) and that's it how much you are ever going to produce.
At that point, the only thing left is hoarding ISK to be able to pay the entry fee to another market, for example battleship, capital or tech 2 production. Invention lowered the entry fee to tech 2 production significatly and the entry fee to invention (skills + interfaces) took a nose dive too, but you still need a good ISK backing so you can go mass production and ride out the streaks.
There is NO possibility to differentiate yourself from another producer. You skill to unlock produceables, and then, that's it. No specialisation, no further improvement.
At some point (industry 5, prod eff 5, frig/cruiser construction 5, bs construction 4, cap constr 4, outpost constr 1, t2 science skills 4) you can build 99.9% of what is ever going to matter to you. Maybe out of desperation you'll skill the cosmos skills too.
By then simply hope you have enough ISK so you can diversify your product palette enough to keep your high skilled character utilized at full capacity with high-skill products and either turn into a trader to keep your material supply up, hire a trader to keep your material supply up, or start training alts that produce lower skill materials (t2 components etc). You'll reach a point where your expansion will depend on alts. Getting together with another industrial works for some time, but he'll either run out of things to skill very soon, or he'll want to build high-skill items too, at which point you need another lower-skill producer to keep you supplied - or alts.
Running 20 recon invention jobs at a pos takes 2 days 2 hours (2 batches of 10). Let's say you use the max-run decryptor and have fairly good skills, so you'll get 4 successful runs or 36 recons. Producing them keeps 4 of your 10 or 11 factory slots working for 18 days each. Producing the 75168 need t2 components takes roughly 100 days on a single production slot. But if you have bought and researched multiple sets of component bpos and enough slots to run small batches in parallel.... you start playing excel.
"During the last XYZ weeks I made ABC billion ISK more than you" is your endgame. You can join a corp / alliance and fund their pvp gameplay and/or keep grinding isk onto your wallet.
Maybe you buy and build them an outpost and a titan, but at that point, you've really done everything you could ever do as a producer.
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[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
CriticalHurt
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Posted - 2008.05.13 02:29:00 -
[105]
capital mining ship too
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Digital Solaris
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.13 03:30:00 -
[106]
You want long term goal as a carebear? Try the "competition with other players" goal?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:41:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Digital Solaris
You want long term goal as a carebear? Try the "competition with other players" goal?
read the op
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Dramund
Amarr
Atonement Arms
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:13:00 -
[108]
Clever rich people can have a lot of fun with contracts and under-the-table transactions in the interest of chaos.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.13 18:47:00 -
[109]
survival is a long term goal gb2wow rololol
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Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.05.13 18:57:00 -
[110]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
truth
Branding and customization clearly provide difficult technical challenges that must be overcome.
So as soon as you kids are done playing with your toy guns, get on it.
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2008.05.14 04:02:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Jeran Tek
Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything.
This post is constructed of win. If you don't have things to get done in EVE, then you haven't really been playing.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:02:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dramund
Clever rich people can have a lot of fun with contracts and under-the-table transactions in the interest of chaos.
and cry under the table for lack of content
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:37:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Grendelsbane
Originally by: Jeran Tek
Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything.
This post is constructed of win. If you don't have things to get done in EVE, then you haven't really been playing.
theres things to do on a large scale of the things youve done
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.16 18:17:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Alz Shado
Branding and customization clearly provide difficult technical challenges that must be overcome.
signed
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Arline Kley
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.20 15:29:00 -
[115]
Originally by: SiJira
give us more types of stations
Having different types of stations would be good. Atm you can get control towers for each of the 4 races (others if your damned lucky) relativly easily.
Now how about differing types e.g. a control tower that gives a say 5% bonus to BP research on certain BPs (so you can have a POS designed solely in the creation of Cruisers or Weapons say) or one that increases the amount of minerals given from a moon mining operation.
Originally by: SiJira
give us more logistics ships that affect pvp
Logistic ships are very limited in what they can do anyway (Armour for Amarr and Gallente, Shield for Caldari and Minmatar), but having expanded roles on these would be useful. For example:
Having a Oneiros being able to increase the dmg output of the hybrid guns by increasing the magnetic fields based in the weapons to make them stronger (a 1.75% range increase say)
I have to say i've never held more than 150 million isk, but then again i dont really want to be hording 10 billion isk, as then i'll kinda feel guilty (all this money, not really arsed to do anything with it)
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.20 17:47:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Arline Kley
Having different types of stations would be good. Atm you can get control towers for each of the 4 races (others if your damned lucky) relativly easily.
Now how about differing types e.g. a control tower that gives a say 5% bonus to BP research on certain BPs (so you can have a POS designed solely in the creation of Cruisers or Weapons say) or one that increases the amount of minerals given from a moon mining operation.
Logistic ships are very limited in what they can do anyway (Armour for Amarr and Gallente, Shield for Caldari and Minmatar), but having expanded roles on these would be useful. For example:
Having a Oneiros being able to increase the dmg output of the hybrid guns by increasing the magnetic fields based in the weapons to make them stronger (a 1.75% range increase say)
I have to say i've never held more than 150 million isk, but then again i dont really want to be hording 10 billion isk, as then i'll kinda feel guilty (all this money, not really arsed to do anything with it)
these are good ideas and might be a good way to stabilize moon material prices
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.20 18:49:00 -
[117]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
There is NO possibility to differentiate yourself from another producer. You skill to unlock produceables, and then, that's it. No specialisation, no further improvement.
The problem is that the way Eve is designed inherantly prevents this. The only way around it is to let players create new entries in the item's database and that has a lot of problems relating to it
The priorities of the devs are elsewhere (pvp) and the changes to the game so fundamental to really properly implement it, that it really belongs in a different game altogether
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.05.20 19:56:00 -
[118]
The endgame for any manufacturer is to build that phallus they call a Titan. Because this goal requires 0.0, CCP can make this a goal of every industrialist by allowing their construction in stations. Perhaps a station manufacturing time penalty of 50% or something like that
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