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give the industralists some long term goals

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Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:14:00 - [91] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Mine 1 billion units of trit. GO! i just bought 300 billion units now what? Sell it for profit somewhere. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:27:00 - [92] Edited by: SiJira on 09/05/2008 17:27:18 Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Sell it for profit somewhere. ok just made 0.01 isk profit per unit now what Trashed sig, Shark was here
Da'iel Zehn Suune Core Operations	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:39:00 - [93] Edited by: Da''iel Zehn on 09/05/2008 19:44:00 I agree with the OP completely. I'm bored with Eve. I could spend a million hours buidling big stupid Titans, but I'd much rather be doing something else. High Sec needs much more to do, and more opportunities need to be added to the game. Everything centers around war, and that isn't any fun. I've done everything you can do so far. I can't even really start my Evil Frosty Liquor business. Sure I put it on my sig, character, name ships after it, but I don't have a real way to make any ISK with it. <sighs> I probably won't renew my subscription when it comes to an end. 2.5 years in Eve... and its just boring. Even PvP is boring now. I've done it all. PvP example: Went out recently in my Drake. Couldn't get a fight to save my life. I wanted a 1v1, and everyone was a frackin' coward. All you pirate/PvPers are all big and tough as a group, but when it comes down to a fair 1v1 its nothing but a bunch of yellow belly smack talkers. I'll say it again, "Cowards!" -- DZ's website
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.10 20:27:00 - [94] so the only arguments against this are that you can make your own goals Trashed sig, Shark was here
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 20:29:00 - [95] There's still outpost upgardes (sorry if it has been mentionned already), but they cost 67bil plus the cost of outpost and POS to run it and men and materials to defend it If you want to fund one for us ...
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 20:50:00 - [96] As for the market hubs idea, I think a few have toyed in CVA and provi with the idea of a freeport open to all (including reds). Trouble is a hub like that depends on security to work, so hostiles would just camp the place out or CVA or whoever would be forced to mount round the clock security, which is impractical Ofc. if it worked, it'd be interesting to see if other 0.0 alliances see it as something they don't want to attack for fear of losing access to it and the value of having a trade hub not all the way 25 odd jumps out in Jita, or whether they'd see it as a threat from enemies being able to just hide in it / use it for cover and want to thus disrupt their lines in the theory they can survive fine on their own
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:06:00 - [97] Originally by: Spoon Thumb As for the market hubs idea, I think a few have toyed in CVA and provi with the idea of a freeport open to all (including reds). Trouble is a hub like that depends on security to work, so hostiles would just camp the place out or CVA or whoever would be forced to mount round the clock security, which is impractical Ofc. if it worked, it'd be interesting to see if other 0.0 alliances see it as something they don't want to attack for fear of losing access to it and the value of having a trade hub not all the way 25 odd jumps out in Jita, or whether they'd see it as a threat from enemies being able to just hide in it / use it for cover and want to thus disrupt their lines in the theory they can survive fine on their own it would definitely die as soon as those wanting to kill it had it surrounded Trashed sig, Shark was here
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:14:00 - [98] Originally by: Kvirie I have a long term industrial goal, and I doubt many people have done it, or tried to. Anyone can produce or mine, major corps can produce caps and t2 sure. How about building a market hub? How many of you have flown a dozen jumps or so to get even basic fittings? My long term goal is to build up a market hub in a place where none exists, but could. It doesn't have to be Jita, Rens, Ours, or anything like that, but even just something where players see it and think "well damn, I can grab some cheap fittings for my ship at X instead of 10-15 jumps away in Hub Z". Anyone want to join me? It has been done before, there's little that hasn't already been tried. The NAGA corporation had a shop that sold cheap stuff T1, named, faction and T2 all at great prices. It was a great idea, not sure what happened to it but it's gone now. -- Freighters need a tank
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:04:00 - [99] well you could try something that no one else have done succesfully and which is a long term accomplishment. you could try to generate a "safe" space though lowsec and into 0.0. so that you create your own "concord" taking in donations by the people thinking your doing a good job etc. so instead of hunting, destroying and thinking only about yourself, then trying to help by doing something that would matter. what could you do of meaning full things irl if you had 100million dollers? not much really but if you wanted you could form together with others and maybe do something that mattered.. up to you. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:19:00 - [100] A lot of these things sound suspiciously like ISS and Big Blue, both of which ultimately failed. The trouble is you need a large number of highly skilled, well funded and motivated players to make these things come true. What a lot of industrials spend their billions on is their alliance and pvp alts to make that come true

Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:27:00 - [101] Now since I've started rambling, I'll continue :P Here is an idea I had to give industrialists more to do in 0.0 as well as solve some (though not all) of the problems around POS warfare: linky
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.11 21:17:00 - [102] Originally by: Spoon Thumb Or to put it another way, a realistic industry sim MMO would be another game, not Eve. So don't expect anything i like your general ideas but with ambulation the possibilities become endless Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.12 19:22:00 - [103] Originally by: CrestoftheStars well you could try something that no one else have done succesfully and which is a long term accomplishment. you could try to generate a "safe" space though lowsec and into 0.0. please read the op again Trashed sig, Shark was here
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.05.13 02:02:00 - [104] Let's take a battleship. Now take a moment and think of the amount of skills that influence it's combat performance. Now, you don't really like battleships, so you specialise in a different class of ships. Take another moment and think of all the skills you need to master to get this ship right. If production is your profession... Industry 5 (rank 1), Production Efficiency 5 (rank 3) and Cybernetics 5 (rank 3) for a 4% production time implant. That's it. That's about how good you're ever going to get at building stuff. Then Advanced Mass Production 5 (rank 8) and that's it how much you are ever going to produce. At that point, the only thing left is hoarding ISK to be able to pay the entry fee to another market, for example battleship, capital or tech 2 production. Invention lowered the entry fee to tech 2 production significatly and the entry fee to invention (skills + interfaces) took a nose dive too, but you still need a good ISK backing so you can go mass production and ride out the streaks. There is NO possibility to differentiate yourself from another producer. You skill to unlock produceables, and then, that's it. No specialisation, no further improvement. At some point (industry 5, prod eff 5, frig/cruiser construction 5, bs construction 4, cap constr 4, outpost constr 1, t2 science skills 4) you can build 99.9% of what is ever going to matter to you. Maybe out of desperation you'll skill the cosmos skills too. By then simply hope you have enough ISK so you can diversify your product palette enough to keep your high skilled character utilized at full capacity with high-skill products and either turn into a trader to keep your material supply up, hire a trader to keep your material supply up, or start training alts that produce lower skill materials (t2 components etc). You'll reach a point where your expansion will depend on alts. Getting together with another industrial works for some time, but he'll either run out of things to skill very soon, or he'll want to build high-skill items too, at which point you need another lower-skill producer to keep you supplied - or alts. Running 20 recon invention jobs at a pos takes 2 days 2 hours (2 batches of 10). Let's say you use the max-run decryptor and have fairly good skills, so you'll get 4 successful runs or 36 recons. Producing them keeps 4 of your 10 or 11 factory slots working for 18 days each. Producing the 75168 need t2 components takes roughly 100 days on a single production slot. But if you have bought and researched multiple sets of component bpos and enough slots to run small batches in parallel.... you start playing excel. "During the last XYZ weeks I made ABC billion ISK more than you" is your endgame. You can join a corp / alliance and fund their pvp gameplay and/or keep grinding isk onto your wallet. Maybe you buy and build them an outpost and a titan, but at that point, you've really done everything you could ever do as a producer. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
CriticalHurt	Posted - 2008.05.13 02:29:00 - [105] capital mining ship too
Digital Solaris Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.13 03:30:00 - [106] You want long term goal as a carebear? Try the "competition with other players" goal?
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:41:00 - [107] Originally by: Digital Solaris You want long term goal as a carebear? Try the "competition with other players" goal? read the op Trashed sig, Shark was here
Dramund Amarr Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.05.13 16:13:00 - [108] Clever rich people can have a lot of fun with contracts and under-the-table transactions in the interest of chaos.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.13 18:47:00 - [109] survival is a long term goal gb2wow rololol ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.05.13 18:57:00 - [110] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh truth Branding and customization clearly provide difficult technical challenges that must be overcome. So as soon as you kids are done playing with your toy guns, get on it. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand

Grendelsbane	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:02:00 - [111] Originally by: Jeran Tek Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything. This post is constructed of win. If you don't have things to get done in EVE, then you haven't really been playing.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.14 18:02:00 - [112] Originally by: Dramund Clever rich people can have a lot of fun with contracts and under-the-table transactions in the interest of chaos. and cry under the table for lack of content Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:37:00 - [113] Originally by: Grendelsbane Originally by: Jeran Tek Make your own goals. ISK & Conquest isn't everything. This post is constructed of win. If you don't have things to get done in EVE, then you haven't really been playing. theres things to do on a large scale of the things youve done Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.16 18:17:00 - [114] Originally by: Alz Shado Branding and customization clearly provide difficult technical challenges that must be overcome. signed Trashed sig, Shark was here
Arline Kley Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.20 15:29:00 - [115] Originally by: SiJira give us more types of stations Having different types of stations would be good. Atm you can get control towers for each of the 4 races (others if your damned lucky) relativly easily. Now how about differing types e.g. a control tower that gives a say 5% bonus to BP research on certain BPs (so you can have a POS designed solely in the creation of Cruisers or Weapons say) or one that increases the amount of minerals given from a moon mining operation. Originally by: SiJira give us more logistics ships that affect pvp Logistic ships are very limited in what they can do anyway (Armour for Amarr and Gallente, Shield for Caldari and Minmatar), but having expanded roles on these would be useful. For example: Having a Oneiros being able to increase the dmg output of the hybrid guns by increasing the magnetic fields based in the weapons to make them stronger (a 1.75% range increase say) I have to say i've never held more than 150 million isk, but then again i dont really want to be hording 10 billion isk, as then i'll kinda feel guilty (all this money, not really arsed to do anything with it)
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.20 17:47:00 - [116] Originally by: Arline Kley Having different types of stations would be good. Atm you can get control towers for each of the 4 races (others if your damned lucky) relativly easily. Now how about differing types e.g. a control tower that gives a say 5% bonus to BP research on certain BPs (so you can have a POS designed solely in the creation of Cruisers or Weapons say) or one that increases the amount of minerals given from a moon mining operation. Logistic ships are very limited in what they can do anyway (Armour for Amarr and Gallente, Shield for Caldari and Minmatar), but having expanded roles on these would be useful. For example: Having a Oneiros being able to increase the dmg output of the hybrid guns by increasing the magnetic fields based in the weapons to make them stronger (a 1.75% range increase say) I have to say i've never held more than 150 million isk, but then again i dont really want to be hording 10 billion isk, as then i'll kinda feel guilty (all this money, not really arsed to do anything with it) these are good ideas and might be a good way to stabilize moon material prices Trashed sig, Shark was here
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:49:00 - [117] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh There is NO possibility to differentiate yourself from another producer. You skill to unlock produceables, and then, that's it. No specialisation, no further improvement. The problem is that the way Eve is designed inherantly prevents this. The only way around it is to let players create new entries in the item's database and that has a lot of problems relating to it The priorities of the devs are elsewhere (pvp) and the changes to the game so fundamental to really properly implement it, that it really belongs in a different game altogether
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.05.20 19:56:00 - [118] The endgame for any manufacturer is to build that phallus they call a Titan. Because this goal requires 0.0, CCP can make this a goal of every industrialist by allowing their construction in stations. Perhaps a station manufacturing time penalty of 50% or something like that -------------------


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