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give the industralists some long term goals

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baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 07:51:00 - [31] get yourself into the cap ship business or get a jump freighter and make deals with 0.0 alliences. or you could always explore the combat side of eve.
Joe Umbra Legion	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:08:00 - [32] Edited by: Joe on 30/04/2008 09:16:36 Edit= forgot to add what pos networks make Tech II bpo's Used to be the 'holy grail' of Industrial goals. The 'orca' may be a a nice goal for empire Industrialts eventually. Atm i think the hardest goal to set is to operate a complete POS network chain in low sec that produces sometype of 'reaction'. Its quite challanging, and needs alot of capital. It is the Ultimae 'industrial goals that can be done completely in empire' Pe0w
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:20:00 - [33] I would honestly suggest invention, grab a POS, an alt corp and move into T2 production. 10B isn't a lot yes, but throw around half of that into invention and you can have something new to work on and develop into a new business for your portfolio. If you allready did this I apologise and disregard the suggestion. Alternativly, solo building a titan is a feather in your cap and comes with bragging rights, sell through Chibbra and make a signature about it. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:30:00 - [34] Originally by: SiJira there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk I wouldn't know if this is true. HOWEVER. I do recognise what I know of industry to be pretty dead-ended. As a solution idea, what if SiJira's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher was an option? You could make that sort of personalised invention seriously expensive, for all those high rollers out there. Item Database lovers aren't going to like it. But I like it. --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Shiverau FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Fifth Horseman Originally by: SiJira there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk I wouldn't know if this is true. HOWEVER. I do recognise what I know of industry to be pretty dead-ended. As a solution idea, what if SiJira's Modified Cruise Missile Launcher was an option? You could make that sort of personalised invention seriously expensive, for all those high rollers out there. Item Database lovers aren't going to like it. But I like it. best idea i've heard in a while.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Zifrian Originally by: Vaal Erit Like the others have said, you make your own goals. This isn't WoW, if you want WoW, you can play WoW, no one is stopping you. What goals does WoW have other than getting gear and gold? Getting gold in WoW is an objective, since when? You do know that gold in WoW is useless, right? ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:00:00 - [37] I think that one of the problems with the industrial proffesion is the fact that factories are like vending machines, you just pop in some minerals and a BPC and it starts popping out whatever items... BORING! Starting a production should be an investment. You should build a factory to produce the stuff you need. The T2 production does this better, but T1 production is uninteresting and largely useless, except for Ammo production (See vending machine comment above). I have previously proposed to change the system of T1 items and item drops completely. Let it be more component based. You build components and combine these to build items, much like rigs. but you can fine tune them to build the named T1 items. Rats drop items only rarely, but lots of components. Industrialists must invest to make a factory to produce components or items. IE specialize their production, instead of just mass aquiring blueprints and building whatever is the flavour of the day. Would make room for all sorts of small and bigtime industrialists to supply the market at different levels. And would make some bigger goals to work for. You start out as a smalltime component constructor, supplying others with one type of component they need for their production, eventually you've made enough money to build factories to be your own supplier for your own Microwarpdrive supplying empire, etc. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Misanth The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Reialis I don't really understand why you see ships as profession goals? There are plenty more game defining frontiers to conquer than just having x ship with x amount of cargo space filled with x amount of BPOs. As an established industrialist you have the financial power to really create something substantial within the world you play in. Why own a Titan when you can own galaxies? Exactly. My character is starting to fill out the Amarr military ships, and I'm far from interested in sitting in a Titan. I'd rather max out the level 5 skills I lack or cross-train to get access to other races ships, that'd probably make me alot more viable. ..but in that example, there's the industrialists issue. My alt is a business/trader/entrepreneur, and for her it's different. I think personally SiJira is just whining, having 10bil and feeling a lack of goal? My traders goal is to make money. Having 10bil is just the step before 11bil. Having 100bil is just the step before 101bil. Who cares what the number is, the goal is the same. The issue as I see it, is the industrialists, not the isk numbers, or ships you got access to. Industrialists can "max out" skillwise, traders can, a combat pilot can't. In that sense, the traders or industrialists etc will cross-train alot earlier than the combat pilots will. My solution to that is to make my trader optimize trade/refinining/transport ships, then that account will be used for upgrading my cyno alts to be able to use covert-ops and recons properly. Next step is to get black ops on them as well. Etc. Make your own goals. If your goal is to get into a ship or to get x isk, you will complete this game, and you fail the very essence of EVE.. that you can't complete this game.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Shiverau FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:10:00 - [39] i am not even an industrialist, yet i am about to undertake building a cap ship, just cos i can! make goals, its fun!
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:24:00 - [40] A Titan isn't a one man band. Industrial empires aren't either. Moon mine, Ice mine, gas mine, R&D, refinery, BPO research, stock piles, on and on and on. There is so much content in this game not directly connected to combat it's impossible to tough on it all.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.30 13:44:00 - [41] Edited by: Segge Bolled on 30/04/2008 13:46:29 Originally by: SiJira there is no good long term goal for anyone that has over 10 billion isk My immediate response would normally just be "Lies!" because I simply disagree, but to be fairer (and yet brutally honest) it simply sounds like to me that you just aren't trying very hard at all. Originally by: SiJira the only things that can be done are just the same things someone with a billion isk or less but at a macro level Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed. Originally by: SiJira give us more logistics ships that affect pvp Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships? Originally by: SiJira give us more types of stations So, give us details - no, seriously. I'm (only) guessing you don't exactly mean more station models, or do you? What kind of role do you want them to fill in EVE if you don't? Originally by: SiJira give us modules that do the opposite of mobile warp disruptors and prevent anyone from warping in within a certain distance Interesting idea, I think there is another forum for things like this? Maybe it wouldn't get as many views, I don't know. Maybe it'd find more fertile soil there all the same. Originally by: SiJira industrial goals that can be done outside of alliances but not in high sec empire So you don't want to join an Alliance, but you want the same kind of benefits it can provide? As for "not in high sec", do you mean in 0.0 or low sec? Both? Easy. Form as large a corporation as you can and don't be part of or form an Alliance. You can still put up a POS, etc. Just don't expect the same incentives (whatever they actually are for you) for not having done the work to get them, would be my immediate advice. Originally by: SiJira and industrial goals that can be done completely in empire Well here is one to research and try if you haven't already: build up a lucrative high-sec invention POS network. Then if you can find a buyer, sell it on and pour ISK into something different, perhaps even something not wholly industrial? Originally by: SiJira the pvp is improved when the biggest rewards are where the carebear has to stick their neck out on the line No comment, other than I do quite enjoy getting so-called "phat lewts" from the smoking wreckages myself ... To be frank, it seems very much to me that you're simply yelling "GIVE ME MORE MEAT!" but declining to inform us as to whether you'd prefer the veal or the chicken dish, so we don't know what it is exactly you want. Hardly the smartest way to get served properly in a classy establishment like this, or so I'd have thought. EDIT: Pale men can't hyperlink.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.30 13:50:00 - [42] Edited by: Segge Bolled on 30/04/2008 13:56:09 Now, as for something I'd very much like to do as an Industrialist if I ever had the simply huge amounts of ISK I'd likely require and no less the great deal of like minded support to realize it: I'd like to do something a little similar to what ISS was doing, back in the day. I would build Outposts for "everyone". My own goal would be to research the whole deep 0.0 expanse of the EVE regions and try to arrange to liaise closely with whatever Alliances I find holding power in points of interest for me at the time, to engage in financing massive Outpost infrastructure expansions for both them and ultimately all EVE. Whenever I find a spot I like, I'd offer the powers of the day my/our services, by which I/we would fund the bulk of the construction effort for them in order to produce the Outpost I'd/we'd like to see built there. Once I'd/we'd built it, I'd name it, announce it to the public as complete, then we'd hand it over to the new owners so they can defend it if they want to keep it and otherwise do whatever they like to it after I've packed off to the next Outpost construction effort. My ultimate goal would simply be my (and clearly my close associates) becoming known for using our epic ISK piles to invest back into EVE itself in this possibly quite challenging manner. It'd be designed to be an epic ISK sink for us, not an ISK printer. Ideally, I'd first have us build ourselves our own little H.Q. outpost in a nice little drone region constellation (I've always loved the look of the Caldari outpost myself) - and never expand out of the area - all the other outposts built would be for others to worry about and for all to (potentially) enjoy use of if they dare. It and the resources it provides us would be open to all for use with the caveat that should your alliance or even corporation be frequently causing trouble for the builder alliance it would drop your own alliance down the designated priorities list for upgrading, to the point someone would be paid to cause trouble for you in return - we do after all have insanely sized piles of ISK to do all this to begin with and are such dirty care bears we can't raise more than a sell order in our defense, The whole thing is completely crazy I guess and I've done very little fact finding (Uh, none at all actually - but I like it better this way) but why not dream a wild dream if you're going to dream at all? EDIT: We can't spell, either.
Lazor Hag Machiavellian Intuition	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:20:00 - [43] Edited by: Lazor Hag on 30/04/2008 14:20:39 saying that 'there is no good long term goal for [any industrialist] that has over 10 billion isk' is just as ridiculous as saying 'There is no long term goal for any PvPer who has killed a titan' or 'there is no long term goal for any mission runner who has run every mission'. On one level these are all true, there is no further that you can take that particular activity without repeating what you have already done, however, just because you have done everything you can do at that level it does not mean you have done everything you can do in the game. Eve is an MMO, the key part of that being multiplayer. Once you have done everything you can do as an individual in any particular field (Industry, PvP, PvE etc) then you have two choices: 1) Move to a different field. 2) Move to a leadership position. The leadership positions are surely the ultimate evolution of gameplay in Eve, at the highest level they combine PvP, Industry, Management and pretty much every other aspect of the game. If you are unwilling or unable to go there then that is your look out, be happy with what you are doing and accept your position; you have no reason to complain of a situation that is entirely of your own making.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 30/04/2008 14:45:21 If you're imagination is beginning to flag then check the real world for inspiration. Industrialist --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Landarian Spaceways Provisioning Company	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:55:00 - [45] Here's one I'd personally like to see ... Non-sovereignty claiming, player run Outposts in LOW-SEC space. Why? To be able to offer Outpost services for a fee in areas that have no NPC outposts available. Docking, fitting, refining, repairs, medical, manufacturing, research - the whole nine yards, offered by players to players. With the ability to set standings that would deny docking rights but would also modify station services prices. Outpost construction costs are huge but the potential for enticing small-medium corps to spread out from Empire space seems like it would be high. An industrialist corp could spend billions building these and make billions administering them or selling them to corps/alliances that have no desire to participate in 0.0 politics/BS but do want to spread out from Empire. Granted I haven't thought through all the game mechanics of this but it would seem like something a wealthy industrialist could use as a goal. L
Rubra J. S. Bach In memoriam	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:12:00 - [46] Give industrialists the ability to do something with Outpost Construction 5, like construct Dyson Rings in space next to moons. Give it a minimum of five months of construction time and only let them be anchored in lowsec or nullspace. Oh, and they can be sieged and destroyed too. That should satisfy them.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:20:00 - [47] become a real good leader! now that's a goal if your losing interests? As in helping other member grown and use your isk in investment programs to help people grow etc. Thats what i will do when i get back on my feet after 5 months of non active :P Trinity Corporate Services
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:22:00 - [48] my suggestion would be capital ship construction or get more into pvp
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:42:00 - [49] You could work up cap ship production and delivery business. At the high end of that you could spend 100 bil setting up titan production before you have anything to show for it. Or you could plant an outpost (or capture a station) and try to make a major trade/production hub out of it. There's huge potential for profit, but it's certainly not risk-free. Obviously these are huge 0.0 operations and will most likely require a group effort, but that's how MMOs work. If you're looking for individual goals, those come to an end after 1 month in most MMOs. However, if you really wanted to solo, you might could offer a pos refueling service to some alliance where you bounce around in a jump freighter full of pos fuels. Obviously you'd have to be careful how you develop your clients but that's just how eve is.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:29:00 - [50] Edited by: SiJira on 30/04/2008 17:29:35 Originally by: Misanth ..but in that example, there's the industrialists issue. My alt is a business/trader/entrepreneur, and for her it's different. I think personally SiJira is just whining, having 10bil and feeling a lack of goal? My traders goal is to make money. Having 10bil is just the step before 11bil. Having 100bil is just the step before 101bil. Who cares what the number is, the goal is the same. thats the entire problem is that you do the same boring thing on a bigger level its as if there were no more ships for pvp after cruisers why need bigger ships and alliance sovereignty when you can just have huge cruiser fights? we have moved past that and now a significant aspect of the game needs the same attention Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Segge Bolled Really? Because I only have about 3 billion liquid at the moment and there are a hell of a lot of things I'd love to do in EVE and quite frankly your paltry 10 billion quote doesn't even begin to cover it, indeed 100 billion would still be hard pressed. Then give us all more details, like what kind of logistics. Do you mean Logistics-logistics or some more of these and these things? I know people sometime use the term "logistics" a little loosely. Then, what exactly are you looking for from these ships? you make it sound like i only have 10 billion while if you read my post 10 billion is a very specific point and it is true what i have said about it logistics ships that affect pvp so i believe this clearly rules out transport ships does it not? they can be anything as long as we get more of them Trashed sig, Shark was here
Des Garcons	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Zifrian What goals does WoW have other than getting gear and gold? being seduced by a girl that is really a 12 yr old boy?
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:58:00 - [53] Originally by: SiJira please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best Well, the only reason the economy exists to begin with is to provide us with combat ships, so you can't say the two things must be separate. Eve's economy is a war economy. The things we can produce are almost all war materials of some kind, and the little that isn't is stuff that helps production and transport of said war materials. So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: SiJira please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works. oh really eve is a pvp game thank you for this discovery no one is saying anything needs to be otherwise except the size of the goals Trashed sig, Shark was here
Joe Umbra Legion	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Joe on 30/04/2008 18:18:10 edit = made it alittle nicer Originally by: Joe Atm i think the hardest goal to set is to operate a complete POS network chain in low sec that produces sometype of 'reaction'. Its quite challanging, and needs alot of capital. It is the Ultimae 'industrial goals that can be done completely in empire' I noticed you replied to everyone except the people that actually give you what you ask for SiJira. POS networks can be run on any scale depending on the time and capital you have spare. Many POS networks producing reactions are handled by single players, who i'm sure pride themselves on being true industralists. Be apart of the MASSIVE production chain that is Manufacturing in eve, and stop complaining becuase you cant see posibilities. Pe0w
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:22:00 - [56] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: SiJira please stop saying pvp as the answer to industrial goals because it makes you look foolish at best So, yes, pvp combat is the (only) point of industry and trade in Eve. To say it needs to be otherwise is to ask for a fundamental change in how this game works. oh really eve is a pvp game thank you for this discovery no one is saying anything needs to be otherwise except the size of the goals You said so. And there are no "goals" in any field in Eve, at all, except what the individual player(s) decide he/she/they want to achieve for whatever reason.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Soporo WTF, for people obver 10 billion? And exactly what percentage of the player base might that be? I can't see the Devs spending time to create content specifically targeted at this miniscule fraction of players. Not likely (but you never know), however I will agree that Indusrty in GENERAL needs some serious attention. I would add that if I had 10 bil or more, I assure you I could come up with a viable long range, amusing plan. It would most likely involve lots of explosions, announcing a LowSec chain claim, and masses of Mercs to name just one idea. Spoken like a true proletarian, 10 Billion ISK is absolutely nothing when it comes massive things you are talking about - so it means you have no idea of: How Much ISK properly trained Merc Corporation costs per week... How Much ISK a chain of towers in Low Sec takes to maintain... How much turn-over you will have... The keyword is being "amusing" I think, for about a week, then with your 10 Billion gone you will be back grinding belts in 0.0 or missions. Long term goals for those who are rich are very important - something number of people with 10 Billion each can get behind, lets say 10-20 people with 10 Billion each and with some way of securing the invested ISK, and turning a modest profit. People did not make 10 Billion or more by being stupid in this game, they have created the wealth by working the angles, well most of us anyway, it did not just drop in our laps.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Hannobaal You said so. And there are no "goals" in any field in Eve, at all, except what the individual player(s) decide he/she/they want to achieve for whatever reason. there is a goal for every type of activity and some of them are way too short to make a real profession Trashed sig, Shark was here
Khellendra	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:56:00 - [59] Just to provide some perspective. I'm an industrialist looking for ways to do business. I have . . . umm had 1.4b in liquid isk (i just purchased a carrier). I looked into expanding my business enterprise and this is what I found. A) If I wanted to get involved in capital production from start to finish. - initial cost of capital would be almost 30 billion B) If I wanted to build a station outpost - initial cost of capital would be almost 30 billion C) If i wanted to purchase a Raven BPO, research it, and build ravens - The cost is 1.3b or so of the BPO and it would literally take me hundreds of ravens just to break even on the profit. D) If i wanted to build a PoS in 0.0 and get some reactions out of it. - The cost would range between 400-1billion start up and that's including fuel costs The point i'm trying to make is that, even if I had 10 billion isk in liquid cash, it wouldn't be that helpful. It's like being a millionare in the Real World, you have a ton of money, but when you start looking at your options, millions of dollars is a very very small amount of money. LIkewise, 10 billion is very small for an industrialist. For a combat pilot, you're in heaven :) My suggestion is to find a niche that makes you happy and then inhabit it. If the niche gives you 100b then that's great if it gets you no money but makes you happy even better.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.01 20:22:00 - [60] Edited by: SiJira on 01/05/2008 20:22:06 Originally by: Khellendra A B C D why do capital production start to finish? thats like doing several different professions at once outpost has more to do with alliance warfare than any sort of industrial goal the raven bpo didnt cost you a lot and you will be able to use the isk you get from building a couple to build the next few again most of the big goals are just things you can do with a lot less isk but at a larger level buying t2 bpos is about the only goal that can be done with a lot of isk and there is not much isk sink in that Trashed sig, Shark was here

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