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Falcon's, the condom of PVP

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Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:53 Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:44 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... lollin at you trying to have ideas, it is so cute Originally by:** Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Aadi Grox Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:53 Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:44 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... lollin at you trying to have ideas, it is so cute Originally by:** Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff The dirty lil minnie alt is trying to defend himself in a argument Your doing it wrong, you don't use a/c's on forums little one. No - I really mean it. I'm going to petition CCP and request they nerf the crap out of ECM and Nanos so we can see how long it takes for the Minmatar playerbase to ***** and beg CCP to restore the ECM and nanos to original specs. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:08:00 - [33] you guys give me ideas lets nerf everything untill the abadon/geddon are the best ships in game i like sitting still and hitting stuff with pulse lasers!!!!!!! nerf everything else!!!!!
Golden Helmet Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:11:00 - [34] Originally by: Aadi Grox [ you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates!
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 23:26:31 Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 23:26:03 I have made a post about the nerf idea on the features and discussion : Linky Edit: Holy crap, no whines from either Caldari or Minnies yet They are backing off, didn't think it would be THAT EASY ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Sean Dillon Whine hard enough and they will nerf the falcon. We can only hope. Nostalgia \| Deadspace2 \| Deadspace
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:43:22 Amastat you are ***ing about what tons of other carebears have been *ing about for a long time, and you posted it in a forum that few people read. Originally by:** Golden Helmet Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. It is less about being jammed and more about the rook being turned into a useless piece of **** when the falcon was fine as is. It could cloak, run around, but had less chance of jamming half of a small gang. I use it regularly and it is stupid how much DPS it kills.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Aadi Grox Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:43:22 Amastat are ***ing about what tons of other carebears have been *ing about for a long time, and you posted it in a forum that few people read. Originally by:** Golden Helmet Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. It is less about beingjammed and more about the rook being turned into a useless piece of **** when the falcon was fine as is. It could cloak, run around, but had less chance of jamming half of a small gang. I use it regularly and it is stupid how much DPS it kills. You sound like your a little upset Aadi What's the problem? ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Tregaron Minmatar Filthy Scum	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:58:00 - [39] Tbh EW ships are now factors in every gang it's like oh lets go kill this 6 man gang with our 30 man gang oh wait we need 10 EW ships first. yeh i lost my bhaalgorn to a 30 man gang who brought 3x kitsune, 3x falcons, 2x rooks and 2x blackbirds least i would like to have was a nice fight before going pop but no can't lock anything can't tank 30 hostiles and sentrys it's just wrong. i mean you jump in say a golem or kronos only takes 1 blackbird and a damage dealer and ur feked. a 7mil cruiser can mess up a 1bil+ ship easy as pie. kill the blackbird few secs l8ter he comes back in another. yeh alright for some peeps to say fit ECCM but it don't work wen your fightin gangs with 5+ ew ships. oh well lolz
jimmyjam Gallente Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? Yeah bro this happens way too much .Its sad though
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:17:00 - [41] How do you know the falcon was an alt? Anyway i don't see a problem here. Well apart from the pilot not waiting up to the point where you are really commited and deagressing isn't possible anymore. You ask how common this scenario is and i wonder what you mean. In eve you use what advantage you have to win. Its absolutely common and one of the key aspects of the game. Now most people (me included) like to have exciting fights here and there but if you find yourself in a "fair" fight all the time you're pretty much gonna loose 50% of the time(unless you badly outskill your opponents or they are just subpar). For most people that isn't acceptable neither from the financial nor the statistics-whoring point of view. Only because you were ready to risk your brutix at that point in time for a decent fight doesn't mean he has to do that too. Maybe he just recently lost a ship and now would just like to make some kills without more risk than needed. Doesn't say he'd never have the balls for an even match. Just maybe on a different time and not just when you want your way. And if the falcon was not an alt its even more understandable. What fc is going to tell half of his gang to keep out of a fight unless its a agreed 1vs1 just because its not fair? Sorry peeps i need to make decent killmails you're not gonna even activate your modules this evening. Better luck next time. Furthermore he could've just wanted your mods. Some people try to make enough money with pvp only. Ain't easy and you just might take everything you can despite how your opposite feels about getting ganked. And what really interests me: do you never gank? Have your targets always a fair chance to kill you and do you never use overkill? Do you tell gangmates to keep out of fights to make for even matches? Maybe the answer is yes and in that case hats off. But that is not the pvp 99% of eve are involved in or even want to be involved in. Decent fights happen rarely but they do happen. This time it just didn't work out keep that in mind next time you bait someone into a fight with your buddies on the other side of the gate. As for smacking you because of deagressing/docking. Thats just bad style right there. But those things are often highly subjective in nature.
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:32:00 - [42] Wu, this isn't about the fact that he decloaked a falcon as much as the sheer power of decimating an enemy gang simply because of one ship.
Warrio Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.08 02:45:00 - [43] People, people. Enough with the nerf this and nerf that. Let's get back to the real point of this post... Oh, that's right, there isn't one. Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.08 02:53:00 - [44] I use a falcon alt. Honestly, its overpowered. I think the combination of powerful ECM with cloaking is what does it. ECM is bad enough as it is, but when you combine it with the ability to warp cloaked it gets a little bit out of hand. IMO the falcon needs to be brought down on ECM strength; it shouldn't have cov-ops cloak AND the strongest ecm bonus' available. The falcon shouldn't be able to jam as well or better than the non-cloaky ships since that totaly obsoletes all ECM ships but the falcon (except maybe scorp simply for the extra HP). I don't know what CCP was thinking when the changed it to a 20% jam strength bonus. Blackbird, scorp, and falcon should go back down to a 10% bonus, while the rook and the widow keep the 20%.
Loree Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:45:00 - [45] Edited by: Loree on 08/05/2008 04:45:55 Jesus people dont u read the first page. I was falcon pilot. I was not a alt I wanted mods He smacked first for me being a ecm pilot I finished his smack for him (cause he wasnt good at it) ECM is not overpowered, a 150m+ force recon should be able to lock down a few targets and it dose it fine. We fold easily under attack so our defense is ECM. Damps need boosting, cry about that. ECM WORKS FINE.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:55:00 - [46] I dont know what your all complaining about, I love being perma jammed while I'm getting ganked, makes the whole experience less painfull because I dont have to worry about shooting back, I can just jump in --> die instead of getting a fight.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:35:00 - [47] Edited by: Garmon on 08/05/2008 06:34:57 I have a falcon alt and yes I do fly them sometimes, coming from personal experience, they are extremely overpowered and I'll love to see them get fixed. And also if you wanted his mods, you would have only decloaked when necessary... __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
F'lan Ker Caldari DAB	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:46:00 - [48] ECM in a game is far from what it is in reality. IRL you need a lot of power to permajam anything, in other words blanket jamming. This requires a lot of power and a small plane is not able to do it. Let's compare to EVE, even it is quite futile.. A fighter in real world has either an external pod for ECM or even airframe mounted in some cases. It can deceive incoming missiles to SOME degree or make it harder for the enemy to lock you with his radar(s), but no way is it a iWin (tm) permajammer. Also the use of ECM makes your signature so big that anyone around sees where you are thus real life has it's FoF called Home-on-jam capability. ECM is merely a defensive measure to deceive your true location to the incoming threat thus minimizing damage. Now let's see in EVE. A cruiser sized vessel can permajam a large ship permanently if wishing so thus it would require helluva lot of power to run these modules to achieve the required signal strength. In EVE you have no worries about this which is a bit odd. Now let's take the Scorpion for example. It is a dedicated EW battleship. It should have the power and systems required to permajam almost any vessel of it's size and all below that, maybe more chance based on vessel above it's size. Now it is just more cost effective to get a few EW cruisers to do the job of a ship that is supposed to do it. Scorpion is basically a sitting duck without cover. Is this allright and balanced? Also what we lack in EVE is the ability of a radar to adjust to jamming by frequency hopping and "burning thru". Eventually it will get thru the jamming by changing frequency or increasing it's own power to increase pulse strenghth. Not likely to happen in EVE though, would be too complicated to do maybe. EW is good, but a bit way off atm in my opinion. It should be an asset that can turn the tide of combat, not making it a onesided slugfest. For those flamers out there, I am working with military applications so I know something about the issue Just adapt is the slogan of EVE I think..or die. ----------------------------------------------------- ~Let Chaos Entwine On Defenceless Soil~
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:49:00 - [49] Edited by: Garmon on 08/05/2008 06:50:21 nm, I'm vaaary tired __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
Jaedar Metron Digital Greed	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:52:00 - [50] ECM is alot better now than it was, at least you don't see everyone and their families plus the neighbours dog using it
Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:54:00 - [51] Damn I seem to have hit a nerve... I was only asking if it was a common occurance across the Eve Uni ps. Nice to see the noob corp fail crew couldn't resist a reply
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? I got sick of being ECMed all day long, so now I just fly around with four of my gangmates in Falcons. It's great. They uncloak one, we uncloak one, they uncloak another, we do the same. If they bring more than four Falcons, we pop a cyno and the carrier hot drop war begins. It sucks that this is what PVP has been reduced to. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.05.08 09:39:00 - [53] i know the flacon is the new i win buton in eve :) it disables 2 to 3 guys in a fight. only thing you do is put one at 100km and start jamming :p lowers the dps allot or ever prerma jamm if theres only 1 target. but its not totaly unbeatable. ive had a few times where i was fighting a phobos in a broadsword and a falcon showed up 100km away from station. ofcouse i deagressed, but i also asked a friend to warp to station at 100km when he came in to local. before i knew it i saw a white flash and the fight of phobos vs broadsword continued... ofcouse he didnt want to fihgt anymore and tryed to dock up. --- Somebody needs a hug!
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2008.05.08 09:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:35:00 - [55] Edited by: Akiba Penrose on 08/05/2008 10:35:41 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... Falcons is the main reason why we fly in Nano-gangs. If we have a 3-5 man BS gang,, and run into a similar gang but with Falcon(s), we're pretty much ****. Hence we fly nano gangs instead,, so we can gtfo when they start de cloaking.
Antarus Lars	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:40:00 - [56] Yeah.. its the key problem. Falcons are everywhere cuz of a few key factors. 1 = People dont like losing ships 2 = Fear of other players having recon support and being unable to get out (jamm there falcon to keep it even) 3 = Fear of teh blob (you engange, then see the stargate start flashing.. only thing thats gonna save you is a falcon jamm -> warp out) 4 = Wanting an easy win All of which are hard to argue against... as we have all thought it.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:44:00 - [57] i haven't seen many solo pvpers go around with a falcon.I should imagine it sucks big time but meh.
Neal Cassady Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:44:00 - [58] falcons may be overpowered, but ive run a bunch off and killed a few with well fit nano ships. best argument for nano ships is that they are the most commonly used counter to falcons. sniping bs could be even better, but no one uses them...
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:56:00 - [59] You guys are missing the point. The point is that the guy with the falcon alt failed miserably when he should've gotten an easy kill. It is bad, lots of falcons around, but at least it isn't as bad as ECM multispecs used to be, god I hated those days, "the good ol' unbalanced stupid game mechanic days" I call 'em
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Everyone Dies ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame. the word lame is lame Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

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