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Falcon's, the condom of PVP

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Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:57:00 - [1] Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario?
THEHUNTER123 Minmatar Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:05:00 - [2] if in doubt bring a falcon
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:05:00 - [3] I have not heard of this to happen all that often. Falcons aren't exactly a quick thing to train in a brand new alt - so this would only ever happen when you bump into a older pilot who has a 2nd account and has taken the time to do this. Chances are that Falcon alt was not intended to solo PvP with, but to provide cynosural fields for a capital on his main account. It's possible you were a victim of circumstance, the circumstance that he just happened to have his falcon in the same station when you were going to attack him :P It is possible that alt's creation was for PvP though after all - but if that was true you can expect him to pull out a different ship than a Falcon at some point. But are you entirely sure this is a alt we are talking about? People who can multi-task between 2 characters in a fight at the same time and not have performance issues is a rare-breed - at least when the alts are also attackers. I suppose its easier to PvP on two names when the other name does nothing but sit at range and jam. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Mikko Alatalo	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:10:00 - [4] Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy.
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:11:00 - [5] everyone allready have a falcon alt.. if you dont have you beter start training! --------
Fivel Ve	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:15:00 - [6] hmmmmmmm.... i now know how to advertise my alt I will be selling that can fly caldari recon
Loree Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Loree on 07/05/2008 11:29:50 Hah, I was the falcon pilot. Next time don't think all fights are 1v1 in eve. You started the smack first , so i finished it. Get over it. ps. I was there for your modules.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Big Al on 07/05/2008 11:32:20 1 Falcon alt isn't too bad, it's when they have 2 or more that it really sucks! I dunno why stationhumpers get all butthurt when people deagress and dock when they are permajammed though. The funniest thing about falcon alts is when the idiot doesn't have it very far away and you have say... luck or an overloaded eccm and instapop it then procede to have your way with his gang.
Kahrek Laume Gallente Atropos Asylum	Posted - 2008.05.07 13:54:00 - [9] With the nerf to damps (See many lachesis / arazu around?) ECM boats are now the FoTM and the default iwin for small gang warfare, ECCM is soon to become a necessary item. Even with ECCM unless your sensor strength hits the 40's you are going to be prettymuch permajammed.
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Kahrek Laume With the nerf to damps (See many lachesis / arazu around?) ECM boats are now the FoTM and the default iwin for small gang warfare, ECCM is soon to become a necessary item. Even with ECCM unless your sensor strength hits the 40's you are going to be prettymuch permajammed. or just get a single ship to get his drones on the falcon and keep making it warp out/kill it.

Celador Nane the united	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: Kahrek Laume With the nerf to damps (See many lachesis / arazu around?) ECM boats are now the FoTM and the default iwin for small gang warfare, ECCM is soon to become a necessary item. Even with ECCM unless your sensor strength hits the 40's you are going to be prettymuch permajammed. or just get a single ship to get his drones on the falcon and keep making it warp out/kill it. Your drones go 230km?... nice....
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Celador Nane Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: Kahrek Laume With the nerf to damps (See many lachesis / arazu around?) ECM boats are now the FoTM and the default iwin for small gang warfare, ECCM is soon to become a necessary item. Even with ECCM unless your sensor strength hits the 40's you are going to be prettymuch permajammed. or just get a single ship to get his drones on the falcon and keep making it warp out/kill it. Your drones go 230km?... nice.... I know you probably don't get out in 0.0 too much, but there are nanoships like the ishtar which go fast, meaning they can travel a good distance then have their drones attack. If the falcon cloaks/warps out, you have successfully taken it out of the fight.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Celador Nane Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: Kahrek Laume With the nerf to damps (See many lachesis / arazu around?) ECM boats are now the FoTM and the default iwin for small gang warfare, ECCM is soon to become a necessary item. Even with ECCM unless your sensor strength hits the 40's you are going to be prettymuch permajammed. or just get a single ship to get his drones on the falcon and keep making it warp out/kill it. Your drones go 230km?... nice.... Hey, if it's a random encounter and they just happen to have a BM 230km off the fight location, then there's no reason why you can't :) If you pick the location, they wont have a falcon at 230km... if they pick the location then it's fair enough. -- Ralara / Ralarina "SMASH is probably the alliance most immune to failure cascade, why? because their is no organisation to collapse its just a random mish mash of various players."
Celador Nane the united	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:24:00 - [14] warp out Warp in @ 100 Bookmark Warp out (diff direction) Warp in @ 100 Apr 200km from gate in non aligned position in a couple of mins, more than enuff time for any decent fight, not to mention all real falcon flyers bookmark every gate they come across & have many jamming points
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Celador Nane all real falcon flyers bookmark every gate they come across & have many jamming points your typical 0.0 roaming gang... FC: alright, everyone jump on contact falcon pilot: WAIT!!!! FC: what falcon pilot: give me a minute or 2 to make a jamming bm FC: facepalm
Celador Nane the united	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:35:00 - [16] Hahaha... so true... But all of the popular spots usually have em premade ;)
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:40:00 - [17] nobody is making you fight at choke point gates, a decent nanofag gang will **** up a falcon anyway
Celador Nane the united	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:45:00 - [18] Any decent camp also has raipers & huggins to kill said ergo nanogangs With falcon support also, try catching 2 or 3 falcons with multiple bookmarks who warp between n cloak, uncloak jamm etc.. Harder than it sounds... trust me
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Celador Nane Any decent camp also has raipers & huggins to kill said ergo nanogangs With falcon support also, try catching 2 or 3 falcons with multiple bookmarks who warp between n cloak, uncloak jamm etc.. Harder than it sounds... trust me then avoid that fight if you can't kill it, it isn't a matter of falcons/rapiers being overpowered, it is a good gatecamp.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:56:00 - [20] Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 14:57:06 Lol... A western style stand-off in EVE could be either: Stealth Bomber vs. Stealth Bomber @ 10km Falcon vs. Falcon WHO WILL LOCK THE FIRST?! ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.07 15:32:00 - [21] Minmatar mafia loves the falcon all their kills on us have at least 1 falcon and yes bc on bc would have been a good fight. i would have at least let it gone untill it was known who would win, aka you would blow up before you could dock again or i was going to lose my ship before uncloaking the falcon and I tried to falcon + snipe bs at the same time once, it didn't go well... getting jammed and then having to relock and shoot the right guy and jam the other guys managing all that at the same time is 2 bs or 2 falcons i think i could do
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 15:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Minmatar mafia loves the falcon not as much as the xl booster polycarbed drake
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Minmatar mafia loves the falcon not as much as the xl booster polycarbed drake trying to keep that on the dl
Everyone Dies Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:45:00 - [24] ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:01:00 - [25] Originally by: THEHUNTER123 if in doubt bring a falcon sadly if only this was true, more like, if in doubt, bring twice as many people. ---
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Everyone Dies ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame. yeah, the rook is pretty much only for poor people now
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Everyone Dies ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame. Hey, I have a great idea! Lets make all the ships made for the role ECM useless! I'm for buffing damp boats btw, they need a buff so you people **** about them as well since its not fair using ewar!* DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Hey, I have a great idea! Lets make all the ships made for the role ECM useless! I'm for buffing damp boats btw, they need a buff so you people **** about them as well since its not fair using ewar!* 1) rook 2) I flew falcons before the buff, they were fine
Sean Dillon Caldari Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:33:00 - [29] Whine hard enough and they will nerf the falcon.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:53:00 - [30] Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the **** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the

Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:53 Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:44 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... lollin at you trying to have ideas, it is so cute Originally by:** Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Aadi Grox Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:53 Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:00:44 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... lollin at you trying to have ideas, it is so cute Originally by:** Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff The dirty lil minnie alt is trying to defend himself in a argument Your doing it wrong, you don't use a/c's on forums little one. No - I really mean it. I'm going to petition CCP and request they nerf the crap out of ECM and Nanos so we can see how long it takes for the Minmatar playerbase to ***** and beg CCP to restore the ECM and nanos to original specs. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:08:00 - [33] you guys give me ideas lets nerf everything untill the abadon/geddon are the best ships in game i like sitting still and hitting stuff with pulse lasers!!!!!!! nerf everything else!!!!!
Golden Helmet Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:11:00 - [34] Originally by: Aadi Grox [ you forgot the part where they buffed the falcon when it really didn't deserve a buff Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates!
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 23:26:31 Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 23:26:03 I have made a post about the nerf idea on the features and discussion : Linky Edit: Holy crap, no whines from either Caldari or Minnies yet They are backing off, didn't think it would be THAT EASY ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Sean Dillon Whine hard enough and they will nerf the falcon. We can only hope. Nostalgia \| Deadspace2 \| Deadspace
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:43:22 Amastat you are ***ing about what tons of other carebears have been *ing about for a long time, and you posted it in a forum that few people read. Originally by:** Golden Helmet Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. It is less about being jammed and more about the rook being turned into a useless piece of **** when the falcon was fine as is. It could cloak, run around, but had less chance of jamming half of a small gang. I use it regularly and it is stupid how much DPS it kills.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Aadi Grox Edited by: Aadi Grox on 07/05/2008 23:43:22 Amastat are ***ing about what tons of other carebears have been *ing about for a long time, and you posted it in a forum that few people read. Originally by:** Golden Helmet Buff or no buff, the Falcon is fine as it is right now. If you don't want to get jammed, start packing ECCM or bring your own Falcon \ BB \ Kitsune \ whateverthehellyouwant. It is less about beingjammed and more about the rook being turned into a useless piece of **** when the falcon was fine as is. It could cloak, run around, but had less chance of jamming half of a small gang. I use it regularly and it is stupid how much DPS it kills. You sound like your a little upset Aadi What's the problem? ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Tregaron Minmatar Filthy Scum	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:58:00 - [39] Tbh EW ships are now factors in every gang it's like oh lets go kill this 6 man gang with our 30 man gang oh wait we need 10 EW ships first. yeh i lost my bhaalgorn to a 30 man gang who brought 3x kitsune, 3x falcons, 2x rooks and 2x blackbirds least i would like to have was a nice fight before going pop but no can't lock anything can't tank 30 hostiles and sentrys it's just wrong. i mean you jump in say a golem or kronos only takes 1 blackbird and a damage dealer and ur feked. a 7mil cruiser can mess up a 1bil+ ship easy as pie. kill the blackbird few secs l8ter he comes back in another. yeh alright for some peeps to say fit ECCM but it don't work wen your fightin gangs with 5+ ew ships. oh well lolz
jimmyjam Gallente Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? Yeah bro this happens way too much .Its sad though

Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:17:00 - [41] How do you know the falcon was an alt? Anyway i don't see a problem here. Well apart from the pilot not waiting up to the point where you are really commited and deagressing isn't possible anymore. You ask how common this scenario is and i wonder what you mean. In eve you use what advantage you have to win. Its absolutely common and one of the key aspects of the game. Now most people (me included) like to have exciting fights here and there but if you find yourself in a "fair" fight all the time you're pretty much gonna loose 50% of the time(unless you badly outskill your opponents or they are just subpar). For most people that isn't acceptable neither from the financial nor the statistics-whoring point of view. Only because you were ready to risk your brutix at that point in time for a decent fight doesn't mean he has to do that too. Maybe he just recently lost a ship and now would just like to make some kills without more risk than needed. Doesn't say he'd never have the balls for an even match. Just maybe on a different time and not just when you want your way. And if the falcon was not an alt its even more understandable. What fc is going to tell half of his gang to keep out of a fight unless its a agreed 1vs1 just because its not fair? Sorry peeps i need to make decent killmails you're not gonna even activate your modules this evening. Better luck next time. Furthermore he could've just wanted your mods. Some people try to make enough money with pvp only. Ain't easy and you just might take everything you can despite how your opposite feels about getting ganked. And what really interests me: do you never gank? Have your targets always a fair chance to kill you and do you never use overkill? Do you tell gangmates to keep out of fights to make for even matches? Maybe the answer is yes and in that case hats off. But that is not the pvp 99% of eve are involved in or even want to be involved in. Decent fights happen rarely but they do happen. This time it just didn't work out keep that in mind next time you bait someone into a fight with your buddies on the other side of the gate. As for smacking you because of deagressing/docking. Thats just bad style right there. But those things are often highly subjective in nature.
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:32:00 - [42] Wu, this isn't about the fact that he decloaked a falcon as much as the sheer power of decimating an enemy gang simply because of one ship.
Warrio Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.08 02:45:00 - [43] People, people. Enough with the nerf this and nerf that. Let's get back to the real point of this post... Oh, that's right, there isn't one. Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.08 02:53:00 - [44] I use a falcon alt. Honestly, its overpowered. I think the combination of powerful ECM with cloaking is what does it. ECM is bad enough as it is, but when you combine it with the ability to warp cloaked it gets a little bit out of hand. IMO the falcon needs to be brought down on ECM strength; it shouldn't have cov-ops cloak AND the strongest ecm bonus' available. The falcon shouldn't be able to jam as well or better than the non-cloaky ships since that totaly obsoletes all ECM ships but the falcon (except maybe scorp simply for the extra HP). I don't know what CCP was thinking when the changed it to a 20% jam strength bonus. Blackbird, scorp, and falcon should go back down to a 10% bonus, while the rook and the widow keep the 20%.
Loree Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:45:00 - [45] Edited by: Loree on 08/05/2008 04:45:55 Jesus people dont u read the first page. I was falcon pilot. I was not a alt I wanted mods He smacked first for me being a ecm pilot I finished his smack for him (cause he wasnt good at it) ECM is not overpowered, a 150m+ force recon should be able to lock down a few targets and it dose it fine. We fold easily under attack so our defense is ECM. Damps need boosting, cry about that. ECM WORKS FINE.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.05.08 04:55:00 - [46] I dont know what your all complaining about, I love being perma jammed while I'm getting ganked, makes the whole experience less painfull because I dont have to worry about shooting back, I can just jump in --> die instead of getting a fight.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:35:00 - [47] Edited by: Garmon on 08/05/2008 06:34:57 I have a falcon alt and yes I do fly them sometimes, coming from personal experience, they are extremely overpowered and I'll love to see them get fixed. And also if you wanted his mods, you would have only decloaked when necessary... __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
F'lan Ker Caldari DAB	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:46:00 - [48] ECM in a game is far from what it is in reality. IRL you need a lot of power to permajam anything, in other words blanket jamming. This requires a lot of power and a small plane is not able to do it. Let's compare to EVE, even it is quite futile.. A fighter in real world has either an external pod for ECM or even airframe mounted in some cases. It can deceive incoming missiles to SOME degree or make it harder for the enemy to lock you with his radar(s), but no way is it a iWin (tm) permajammer. Also the use of ECM makes your signature so big that anyone around sees where you are thus real life has it's FoF called Home-on-jam capability. ECM is merely a defensive measure to deceive your true location to the incoming threat thus minimizing damage. Now let's see in EVE. A cruiser sized vessel can permajam a large ship permanently if wishing so thus it would require helluva lot of power to run these modules to achieve the required signal strength. In EVE you have no worries about this which is a bit odd. Now let's take the Scorpion for example. It is a dedicated EW battleship. It should have the power and systems required to permajam almost any vessel of it's size and all below that, maybe more chance based on vessel above it's size. Now it is just more cost effective to get a few EW cruisers to do the job of a ship that is supposed to do it. Scorpion is basically a sitting duck without cover. Is this allright and balanced? Also what we lack in EVE is the ability of a radar to adjust to jamming by frequency hopping and "burning thru". Eventually it will get thru the jamming by changing frequency or increasing it's own power to increase pulse strenghth. Not likely to happen in EVE though, would be too complicated to do maybe. EW is good, but a bit way off atm in my opinion. It should be an asset that can turn the tide of combat, not making it a onesided slugfest. For those flamers out there, I am working with military applications so I know something about the issue Just adapt is the slogan of EVE I think..or die. ----------------------------------------------------- ~Let Chaos Entwine On Defenceless Soil~
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:49:00 - [49] Edited by: Garmon on 08/05/2008 06:50:21 nm, I'm vaaary tired __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
Jaedar Metron Digital Greed	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:52:00 - [50] ECM is alot better now than it was, at least you don't see everyone and their families plus the neighbours dog using it

Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:54:00 - [51] Damn I seem to have hit a nerve... I was only asking if it was a common occurance across the Eve Uni ps. Nice to see the noob corp fail crew couldn't resist a reply
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.08 06:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? I got sick of being ECMed all day long, so now I just fly around with four of my gangmates in Falcons. It's great. They uncloak one, we uncloak one, they uncloak another, we do the same. If they bring more than four Falcons, we pop a cyno and the carrier hot drop war begins. It sucks that this is what PVP has been reduced to. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.05.08 09:39:00 - [53] i know the flacon is the new i win buton in eve :) it disables 2 to 3 guys in a fight. only thing you do is put one at 100km and start jamming :p lowers the dps allot or ever prerma jamm if theres only 1 target. but its not totaly unbeatable. ive had a few times where i was fighting a phobos in a broadsword and a falcon showed up 100km away from station. ofcouse i deagressed, but i also asked a friend to warp to station at 100km when he came in to local. before i knew it i saw a white flash and the fight of phobos vs broadsword continued... ofcouse he didnt want to fihgt anymore and tryed to dock up. --- Somebody needs a hug!
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2008.05.08 09:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Golden Helmet First they whined about jammers, and CCP nerfed them. Then they whined about nos, and CCP made nos a useless waste of space fit only for refining. Then they whined about damps, and CCP nerfed them. Now their whining about jammers again. Do I see a pattern here? I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:35:00 - [55] Edited by: Akiba Penrose on 08/05/2008 10:35:41 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... Falcons is the main reason why we fly in Nano-gangs. If we have a 3-5 man BS gang,, and run into a similar gang but with Falcon(s), we're pretty much ****. Hence we fly nano gangs instead,, so we can gtfo when they start de cloaking.
Antarus Lars	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:40:00 - [56] Yeah.. its the key problem. Falcons are everywhere cuz of a few key factors. 1 = People dont like losing ships 2 = Fear of other players having recon support and being unable to get out (jamm there falcon to keep it even) 3 = Fear of teh blob (you engange, then see the stargate start flashing.. only thing thats gonna save you is a falcon jamm -> warp out) 4 = Wanting an easy win All of which are hard to argue against... as we have all thought it.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:44:00 - [57] i haven't seen many solo pvpers go around with a falcon.I should imagine it sucks big time but meh.
Neal Cassady Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:44:00 - [58] falcons may be overpowered, but ive run a bunch off and killed a few with well fit nano ships. best argument for nano ships is that they are the most commonly used counter to falcons. sniping bs could be even better, but no one uses them...
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:56:00 - [59] You guys are missing the point. The point is that the guy with the falcon alt failed miserably when he should've gotten an easy kill. It is bad, lots of falcons around, but at least it isn't as bad as ECM multispecs used to be, god I hated those days, "the good ol' unbalanced stupid game mechanic days" I call 'em
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Everyone Dies ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame. the word lame is lame Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:15:00 - [61] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 08/05/2008 11:15:25 Originally by: Amastat No - I really mean it. I'm going to petition CCP and request they nerf the crap out of ECM and Nanos so we can see how long it takes for the Minmatar playerbase to *** and beg CCP to restore the ECM and nanos to original specs. Minmatar base speed is great. If you nerf nano's it's every other race that will suffer. The Vagabond will be king once more. Originally by:** Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:29:00 - [62] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Minmatar base speed is great. If you nerf nano's it's every other race that will suffer. The Vagabond will be king once more. Yeah, i agree. Nano gangs is not the real problem, they are just a symptom indicating something might be wrong. In low sec the falcons is very dominating atm,, they can have over 200km range and take out multiple ships from the battle. Nano ships is the only way to effectivly deal with them imo.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:41:00 - [63] Once again..., A NERF IS A SUGGESTED CHANGE TO THE GAME AND BELONGS IN IDEA'S AND DISCUSSION..., cry cry cry little Clarice..., cry cry cry. I promise you it is possible to have an intelligent reasoned chat about things without crying nerf all the bloody time. Don't you bore yourself? Do you find yourself drifting off to sleep to the sound and wit of your own dull banter? Please stop whinging and complete at least 2 of the followng self help initiatives:- 1. Quit and give me your stuff 2. Play more WoW as you clearly have an account. 3. Get some cosmetic surgery so at least it looks like you have some balls. 4. Stop applying fake tan, i'm bored of disguises. 5. Write into the daily (insert paper here) perhaps you're confusing us with someone who gives a shutting fick. Oh and you should only go out solo as anything more might be unfair on your target. Make sure you post your setup in local before engaging so both parties can perfectly match each other. Lock all gates into system to ensure 'fairness' .... hey presto the nerfers have ruined another game. 1. They're only pixels. 2. It's not real money. 3. Tatoo points one and two backwards on your forehead and look in your vanity mirror before EVER posting again on this fair forum. Thankyou for your time. __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:45:00 - [64] Tzar you just made your self look like a complete ******. __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:04:00 - [65] Originally by: The Tzar Once again..., A NERF IS A SUGGESTED CHANGE TO THE GAME AND BELONGS IN IDEA'S AND DISCUSSION..., cry cry cry little Clarice..., cry cry cry. I promise you it is possible to have an intelligent reasoned chat about things without crying nerf all the bloody time. Don't you bore yourself? Do you find yourself drifting off to sleep to the sound and wit of your own dull banter? Please stop whinging and complete at least 2 of the followng self help initiatives:- 1. Quit and give me your stuff 2. Play more WoW as you clearly have an account. 3. Get some cosmetic surgery so at least it looks like you have some balls. 4. Stop applying fake tan, i'm bored of disguises. 5. Write into the daily (insert paper here) perhaps you're confusing us with someone who gives a shutting fick. Oh and you should only go out solo as anything more might be unfair on your target. Make sure you post your setup in local before engaging so both parties can perfectly match each other. Lock all gates into system to ensure 'fairness' .... hey presto the nerfers have ruined another game. 1. They're only pixels. 2. It's not real money. 3. Tatoo points one and two backwards on your forehead and look in your vanity mirror before EVER posting again on this fair forum. Thankyou for your time. May I suggest this; link
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:15:00 - [66] Falcon is fine tbh. ECCM is there for a reason, same as we have sensor boosters to counter damps and Tracking comps to counter disruptors. Whenever I take out my BS for some sort of gang engagement I fit ECCM, I make sure most of my guys do the same as well. Will some of us still get jammed? Yes! Will we get jammed as much? No! Sacrificing one mid more than halves the enemies ability to lock you down. Solo you are always going to be pretty goosed by a Falcon, same as if they bring a Blackbird, Kitsune, Scorp, Rook, Keres, Celestis, Arazu, Lach, Arbi, Curse, Sentinal, Pilgrim etc etc. All of the racial EWAR ships spell some hurt for a player if one of them turns up as you are fighting others. Falcon just appears to be the current FOTM, but by no means does it need a nurf. Fighting in a gang, easy? Most of the time unless you are engaging an established camp the Falcon pilot will not have a chance to make a decent BM and he will probably be at range from a celestial object. Have a gang mate in reserve in a nano ship warp on top of him. He won't know WTF has happened and will melt. Simple. I find it very rare for a decent 1vs1 to occur in Eve, unless agreed by an honourable party like myself, simple fact is, people don't like losing ships, people like making other things explode. You will always be on the lookout to gain a one up on someone else and reduce the risk to yourself and your gang, be it with ECM, nanos, capships, whatever. Get real, and get some friends. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:16:00 - [67] Originally by: The Tzar Once again..., A NERF IS A SUGGESTED CHANGE TO THE GAME AND BELONGS IN IDEA'S AND DISCUSSION..., cry cry cry little Clarice..., cry cry cry. I promise you it is possible to have an intelligent reasoned chat about things without crying nerf all the bloody time. Don't you bore yourself? Do you find yourself drifting off to sleep to the sound and wit of your own dull banter? Please stop whinging and complete at least 2 of the followng self help initiatives:- 1. Quit and give me your stuff 2. Play more WoW as you clearly have an account. 3. Get some cosmetic surgery so at least it looks like you have some balls. 4. Stop applying fake tan, i'm bored of disguises. 5. Write into the daily (insert paper here) perhaps you're confusing us with someone who gives a shutting fick. Oh and you should only go out solo as anything more might be unfair on your target. Make sure you post your setup in local before engaging so both parties can perfectly match each other. Lock all gates into system to ensure 'fairness' .... hey presto the nerfers have ruined another game. 1. They're only pixels. 2. It's not real money. 3. Tatoo points one and two backwards on your forehead and look in your vanity mirror before EVER posting again on this fair forum. Thankyou for your time. lmaooo !! My brother.... Love you and miss you darling one
tiller MAFIA	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:24:00 - [68] my alt sits in a falcon cloaked 180k from gate if im camping solo... it's a good insurance policy so anyone who comes and has a go, will lose lock and let me run :)... either that or I'll just kill them
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon ~~alt's~~alts are annoying, and no Ii'm not moaning because I i lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact Ii couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, Ii undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush? He engages and fires away. I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight Ii was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? Also in the title "falcon's" >>> "Falcons" You're welcome. stupid character limit
B0rn2KiLL DEATHFUNK R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Mikko Alatalo Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy. i bet Sun Tzu didn't smack his enemies though. which make our times a tad different. those two smacked, and unvailed their trump card too quickly. it stinks of fail to me. --- Originally by: Oveur It's important to understand that EVE is a "PvP" focused game

Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:17:00 - [71] Dont nerf the falcon, boost the rook! Change its bonus to 40% per level so it has a chance to be as popular as the falcon
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:04:00 - [72] Originally by: B0rn2KiLL Originally by: Mikko Alatalo Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy. i bet Sun Tzu didn't smack his enemies though. which make our times a tad different. those two smacked, and unvailed their trump card too quickly. it stinks of fail to me. but theres no respawns in rl! or docking up
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:38:00 - [73] Hi my name is Calypso and I fly recons. Actually, I fly all the recons with pretty much MAX electronics skills. I have litterally 1000s of solo, group, 2man, blob, fleet kills. Your more than welcome to check battleclinic :) First off, fit eccm û it does work. 2nd, FOF missiles are your friend. To me a falcon is a force multiplier. Normally I camp a 00 pipe with rapier + falcon combo, someone jumps through I engage with my rapier û I engage ANYTHING and everything that jumps throughà Even if I know I canÆt break its tank. What I wait for û is his buddiesà if there is something I can actually kill in the rapier.. I jam everyone else and fight that dude. You can check the ENH Killboard and see some of the fights I have been in over the last few weeks. 8 on 3 vs Destiny, or an epic 9 on 3 vs ATF. (rapier vaga Falcon vs everyone in K8 local) ECM is NOT overpowered your just not fitting your ships to counter it. Let me do something for you: How to counter: Speed: Fit Damps and Webs (WHAT?), Yes they are nerfed BUT most nano ships have poor lock range. If you damp them they have to move closer and hopefully into web range. Here is another bad thing to do to recons: fit neuts on your BS and have a rapier cloaked nearby. Neut, uncloak, web and the BS shoot the nano ship. ECM: ECCM. Do you realize how hard it is to jam a 40point BS? I have MAX EW skills and it takes 3 Racials to ôpermaö jam. Or just fly caldari in pvp (lulz) Drake w. FOF vs Falcon + rapier = Me running away. I dunno, like usual the post will get the ôI canÆt always waste a slot for ECCM, it breaks my tankö. Anyways, have a good day. CW
Elanra	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath I dunno, like usual the post will get the ôI canÆt always waste a slot for ECCM, it breaks my tankö. Interestingly enough, no one complains about tanks being overpowered.
kessah The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:09:00 - [75] Edited by: kessah on 08/05/2008 15:11:09 fact is to knock a battleship out of a fight permenatly it should take all you mids like it takes all ur mids in an arazu / lach... imho should be like it was, cycle jamming before the ecm change. Really use to have to work at jamming then.
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:10:00 - [76] Originally by: Elanra Interestingly enough, no one complains about tanks being overpowered. Heh ya, tell me about it. Tackled a drake last night in my rapier (with 15 of his buddies next door) I was hoping for someone to come and help him. Ya, he just logged. Me and a falcon sat there for 10 mins laying into him (Yeah! for crap DPS) before he finally died. Personally the nerf that hurt the most was the NOS nerf. I loved my curse :(
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:14:00 - [77] Originally by: kessah fact is to knock a battleship out of a fight permenatly it should take all you mids like it takes all ur mids in an arazu / lach... Arazu/lach has DPS to offset this. You engange different targets when running Arazu/rapier combo. 200 dps from your rapier + ecm with the falcon and being able to engage a 5-6 man gang and kill one. OR 200 dps rapier + 200 dps Arazu = Dead battleship. If I caught you on a gate, which would your perfer? Its a time/effort/patience thing I guess. I could do the Burn Edan thing and use a cloaking/damp(or ecm) Raven + rapier. hmmm that gives me an idea.
EinaruS The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:26:00 - [78] condoms may not provide the same experience but the reprocussions are not as dire if you didnt use it. - A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:28:00 - [79] I PvP'd this brutor chick without a falcon and my **** fell off
Flipout Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:42:00 - [80] Originally by: Tregaron Tbh EW ships are now factors in every gang it's like oh lets go kill this 6 man gang with our 30 man gang oh wait we need 10 EW ships first. yeh i lost my bhaalgorn to a 30 man gang who brought 3x kitsune, 3x falcons, 2x rooks and 2x blackbirds least i would like to have was a nice fight before going pop but no can't lock anything can't tank 30 hostiles and sentrys it's just wrong. i mean you jump in say a golem or kronos only takes 1 blackbird and a damage dealer and ur feked. a 7mil cruiser can mess up a 1bil+ ship easy as pie. kill the blackbird few secs l8ter he comes back in another. yeh alright for some peeps to say fit ECCM but it don't work wen your fightin gangs with 5+ ew ships. oh well lolz Ever thought for a moment that it wasn't "Alright guys, lets bring as many jamming ships as we can" but a "well, I trained up for this ship and I feel like flying it, so im going to bring it out"?

Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:59:00 - [81] I always see them die, ECCM snipegeddon and/or tempest in gang makes for a tough time for a paper ship. Black Hand.
Dianeces Minmatar The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:27:00 - [82] Originally by: Everyone Dies ccp should really reverse the boost to falcons. ecm is making this game really lame. +1 Everyone Dies terriblepostÖ
Darth Syphils Amarr Noshikkan	Posted - 2008.05.08 20:02:00 - [83] 1 falcon alt is not that bad. I seen a guy using 2 logistics 1 huggin and a rook. All 1 guys manning those ships! To the people moaning about ECM and the falcon just remember it cant realy solo anything unlike all the other race force recons, only has ECM bonuses and no drone bay.
Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.08 21:54:00 - [84] Well as far as I'm concerned CCP can do what they will with ECM/Recon's/etc, I'm doing what I will to get what I pay for and thats PVP... if you want to join in your more than welcome No bull**** PVP
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.05.08 22:59:00 - [85] I think it's a shame CCP nerfed damps + Nos, recon gangs used to be epic. Kill slowly, sure, but covertly, and be able to slowly take one target down, whilst keeping a great deal more out of the fight, then moving on to the next target. Boosting the bonuses on the amarr recons and gallente recons is the way forward! I used to love my lach's, now I have 3 which never get undocked. The tackle lach is useless now too, due to HIC's! MORE RECON LOVE PLEASE!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.08 23:16:00 - [86] So uh. Gangs that are made up of a mix of ships, are beating gangs of just one type of ship. That sounds almost like it's functioning as designed. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.08 23:37:00 - [87] I'm a falcon pilot with a PVP alt...? ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Riaz Qaadir	Posted - 2008.05.08 23:47:00 - [88] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath Hi my name is Calypso and I fly recons. Actually, I fly all the recons with pretty much MAX electronics skills. I have litterally 1000s of solo, group, 2man, blob, fleet kills. Your more than welcome to check battleclinic :) First off, fit eccm û it does work. 2nd, FOF missiles are your friend. To me a falcon is a force multiplier. Normally I camp a 00 pipe with rapier + falcon combo, someone jumps through I engage with my rapier û I engage ANYTHING and everything that jumps throughà Even if I know I canÆt break its tank. What I wait for û is his buddiesà if there is something I can actually kill in the rapier.. I jam everyone else and fight that dude. You can check the ENH Killboard and see some of the fights I have been in over the last few weeks. 8 on 3 vs Destiny, or an epic 9 on 3 vs ATF. (rapier vaga Falcon vs everyone in K8 local) ECM is NOT overpowered your just not fitting your ships to counter it. Let me do something for you: How to counter: Speed: Fit Damps and Webs (WHAT?), Yes they are nerfed BUT most nano ships have poor lock range. If you damp them they have to move closer and hopefully into web range. Here is another bad thing to do to recons: fit neuts on your BS and have a rapier cloaked nearby. Neut, uncloak, web and the BS shoot the nano ship. ECM: ECCM. Do you realize how hard it is to jam a 40point BS? I have MAX EW skills and it takes 3 Racials to ôpermaö jam. Or just fly caldari in pvp (lulz) Drake w. FOF vs Falcon + rapier = Me running away. I dunno, like usual the post will get the ôI canÆt always waste a slot for ECCM, it breaks my tankö. Anyways, have a good day. CW When your using 4 combat ships and 4 falcons you know there's something wrong. A ship that can take out pretty much a minimium of 2 ships every 20 seconds so thats double or larger sized targets you can reasonably engage. If you fit ECCM then your reducing the counters to nano ships as you've just stated damps+webs (with heavy neuts). If things get to hairy the nano ships can pretty much always be able to run away and can not feel bad because "we got blobbed". If you don't get blobbed its pretty much a easy win. This is more about the more = better style eve has than anything. TBH as a player with a falcon capable pilot i'd rather ECM range be slashed to make them get more involved and more risk rather than 200km range easy mode boring ship thats pretty much a requirement for every gang.
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:20:00 - [89] I submit, its nano****z.....not the falcon.. According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Commodore Spade	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:37:00 - [90] Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the ** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... Maybe its just me, but doesn't nerfing everything leave you where you started? ( Only weaker? ) ** just boost everything else up, more epic ^_^

Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.09 01:20:00 - [91] Edited by: Aadi Grox on 09/05/2008 01:24:26 edit: this is completely off topic about falcons being overpowered
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 01:22:00 - [92] No, damps were nerfed because ships not specialized for dampening could still dampen effectively, like 2 years ago when every one fitted multispec jammers. Not saying the Falcon doesn't need a fix though, it does. __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.09 03:11:00 - [93] Originally by: Riaz Qaadir When your using 4 combat ships and 4 falcons you know there's something wrong. A ship that can take out pretty much a minimium of 2 ships every 20 seconds so thats double or larger sized targets you can reasonably engage. If you fit ECCM then your reducing the counters to nano ships as you've just stated damps+webs (with heavy neuts). What?! You can't fit to counter everything? Impossible! Nerf this now. Falcons are paper thin, drones and f.o.f:s still work on them, and ECCM works just fine, you just have a gang where you have your tackler, damage dealer, anti-ecm ship etc. If you use that type of tactic instead of believing you should be able to fit all tackle and damage and that's the only way combat should work, then you're just looking at it the wrong way. Falcons are very effective, but with how common they are it should be pretty easy to setup your gang for the occasion. Black Hand.
The Icefox Gallente Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:26:00 - [94] Originally by: Mikko Alatalo Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy. The thread ended with the above post. Seriously, people bring to a fight what they have because they want to win. People need to get over this misconception that "fair" is even a concept that should be applied to combat. "fair" is for tv game shows and little league, not for piracy, corporate greed, empire building, and crushing not just your opponents military forces but their very souls. Bored during down time? Try this.
omglollolol	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:11:00 - [95] Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Hey, I have a great idea! Lets make all the ships made for the role ECM useless! I'm for buffing damp boats btw, they need a buff so you people **** about them as well since its not fair using ewar!* 1) rook 2) I flew falcons before the buff, they were fine And whatnot,..a fairytale!, ...delete all ships from the game and lets play with sticks and stones instead, shall we... but give us no shields because then it'll render our attack useless. Unless we have a big ass rolling rock that no shield can stop, however I see some carebears scream IMBA!!.. so you gotta implement a big ass rock stopping shield... (story evolves)... (several thousand years later) .. that ION satelitte blaster is too powerfull! Our force field cannot handle it, someone screams PLEASE NERF... (story goes on)... (back to before) ... several battleships at a gate, storm of fire rages and then stops then rages again then stops again, as jammers are doing their precious work... someone screamed NERF PLEASE.... and desperate voices echoed through the space and time.. when the night gets quiet and you listen carefully, you can still hear 'em,... kids
Lord TYMAN	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:17:00 - [96] Dear Thread, I've been using a falcon alt in pvp from way before the recent buff. With the recent rise in popularity of nano ships like the Ishtar - falcons are pretty vunerable. All it takes is a quick MWD in his direction and he'll soon buzz off. Nearly all of my falcon losses are from vaga's or ishtars or even cepters breaking away from the fleet, and getting on top of me (doesnt take long to mwd 150km) Thanks.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:33:00 - [97] Doesn't take long to warp to your other bookmark in the grid either __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:59:00 - [98] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 09/05/2008 10:59:36 Originally by: Garmon Doesn't take long to warp to your other bookmark in the grid either Fighting a prepared enemy in his domain (or known territory) usually does that. I dunno, maybe try fighting the enemy somewhere where it's not obvious they got multiple prepared bookmarks might help? If you chose to jump in, it's good to have contingencies. Such as an ECCM sniper in gang, or a domi/ishtar with t2 sentries. Black Hand.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:04:00 - [99] Originally by: Garmon Tzar you just made your self look like a complete ******. Doesn't matter, my name isn't really The Tzar. As long as I made myself look like an r'tard then I've got no-one to blame but myself How do you know I don't aspire to be one eh? Maybe you've insulted me with your expletives, maybe you have a petition coming your way hmmm? Or maybe you're a whiner not an adapter yourself? Live or die Garmon, it's time to play a GAME. __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:05:00 - [100] Originally by: Garmon Doesn't take long to warp to your other bookmark in the grid either yup,, we have encountered those several times. I can see that the 200km range is needed for 0.0 warfare where Falcons support sniper fleets. But in small gang warfare this leads to nano gangs,, since there is no way of reaching out 200km on a short range fitted BS. Or you could just fill up with more Falcons to counter Falcons. It is not the ECM that is the problem as i see it,, but the extreeme range paired with a cloak.

Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:18:00 - [101] Edited by: Garmon on 09/05/2008 11:20:24 Originally by: The Tzar Originally by: Garmon Tzar you just made your self look like a complete ******. Doesn't matter, my name isn't really The Tzar. As long as I made myself look like an r'tard then I've got no-one to blame but myself How do you know I don't aspire to be one eh? Maybe you've insulted me with your expletives, maybe you have a petition coming your way hmmm? Or maybe you're a whiner not an adapter yourself? Live or die Garmon, it's time to play a GAME. Your earlier post made it seem that every fotm that happens should be left as it is, I'm actually a falcon pilot my self, well I have an alt that flys one, I usually only use him when necessary, but I'm not biased, however I only use it in small gang engagements. I'm not sure, but I would presume it's pretty balanced in fleet engagements in 0.0 because of sniping bs's, and nano gangs, but in roaming gangs, sniping battleships isn't very viable (and why change your whole fleet just to counter one type of recon, when you can bring your own falcon to jamm theirs ) It doesn't take long to make different bookmarks either, before you go on a roaming op, you should try to make all of the bookmarks necessary before hand, the most common counter to falcons in low sec is nano gangs/another falcon There's not really much of a reason to go for a rook over a falcon...maybe if the Falcon didn't get the optimal bonus it might be balanced, or at least more than it is now I don't need to adapt, since I already have the fotm __________________________________ Me being an hero in my battle boat
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:48:00 - [102] Originally by: Garmon Edited by: Garmon on 09/05/2008 11:20:24 Originally by: The Tzar Originally by: Garmon Tzar you just made your self look like a complete ******. Doesn't matter, my name isn't really The Tzar. As long as I made myself look like an r'tard then I've got no-one to blame but myself How do you know I don't aspire to be one eh? Maybe you've insulted me with your expletives, maybe you have a petition coming your way hmmm? Or maybe you're a whiner not an adapter yourself? Live or die Garmon, it's time to play a GAME. Your earlier post made it seem that every fotm that happens should be left as it is, I'm actually a falcon pilot my self, well I have an alt that flys one, I usually only use him when necessary, but I'm not biased, however I only use it in small gang engagements. I'm not sure, but I would presume it's pretty balanced in fleet engagements in 0.0 because of sniping bs's, and nano gangs, but in roaming gangs, sniping battleships isn't very viable (and why change your whole fleet just to counter one type of recon, when you can bring your own falcon to jamm theirs ) It doesn't take long to make different bookmarks either, before you go on a roaming op, you should try to make all of the bookmarks necessary before hand, the most common counter to falcons in low sec is nano gangs/another falcon There's not really much of a reason to go for a rook over a falcon...maybe if the Falcon didn't get the optimal bonus it might be balanced, or at least more than it is now I don't need to adapt, since I already have the fotm Good sport Garmon, glad ur playing along with me I've never petitioned anyone nor will do, just jokin' At the moment there are enough FOTM's for everyone to have a leet ship of somekind whether it be ishtar, vaga, falcon, zealot and to a lesser extent curse, capships etc. If I didn't see falcons getting taken out all the time I think I too as a pilot of one would agree that they are overpowered. But they can be forced off, counter ECM'd and sometimes destroyed. A cloaked falcon is no good when a DDD comes along or even a 20km/s crow (5 seconds and its nearly on u) with fighers assigned. I feel safer in many other ships than the falcon despite it being FOTM. Not many people are willing to sacrifice a midslot for ECCM but it works wonders if everyone does it in gang. ECM is chance based, if everyone fits ECCM you have killed that chance by a large factor. Even better if you can have some force recons with projected ECCM. Everything has a counter, it's just how far you're willing to sacrifice other counters already installed. __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:50:00 - [103] Finally you post something that isn't complete garbage __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:57:00 - [104] Originally by: Garmon I'm actually a falcon pilot my self, well I have an alt that flys one, I usually only use him when necessary, but I'm not biased, however I only use it in small gang engagements. I did battle with your rupture in my thorax in mara a while back. Pretty even you would have thought, but no, soon as you hit 50% armor the falcon decloaks to blind this particular warrior so he can no longer use his sword against the evil pirate. Hardly a fair fight, Garmon!
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:10:00 - [105] I was losing the fight, what would have you done? __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Riaz Qaadir	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin What?! You can't fit to counter everything? Impossible! Nerf this now. Falcons are paper thin, drones and f.o.f:s still work on them, and ECCM works just fine, you just have a gang where you have your tackler, damage dealer, anti-ecm ship etc. If you use that type of tactic instead of believing you should be able to fit all tackle and damage and that's the only way combat should work, then you're just looking at it the wrong way. Falcons are very effective, but with how common they are it should be pretty easy to setup your gang for the occasion. You can fit to counter everything its called the Falcon. You know fine well FOF's will hit anything and only the longest range missiles will hit them. Drones? Sure mine love going further than 100km... oh thats right they can't. Fit all tackle and damage?!? who the hell said that? All I said was: to tackle you need to target. to target you need eccm. if you fit eccm you fit less tackle. Use a anti-ecm ship? Such as another falcon? since damps are well into falloff at the range ecm can operate. ECM is still the best counter to ECM.
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:13:00 - [107] Originally by: Garmon I was losing the fight, what would have you done? Died honorably, said 'gf' and got my pod out pronto. Thing is I had you pretty much perma-jammed with my ecm drones which is why you felt you had to play the 'get out of jail free card' and decloak a falcon. Thouroghly unfair in my opinion.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Planks Originally by: Garmon I was losing the fight, what would have you done? Died honorably, said 'gf' and got my pod out pronto. Thing is I had you pretty much perma-jammed with my ecm drones which is why you felt you had to play the 'get out of jail free card' and decloak a falcon. Thouroghly unfair in my opinion. But un falcon cost 150m, should be allowed to take care of a 5m cruiser IMO __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:21:00 - [109] Are you saying my thorax was worth less than your falcon?? That was the first cruiser i ever broawt and i haved manage to keep it alive with ecm drones saving me. You obviesly have enough money to by falcons but the thorax cost me lots of money so to me it was a big loss in an anfair fight.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:24:00 - [110] So your saying some one with 500 trillion isk in a Nyx shouldnt be able to killyou? __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat

Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:29:00 - [111] Originally by: Garmon So your saying some one with 500 trillion isk in a Nyx shouldnt be able to killyou? Not if he jams me with a falcon, no
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:35:00 - [112] Originally by: Planks Originally by: Garmon So your saying some one with 500 trillion isk in a Nyx shouldnt be able to killyou? Not if he jams me with a falcon, no How is that balanced __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:54:00 - [113] Originally by: Garmon Originally by: Planks Originally by: Garmon So your saying some one with 500 trillion isk in a Nyx shouldnt be able to killyou? Not if he jams me with a falcon, no How is that balanced Cos he would be jamming me with a falcon preventing me from warping off
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:00:00 - [114] You're mixing up a ECM jammer with a warp disruptor? __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:01:00 - [115] LOL dont you even know how to fit a falcon?
omglollolol	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:07:00 - [116] LOL do you?
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:09:00 - [117] Originally by: Planks LOL dont you even know how to fit a falcon? Not with a warp disruptor __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:11:00 - [118] FUK U DIK!!!!!
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:12:00 - [119] Originally by: Planks FUK U DIK!!!!! I'll get Hammerfall Industries on you __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:22:00 - [120] Get your "friend" to "wardeck" us __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat

Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:35:00 - [121] HAHAHHAHAHA Oh my God Garmon - arguing with your own alts certainly brightened up my day at work. Thanks! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:36:00 - [122] He's not my alt __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:37:00 - [123] THE NEXT PERSON WHO SAYS I AM AN ALT OF GARMON IS GOING TO GET A KNUCKLE SANDWICH (IN GAME)
Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited CORE.	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:08:00 - [124] Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 07/05/2008 22:53:08 I notice its mostly minnie players whining, I don't blame them though, Minmatar have the worst sensor strengths in the game. A lot of minnies whine about the idea of a speed nerf though because "It's like the only thing we got going for us". Perhaps you all should think about your own whiny feelings about speed when you cry for another ECM nerf - you cannot deny how worthless the Caldari fleet would be in PvP once that happens. In other words, if you can't live with the idea of speed nerfs, you have no right demanding everything else but your nanohacs be nerfed. Actually - it may be more simple if CCP just beat the **** out of ECM and nanos/od's with the nerf bat. Let's get them to do that, or will the cry-much back down now? No - REALLY, I mean it. If you guys can live without a speed nerfaggedon, by ALL MEANS - the Caldari can live with another ECM nerfaggedon. Try me... Agree why not screw up all Caldari Ships with more nerfs then we all can fly minmatar ships and fire on eachother in 9700 m/s, and CCP can gimme my money back. But those who says the nerf Whiners always get what they wants are correct. CCP how do u explain, almost none pvp ships in deepspace from non-minmatar races?! You have a Big explanations to come up with here! If you nerf ECM more it is a Scandal. Plan N "I cut your head off and put it in my TV-Set"
Vagra Minmatar Gods Unwanted Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:15:00 - [125] Inorder to fly minmatar at the moment you need to have 2 things going for you. Balls the size of britney spears blackhole and a twisted sense of playing anygame in Super Hard mode. Thats why i love my race so much. Caldari peeps are just a bunch of ECM weilding, missile firing minmatar wannabes who couldn't make the grade. Now you'll have to excuse me while i go poke some guys eyes out for touching my car. ---------------- ----------------
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:16:00 - [126] All the other forms of EW got a scripting nerf/feature. How about balancing ecm jammers so they have a range or strength script. With range script it could perhaps reduce the falcons potency to that of a scorpion, with strength script it would have the power of the falcon currently, but only when it is within drone range. The rest of the balancing could be done with the ship bonus so the rook, scorpion and even griffin arent nerfed.
Vagra Minmatar Gods Unwanted Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:19:00 - [127] Originally by: Planks All the other forms of EW got a scripting nerf/feature. How about balancing ecm jammers so they have a range or strength script. With range script it could perhaps reduce the falcons potency to that of a scorpion, with strength script it would have the power of the falcon currently, but only when it is within drone range. The rest of the balancing could be done with the ship bonus so the rook, scorpion and even griffin arent nerfed. an easier solution is to just bin the race ---------------- ----------------
Planks	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:23:00 - [128] Gets my vote
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:41:00 - [129] Whenever I see a 2+ gang and report to corp what ships they have I always say "And expect a falcon" Cause its the common scenario. If you get into a 3v3+ fight and don't see a falcon you get surprised. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:42:00 - [130] Originally by: Planks THE NEXT PERSON WHO SAYS I AM AN ALT OF GARMON IS GOING TO GET A KNUCKLE SANDWICH (IN GAME) Not if I give you a swift kick to the nuts (in game). __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.

Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:39:00 - [131] Planks is an alt of Garmon. Knuckle sandwich plix. But srsly, another good bit of trollage. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:51:00 - [132] Originally by: Riaz Qaadir When your using 4 combat ships and 4 falcons you know there's something wrong. A ship that can take out pretty much a minimium of 2 ships every 20 seconds so thats double or larger sized targets you can reasonably engage. If you fit ECCM then your reducing the counters to nano ships as you've just stated damps+webs (with heavy neuts). If things get to hairy the nano ships can pretty much always be able to run away and can not feel bad because "we got blobbed". If you don't get blobbed its pretty much a easy win. This is more about the more = better style eve has than anything. TBH as a player with a falcon capable pilot i'd rather ECM range be slashed to make them get more involved and more risk rather than 200km range easy mode boring ship thats pretty much a requirement for every gang. You did read my post and all the others? If alliance chat says: X falcon X vaga X Rapier X falcon X falcon X scimitar SURE as hell your gonna take that group out, Without complaint. Besides, I only fly 2 ships, and one of them can jam upwards of 6 (not 2). Also, another solution: fly in pairs? Eve is not fair to say the least. Get a buddy in a keres while your in your mega travelling. Let me think of a good Domi fitting for you: ECCM, RSDII, RSDII, web, scram. Highs: Neuts. Lows moderate tank. That what I like to call a Calypso screwing setup. Damp my falcon, Neut my Rapier and put your light drones on it.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:24:00 - [133] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath Let me think of a good Domi fitting for you: ECCM, RSDII, RSDII, web, scram. Highs: Neuts. Lows moderate tank. That what I like to call a Calypso screwing setup. Damp my falcon, Neut my Rapier and put your light drones on it. A dominix has 96.25km lock range with max skills and gang bonus. With 2 sensor boosters youll have 234km. Max skilled remote sensor dampners have a optimal of 45km and 90km falloff. I dont think this is a sound tactic against Falcons,,
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:41:00 - [134] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath You did read my post and all the others? If alliance chat says: X falcon X vaga X Rapier X falcon X falcon X scimitar SURE as hell your gonna take that group out, Without complaint. Besides, I only fly 2 ships, and one of them can jam upwards of 6 (not 2). No, certainly we would tell people to right-click trash their ships and everyone fly ruptures, caracals and scythes. All to be fair against those who are too clueless to learn how to counter very common enemy tactics. Black Hand.
xenodia Gallente Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:00:00 - [135] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? Unless its a pre-arranged duel, there is no such thing as a fair fight in EVE. If youre in one, it means one side or the other screwed up. This signature space for rent
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:10:00 - [136] Basicly, what i'm reading out of this thread is this.... you people suck at killing Falcons. We kill them all the time, not that hard. Nanoships with drones, Eagles who come in after the fight starts, ECCM Rokh's, etc. etc. Here's one I also like to point out to you people who can't seem to think outside the box: A Flycatcher with Light FoF's. You don't need to lock the Falcon to tackle him or kill him, he sure can't kill you, and if he is 200km away from his gang, your FoF's won't have anything else to kill but him. Oh, yeah MM2 loves Falcons. Which means we know how to employ them, and we know their weaknesses.
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:24:00 - [137] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Calypso's Wrath Let me think of a good Domi fitting for you: ECCM, RSDII, RSDII, web, scram. Highs: Neuts. Lows moderate tank. That what I like to call a Calypso screwing setup. Damp my falcon, Neut my Rapier and put your light drones on it. A dominix has 96.25km lock range with max skills and gang bonus. With 2 sensor boosters youll have 234km. Max skilled remote sensor dampners have a optimal of 45km and 90km falloff. I dont think this is a sound tactic against Falcons,, I guess your expecting a perfectly even fight in eve. I guess in this situation you better hope that: a) I just warped to the same gate that you jumped in through (at 0) b) not stupid enough to engage a domi with both my recons at 0. By the time I warped my falcon out and back in at range my rapier would be dead. If I was already setup at range... Deploy drones and call for help. (<- please do this and tell them to come in ships i can kill. That and tell them to fit faction loot kthx)
Elanra	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:51:00 - [138] Originally by: F'lan Ker A fighter in real world has either an external pod for ECM or even airframe mounted in some cases. It can deceive incoming missiles to SOME degree or make it harder for the enemy to lock you with his radar(s), but no way is it a iWin (tm) permajammer. Also the use of ECM makes your signature so big that anyone around sees where you are thus real life has it's FoF called Home-on-jam capability. ECM is merely a defensive measure to deceive your true location to the incoming threat thus minimizing damage. I think that Home-on-jam T2 FoF missiles would be an interesting new feature. You fire them and they specifically target the ship that is jamming (or dampening) you.
Akiba Penrose Minmatar PAK	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:12:00 - [139] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath I guess your expecting a perfectly even fight in eve. I guess in this situation you better hope that: a) I just warped to the same gate that you jumped in through (at 0) b) not stupid enough to engage a domi with both my recons at 0. By the time I warped my falcon out and back in at range my rapier would be dead. If I was already setup at range... Deploy drones and call for help. (<- please do this and tell them to come in ships i can kill. That and tell them to fit faction loot kthx) I never expect a even fight,, and i dont fly domis either. Im just pointing out that your "Calypso screwing setup" fails on even the basic level at countering a long range Falcon.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:17:00 - [140] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Not one to whine much but 'PVP' pilots with Falcon alt's are annoying, and no I'm not moaning because I lost anything, my ship is intact. I'm just bemoaning the fact I couldn't have a decent scrap without the "intervention" He undocks, I undock, he mwd's away from the station... hmmmm why the sudden rush?, he engages and fires away, I scram him for a second and disengage immediatly thinking something is fishy, Falcon uncloaks and jams, I redock after a minute. Smack, smack, smack. Yawn. Him Harbinger, me Brutix... a pretty even fight I was willing to lose for a decent fight, he wanted it on easy mode. How common is this scenario? Unless its a pre-arranged duel, there is no such thing as a fair fight in EVE. If youre in one, it means one side or the other screwed up. I like your recon/nano gangs although from the crap i have seen it wouldn't have been a fair fight if you guys were all in t1 cruisers. heh Originally by: comment off of one of your kms I like that with this much ECCM, this is like the only kill we don't have a Falcon on.

Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:33:00 - [141] Omae, I predicted a 5 page lock, I concede I may be wrong this has gone ******* mad...
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:52:00 - [142] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Omae, I predicted a 5 page lock, I concede I may be wrong this has gone ******* mad... lunr how 2 sp377 __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:05:00 - [143] Originally by: Garmon Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Omae, I predicted a 5 page lock, I concede I may be wrong this has gone ***** mad... lunr how 2 sp377 I was speaking to someone called Omae Gaw'd who I was chatting to about this very thread, I know how to spell thank you very much. Now ** off
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:07:00 - [144] Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Originally by: Garmon Originally by: Johnny Gurkha Omae, I predicted a 5 page lock, I concede I may be wrong this has gone ***** mad... lunr how 2 sp377 I was speaking to someone called Omae Gaw'd who I was chatting to about this very thread, I know how to spell thank you very much. Now ** off NO U __________________________________ Vids about me raping peeps in my trusty battle boat
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:31:00 - [145] Originally by: Planks All the other forms of EW got a scripting nerf/feature. How about balancing ecm jammers so they have a range or strength script. With range script it could perhaps reduce the falcons potency to that of a scorpion, with strength script it would have the power of the falcon currently, but only when it is within drone range. The rest of the balancing could be done with the ship bonus so the rook, scorpion and even griffin arent nerfed. Sure fine. You'd be in favour of giving the Falcon a 50M63 drone bay like the Arazu as well, right? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Yesh Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:35:00 - [146] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Planks All the other forms of EW got a scripting nerf/feature. How about balancing ecm jammers so they have a range or strength script. With range script it could perhaps reduce the falcons potency to that of a scorpion, with strength script it would have the power of the falcon currently, but only when it is within drone range. The rest of the balancing could be done with the ship bonus so the rook, scorpion and even griffin arent nerfed. Sure fine. You'd be in favour of giving the Falcon a 50M63 drone bay like the Arazu as well, right? NO I 'INT WHAT A DAFT IDEA.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:42:00 - [147] Yesh raises a very interesting point
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.05.09 23:18:00 - [148] Originally by: Malcanis Sure fine. You'd be in favour of giving the Falcon a 50M63 drone bay like the Arazu as well, right? WTB Arazu with 50m3 drone bay. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Warrio Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:38:00 - [149] Originally by: Planks THE NEXT PERSON WHO SAYS I AM AN ALT OF GARMON IS GOING TO GET A KNUCKLE SANDWICH (IN GAME) Likewise for the next person who says that Loree (the ECM pilot that started this debate) is an alt of me (the '***' Harbinger pilot who started this debate). Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.10 04:28:00 - [150] planks is garmons alt duh!!!!

Omae Gaw'd Gallente VMF-214 Blacksheep Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.05.10 04:55:00 - [151] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton planks is garmons alt duh!!!! Not as much as Loree is Warrio's alt! Also, the 5th page lock failed.
Effy Muller	Posted - 2008.05.10 07:25:00 - [152] no I'M planks's alt!
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.10 09:02:00 - [153] Gimme falcon with a drone bay please. I really really want one. Actually, I just need a falcon again at the moment. crap. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
kessah The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.15 03:59:00 - [154] never see much scorpions, kitsunes, blackbirds or rooks well not in the mass extreme u see falcons. All trends lead to suspicion of in-balance, all trends need discouraging. Else we get everyone fitting and using the same predicatable combat over and over. Most that use falcons do so to protect themselves from having the main jammed.... Counter being jammed by jamming? The temptation to use that falcon to get yourself from being '**cked' in an straight up fight are too great and as the title of the thread is so aptly named, 'Condom of pvp'
omglollolol	Posted - 2008.05.15 10:24:00 - [155] Edited by: omglollolol on 15/05/2008 10:26:24 more whine..ehm wine please ,mkay? and did you notice that sometimes condoms don't do their job too well? ____________________________ You may not share my intellect, which might explain your disrespect, for all I say ;p _________________
Lavraen Minmatar Black Podding	Posted - 2008.05.15 10:55:00 - [156] Originally by: omglollolol Edited by: omglollolol on 15/05/2008 10:26:24 more whine..ehm wine please ,mkay? and did you notice that sometimes condoms don't do their job too well? Especially if you steal your mates wallet when he's comatose drunk, then put tiny holes in his condoms, put them back and then hear the story that his girfriend is pregnant the following week... err I meant Falcon, yeah good ship, slippery as an eel dropped in a bath of syrup. Lavraen


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