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Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 15:49:00 - [1] I'm looking into the idea of using a few alts logged of with the emergency warp point right on top of my bait. I'm not quite sure on how I want to do this, hence the thread. Would using say a Raven fitted with a passive tank, neuts, a scram and a web work as bait, then logging on with some simple tackler- thinking Huginn here(No need to cloak as you're logged off in the first place) - and a decent damage dealer say a geddon or mega. They can of course both be entirely pimped and ganked out as there's no real risk here. I know what I'll be facing before even logging on. I intended to use this in lowsec and not 0.0 hence no dictor. Thoughts? Ideas? How do you normally use logon traps?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:08:00 - [2] "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:10:00 - [3] Edited by: Qui Shon on 07/05/2008 16:10:21 You're seriously coming to this forum to ask for advice on logon traps, i.e. exploitations of game mechanics? Christ. Perhaps you're out to troll, and thought this would be funny?
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 07/05/2008 16:10:21 You're seriously coming to this forum to ask for advice on logon traps, i.e. exploitations of game mechanics? Christ. Perhaps you're out to troll, and thought this would be funny? Not at all, it's not an exploit. Might be a tactic not gladly looked upon, but it's a confirmed and accepted valid strategy. And yes I am looking for ideas to put it to pratice.
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:44:00 - [5] Simplest tactic in the world. - Set out bait. - Wait for your target. - Log on whichever dps dealer you want. - xxx - Profit (Only thing you need to watch out for is whatever reinforcements your targets might have) ------------------------------------------ Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
shiro kiu	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 07/05/2008 16:10:21 You're seriously coming to this forum to ask for advice on logon traps, i.e. exploitations of game mechanics? Christ. Perhaps you're out to troll, and thought this would be funny? Nobody crys about carebears logging off in 0.0. Its a valid tactic.
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Madla Mafia Simplest tactic in the world. - Set out bait. - Wait for your target. - Log on whichever dps dealer you want. - xxx - Profit (Only thing you need to watch out for is whatever reinforcements your targets might have) Indeed, but I reckon the bait to be somewhat slow, hence you'd probably want something a bit better at tackling logging in aswell. As mentioned in 0.0 this would most likely be a dictor, for lowsec I reckon a Rapier/Huginn/Hyena. Though for bait, do you have any better ideas than mine? Any way to hold them in place? Any ways to get a ship to emergency warp in the direction you want so that they don't land 15-30k off bait?
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.07 17:05:00 - [8] Firstly, you should know that log-on traps, while not technically considered an "exploit" are frowned upon in general by the EVE community. I personally do not condone log-on or log-off tactics except in the most extreme cases. Secondly, if you are going to be baiting with something as powerful as a Raven, why not just fit it for PVP? A PvP-solo setup raven is a monster when piloted properly, you shouldn't need to rely on alts. If you are gonna use alts to create a log-on trap, might I recommend battle-badgers or similar pvp setup haulers? Create 5 alts, put them in cheap indy's with a single civilian gun each just for the hilarity factor. This is a log-on trap I would condone. -- Don't harsh my mellow
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Wannabehero Firstly, you should know that log-on traps, while not technically considered an "exploit" are frowned upon in general by the EVE community. I personally do not condone log-on or log-off tactics except in the most extreme cases. Secondly, if you are going to be baiting with something as powerful as a Raven, why not just fit it for PVP? A PvP-solo setup raven is a monster when piloted properly, you shouldn't need to rely on alts. If you are gonna use alts to create a log-on trap, might I recommend battle-badgers or similar pvp setup haulers? Create 5 alts, put them in cheap indy's with a single civilian gun each just for the hilarity factor. This is a log-on trap I would condone. That right there, piloted properly, is the reason. It's far easier just grabbing your average monthold from Motsu and let him do it, or spend the three weeks yourself. Why a raven? Because they're notoriously known to be flown badly. If I'm going to fly it myself, I will have to use several clients at once, wich will make most things somewhat hard - including piloting ships properly. Battlebadgers wouldn't really do the trick as the victim would have plenty of time to leave before they even arrived let alone got in range and targetted. They wouldn't really work as bait either since they pretty much pop instantly(or at the very least before you drop out of de-emergency warp) to anything larger than a frigate. I'd personally consider the tactic despicable, however since it's endorsed, I see no reason not to use it, more people to use it, the bigger the problem, the more urgent a fix gets. That said, this isn't supposed to be a thread about CCP and the communities support of logontraps or not, it's simply a thread about how they're best executed. Tips and tricks and gangsetups.
Crusix Bargoth Amarr The Forgotten Desciples	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:33:00 - [10] Something tells me the reason you need to multi-client and use the most lame tactic to pvp is because you don't have any friends in game. Perhaps if you make some friends you will see that live pilots killing people is much more effective then your 3 box log on trap. But you probably aren't the best at PvP either, and there for need to do this to get a kill. If you have a char that can fly a Huginn....why do you need to trap people and use 3 clients (or however many) to kill one person. Learn to pvp, stop using lame tactics to make up for your lack of skill. Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:35:00 - [11] Originally by: RuleoftheBone This. So very, very much this. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:37:00 - [12] Note to self: MWD bump possible bait Ravens/Drakes before engageing.
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Crusix Bargoth Something tells me the reason you need to multi-client and use the most lame tactic to pvp is because you don't have any friends in game. Perhaps if you make some friends you will see that live pilots killing people is much more effective then your 3 box log on trap. But you probably aren't the best at PvP either, and there for need to do this to get a kill. If you have a char that can fly a Huginn....why do you need to trap people and use 3 clients (or however many) to kill one person. Learn to pvp, stop using lame tactics to make up for your lack of skill. You're correct on all levels, except well two. I don't need to score kills - I'm a carebear, I get my adrenaline from Veldspar, and I didn't really suggest to use 3 clients myself. I love your way of being constructive though, all smiths knows you need flames to forge things, right?
Mc Fraser Scream Inc. Moral Decay.	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:47:00 - [14] warp all ships to belt. log off all accounts apart from bait get all other accounts at character selection screen sit and wait. ship shoots you bait ship tackle them then log in all other characters pew pew pew profit
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Mc Fraser warp all ships to belt. log off all accounts apart from bait get all other accounts at character selection screen sit and wait. ship shoots you bait ship tackle them then log in all other characters pew pew pew profit Of course, but what ships and setups would you recommend? What would you use as bait and how can I hold him in place?
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:53:00 - [16] Edited by: arbalesttom on 07/05/2008 19:53:38 Just....rofl Ps: Get all your alts in velators with 2x Light Ion II and 2x Hobgoblin II and pwn the crap out of your target. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Sekh Ondaari ... this isn't supposed to be a thread about CCP and the communities support of logontraps or not, it's simply a thread about how they're best executed. Tips and tricks and gangsetups. My tip then, use noob ships for your log-on trap, or shuttles! Jumping someone with a noob ship log-on trap would be epic. If you win though, shame on you... -- Don't harsh my mellow
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:56:00 - [18] go to your items page press ctrl+a and then right click create contract item exchange private Chainsaw Plankton, in the item select box make sure to check mark all the ships that way when I log on I will think its a trap and blow up all my corps stuff and self destruct and pod myself making you win eve
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:09:00 - [19] No, rookieships are not a very valid tactic for this kind of engagement. They deal relatively low damage, and are bad in most ways. I'd appreciate it if you stopped suggesting ideas that we all know are not serious. No, I have no intention of giving all my assets away. Can we please keep this discussion constructive and on topic?
Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:20:00 - [20] Just admit you suck at the game and cancel all your accounts. May I suggest World Of Warcraft or hello kitty online, they are a lot better games for people who suck at life, and games. Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Sekh Ondaari on 07/05/2008 20:38:43 Originally by: Multras Just admit you suck at the game and cancel all your accounts. May I suggest World Of Warcraft or hello kitty online, they are a lot better games for people who suck at life, and games. If you have no reason to post here other than personal attacks and flames, please don't. I appreciate feedback presented in a civil, factual manner. Tell me what you don't like and why and how you feel it could be improved. This thread is about a valid gametactic very much like using so called nanogangs or stabbed out gangs, all of which I'm sure you are familiar with.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Sekh Ondaari Edited by: Sekh Ondaari on 07/05/2008 20:38:43 Originally by: Multras Just admit you suck at the game and cancel all your accounts. May I suggest World Of Warcraft or hello kitty online, they are a lot better games for people who suck at life, and games. If you have no reason to post here other than personal attacks and flames, please don't. I appreciate feedback presented in a civil, factual manner. Tell me what you don't like and why and how you feel it could be improved. This thread is about a valid gametactic very much like using so called nanogangs or stabbed out gangs, all of which I'm sure you are familiar with. __________________________________
TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Multras Just admit you suck at the game and cancel all your accounts. May I suggest World Of Warcraft or hello kitty online, they are a lot better games for people who suck at life, and games. Seriously I hope he does. I can accept logging off to avoid enemies, but logon traps are a ******** tactic for people who cannot win normally or honourably.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:51:00 - [24] Jesus christ, just stop feeding the troll. It's obvious as hell. Anyone doing a logon trap does not need to come on the forum and ask how to do it. --
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Jesus christ, just stop feeding the troll. It's obvious as hell. Anyone doing a logon trap does not need to come on the forum and ask how to do it. It's not a troll, I've never done one and I don't need to ask. I wan't to ask. I wan't to have a healthy discussion about it. If it was up to me I'd like to see it banned, in fact I thought it was for some time. I'm not sure I'll ever actually do a logon trap - but it's interesting to discuss. Same thing as EFT-warriors enjoy looking at setups they'll never fit, Forum-warriors boast about kills they've never had. I want to learn the theories behind it, I want to refine it to perfection, and share some ideas.
LoKesh Amarr InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.05.07 21:10:00 - [26] You're sure to pass this off as a troll, but this needs to be said anyway... Logging on or off in order to win an engagement or avoid losses is a ridiculous tactic. Yes, CCP will tell you that logging on or off is a valid choice and not an exploit. I would wager they do this because it would be impossible to police. HOWEVER - it is, as mentioned above, something generally frowned upon by the entire community. Setting a trap is fine - but having ships log-on to spring it sucks because you are exercising mechanics outside the game (also known as metagaming). (To further drive that home - there is nothing your target can do ingame to avoid it. Scouts will not help, probes will not help - there is no counter in game to avoid the logon trap - it ruins Eve's little chess match) It's a base and vile practice. So, I'll give you an alternative... have your alts in a separate corporation than your main. Keep them in system docked, or (if you're in an empty region) - keep them one jump away. Use your bait ship the same, but then physically enter the system and warp to the fight with you alts. Or, as also mentioned above, get some friends to help you. Trust me, combat is so much more fun when you pull of a victory by proper coordination with other real people. Fight the urge to be lame just to get kills. xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Proudly serving Skunk-Works
Sekh Ondaari	Posted - 2008.05.07 21:22:00 - [27] Originally by: LoKesh You're sure to pass this off as a troll, but this needs to be said anyway... Logging on or off in order to win an engagement or avoid losses is a ridiculous tactic. Yes, CCP will tell you that logging on or off is a valid choice and not an exploit. I would wager they do this because it would be impossible to police. HOWEVER - it is, as mentioned above, something generally frowned upon by the entire community. Setting a trap is fine - but having ships log-on to spring it sucks because you are exercising mechanics outside the game (also known as metagaming). (To further drive that home - there is nothing your target can do ingame to avoid it. Scouts will not help, probes will not help - there is no counter in game to avoid the logon trap - it ruins Eve's little chess match) It's a base and vile practice. So, I'll give you an alternative... have your alts in a separate corporation than your main. Keep them in system docked, or (if you're in an empty region) - keep them one jump away. Use your bait ship the same, but then physically enter the system and warp to the fight with you alts. Or, as also mentioned above, get some friends to help you. Trust me, combat is so much more fun when you pull of a victory by proper coordination with other real people. Fight the urge to be lame just to get kills. As stated - I have no urge to. I don't like or endorse the way of fighting. But I do wan't to discuss it and refine the ideas behind it. Learn how others execute it. I'm already converted and there's nothing for me to trust you on that I do not already know myself. There's plenty of behaviours in the game that I don't fancy very much. Macromining, Nano/stabs, exploits in general, most of which I badly avoid - however that doesn't mean I don't want to know how to execute it, how they work or how to perfect it. It's not impossible to police, even if I agree it's convienient. If it wasn't intended there would be mechanics and procedures working against it. That said this is once again not a discussion about why it's allowed or if it should be or not. It is allowed and hence it's a part of the game.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Sekh Ondaari That said this is once again not a discussion about why it's allowed or if it should be or not. It is allowed and hence it's a part of the game. Doesnt take away the fact it probably is the lamest thing you can do in this game.. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.07 22:30:00 - [29] Edited by: arbalesttom on 07/05/2008 22:30:18 double poast *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Summer's End Intel 7	Posted - 2008.05.08 00:28:00 - [30] 3x Thanatos w/ Templars. :D When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you.

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