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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:07:24
 Originally by: pwnedgato
I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age.
The problem with this is that the people are "stupid". Wether it is religion, politics, or a group of friends, the stupid people are lead like a flock of sheep.
We must look at the main reasons religion was created. It was primarily due to a fear of the unknown/death. A good example is the worship/praying to the heavens after a kill has been made. Ancient people did not typically enjoy killing living animals for their own sustenacnce, so they needed to look to the beyond to deal with the anguish this caused in their heads.
If humanity was so dependant on religion and religon was so right then why is there not one unifying religions doctrine. The reason is that is is man made. Man needs to remake/readjust the system to work with current society.
Slade
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pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:01:00 -
[32]
Agreement has been reached. The only solution is quite obvious... Another round of drinks!
Originally by: Crumplecorn
These is a forum for this.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:02:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:04:07
Originally by: pwnedgato
Agreement has been reached. The only solution is quite obvious... Another round of drinks!
Ditto, a few will be downed in 5 hours when I am off work.
Slade
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:04:00 -
[34]
We should have an "OOP" drinking chat channel ingame or on TS/vent 
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards
Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:06:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:06:21
Akita to give you a glimmer of hope. In the past year I have been able to take two theist friends and convert them to agnosticism and one atheistic friend and convered them into agnosticism. It is becoming ever more possible to have resonable discussion like this with a greater number within the population that I am surrounded with.
There is hope.
Slade
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akita T
However, here's the next conundrum...
If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it...
...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ?
Well that's it right there, the WILL and the CHOICE. The will to choose what you think is the right path to take in life. Some are guided by "destiny" or "fate", but i believe life is truly what you make of it.
As you grow and mature as an adult you have that ability of self-awareness to analyze your own thoughts, and form new beliefs to carry you through life. Some people are unable or unwilling to form their own beliefs and choose religions in order to have "faith" to feel more secure in this world. But i think willpower, choice, self-awareness and self-analysis provides confidence and being secure in your self.
Are you still the same person you were 5, 10, 15 years ago? rhetorical no, you are constantly evolving and forming new beliefs as you experience life.
Originally by: Akita T
Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general.
I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality.
I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools.
Of course people are going to choose whatever they think will make them happy; be it ambition, chasing money, owning material possessions, etc. Sorry, but i object to your statement in the above quote. I comes across as arrogant. I have met what you call "inferior beings", yet they are happy, perhaps happy in their ignorance but happy. If they bring joy to people's life then that is a meaningful thing in itself.
I wouldn't delve too deeply into the faults of the human species, for there are many. This will only depress you and more so if you are drunk Akita. Try to see the positive and acknowledge the negative. The human race has come along way from the days of ancient times.
Switch off your TV and don't read a newspaper for week. See what answers flow through your head when only your "local" life is foremost in your mind.
I don't personally read books telling me how i should think or live, it's best to forge your own path, and know that if when mistakes do occur that you can adjust your own belief system. And believe me, i have made many... 
Originally by: Akita T
Is that what madness feels like ?
Nope, you are just questioning life in order to find the "key", elusive as it is though.
WTF? Did i just write all that? Serious bizniz. 
Mystri |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
Does there have to be any ?
Or, better said, do YOU need any ?
It is man's greatest fear, apparently, that his life is meaningless.
People find refuge in anything from religion, phylosophy to charlatans claiming enlightenment, just to they feel there is a greater purpose, a meaning to their life.
Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ?
What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ?
What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes ?
And does it really matter ?
P.S. Yes, I am drunk. I get phylosophical when drunk.
The meaning of a human's life can be narrowed down to a couple things.
1)The survival of his species(this is in ANY act he will ever do).
2)using that survival to explore and thrive.
3)Gaining the respect of himself and the people around him through helping in some way to the survival of his species.
But if you want to narrow it down to the baseline, all we're here for is to survive and become more and more dominant.
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.08 19:49:00 -
[38]
You might want to try listening to some Pink Floyd's music to provoke some insights. High Hopes.
Mystri |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Akita T
What I'm saying is that, even more sadly, the people in power do not care for (either out of ignorance or self-interest) to change that.
In the end, it all comes down to education.
Even stupid people can grasp reward and punishment, and we're past the point where that reward/punishment HAS to come from a "supreme being" that can see/hear/feel anything you do or think.
Criminals will always be criminals, with or without religion, and ordinary people will still be "decent human beings" without religion too.
The people in power do not care to change things because they use religion to maintain power. And in any case where you have seen people try to stomp out religion it has failed badly (Soviets came closest but even they couldn't stop it and they very much tried).
Punishment in the afterlife provides some means of social control. There are many people who, with no fear for their soul, have no problem stomping on anyone around them to get their way. Survival of the fittest, screw the rest. Some here on this forum espouse exactly that idea unapologetically.
I personally feel there are some universal morals and ethics that can be appealed to without the need for religion but unfortunately they require a good deal of thought and reflection to really internalize and most people simple cannot be arsed to bother. In general people want simple answers handed to them on a platter. God will make you burn in hell if you do X. Simple, to the point, no need to ask yourself why.
More's the pity.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Mary Me'Belle
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:43:00 -
[40]
the meaning of life is easy, life is there to be lived.
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Kastar
Paragon Horizons
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:46:00 -
[41]
A meaning to life ? I certainly hope not 
I try to enjoy what I do, try to have as much fun as I can and be a good dad. Being a good husband I gave up as she doesnt work along anyway.
As for the end.. I do hope it's finished then. We don't need a rerun
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:48:00 -
[42]
42.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.08 21:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 21:41:43
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
42.
Did you wait for that post number to come up or is that just wierd coincedence.
I guess the first.
Slade
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.05.08 21:43:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Alowishus on 08/05/2008 21:45:39
I just lost!
The only important thing is THE GAME.
Been over two years now. Dunno why this thread made me think of it. Screw you guys.
Join The Muffin Factory
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.05.08 22:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 21:41:43
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
42.
Did you wait for that post number to come up or is that just wierd coincedence.
I guess the first.
Slade
LOL
No I actually didn't...wow.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Micia
Minmatar
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:03:00 -
[46]
I think the last few lines of this sum it up nicely. 
_______
Break your chains! Kinda'Shujaa is just the first step. |
pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:04:00 -
[47]
Akita make an OOPer drinking/bull**** channel in EvE.
Originally by: Crumplecorn
These is a forum for this.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: goodby4u on 09/05/2008 00:24:27
Originally by: pwnedgato
Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 17:47:04
First to say 42 dies by Hello Kitty avalanche.
Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself.
At the moment our only meaning is to learn and survive, but if we reach the stage where we can either prove or disprove possible life on other planets we could have two different roles.
1)We find life, its either stupid or more powerfull then we are...Our role at that point is to seek out more and create a type of intergalactic UN....That is if it wasnt created yet.
2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it.
Now, if anybody wants to ask... Im christian, I dont like to beat everybody over the head with my beliefs as I believe anybody could worship(or not)any god they want aslong as it doesnt affect me, but im a christian not because I have proof but because it makes me feel like my life has more order.
That being said this discussion has nothing to do with realigion specifically so I recommend not to star a flame war about it.
Oh and lastly if you think your life doesnt have meaning then your half right, it has a limited meaning as most if not all of ours do...Because our race is still a primitive one... But you can take solace in what our race is capable of if given enough time.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: goodby4u
2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it.
You cannot save the Universe. Nothing can. The laws of physics (thermodynamics in particular) demand it. The best we can do is escape this universe to something else. One term put to this is the Omega Point where essentially we transcend this universe and what happens here is of little concern anymore. Note that this is consistent with Christianity.
An even more weird spin on the Omega Point is the Tiplerian Omega Point. Essentially as the universe collapses the computational capacity of the universe will be increasing exponentially (faster than time is running out). Assuming we are smart enough to harness this capacity we could create a simulation to live in (using the universe for a computer the simulation could be as real as reality is). Here's the weird part (as if that is not weird enough). Despite there only being a finite time left for the universe to exist as it contracts the rising computational capacity means the simulation can run forever. Unfortunately it does not look like the Universe will end in a Big Crunch so this may not be possible even if it were, well, possible.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: goodby4u
2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it.
You cannot save the Universe. Nothing can. The laws of physics (thermodynamics in particular) demand it. The best we can do is escape this universe to something else. One term put to this is the Omega Point where essentially we transcend this universe and what happens here is of little concern anymore. Note that this is consistent with Christianity.
An even more weird spin on the Omega Point is the Tiplerian Omega Point. Essentially as the universe collapses the computational capacity of the universe will be increasing exponentially (faster than time is running out). Assuming we are smart enough to harness this capacity we could create a simulation to live in (using the universe for a computer the simulation could be as real as reality is). Here's the weird part (as if that is not weird enough). Despite there only being a finite time left for the universe to exist as it contracts the rising computational capacity means the simulation can run forever. Unfortunately it does not look like the Universe will end in a Big Crunch so this may not be possible even if it were, well, possible.
Its funny, science changes alot, especially now at days...
So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this).
And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on.
What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong.
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Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:09:00 -
[51]
Weiter, weiter ins Verderben
Wir mnssen leben bis wir sterben
that's pretty much it for me...
live until you die
head onto destruction
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.09 02:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: goodby4u
So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this).
And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on.
What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong.
Well...in order for the Tiplerian Omega Point to work you need the Universe contracting in on itself and very near maximum crunchage. The universe as a computer thing won;t work till then.
As for turning stars back on you can't. Today you could but eventually you just cannot. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) increases over time. What this means for our universe is eventually there will be no energy left to do work with. The Universe will become a cold and totally uninteresting place. Started with a bang, end in a cosmic whimper.
This is a fundamental feature of our universe and well understood. Unless you can change the very nature of the Universe itself there is no avoiding this. If you could do that you are, literally, God and making such a change would be so profound as to essentially re-write reality itself. To be God then we are back to the Omega Point and transcendence.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: goodby4u
So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this).
And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on.
What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong.
Well...in order for the Tiplerian Omega Point to work you need the Universe contracting in on itself and very near maximum crunchage. The universe as a computer thing won;t work till then.
As for turning stars back on you can't. Today you could but eventually you just cannot. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) increases over time. What this means for our universe is eventually there will be no energy left to do work with. The Universe will become a cold and totally uninteresting place. Started with a bang, end in a cosmic whimper.
This is a fundamental feature of our universe and well understood. Unless you can change the very nature of the Universe itself there is no avoiding this. If you could do that you are, literally, God and making such a change would be so profound as to essentially re-write reality itself. To be God then we are back to the Omega Point and transcendence.
Dont doubt what the human race can do given the amount of time given... I mean we went from rural iron making and less then adaquite understanding of whats around us to a huge understanding and computers in 100 years... Think of what we could do in a trillion(10 trillion I think is the estimated lifespan of the last dwarf stars).
And once again I fall back on my previous arguement, theories can and usually are found to be wrong... I mean in the next 100 years im sure we would disprove 99% of the theories in existance right now.
And once humans gain an understanding of what everything is made of at the most fundamental level, playing god would be easy...But scary aswell.
Also, wrap your mind around this, humans can possibly have unlimited time to complete their work due to the possibility of time travel.
Lastly, your forgetting about other universes parallel to our own, it is commonly accepted that there are trillions of universes besides ours...If we could store the energy from each one of those universes we could easily restore the amount of energy in our own an unlimited amount of times.
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Genghis Kitty
Hello Kitty Online Adventurers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:13:00 -
[54]
I don't believe in any "greater power".
I think when you die, you're dead.
I'm never doing anything just for some supposed glory in an afterlife, nor praise from a non existent almighty power or a heavenly being. Therefore I'm happy to know that any good act I perform in life is coming from within me. From inside my brain. Solely because I want to do it.
Sometimes I thing it would be a lot easier to get through life thinking there was all a major point to it, but nah, in reality it's "mate, spawn and die".
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Ishtar1
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:16:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Ishtar1 on 09/05/2008 07:23:20
my thoughts are at the end of the day life is what you make it
whether you believe in heaven, nirvana w/e
Even if this turns out to be some random event in the universe(i mean us) make use of the time you have now as you will only get one chance at life. Live with no regrets(or at least try not to) and enjoy your self
Treat others as how you would like to be treated your self and look after those closest to you
Infinate possablilitys
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Genghis Kitty
Hello Kitty Online Adventurers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: goodby4u
And once again I fall back on my previous arguement, theories can and usually are found to be wrong... I mean in the next 100 years im sure we would disprove 99% of the theories in existance right now.
I agree, and this always freaks me out. Take a snapshot of time at any point in human history, and at that moment they will always think they know how things fit together and they are doing the right thing.
Whatever things seem ridiculous to us now were just totally matter-of-fact to the people at the time.
Extrapolating this, in centuries to come people will look back on our quaint ways and laugh at how naive we are. Over what? Well, who can tell?
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omglollolol
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:55:00 -
[57]
Edited by: omglollolol on 09/05/2008 08:03:12
'quote used'
if you trust in your soul,
keep your eyes on the goal,
then the prize you won't fail,
that's your grail.
life is really up to you,
you must choose what to pursue.
set your mind on what to find,
and there's nothing you can't do.
so keep right to the end,
you'll find your goal my friend,
you won't fail,
find your grail
nuf said
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Twelve Jackals
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Posted - 2008.05.09 08:31:00 -
[58]
if sokratesz wasnt banned i would post a reply with her right here
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.09 09:10:00 -
[59]
The meaning of life is a nasty headache
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards
Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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Twelve Jackals
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Posted - 2008.05.09 09:31:00 -
[60]
can't..resist..posting..
http://xkcd.com/420/
Things like that make life worth living. Unfortunatly the moment of fusion i experienced didn't make it to marriage but at least i've got some good memories of it.
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