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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:31:00 - [1] Does there have to be any ? Or, better said, do YOU need any ? It is man's greatest fear, apparently, that his life is meaningless. People find refuge in anything from religion, phylosophy to charlatans claiming enlightenment, just to they feel there is a greater purpose, a meaning to their life. Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes ? And does it really matter ? P.S. Yes, I am drunk. I get phylosophical when drunk. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:35:00 - [2] Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 17:47:04 First to say 42 dies by Hello Kitty avalanche. Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Akita T Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? Not a problem. To be in a position to have that answer if there is no meaning you won't know it, if there is then all is well. Either way you're covered. In short have another drink now. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:39:00 - [4] 42 doooh ____________________________________________ And yes I'll be gone soon.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 17:41:54 Well, I personally see no reason why life should have any meaning at all, any greater purpose or such But I love to hear people trying to argue that it isn't so. Yes, I do believe life is only what you make of it, there's no judgement after death, there's no life after death, there's only nothingness. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:41:00 - [6] Who says life has a meaning? We could die out like the dinosaurs tomorrow, and the universe would not care. Life has no meaning, but that doesnt give you a license to be emo. It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Haraldhardrade Life has no meaning, but that doesnt give you a license to be emo. Quite the contrary If life has no meaning, then everything you do has a meaning... for you... and for those you "touch". By having no greater purpose, you are free to find your own purpose. By not playing by somebody's set rules, you can play with your own ruleset. You're not living in a rail-shooter world, you live in a sandbox. Everything is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less... Well, to be honest, I was kind of expecting a "duuh!" reaction from most people that play EVE. Afterall, EVE is just a sandbox too __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:46:00 - [8] Sucks you gotta be emo apparantly to talk about the meaning of life. Sucks more you gotta be an alt to post your views. ____________________________________________ And yes I'll be gone soon.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:46:00 - [9] Hey! I said what you think already! VALIDATE ME! Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:47:00 - [10] Personally I've come to the conclusion that there is no meaning to life other than life itself, it creates its own meaning. Our own personal lives have to be the same, there is no meaning except whatever meaning you apply to it yourself. P.S: Yeah, I've spent many drunken nights discussing the more "odd" systems and questions of Philosophy. For some reason the discussion always gravitates towards Wittgenstein and the process of defining infinite and undefined systems from within themselves. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Sereifex Daku Trill Crabulas Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:47:00 - [11] Originally by: pwnedgato Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Ditto. If there was a single point in life then we would be slaves to a higher power. we make our own objectives, and so we are free (to a point). Personally, I have set myself the opbjective of sampling the many pleasures of life and attempt to comprehend as much of the universe as possible before I die. I like to get my moneys worth.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:48:00 - [12] Drunk Philosophy...Slade warmly remebers drunk and high convesations were much better then lame old frat parties. I would say that there is probably no "real" meaning for life other then to live. But I would also say that this does not disqualify the idea that people should define their own meaning, grow in whatever one endeavors, and to not stagnate. Also, if one feels that they have found their meaning then they should try to help others find theirs without dictating certain process or forms. *Slad wishes Slade
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Quite the contrary If life has no meaning, then everything you do has a meaning... for you... and for those you "touch". By having no greater purpose, you are free to find your own purpose. By not playing by somebody's set rules, you can play with your own ruleset. You're not living in a rail-shooter world, you live in a sandbox. Everything is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less... Well, to be honest, I was kind of expecting a "duuh!" reaction from most people that play EVE. Afterall, EVE is just a sandbox too I didnt say you were being emo btw, I was speaking in general terms It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:52:00 - [14] Originally by: pwnedgato Hey! I said what you think already! VALIDATE ME! You have been granted validation Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Yeah, I've spent many drunken nights discussing the more "odd" systems and questions of Philosophy. For some reason the discussion always gravitates towards Wittgenstein and the process of defining infinite and undefined systems from within themselves. Over here, mostly Nietzsche Funny thing is, we share the same birthday too. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Shirazz Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:57:00 - [15] Duh. But seriously, I pretty much agree with everything you have said here. I take by this you are an atheist then? They tend to be more 'down to earth' than the theistic types. PS: I go to a christian school and am still not sure if christianity is a monotheistic or a polytheistic religeon, one of my chaplins argues that the trinity are defined seperatly and takes the three in one thing as a sort of 'team' thing I suppose, while the other is adamant they are all one person (wtf? how can jesus be the son of jesus AND jesus? Dont say the obvious please as it would probs get the thread locked). Clarification anyone? Behold Castra Noor, Failed Troller!
Mystri	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [16] Well, you should always try to look on the bright side of life and try not to turn to the dark side. Oh, and don't take yourself too seriously. I foresee this thread turning religious and being locked btw. Mystri
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Akita T Over here, mostly Nietzsche [:lol: Yeah. Nietzsche is a good one. But whenever our philosophy group discuss Nietzsche we end up talking about his literary technique of intentional semantic shift, and then it's inevitable that you end up discussing the younger Wittgensteins language theory. Well, at least it is when you're drunk ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Sereifex Daku Originally by: pwnedgato Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Ditto. If there was a single point in life then we would be slaves to a higher power. we make our own objectives, and so we are free (to a point). Personally, I have set myself the opbjective of sampling the many pleasures of life and attempt to comprehend as much of the universe as possible before I die. I like to get my moneys worth. Agreed. As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. Life is a prison of earthly pains and joys; pains and fears are one of the strongest weighing forces in human society's that destroys ourself or holds us down. If you dismiss this force, you control your destiny. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Irish Whiskey Caldari Finite Horizon Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:10:00 - [19] Denis Leary said it best: Quote: Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to fscking work, ok!?
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Amastat As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in transcendent ethics (as in for example buddhism and certain forms of utilitarianism and philosophical egoism), then I'm ok with that. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in antisocial egoism, then I make sure that I have a nice and hefty steel pipe within reach. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:21:00 - [21] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:26:25 Originally by: Shirazz But seriously, I pretty much agree with everything you have said here. I take by this you are an atheist then? They tend to be more 'down to earth' than the theistic types. PS: I go to a christian school and am still not sure if christianity is a monotheistic or a polytheistic religeon[...] Clarification anyone? I started as an orthodox christian (as a kid). All it took to turn me agnostic was reading the Bible a couple of times (and I mean the whole thing, especially the old testament). Recently however (not that long ago, to be honest) I've actually turned atheist... and it's only getting stronger (and more combative against religion in general, but I digress). As for religion... any religion, not just Christianity or any other of the Abrahamic religions... isn't it eventually just a desperate cry for approval from the people uncapable to grasp the concept of the "lack of meaning" of life ? As for debating wether Christianity is a monotheistic or politheistic religion, I find it equally challenging intellectually to debating wether the first three (ep.4-6) Star Wars are canon and the last ones (ep.1-3) retcons, or if they're part of the greater story it was initially intended to be I mean, seriously, we're talking fictional characters here... why does one have to be more important than the other, objectively speaking ? Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Akita T Over here, mostly Nietzsche [:lol: Yeah. Nietzsche is a good one. But whenever our philosophy group discuss Nietzsche we end up talking about his literary technique of intentional semantic shift, and then it's inevitable that you end up discussing the younger Wittgensteins language theory. Well, at least it is when you're drunk Strange... we usually end up talking about his ideas about the disconnection between religion and morals. I guess I'd mostly be my fault though He argues (or, at least, that's my take on it) that man does not need to be religious to have moral values. Moreso, he argues that religion actually stands between man and man's pursuit of higher moral values. And stuff like that. On which I happend to agree. Or, maybe, just read between the lines, even if he didn't mean it like that. Who knows ? __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:27:00 - [22] I like how the poet Antonio Machado put it: "Caminante, no hay camino Se hace camino al andar" Which roughly translates to: "Traveller, there is no road You make your path as you walk"
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Amastat As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in transcendent ethics (as in for example buddhism and certain forms of utilitarianism and philosophical egoism), then I'm ok with that. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in antisocial egoism, then I make sure that I have a nice and hefty steel pipe within reach. No, the first one xD Basically - don't let life and earthly pains run you. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Natsume Chidori	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:37:00 - [24] (Alt of Tarminic, BTW) Originally by: Akita T Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes? And does it really matter ? Life may have a universal meaning on a grand scale. We may be the creations of some omnipotent being who crafted us to ask these questions and amuse or entertain him. Then again, we may not be. But why let that get us down? Life has meaning to you, doesn't it? We live, and we're interested in continuing to live, and we give our lives meaning. Personally, I want to design kickass videogames with absolutely immersive stories and characters. Will anything I've said or done be around or remembered a thousand years from now? Probably not. But who cares? I want to enjoy life and have a positive impact on the world, regardless of how long people will remember it for or how long the world is around. Getting caught up on anything more than that is outside the scope of what you should be worried about.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:39:00 - [25] However, here's the next conundrum... If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it... ...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ? Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general. I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality. I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools. Is that what madness feels like ? __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:42:00 - [26] Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 18:42:12 Originally by: Akita T I started as an orthodox christian (as a kid). All it took to turn me agnostic was reading the Bible a couple of times (and I mean the whole thing, especially the old testament). Recently however (not that long ago, to be honest) I've actually turned atheist... and it's only getting stronger (and more combative against religion in general, but I digress). As for religion... any religion, not just Christianity or any other of the Abrahamic religions... isn't it eventually just a desperate cry for approval from the people uncapable to grasp the concept of the "lack of meaning" of life ? I find anyone who is actually "against" any religion or lack of religion to be far worse than any "regular" believer or atheist. I used to think of the Roman Catholic church as a great evil that held back progress for centuries. Now I do not. I simply realize it was expedient to those who made the decisions at the time, and they just happened to have a religious justification for it. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T However, here's the next conundrum... If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it... ...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ? Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general. I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality. I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools. Is that what madness feels like ? After reading the whole post I deleted my first line since I do not want to instigate anything but I will leave the following in. Dude you have helped alot of people in thsi game with your clear and conscise writting. I seriously doubt that your real life is any diferent. Times are changing and I think the fight against organised religion is only getting stronger. Ultimately, if you are alive and perform actions you will have some form of effect on the surrounding environment(good or bad) so ulitmately you do have some form of meaning wether you choose it or not. Forget the ignorant fools and and let them blow by like the wind. Slade
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:47:00 - [28] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:53:43 Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:51:46 Originally by: pwnedgato I find anyone who is actually "against" any religion or lack of religion to be far worse than any "regular" believer or atheist. I used to think of the Roman Catholic church as a great evil that held back progress for centuries. Now I do not. I simply realize it was expedient to those who made the decisions at the time, and they just happened to have a religious justification for it. Don't confuse the disdain I hold for religion in general with a dismissal of its accomplishments. I do not hold any more grudge towards religion as, say, the doctor that draws blood to alleviate hypertension problems in a patient. Religion might have had a purpose, a good purpose, in the dawn of time... and it might still have a (good) purpose for some people. But for the world of tomorrow, religion is an archaic tool, that would best be discarded in favor of something else, of a more pragmatic view on life. I hope you understand where I'm going at with this... religion might still be mildly beneficial to humankind in general, but it's becoming less and less effective as a tool for civilisation... and as most other antiquated tools, it serves humanity best to discard it sonner rather than later in favour of better, modern tools. P.S. 6th beer and counting P.P.S. None of that USA "light beer" stuff. I mean the European, half-a-liter, 5%++ alcohool beer That's around "half a bottle of scotch". I drink when angry or sad. I might be an alcohoolic. Who cares anyway . __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:54:00 - [29] I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:58:00 - [30] Originally by: pwnedgato I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age. The sad thing is that I do believe the same thing... that most people are simply too stupid to survive in civilisation without religion, as things stand right now. What I'm saying is that, even more sadly, the people in power do not care for (either out of ignorance or self-interest) to change that. In the end, it all comes down to education. Even stupid people can grasp reward and punishment, and we're past the point where that reward/punishment HAS to come from a "supreme being" that can see/hear/feel anything you do or think. Criminals will always be criminals, with or without religion, and ordinary people will still be "decent human beings" without religion too. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:01:00 - [31] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:07:24 Originally by: pwnedgato I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age. The problem with this is that the people are "stupid". Wether it is religion, politics, or a group of friends, the stupid people are lead like a flock of sheep. We must look at the main reasons religion was created. It was primarily due to a fear of the unknown/death. A good example is the worship/praying to the heavens after a kill has been made. Ancient people did not typically enjoy killing living animals for their own sustenacnce, so they needed to look to the beyond to deal with the anguish this caused in their heads. If humanity was so dependant on religion and religon was so right then why is there not one unifying religions doctrine. The reason is that is is man made. Man needs to remake/readjust the system to work with current society. Slade
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:01:00 - [32] Agreement has been reached. The only solution is quite obvious... Another round of drinks! Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:02:00 - [33] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:04:07 Originally by: pwnedgato Agreement has been reached. The only solution is quite obvious... Another round of drinks! Ditto, a few will be downed in 5 hours when I am off work. Slade
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:04:00 - [34] We should have an "OOP" drinking chat channel ingame or on TS/vent __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:06:00 - [35] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 19:06:21 Akita to give you a glimmer of hope. In the past year I have been able to take two theist friends and convert them to agnosticism and one atheistic friend and convered them into agnosticism. It is becoming ever more possible to have resonable discussion like this with a greater number within the population that I am surrounded with. There is hope. Slade
Mystri	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:27:00 - [36] Originally by: Akita T However, here's the next conundrum... If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it... ...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ? Well that's it right there, the WILL and the CHOICE. The will to choose what you think is the right path to take in life. Some are guided by "destiny" or "fate", but i believe life is truly what you make of it. As you grow and mature as an adult you have that ability of self-awareness to analyze your own thoughts, and form new beliefs to carry you through life. Some people are unable or unwilling to form their own beliefs and choose religions in order to have "faith" to feel more secure in this world. But i think willpower, choice, self-awareness and self-analysis provides confidence and being secure in your self. Are you still the same person you were 5, 10, 15 years ago? rhetorical no, you are constantly evolving and forming new beliefs as you experience life. Originally by: Akita T Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general. I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality. I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools. Of course people are going to choose whatever they think will make them happy; be it ambition, chasing money, owning material possessions, etc. Sorry, but i object to your statement in the above quote. I comes across as arrogant. I have met what you call "inferior beings", yet they are happy, perhaps happy in their ignorance but happy. If they bring joy to people's life then that is a meaningful thing in itself. I wouldn't delve too deeply into the faults of the human species, for there are many. This will only depress you and more so if you are drunk Akita. Try to see the positive and acknowledge the negative. The human race has come along way from the days of ancient times. Switch off your TV and don't read a newspaper for week. See what answers flow through your head when only your "local" life is foremost in your mind. I don't personally read books telling me how i should think or live, it's best to forge your own path, and know that if when mistakes do occur that you can adjust your own belief system. And believe me, i have made many... Originally by: Akita T Is that what madness feels like ? Nope, you are just questioning life in order to find the "key", elusive as it is though. WTF? Did i just write all that? Serious bizniz. Mystri
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Akita T Does there have to be any ? Or, better said, do YOU need any ? It is man's greatest fear, apparently, that his life is meaningless. People find refuge in anything from religion, phylosophy to charlatans claiming enlightenment, just to they feel there is a greater purpose, a meaning to their life. Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes ? And does it really matter ? P.S. Yes, I am drunk. I get phylosophical when drunk. The meaning of a human's life can be narrowed down to a couple things. 1)The survival of his species(this is in ANY act he will ever do). 2)using that survival to explore and thrive. 3)Gaining the respect of himself and the people around him through helping in some way to the survival of his species. But if you want to narrow it down to the baseline, all we're here for is to survive and become more and more dominant.
Mystri	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:49:00 - [38] You might want to try listening to some Pink Floyd's music to provoke some insights. High Hopes. Mystri
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.08 20:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Akita T What I'm saying is that, even more sadly, the people in power do not care for (either out of ignorance or self-interest) to change that. In the end, it all comes down to education. Even stupid people can grasp reward and punishment, and we're past the point where that reward/punishment HAS to come from a "supreme being" that can see/hear/feel anything you do or think. Criminals will always be criminals, with or without religion, and ordinary people will still be "decent human beings" without religion too. The people in power do not care to change things because they use religion to maintain power. And in any case where you have seen people try to stomp out religion it has failed badly (Soviets came closest but even they couldn't stop it and they very much tried). Punishment in the afterlife provides some means of social control. There are many people who, with no fear for their soul, have no problem stomping on anyone around them to get their way. Survival of the fittest, screw the rest. Some here on this forum espouse exactly that idea unapologetically. I personally feel there are some universal morals and ethics that can be appealed to without the need for religion but unfortunately they require a good deal of thought and reflection to really internalize and most people simple cannot be arsed to bother. In general people want simple answers handed to them on a platter. God will make you burn in hell if you do X. Simple, to the point, no need to ask yourself why. More's the pity. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Mary Me'Belle	Posted - 2008.05.08 20:43:00 - [40] the meaning of life is easy, life is there to be lived.
Kastar Paragon Horizons THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 20:46:00 - [41] A meaning to life ? I certainly hope not I try to enjoy what I do, try to have as much fun as I can and be a good dad. Being a good husband I gave up as she doesnt work along anyway. As for the end.. I do hope it's finished then. We don't need a rerun -----------------------------------------------
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.08 20:48:00 - [42] 42. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 21:41:00 - [43] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 21:41:43 Originally by: Atomos Darksun 42. Did you wait for that post number to come up or is that just wierd coincedence. I guess the first. Slade
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.08 21:43:00 - [44] Edited by: Alowishus on 08/05/2008 21:45:39 I just lost! The only important thing is THE GAME. Been over two years now. Dunno why this thread made me think of it. Screw you guys. Join The Muffin Factory
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.08 22:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/05/2008 21:41:43 Originally by: Atomos Darksun 42. Did you wait for that post number to come up or is that just wierd coincedence. I guess the first. Slade LOL No I actually didn't...wow. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:03:00 - [46] I think the last few lines of this sum it up nicely. _______ Break your chains! Kinda'Shujaa is just the first step.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:04:00 - [47] Akita make an OOPer drinking/bull** channel in EvE. Originally by:** Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:18:00 - [48] Edited by: goodby4u on 09/05/2008 00:24:27 Originally by: pwnedgato Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 17:47:04 First to say 42 dies by Hello Kitty avalanche. Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. At the moment our only meaning is to learn and survive, but if we reach the stage where we can either prove or disprove possible life on other planets we could have two different roles. 1)We find life, its either stupid or more powerfull then we are...Our role at that point is to seek out more and create a type of intergalactic UN....That is if it wasnt created yet. 2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it. Now, if anybody wants to ask... Im christian, I dont like to beat everybody over the head with my beliefs as I believe anybody could worship(or not)any god they want aslong as it doesnt affect me, but im a christian not because I have proof but because it makes me feel like my life has more order. That being said this discussion has nothing to do with realigion specifically so I recommend not to star a flame war about it. Oh and lastly if you think your life doesnt have meaning then your half right, it has a limited meaning as most if not all of ours do...Because our race is still a primitive one... But you can take solace in what our race is capable of if given enough time.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:51:00 - [49] Originally by: goodby4u 2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it. You cannot save the Universe. Nothing can. The laws of physics (thermodynamics in particular) demand it. The best we can do is escape this universe to something else. One term put to this is the Omega Point where essentially we transcend this universe and what happens here is of little concern anymore. Note that this is consistent with Christianity. An even more weird spin on the Omega Point is the Tiplerian Omega Point. Essentially as the universe collapses the computational capacity of the universe will be increasing exponentially (faster than time is running out). Assuming we are smart enough to harness this capacity we could create a simulation to live in (using the universe for a computer the simulation could be as real as reality is). Here's the weird part (as if that is not weird enough). Despite there only being a finite time left for the universe to exist as it contracts the rising computational capacity means the simulation can run forever. Unfortunately it does not look like the Universe will end in a Big Crunch so this may not be possible even if it were, well, possible. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 00:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u 2)Or we find no life at all, then our role amongst the stars is a lonely one, but eventually the universe will die... And I have grown to believe that if number 2 is correct then our role is to have enough knowledge to save it. You cannot save the Universe. Nothing can. The laws of physics (thermodynamics in particular) demand it. The best we can do is escape this universe to something else. One term put to this is the Omega Point where essentially we transcend this universe and what happens here is of little concern anymore. Note that this is consistent with Christianity. An even more weird spin on the Omega Point is the Tiplerian Omega Point. Essentially as the universe collapses the computational capacity of the universe will be increasing exponentially (faster than time is running out). Assuming we are smart enough to harness this capacity we could create a simulation to live in (using the universe for a computer the simulation could be as real as reality is). Here's the weird part (as if that is not weird enough). Despite there only being a finite time left for the universe to exist as it contracts the rising computational capacity means the simulation can run forever. Unfortunately it does not look like the Universe will end in a Big Crunch so this may not be possible even if it were, well, possible. Its funny, science changes alot, especially now at days... So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this). And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on. What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong.
Opertone Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.09 01:09:00 - [51] Weiter, weiter ins Verderben Wir mnssen leben bis wir sterben that's pretty much it for me... live until you die head onto destruction
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 02:07:00 - [52] Originally by: goodby4u So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this). And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on. What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong. Well...in order for the Tiplerian Omega Point to work you need the Universe contracting in on itself and very near maximum crunchage. The universe as a computer thing won;t work till then. As for turning stars back on you can't. Today you could but eventually you just cannot. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) increases over time. What this means for our universe is eventually there will be no energy left to do work with. The Universe will become a cold and totally uninteresting place. Started with a bang, end in a cosmic whimper. This is a fundamental feature of our universe and well understood. Unless you can change the very nature of the Universe itself there is no avoiding this. If you could do that you are, literally, God and making such a change would be so profound as to essentially re-write reality itself. To be God then we are back to the Omega Point and transcendence. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u So in theory you say it would work forever? Why wont it now? Well each sun turns matter(hydrogen helium and such)into light, heat, and radiation and is then ejected into the universe... Well what if we turned light heat and the radiation back into hydrogen and helium(yes farfetched but look how long we have to do this). And thats judging we dont figure out string theory and just turn all the stars back on. What I learned in life is anything is possible, and if somebody says something is fixed theres a very good chance that person is wrong. Well...in order for the Tiplerian Omega Point to work you need the Universe contracting in on itself and very near maximum crunchage. The universe as a computer thing won;t work till then. As for turning stars back on you can't. Today you could but eventually you just cannot. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) increases over time. What this means for our universe is eventually there will be no energy left to do work with. The Universe will become a cold and totally uninteresting place. Started with a bang, end in a cosmic whimper. This is a fundamental feature of our universe and well understood. Unless you can change the very nature of the Universe itself there is no avoiding this. If you could do that you are, literally, God and making such a change would be so profound as to essentially re-write reality itself. To be God then we are back to the Omega Point and transcendence. Dont doubt what the human race can do given the amount of time given... I mean we went from rural iron making and less then adaquite understanding of whats around us to a huge understanding and computers in 100 years... Think of what we could do in a trillion(10 trillion I think is the estimated lifespan of the last dwarf stars). And once again I fall back on my previous arguement, theories can and usually are found to be wrong... I mean in the next 100 years im sure we would disprove 99% of the theories in existance right now. And once humans gain an understanding of what everything is made of at the most fundamental level, playing god would be easy...But scary aswell. Also, wrap your mind around this, humans can possibly have unlimited time to complete their work due to the possibility of time travel. Lastly, your forgetting about other universes parallel to our own, it is commonly accepted that there are trillions of universes besides ours...If we could store the energy from each one of those universes we could easily restore the amount of energy in our own an unlimited amount of times.
Genghis Kitty Hello Kitty Online Adventurers	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:13:00 - [54] I don't believe in any "greater power". I think when you die, you're dead. I'm never doing anything just for some supposed glory in an afterlife, nor praise from a non existent almighty power or a heavenly being. Therefore I'm happy to know that any good act I perform in life is coming from within me. From inside my brain. Solely because I want to do it. Sometimes I thing it would be a lot easier to get through life thinking there was all a major point to it, but nah, in reality it's "mate, spawn and die".
Ishtar1 Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:16:00 - [55] Edited by: Ishtar1 on 09/05/2008 07:23:20 my thoughts are at the end of the day life is what you make it whether you believe in heaven, nirvana w/e Even if this turns out to be some random event in the universe(i mean us) make use of the time you have now as you will only get one chance at life. Live with no regrets(or at least try not to) and enjoy your self Treat others as how you would like to be treated your self and look after those closest to you Infinate possablilitys
Genghis Kitty Hello Kitty Online Adventurers	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:20:00 - [56] Originally by: goodby4u And once again I fall back on my previous arguement, theories can and usually are found to be wrong... I mean in the next 100 years im sure we would disprove 99% of the theories in existance right now. I agree, and this always freaks me out. Take a snapshot of time at any point in human history, and at that moment they will always think they know how things fit together and they are doing the right thing. Whatever things seem ridiculous to us now were just totally matter-of-fact to the people at the time. Extrapolating this, in centuries to come people will look back on our quaint ways and laugh at how naive we are. Over what? Well, who can tell?
omglollolol	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:55:00 - [57] Edited by: omglollolol on 09/05/2008 08:03:12 'quote used' if you trust in your soul, keep your eyes on the goal, then the prize you won't fail, that's your grail. life is really up to you, you must choose what to pursue. set your mind on what to find, and there's nothing you can't do. so keep right to the end, you'll find your goal my friend, you won't fail, find your grail nuf said
Twelve Jackals	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:31:00 - [58] if sokratesz wasnt banned i would post a reply with her right here
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:10:00 - [59] The meaning of life is a nasty headache __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Twelve Jackals	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:31:00 - [60] can't..resist..posting.. http://xkcd.com/420/ Things like that make life worth living. Unfortunatly the moment of fusion i experienced didn't make it to marriage but at least i've got some good memories of it.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:16:00 - [61] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 09/05/2008 14:16:51 Originally by: goodby4u Dont doubt what the human race can do given the amount of time given... I mean we went from rural iron making and less then adaquite understanding of whats around us to a huge understanding and computers in 100 years... Think of what we could do in a trillion(10 trillion I think is the estimated lifespan of the last dwarf stars). And once again I fall back on my previous arguement, theories can and usually are found to be wrong... I mean in the next 100 years im sure we would disprove 99% of the theories in existance right now. And once humans gain an understanding of what everything is made of at the most fundamental level, playing god would be easy...But scary aswell. Also, wrap your mind around this, humans can possibly have unlimited time to complete their work due to the possibility of time travel. Lastly, your forgetting about other universes parallel to our own, it is commonly accepted that there are trillions of universes besides ours...If we could store the energy from each one of those universes we could easily restore the amount of energy in our own an unlimited amount of times. To quote someone else: "The second law of thermodynamics is one of those rock-solid physical laws, the big gun that a scientist may use to quell the pseudo-scientific flights of fancy held by the reality challenged." Note that it is a Law and not a Theory. If you can violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics you could do things like make a perpetual motion machine. This is not one of those, "We're pretty sure" things. It is a rock solid foundation of physics. If it turns out to be wrong then you would literally toss most of physics into the bin till that point. It is true that we keep learning more and occasionally toss long held beliefs when new evidence comes to light but you are mistaken to suppose it is really all wrong now and something better lies down the road that is completely different. In ancient times they did not have the scientific method or use rigorous standards for proof and instead relied on intuition which often misguided them. The last 100 or so years the scientific method became paramount, rigorous proof required and repeatable testing to back it up. As such you do not see wholesale dumping of theories anymore like you did when we figured the earth orbited the sun and not the other way around. As such scientists more refine the theories so they get more accurate but not put them in the shredder completely. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is one such thing. It is a feature of the universe. You cannot sidestep it. As such, in the end, the Universe will turn into a dark place where literally nothing happens. No people. No stars. Nothing except a homogenized soup of particles hanging out. And it is not commonly accepted that there are trillions of universes besides ours. Some speculate about it but nothing remotely like being able to prove it. Just fun to speculate about over a pint at the pub. The Many Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is fun but not regarded as likely by most scientists (although they cannot prove it is wrong either so it remains as a possibility). -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Terail Zoqial Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:30:00 - [62] Eat, reproduce, survive. Anything beyond that is a bonus
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:37:00 - [63] To quote someone else: "The second law of thermodynamics is one of those rock-solid physical laws, the big gun that a scientist may use to quell the pseudo-scientific flights of fancy held by the reality challenged." Note that it is a Law and not a Theory. If you can violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics you could do things like make a perpetual motion machine. This is not one of those, "We're pretty sure" things. It is a rock solid foundation of physics. If it turns out to be wrong then you would literally toss most of physics into the bin till that point. It is true that we keep learning more and occasionally toss long held beliefs when new evidence comes to light but you are mistaken to suppose it is really all wrong now and something better lies down the road that is completely different. In ancient times they did not have the scientific method or use rigorous standards for proof and instead relied on intuition which often misguided them. The last 100 or so years the scientific method became paramount, rigorous proof required and repeatable testing to back it up. As such you do not see wholesale dumping of theories anymore like you did when we figured the earth orbited the sun and not the other way around. As such scientists more refine the theories so they get more accurate but not put them in the shredder completely. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is one such thing. It is a feature of the universe. You cannot sidestep it. As such, in the end, the Universe will turn into a dark place where literally nothing happens. No people. No stars. Nothing except a homogenized soup of particles hanging out. And it is not commonly accepted that there are trillions of universes besides ours. Some speculate about it but nothing remotely like being able to prove it. Just fun to speculate about over a pint at the pub. The Many Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is fun but not regarded as likely by most scientists (although they cannot prove it is wrong either so it remains as a possibility). Im sure the sciencists/people sure did think their science was rock solid in the last 100 years and were more thne likely proved wrong. What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong. Dont say something cannot happen, especially in a near infinite universe with creatures such as ourselves at the helm.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:09:00 - [64] does there really need to be a meaning for life to exist?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:12:00 - [65] Originally by: goodby4u What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong. If you are that confused over your physics I give up (suspect I am being baited now). -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:14:00 - [66] Originally by: Lord Zoran does there really need to be a meaning for life to exist? Nope. I am guessing they are asking if you need a meaning for life to be worthwhile. Frankly I am hard pressed to come up with any "reason" of enough cosmic significance that would satisfy. All I've got is that life itself has intrinsic value and no need to cast about for explanations outside of that. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:20:00 - [67] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong. If you are that confused over your physics I give up (suspect I am being baited now). Im not confused, thats what scientists believed in the 1950s...And this isnt me saying this, its the fricken history channel.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:28:00 - [68] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong. If you are that confused over your physics I give up (suspect I am being baited now). Im not confused, thats what scientists believed in the 1950s...And this isnt me saying this, its the fricken history channel. I am quite sure that is NOT what the History Channel said. If you cannot distinguish between the speed of light and the speed of sound discussions of thermodynamics and its implications are just right out. And they knew things went faster than the speed of sound before man ever went that fast. All they had to do was track a meteor zipping in of which there are plenty. They were just unsure if they could build a plane strong enough to pass the sound barrier. If they actually thought it was impossible I doubt they would have sent men to try and die doing it. They knew it was possible...just a matter of engineering. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Candice Bormardin Caldari Jouvulen Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:28:00 - [69] The meaning of life: Cheese! or 42 That's what I've learned from pop culture. As to religion. People tend to be real religious when they are faced with things they have no control over. Ancient peoples had hardly any control over their lives so they ate slept and breathed their religions. Today we have a lot more control so we tend to be less religious - at least those of us in societies with internet connections ... Material can act as a buffer between our selves and the cold, cruel universe. Often times, as people are dying horrible deaths they call out for their mothers or their God. Here I think is an answer to why they do it. They are utterly desperate, know they are dying, are in great pain and - are seeking comfort. They may well not get any but that's what they're pleading for. Someone to come along and make it all better - even if that isn't going to happen. When we are children - we look to our parents to take care of us - but as we become adults we're sorta on our own. My guess is that religion provides a form of comfort to people. That comfort doesn't depend on whether or not it's true. If it makes someone feel better to believe that they'll see their loved ones again in an after life - then the fact that it makes them feel better is reason enough. Losing a loved one is devastating. If someone can find comfort in their religion at such times ... far be it from me to begrudge them that small favor. As to arguing about what's real and what isn't ... we're still a fairly ignorant species. Thus trying to make determinations about things we know very little about is somewhat ineffective. But of course, if you enjoy doing it for it's own sake then that is reason enough. As far as individuals are concerned though, we each tend to assign meaning to things whether they have any objective meaning or not. If those assigned meanings give the individual a sense of purpose and give them a meaning to their lives - then that too is reason enough to do it. Of course, sitting back and philosophizing is a luxury many don't have. They're to busy just trying to cope. shrug __ Catchwords ... are necessary for all those who are unable to think for themselves ... whenever a catchword is uttered, ... question: Is this true? Hans von Seeckt, Reichsheer CIC 1920-26
omglollolol	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:29:00 - [70] Originally by: Terail Zoqial Eat, reproduce, survive. Anything beyond that is a bonus you're more than welcome to join my harem
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong. If you are that confused over your physics I give up (suspect I am being baited now). Im not confused, thats what scientists believed in the 1950s...And this isnt me saying this, its the fricken history channel. I am quite sure that is NOT what the History Channel said. If you cannot distinguish between the speed of light and the speed of sound discussions of thermodynamics and its implications are just right out. And they knew things went faster than the speed of sound before man ever went that fast. All they had to do was track a meteor zipping in of which there are plenty. They were just unsure if they could build a plane strong enough to pass the sound barrier. If they actually thought it was impossible I doubt they would have sent men to try and die doing it. They knew it was possible...just a matter of engineering. I know the difference, I read einsteins' reasoning on how stuff works.... But whilst it doesnt make sense to us now, thats what a good number of scientists believed in the 50s and who says in another 50 years we wont look just as foolish? Ofcourse I believe thermodynamics is truth, but thats just because it hasnt been disproved yet... I mean we havent even been to another planet yet and we are going to assume that a law is infallible? All science is subject to change.
Atnal	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:57:00 - [72] Edited by: Atnal on 09/05/2008 16:05:29 A box of chocolates? Even if life didn't have meaning then it's on wild roller coaster! The point is life has different meanings to different people so you can't say definitively this is what it is. I believe there's somewhat of a meaning being here but that's just me. If what you do in life brings you happiness then by all means.
TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Lord Zoran does there really need to be a meaning for life to exist? Yeah I just think God got bored one day, wanted to create the ultimate God sim where everyone was there to worship him. <I am religious believe it or not>
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:09:00 - [74] Originally by: goodby4u I know the difference, I read einsteins' reasoning on how stuff works.... But whilst it doesnt make sense to us now, thats what a good number of scientists believed in the 50s and who says in another 50 years we wont look just as foolish? No, you do not know the difference. The Speed of Sound is far, far different than the issues surrounding the Speed of Light. Scientists knew things could go faster than the speed of sound. What they were unsure of was whether they could overcome the engineering hurdles. They could build something strong enough to withstand the forces but, back then, it would be too heavy to fly. Additionally was apparent loss of control from air going over the flight surfaces as the speed of sound was approached. Planes would go out of control. But hell, they shot bullets that were faster than the speed of sound. Again, it was an engineering problem. The speed of light is different and very well tested many, many times. There are a variety of problems in trying to surpass the speed of light that simply cannot be overcome. Among them is if something with mass reaches light speed it would have infinite mass. To move an infinite mass you need an infinite amount of energy (so all the energy in the universe and then some). Also, time stops once you reach the speed of light. So, even if you somehow magically managed to do this you would be frozen in time till the universe itself ceased to exist. Also, distance shortens in the direction of travel. At the speed of light the entire universe would be infinitely thin. These are not things they merely suspect. These aspects have been tested over and over again with amazing precision. Hell, the time dilation dealie is used to make GPS work. Without accounting for the time distortions by the satellites movement through space your GPS would fail you. There is no getting around it. Now, it may be we can find a way to cheat via warping or folding space or travel through hyperspace/other dimensions or use wormholes. In these cases you will arrive where you are going faster than light going the long way around but you have not been accelerated to light speed. You are just taking a short cut through the universe. Quote: Ofcourse I believe thermodynamics is truth, but thats just because it hasnt been disproved yet... I mean we havent even been to another planet yet and we are going to assume that a law is infallible? We have sent many probes to other planets and besides that does not matter. The rules of the universe will work the same no matter where you are so testing here works just fine. The Laws of Thermodynamics will be the same wherever you go and it is an inescapable feature of this universe. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h We have sent many probes to other planets and besides that does not matter. The rules of the universe will work the same no matter where you are so testing here works just fine. The Laws of Thermodynamics will be the same wherever you go and it is an inescapable feature of this universe. I see, so you flew around the universe before? No? Listen, we could probe and use as many computer programs with our laws inputted as we want, that doesnt necessarily mean its the same throughout the universe, this just means that these laws work within OUR corner of knowledge. Like I said, science is subject to change, its quite possible that we would either find, or invent something in the future that could defy this law. Lastly, you are making the mistake of saying something is impossible, but as ive seen, things thought impossible in the past is just an everyday experience with us now.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:39:00 - [76] Originally by: goodby4u I see, so you flew around the universe before? No? Listen, we could probe and use as many computer programs with our laws inputted as we want, that doesnt necessarily mean its the same throughout the universe, this just means that these laws work within OUR corner of knowledge. There are no preferred or "special" places in the universe. All places are equivalent to any other place (with the possible exception of at the singularity in a Black Hole...no one quite knows how to figure what happens there but of course those singularities are blocked from the rest of the universe so even if you go in to find it is different you can never tell anyone about it...God abhors a naked singularity). Why would you think there are unique places in the universe where the laws of physics differ? Indeed such a thing would actually denote a different universe which by definition would be separate from our own (and if there are other universes it is possible the laws governing it are different than ours and in fact one of the goals of physics is to determine if the laws governing our universe had to happen that way or are just a colossal lucky roll of cosmic dice). Quote: Like I said, science is subject to change, its quite possible that we would either find, or invent something in the future that could defy this law. No, you won't. Saying we will find an exception to breaking the speed of light (note this does not include traveling through a worm hole or such) is like saying we will eventually learn that 2 + 2 = 7. Just...not....going...to...happen. Very well undertsood. Very well tested to absurd precision. Tested decades over and over and over. Answers are always spot on and perfectly in line with predictions. Quote: Lastly, you are making the mistake of saying something is impossible, but as ive seen, things thought impossible in the past is just an everyday experience with us now. Breaking the speed of light is impossible. If you do manage it you will destroy the universe (your infinite mass would cause the universe to collapse). It is not a matter of we just not have thought of a way to build a spaceship and engine to do it. There is nothing that can. Our hope for traveling the universe will lie in perhaps finding shortcuts via hyperspace or warp drives and so on. While no one today can figure how such things could even work I'll allow that this may be a case of who knows what tomorrow will bring and may someday be feasible. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:42:00 - [77] Edited by: goodby4u on 09/05/2008 16:43:04 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u I see, so you flew around the universe before? No? Listen, we could probe and use as many computer programs with our laws inputted as we want, that doesnt necessarily mean its the same throughout the universe, this just means that these laws work within OUR corner of knowledge. There are no preferred or "special" places in the universe. All places are equivalent to any other place (with the possible exception of at the singularity in a Black Hole...no one quite knows how to figure what happens there but of course those singularities are blocked from the rest of the universe so even if you go in to find it is different you can never tell anyone about it...God abhors a naked singularity). Why would you think there are unique places in the universe where the laws of physics differ? Indeed such a thing would actually denote a different universe which by definition would be separate from our own (and if there are other universes it is possible the laws governing it are different than ours and in fact one of the goals of physics is to determine if the laws governing our universe had to happen that way or are just a colossal lucky roll of cosmic dice). Quote: Like I said, science is subject to change, its quite possible that we would either find, or invent something in the future that could defy this law. No, you won't. Saying we will find an exception to breaking the speed of light (note this does not include traveling through a worm hole or such) is like saying we will eventually learn that 2 + 2 = 7. Just...not....going...to...happen. Very well undertsood. Very well tested to absurd precision. Tested decades over and over and over. Answers are always spot on and perfectly in line with predictions. Quote: Lastly, you are making the mistake of saying something is impossible, but as ive seen, things thought impossible in the past is just an everyday experience with us now. Breaking the speed of light is impossible. If you do manage it you will destroy the universe (your infinite mass would cause the universe to collapse). It is not a matter of we just not have thought of a way to build a spaceship and engine to do it. There is nothing that can. Our hope for traveling the universe will lie in perhaps finding shortcuts via hyperspace or warp drives and so on. While no one today can figure how such things could even work I'll allow that this may be a case of who knows what tomorrow will bring and may someday be feasible. Wait huh? I know we cant go past the speed of light... I never said any different. Also in order for something to be scientific law it must be proven among other things, you cannot prove that other places in our universe are the same.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:50:00 - [78] Originally by: goodby4u Wait huh? I know we cant go past the speed of light... I never said any different. Also in order for something to be scientific law it must be proven among other things, you cannot prove that other places in our universe are the same. You posted in post #63: "What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong." Your mass becomes infinite at the speed of light. I do not need to prove that other places are the same since it is more than reasonable to suppose that they are the same as regards physical laws. If you want to make the extraordinary claim that physical laws may change as we go from place to place it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence of why that would be so. Also, before you start on your proof read up on the Cosmological Principle which, simply stated, says: "On large spatial scales, the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic. Or, put another way, the universe is the same everywhere on a large scale." -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:55:00 - [79] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u Wait huh? I know we cant go past the speed of light... I never said any different. Also in order for something to be scientific law it must be proven among other things, you cannot prove that other places in our universe are the same. You posted in post #63: "What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong." Your mass becomes infinite at the speed of light. I do not need to prove that other places are the same since it is more than reasonable to suppose that they are the same as regards physical laws. If you want to make the extraordinary claim that physical laws may change as we go from place to place it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence of why that would be so. Also, before you start on your proof read up on the Cosmological Principle which, simply stated, says: "On large spatial scales, the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic. Or, put another way, the universe is the same everywhere on a large scale." So your logic is based on logic of others that made an educated guess? Also I said they THOUGHT it was impossible, it wasnt... But I never said it was possible to go past the speed of light... Well let me rephrase that it is in theory possible but would take darn near the universes' total energy and would detroy it all in the process.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:26:00 - [80] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 09/05/2008 18:34:53 it is unknowable with the intellect because it is not dual nor non-dual have fun with ongoing discussion about the nothing leading to ? yes nothing ! i have had enough of stuffing things into a blackhole of nothingness-evrythingness............
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:41:00 - [81] Originally by: LUH 3471 Edited by: LUH 3471 on 09/05/2008 18:39:48 it is unknowable with the intellect because it wether is not dual nor non-dual have fun with an ongoing discussion about the nothing leading to ? yes nothing ! beautifull ! but you know how you get there faster ? just be still. But its nowhere near as fun.
kor anon Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:01:00 - [82] Edited by: kor anon on 09/05/2008 19:02:51 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u Wait huh? I know we cant go past the speed of light... I never said any different. Also in order for something to be scientific law it must be proven among other things, you cannot prove that other places in our universe are the same. You posted in post #63: "What about the 1950s where the majority of scientists believed it wasnt possible to go past the speed of sound because if you do your mass becomes infinite... Im sure they had proof to back it up but they were wrong." Your mass becomes infinite at the speed of light. I do not need to prove that other places are the same since it is more than reasonable to suppose that they are the same as regards physical laws. If you want to make the extraordinary claim that physical laws may change as we go from place to place it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence of why that would be so. Also, before you start on your proof read up on the Cosmological Principle which, simply stated, says: "On large spatial scales, the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic. Or, put another way, the universe is the same everywhere on a large scale." the cosmalogical principle is a law applied to the universe as a model that most fits the actions that we observe. This does not mean it is correct, it just means this is the most useful model until a new one comes along
Candice Bormardin Caldari Jouvulen Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:01:00 - [83] Uh ... two things ... 1) Chuck Yeager "broke the sound barrier on October 14, 1947." 2) There is a lot we understand about the universe but there is also a lot we don't understand. There may even be things we don't even know enough about to realize we don't understand them. What we can do is try and explain what we are seeing with what we do know. Thus models as above. Now ... going from understanding our universe to being able to change it's behavior ... isn't something I'd count on human beings ever being able to do. __ Catchwords ... are necessary for all those who are unable to think for themselves ... whenever a catchword is uttered, ... question: Is this true? Hans von Seeckt, Reichsheer CIC 1920-26
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Candice Bormardin Uh ... two things ... 1) Chuck Yeager "broke the sound barrier on October 14, 1947." 2) There is a lot we understand about the universe but there is also a lot we don't understand. There may even be things we don't even know enough about to realize we don't understand them. What we can do is try and explain what we are seeing with what we do know. Thus models as above. Now ... going from understanding our universe to being able to change it's behavior ... isn't something I'd count on human beings ever being able to do. Whoops your right, I guess I was thinking about the 40s.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:09:00 - [85] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: LUH 3471 Edited by: LUH 3471 on 09/05/2008 18:39:48 it is unknowable with the intellect because it wether is not dual nor non-dual have fun with an ongoing discussion about the nothing leading to ? yes nothing ! beautifull ! but you know how you get there faster ? just be still. But its nowhere near as fun. oh then you havent put your feet in the ocean yet
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:11:00 - [86] Originally by: LUH 3471 Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: LUH 3471 Edited by: LUH 3471 on 09/05/2008 18:39:48 it is unknowable with the intellect because it wether is not dual nor non-dual have fun with an ongoing discussion about the nothing leading to ? yes nothing ! beautifull ! but you know how you get there faster ? just be still. But its nowhere near as fun. oh then you havent put your feet in the ocean yet I live about 300 feet away from the ocean...
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:26:00 - [87] Originally by: goodby4u So your logic is based on logic of others that made an educated guess? Better than your guess which is not even an educated one and besides there is actually observational evidence supporting the notion of the Cosmological Principle. There is zero evidence for your view. Quote: Also I said they THOUGHT it was impossible, it wasnt... But I never said it was possible to go past the speed of light... Well let me rephrase that it is in theory possible but would take darn near the universes' total energy and would detroy it all in the process. They NEVER thought it was "impossible" to break the sound barrier. They could do it firing bullets. They were unsure if they could design a plane that could stay in control while breaching the sound barrier. That is an engineering problem. Think about it...if they thought it was impossible why would so many have tried and tried again to do it (more than a few losing their lives in the attempt)? And no, accelerating a mass to the speed of light isn't even in theory possible with ludicrous amounts of energy because you need infinite energy to do it so ludicrous amounts barely begins to get you there. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:53:00 - [88] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: goodby4u So your logic is based on logic of others that made an educated guess? Better than your guess which is not even an educated one and besides there is actually observational evidence supporting the notion of the Cosmological Principle. There is zero evidence for your view. Quote: Also I said they THOUGHT it was impossible, it wasnt... But I never said it was possible to go past the speed of light... Well let me rephrase that it is in theory possible but would take darn near the universes' total energy and would detroy it all in the process. They NEVER thought it was "impossible" to break the sound barrier. They could do it firing bullets. They were unsure if they could design a plane that could stay in control while breaching the sound barrier. That is an engineering problem. Think about it...if they thought it was impossible why would so many have tried and tried again to do it (more than a few losing their lives in the attempt)? And no, accelerating a mass to the speed of light isn't even in theory possible with ludicrous amounts of energy because you need infinite energy to do it so ludicrous amounts barely begins to get you there. I have tons of proof to prove my theory that we dont know if the universe is homogenious.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.05.09 22:00:00 - [89] I thought about the meaning of life extensively over the years. It's a nonsense question to even ask, at first, because how exactly do you quantify "meaning". I looked at the aspirations of the modern day man. It was this that opened my eyes. All the things we aspire toward, all the things society calls the ideal, make no goddamn sense. Our lives begin at their apex, and from there, it's a steady descent downward. At no time is life better, then when we are ignorant of what it takes to be alive. Then, we grow up, and begin shackling ourselves to these fabulous ideals of a "good life" - graduate, get a job, buy a car, find a pretty girl, marry her, buy a house, crap out some kids, then slowly waste away. Upon this precise moment of realization, I discovered the true meaning of life, the one hidden behind all the social mores and recommendations. The meaning of life is to live life however you god-damned please, and in whichever fashion brings you the most reward. For some, that's graduating, getting jobs, buying cars, finding pretty girls, marrying them, buying a house, crapping out some kids, and wasting away. It will not be for me. I have already abandoned my previous career field, dental technology - a well paying and secure job, in favour of writing books. Why? Because it feels good. I got rid of my car, because I never really liked driving. I won't marry, because I change girlfriends every couple weeks or months, and haven't found anyone I could stand tolerating for longer, much less marry for the rest of my life. I will not have children, because I hate children, and I want to live my own life - not be turned into a life support mechanism for 18 years while my ungrateful bastard of a child ****es away what little I earn. To sum it up, I will live for myself, seeking only my own pleasure, my own reward, and no-one else's - and that is the meaning of life: the realization that nobody else matters but you.
Mother Clanger M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:20:00 - [90] The meaning of life is to give life meaning.
Dravius Luxor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.10 14:18:00 - [91] You might not like it, but here it is: We are simply the planet Earth's reproductive organ. We are extremely complex, but follow the same basic principle of most reproductive sytems; spread, fertilise, grow, repeat. A plant has seeds, a planet has sentient autonomous lifeforms. Now, we may have free will, but only to a certain degree. We are almost unrealistically compelled to visit the stars! "The grass is always greener". In my opinion our urge to colonise other planets, and our obsesssion with space travel back up my hypothesis that we are merely 'seeds'. We have no reason to leave, we haven't even any reason to evolve - we have everything we need right here. But we are driven to find new potential homes, and by no more than our fear that one day humanity might die out! Oh noes! This will not have any effect on any of us individually, for we will have died already. It's human nature to want to go to the stars. But why? Because it is our purpose, our destiny, our "meaning of life". We are a complex, well-designed (but as of yet unfinished) reproductive tool which our planet and home will eventually use to fertilise other planets. This will happen when our intelligence has reached a level at which we can competently travel between star systems. Although, competence isn't even necessarily that essential. If one man and one woman arrive on a new world relatively intact - well thats all you need for a new race! Voila, we now have a new, living world. Ever wondered why we live in perfect symbiance with so many single-celled organisms? We will act as a delivery system for them. It would also be relatively safe to assume that this man and woman are prime examples of the best our population has to offer at the time - the fittest, most intelligent and motivated. Yes Akita T, we are the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities, but that's the big picture. Rather, I would say, our planet and position is that unavoidable conclusion - we are what was allowed to come into existence because of our circumstances. We are indeed, as I think you imply, merely a mathematical necessity, a product of a universe with infinite possibilities - but on a more personal level, and to answer the age old question "What is my purpose?", I believe it is simply to be the best we can be, choose the best mate, and create little versions of ourselves! In this way, we can fulfil our purpose by playing our individual roles in the ongoing trial and error design process that is the Earth's courtship of it's fellow planets. And, um, that is my opinion...
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.10 14:45:00 - [92] Istvaan said it. I usually don't give a damn about these kind of topics, as I have to put up with all kind of random nonsense people spew out, but I have to post here just because my view was pretty much summarized there. _______ ◕◡◕
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.10 14:47:00 - [93] Originally by: Mother Clanger The meaning of life is to give life meaning. This has to be the best worded and truest statement so far. It really is just this easy in my most honest agreement. Slade stands and salutes Mother Clanger. O_\
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.10 16:42:00 - [94] Originally by: Great Artista Istvaan said it. I usually don't give a damn about these kind of topics, as I have to put up with all kind of random nonsense people spew out, but I have to post here just because my view was pretty much summarized there. Random nonsense? You mean like a post that propounds a profoundly cynical and morally bankrupt notion? -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:29:00 - [95] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Random nonsense? You mean like a post that propounds a profoundly cynical and morally bankrupt notion? Actually, I was thinking more like posts like yours... But I'm gonna leave it here, I hope you didn't get offended. _______ ◕◡◕
P'uck	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:41:00 - [96] Originally by: Akita T Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes ? And does it really matter ? Heh. I dont think it really makes a difference. When i look at all the finely balanced numbers that explain why life is possible on earth, or why we can see total eclipses of our sun and so on and so forth... i begin to feel there is no real difference between the deity of your choice and "coincidence". the synergetic effects of all those coincidences are breathtakingly beautiful, so unbelieveably pretty, that you could call it a religious experience when you notice it. Once i read humans have a strong urge to know where they come from, why they are and where they are going. i believe i have answered this for me, and i believe if i told you, even if i was completely right (lulz) it wouldnt make any difference, since you need to produce your satori yourself. but for the sake of the thread: i think the meaning of life is to exist. we're just here to notice the dead matter that builds our playing field. everything from there comes down to choice, i believe.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:45:00 - [97] Could be the meaning of life is to find the answer to that very question, it's certainly something many people feel compelled to try at least once in their lives.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.10 18:21:00 - [98] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Random nonsense? You mean like a post that propounds a profoundly cynical and morally bankrupt notion? Actually, I was thinking more like posts like yours... But I'm gonna leave it here, I hope you didn't get offended. Which post and what was "random" or "nonsense" about it? More like your position is indefensible but feels good somehow as long as you do not examine it too closely. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Mia Morningstar	Posted - 2008.05.10 23:03:00 - [99] CARPE DIEM!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:00:00 - [100] - I see stupid people - In your dreams ? - No. Around here. They don't know they're stupid - How often do you see them ? - All the time. They're everywhere ! The meaning of life when I'm angry. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:28:00 - [101] Edited by: HankMurphy on 11/05/2008 18:32:20 a better question is why do ppl insist there must be some great meaning to it all? why is it heresy to think that we just 'are'? I think its much more healthy to think that way than to fall into some big logical fallacy that insecure ppl have dreamed up since the dawn of man. Because we haven't actually met anyone more developed than us (god included) we think we are so much more special than our pet dogs or the tree in our yard? that all of life is so precious and amazing, but that the rest of the universe is dull and empty? I say it's all equally amazing, and w/o any secret high falutin' meaning. Does a living cell have meaning where a star or a rock doesn't? You think therefore you are? If you dont think, you still are, you just dont realize it :P i cant answer that cliche question because the question is a crock of bull. i can explain the question however. everyone wants to think life and themselves are so special because they are scared the truth is that they aren't. stick that in your pipe and smoke it /edited cause i can ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.12 06:29:00 - [102] Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 11/05/2008 18:32:20 a better question is why do ppl insist there must be some great meaning to it all? why is it heresy to think that we just 'are'? I think its much more healthy to think that way than to fall into some big logical fallacy that insecure ppl have dreamed up since the dawn of man. Because we haven't actually met anyone more developed than us (god included) we think we are so much more special than our pet dogs or the tree in our yard? that all of life is so precious and amazing, but that the rest of the universe is dull and empty? I say it's all equally amazing, and w/o any secret high falutin' meaning. Does a living cell have meaning where a star or a rock doesn't? You think therefore you are? If you dont think, you still are, you just dont realize it :P i cant answer that cliche question because the question is a crock of bull. i can explain the question however. everyone wants to think life and themselves are so special because they are scared the truth is that they aren't. stick that in your pipe and smoke it /edited cause i can The reason we think of these things is the same reason we look up at the stars, because we can and is something that seems impossible to figure out. I believe since we have conscious thought we are compelled to think of the future/past/sky/meaning of life because its just something to ponder.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:57:00 - [103] I found my meaning of life... again. Get drunk and flame stupid people And then flame not-so-stupid people to illicit a response worth fighting over __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.

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