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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:31:00 - [1] Does there have to be any ? Or, better said, do YOU need any ? It is man's greatest fear, apparently, that his life is meaningless. People find refuge in anything from religion, phylosophy to charlatans claiming enlightenment, just to they feel there is a greater purpose, a meaning to their life. Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes ? And does it really matter ? P.S. Yes, I am drunk. I get phylosophical when drunk. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:35:00 - [2] Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 17:47:04 First to say 42 dies by Hello Kitty avalanche. Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Akita T Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? Not a problem. To be in a position to have that answer if there is no meaning you won't know it, if there is then all is well. Either way you're covered. In short have another drink now. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:39:00 - [4] 42 doooh ____________________________________________ And yes I'll be gone soon.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 17:41:54 Well, I personally see no reason why life should have any meaning at all, any greater purpose or such But I love to hear people trying to argue that it isn't so. Yes, I do believe life is only what you make of it, there's no judgement after death, there's no life after death, there's only nothingness. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:41:00 - [6] Who says life has a meaning? We could die out like the dinosaurs tomorrow, and the universe would not care. Life has no meaning, but that doesnt give you a license to be emo. It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Haraldhardrade Life has no meaning, but that doesnt give you a license to be emo. Quite the contrary If life has no meaning, then everything you do has a meaning... for you... and for those you "touch". By having no greater purpose, you are free to find your own purpose. By not playing by somebody's set rules, you can play with your own ruleset. You're not living in a rail-shooter world, you live in a sandbox. Everything is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less... Well, to be honest, I was kind of expecting a "duuh!" reaction from most people that play EVE. Afterall, EVE is just a sandbox too __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:46:00 - [8] Sucks you gotta be emo apparantly to talk about the meaning of life. Sucks more you gotta be an alt to post your views. ____________________________________________ And yes I'll be gone soon.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:46:00 - [9] Hey! I said what you think already! VALIDATE ME! Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:47:00 - [10] Personally I've come to the conclusion that there is no meaning to life other than life itself, it creates its own meaning. Our own personal lives have to be the same, there is no meaning except whatever meaning you apply to it yourself. P.S: Yeah, I've spent many drunken nights discussing the more "odd" systems and questions of Philosophy. For some reason the discussion always gravitates towards Wittgenstein and the process of defining infinite and undefined systems from within themselves. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Sereifex Daku Trill Crabulas Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:47:00 - [11] Originally by: pwnedgato Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Ditto. If there was a single point in life then we would be slaves to a higher power. we make our own objectives, and so we are free (to a point). Personally, I have set myself the opbjective of sampling the many pleasures of life and attempt to comprehend as much of the universe as possible before I die. I like to get my moneys worth.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:48:00 - [12] Drunk Philosophy...Slade warmly remebers drunk and high convesations were much better then lame old frat parties. I would say that there is probably no "real" meaning for life other then to live. But I would also say that this does not disqualify the idea that people should define their own meaning, grow in whatever one endeavors, and to not stagnate. Also, if one feels that they have found their meaning then they should try to help others find theirs without dictating certain process or forms. *Slad wishes Slade
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Quite the contrary If life has no meaning, then everything you do has a meaning... for you... and for those you "touch". By having no greater purpose, you are free to find your own purpose. By not playing by somebody's set rules, you can play with your own ruleset. You're not living in a rail-shooter world, you live in a sandbox. Everything is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less... Well, to be honest, I was kind of expecting a "duuh!" reaction from most people that play EVE. Afterall, EVE is just a sandbox too I didnt say you were being emo btw, I was speaking in general terms It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:52:00 - [14] Originally by: pwnedgato Hey! I said what you think already! VALIDATE ME! You have been granted validation Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Yeah, I've spent many drunken nights discussing the more "odd" systems and questions of Philosophy. For some reason the discussion always gravitates towards Wittgenstein and the process of defining infinite and undefined systems from within themselves. Over here, mostly Nietzsche Funny thing is, we share the same birthday too. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Shirazz Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:57:00 - [15] Duh. But seriously, I pretty much agree with everything you have said here. I take by this you are an atheist then? They tend to be more 'down to earth' than the theistic types. PS: I go to a christian school and am still not sure if christianity is a monotheistic or a polytheistic religeon, one of my chaplins argues that the trinity are defined seperatly and takes the three in one thing as a sort of 'team' thing I suppose, while the other is adamant they are all one person (wtf? how can jesus be the son of jesus AND jesus? Dont say the obvious please as it would probs get the thread locked). Clarification anyone? Behold Castra Noor, Failed Troller!
Mystri	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [16] Well, you should always try to look on the bright side of life and try not to turn to the dark side. Oh, and don't take yourself too seriously. I foresee this thread turning religious and being locked btw. Mystri
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Akita T Over here, mostly Nietzsche [:lol: Yeah. Nietzsche is a good one. But whenever our philosophy group discuss Nietzsche we end up talking about his literary technique of intentional semantic shift, and then it's inevitable that you end up discussing the younger Wittgensteins language theory. Well, at least it is when you're drunk ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Sereifex Daku Originally by: pwnedgato Personally I believe life is meaningless. That is until you create one for yourself. Ditto. If there was a single point in life then we would be slaves to a higher power. we make our own objectives, and so we are free (to a point). Personally, I have set myself the opbjective of sampling the many pleasures of life and attempt to comprehend as much of the universe as possible before I die. I like to get my moneys worth. Agreed. As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. Life is a prison of earthly pains and joys; pains and fears are one of the strongest weighing forces in human society's that destroys ourself or holds us down. If you dismiss this force, you control your destiny. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Irish Whiskey Caldari Finite Horizon Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:10:00 - [19] Denis Leary said it best: Quote: Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to fscking work, ok!?
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Amastat As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in transcendent ethics (as in for example buddhism and certain forms of utilitarianism and philosophical egoism), then I'm ok with that. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in antisocial egoism, then I make sure that I have a nice and hefty steel pipe within reach. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:21:00 - [21] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:26:25 Originally by: Shirazz But seriously, I pretty much agree with everything you have said here. I take by this you are an atheist then? They tend to be more 'down to earth' than the theistic types. PS: I go to a christian school and am still not sure if christianity is a monotheistic or a polytheistic religeon[...] Clarification anyone? I started as an orthodox christian (as a kid). All it took to turn me agnostic was reading the Bible a couple of times (and I mean the whole thing, especially the old testament). Recently however (not that long ago, to be honest) I've actually turned atheist... and it's only getting stronger (and more combative against religion in general, but I digress). As for religion... any religion, not just Christianity or any other of the Abrahamic religions... isn't it eventually just a desperate cry for approval from the people uncapable to grasp the concept of the "lack of meaning" of life ? As for debating wether Christianity is a monotheistic or politheistic religion, I find it equally challenging intellectually to debating wether the first three (ep.4-6) Star Wars are canon and the last ones (ep.1-3) retcons, or if they're part of the greater story it was initially intended to be I mean, seriously, we're talking fictional characters here... why does one have to be more important than the other, objectively speaking ? Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Akita T Over here, mostly Nietzsche [:lol: Yeah. Nietzsche is a good one. But whenever our philosophy group discuss Nietzsche we end up talking about his literary technique of intentional semantic shift, and then it's inevitable that you end up discussing the younger Wittgensteins language theory. Well, at least it is when you're drunk Strange... we usually end up talking about his ideas about the disconnection between religion and morals. I guess I'd mostly be my fault though He argues (or, at least, that's my take on it) that man does not need to be religious to have moral values. Moreso, he argues that religion actually stands between man and man's pursuit of higher moral values. And stuff like that. On which I happend to agree. Or, maybe, just read between the lines, even if he didn't mean it like that. Who knows ? __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:27:00 - [22] I like how the poet Antonio Machado put it: "Caminante, no hay camino Se hace camino al andar" Which roughly translates to: "Traveller, there is no road You make your path as you walk"
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Amastat As for man's fears, fear of live being meaningless - if you learn how to at command free yourself from empathy, wither it be harsh realties, or undesirable opportunists/parasites, or just your own pains - you could do anything. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in transcendent ethics (as in for example buddhism and certain forms of utilitarianism and philosophical egoism), then I'm ok with that. If you're talking "free yourself from empathy" as in antisocial egoism, then I make sure that I have a nice and hefty steel pipe within reach. No, the first one xD Basically - don't let life and earthly pains run you. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Natsume Chidori	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:37:00 - [24] (Alt of Tarminic, BTW) Originally by: Akita T Now, I ask of you... what if in the end, life has no meaning at all ? What if we are indeed just a cosmic accident, the unavoidable conclusion of infinitesimal probability combined with a nearly infinite pool of possibilities ? What if we are one of the few (or many, or only) intelligent life forms in this (one, only, or one of many) universes? And does it really matter ? Life may have a universal meaning on a grand scale. We may be the creations of some omnipotent being who crafted us to ask these questions and amuse or entertain him. Then again, we may not be. But why let that get us down? Life has meaning to you, doesn't it? We live, and we're interested in continuing to live, and we give our lives meaning. Personally, I want to design kickass videogames with absolutely immersive stories and characters. Will anything I've said or done be around or remembered a thousand years from now? Probably not. But who cares? I want to enjoy life and have a positive impact on the world, regardless of how long people will remember it for or how long the world is around. Getting caught up on anything more than that is outside the scope of what you should be worried about.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:39:00 - [25] However, here's the next conundrum... If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it... ...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ? Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general. I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality. I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools. Is that what madness feels like ? __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:42:00 - [26] Edited by: pwnedgato on 08/05/2008 18:42:12 Originally by: Akita T I started as an orthodox christian (as a kid). All it took to turn me agnostic was reading the Bible a couple of times (and I mean the whole thing, especially the old testament). Recently however (not that long ago, to be honest) I've actually turned atheist... and it's only getting stronger (and more combative against religion in general, but I digress). As for religion... any religion, not just Christianity or any other of the Abrahamic religions... isn't it eventually just a desperate cry for approval from the people uncapable to grasp the concept of the "lack of meaning" of life ? I find anyone who is actually "against" any religion or lack of religion to be far worse than any "regular" believer or atheist. I used to think of the Roman Catholic church as a great evil that held back progress for centuries. Now I do not. I simply realize it was expedient to those who made the decisions at the time, and they just happened to have a religious justification for it. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T However, here's the next conundrum... If you are aware of the fact life has no meaning, and it is only what you make of it... ...what's there to stop you from actually and willfully STILL picking "no meaning" ? Personally, I'm very disillusioned with the world in general. I find it to be overwhelmingly populated with people of (self-perceived) intellectually inferior beings, that find happiness in their own little delusions of reality. I find it increasingly difficult with each passing day to stand up against the world as (again, self-perceived) "person who knows" against a mass of ignorants and fools. Is that what madness feels like ? After reading the whole post I deleted my first line since I do not want to instigate anything but I will leave the following in. Dude you have helped alot of people in thsi game with your clear and conscise writting. I seriously doubt that your real life is any diferent. Times are changing and I think the fight against organised religion is only getting stronger. Ultimately, if you are alive and perform actions you will have some form of effect on the surrounding environment(good or bad) so ulitmately you do have some form of meaning wether you choose it or not. Forget the ignorant fools and and let them blow by like the wind. Slade
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:47:00 - [28] Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:53:43 Edited by: Akita T on 08/05/2008 18:51:46 Originally by: pwnedgato I find anyone who is actually "against" any religion or lack of religion to be far worse than any "regular" believer or atheist. I used to think of the Roman Catholic church as a great evil that held back progress for centuries. Now I do not. I simply realize it was expedient to those who made the decisions at the time, and they just happened to have a religious justification for it. Don't confuse the disdain I hold for religion in general with a dismissal of its accomplishments. I do not hold any more grudge towards religion as, say, the doctor that draws blood to alleviate hypertension problems in a patient. Religion might have had a purpose, a good purpose, in the dawn of time... and it might still have a (good) purpose for some people. But for the world of tomorrow, religion is an archaic tool, that would best be discarded in favor of something else, of a more pragmatic view on life. I hope you understand where I'm going at with this... religion might still be mildly beneficial to humankind in general, but it's becoming less and less effective as a tool for civilisation... and as most other antiquated tools, it serves humanity best to discard it sonner rather than later in favour of better, modern tools. P.S. 6th beer and counting P.P.S. None of that USA "light beer" stuff. I mean the European, half-a-liter, 5%++ alcohool beer That's around "half a bottle of scotch". I drink when angry or sad. I might be an alcohoolic. Who cares anyway . __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:54:00 - [29] I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.08 18:58:00 - [30] Originally by: pwnedgato I understand where you are coming from. I think I can see the origin of our difference in point of view. You think humanity is for the most part smart enough to live on its own. I on the other hand believe that the vast majority of people are far too stupid to not have something like religion. Even if they don't actively participate in it they still tend to learn from it at a young age. The sad thing is that I do believe the same thing... that most people are simply too stupid to survive in civilisation without religion, as things stand right now. What I'm saying is that, even more sadly, the people in power do not care for (either out of ignorance or self-interest) to change that. In the end, it all comes down to education. Even stupid people can grasp reward and punishment, and we're past the point where that reward/punishment HAS to come from a "supreme being" that can see/hear/feel anything you do or think. Criminals will always be criminals, with or without religion, and ordinary people will still be "decent human beings" without religion too. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !

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