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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 01:32:02
While in concept involving the empires in war is GREAT... I love it, should have always been there, the way this expansion is being done is very much flawed.
Essentially the whole point of it is to bring non pvp'ers into pvp.
It freezes out the vast majority of existing pvp'ers... WHY are space holding alliances being excluded? We all border empire. Why can't we side with them or fight against them?
I believe that if alliances were integrated that this truly could bridge the gap between empire and 0.0 by allowing non alliance members the opportunity to fight alongside 0.0 alliances in empire space, thus making contacts, and friends, and maybe getting invited into 0.0 alliances...
As it currently is conceived, I don't see this expansion being relevant past the point the participants realize they are merely cannon fodder for griefers. Existing pvp'ers coming in get nothing out of it, and in the end those you want to attract to pvp will get nothing but a negative experience, BECAUSE existing pvp'ers won't be a part of it.
What I'd love to see is CCP rework this so that faction warfare becomes a gamewide mechanic by allowing ALL to participate. This is a major system that should get the treatment it deserves.
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 01:32:02
While in concept involving the empires in war is GREAT... I love it, should have always been there, the way this expansion is being done is very much flawed.
Essentially the whole point of it is to bring non pvp'ers into pvp.
It freezes out the vast majority of existing pvp'ers... WHY are space holding alliances being excluded? We all border empire. Why can't we side with them or fight against them?
I believe that if alliances were integrated that this truly could bridge the gap between empire and 0.0 by allowing non alliance members the opportunity to fight alongside 0.0 alliances in empire space, thus making contacts, and friends, and maybe getting invited into 0.0 alliances...
As it currently is conceived, I don't see this expansion being relevant past the point the participants realize they are merely cannon fodder for griefers. Existing pvp'ers coming in get nothing out of it, and in the end those you want to attract to pvp will get nothing but a negative experience, BECAUSE existing pvp'ers won't be a part of it.
What I'd love to see is CCP rework this so that faction warfare becomes a gamewide mechanic by allowing ALL to participate. This is a major system that should get the treatment it deserves.
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Colonel Rykef
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:36:00 -
[3]
In short it is because all that would do would be to extend 0.0 to low sec with various alliance vying for control of it.
The idea here is to create an environment where there is not a huge fleet granted thats still going to occur but if i understand correctly it will be much harder for them to effectively gather and attack targets as the pvp will be limited to ship types
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Colonel Rykef
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:36:00 -
[4]
In short it is because all that would do would be to extend 0.0 to low sec with various alliance vying for control of it.
The idea here is to create an environment where there is not a huge fleet granted thats still going to occur but if i understand correctly it will be much harder for them to effectively gather and attack targets as the pvp will be limited to ship types
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jakke Logan
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 01:32:02
While in concept involving the empires in war is GREAT... I love it, should have always been there, the way this expansion is being done is very much flawed.
Essentially the whole point of it is to bring non pvp'ers into pvp.
It freezes out the vast majority of existing pvp'ers... WHY are space holding alliances being excluded? We all border empire. Why can't we side with them or fight against them?
I believe that if alliances were integrated that this truly could bridge the gap between empire and 0.0 by allowing non alliance members the opportunity to fight alongside 0.0 alliances in empire space, thus making contacts, and friends, and maybe getting invited into 0.0 alliances...
As it currently is conceived, I don't see this expansion being relevant past the point the participants realize they are merely cannon fodder for griefers. Existing pvp'ers coming in get nothing out of it, and in the end those you want to attract to pvp will get nothing but a negative experience, BECAUSE existing pvp'ers won't be a part of it.
What I'd love to see is CCP rework this so that faction warfare becomes a gamewide mechanic by allowing ALL to participate. This is a major system that should get the treatment it deserves.
See all I saw there was GREAT WHY BECAUSE CCP ALL. Seriously, what would happen if alliances as a whole were able to join up? I'll tell you what, all the solo players and small gangs would get their bums handed to them by massive lagfest alliance blobs all over empire. At least hold your complaining 'till the expansion is released for cryin' out loud.
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 01:32:02
While in concept involving the empires in war is GREAT... I love it, should have always been there, the way this expansion is being done is very much flawed.
Essentially the whole point of it is to bring non pvp'ers into pvp.
It freezes out the vast majority of existing pvp'ers... WHY are space holding alliances being excluded? We all border empire. Why can't we side with them or fight against them?
I believe that if alliances were integrated that this truly could bridge the gap between empire and 0.0 by allowing non alliance members the opportunity to fight alongside 0.0 alliances in empire space, thus making contacts, and friends, and maybe getting invited into 0.0 alliances...
As it currently is conceived, I don't see this expansion being relevant past the point the participants realize they are merely cannon fodder for griefers. Existing pvp'ers coming in get nothing out of it, and in the end those you want to attract to pvp will get nothing but a negative experience, BECAUSE existing pvp'ers won't be a part of it.
What I'd love to see is CCP rework this so that faction warfare becomes a gamewide mechanic by allowing ALL to participate. This is a major system that should get the treatment it deserves.
See all I saw there was GREAT WHY BECAUSE CCP ALL. Seriously, what would happen if alliances as a whole were able to join up? I'll tell you what, all the solo players and small gangs would get their bums handed to them by massive lagfest alliance blobs all over empire. At least hold your complaining 'till the expansion is released for cryin' out loud.
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:40:00 -
[7]
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:40:00 -
[8]
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 01:42:19
Originally by: Jakke Logan
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
Oh yes they will be facing pirate blobs, no doubt about that, but do we also want alliance blobs with all their blobbyenss and blobbery?
By any chance did you get your name from Tachyon?
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 01:42:19
Originally by: Jakke Logan
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
Oh yes they will be facing pirate blobs, no doubt about that, but do we also want alliance blobs with all their blobbyenss and blobbery?
By any chance did you get your name from Tachyon?
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Constance Harme
Originally by: Jakke Logan
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
Oh yes they will be facing pirate blobs, no doubt about that, but do we also want alliance blobs with all their blobbyenss and blobbery?
So you concede that they will be facing blobs.
So why is one blob (pirates) better than another (alliances)?
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Colonel Rykef
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:43:00 -
[12]
pirate blobs are significantly smaller than alliance blobs and also as i mentioned above they have some limits in place to make it a bit more even
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Constance Harme
Originally by: Jakke Logan
And they won't be facing pirate blobs?
Oh yes they will be facing pirate blobs, no doubt about that, but do we also want alliance blobs with all their blobbyenss and blobbery?
So you concede that they will be facing blobs.
So why is one blob (pirates) better than another (alliances)?
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Colonel Rykef
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:43:00 -
[14]
pirate blobs are significantly smaller than alliance blobs and also as i mentioned above they have some limits in place to make it a bit more even
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
So you concede that they will be facing blobs.
So why is one blob (pirates) better than another (alliances)?
I never said either was better, my point is that one blob is better than two blobs.
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
So you concede that they will be facing blobs.
So why is one blob (pirates) better than another (alliances)?
I never said either was better, my point is that one blob is better than two blobs.
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Colonel Rykef
pirate blobs are significantly smaller than alliance blobs and also as i mentioned above they have some limits in place to make it a bit more even
Any blob that outnumbers you is too big. You see, this is why the whole idea is flawed... To allow, heck, ENCOURAGE pirates to take advantage of these new mechanics will put the empire players really in a worse position than they are in now.
And you exclude alliances, many of which are ANTI pirate...
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Colonel Rykef
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:48:00 -
[18]
except if the pirates want to take advantage of this they need to be part of a faction, which means they are then open to being targeted by anyone else in the "battle zone" not to mention you have assumed that these pirates will all automatically have the correct size ship for this zone
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Any blob that outnumbers you is too big. You see, this is why the whole idea is flawed... To allow, heck, ENCOURAGE pirates to take advantage of these new mechanics will put the empire players really in a worse position than they are in now.
And you exclude alliances, many of which are ANTI pirate...
Your suggesting we fight blob with blob? As I said earlier I'd prefer to stick with one blob rather than two, and as Colonel Rykef has said pirate blobs are smaller than alliance blobs so.. do the math.
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Constance Harme
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Any blob that outnumbers you is too big. You see, this is why the whole idea is flawed... To allow, heck, ENCOURAGE pirates to take advantage of these new mechanics will put the empire players really in a worse position than they are in now.
And you exclude alliances, many of which are ANTI pirate...
Your suggesting we fight blob with blob? As I said earlier I'd prefer to stick with one blob rather than two, and as Colonel Rykef has said pirate blobs are smaller than alliance blobs so.. do the math.
Blobs are a fact of life in EVE. There will always be blobs.
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Gus Morgan
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:54:00 -
[21]
oh please, youre just grumpy because your alliance can't join the fun. I fully agree that big alliances would screw up FW and if you want to join, leave your alliance drama behind.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
KULT Production
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:59:00 -
[22]
Going with the RP thing...
0.0 alliances are a ragtag bunch of criminals living in outlawed space trying to build themselves their own empires there. They are essentially rivals of the 4 big empires.
A small 'allied to the minmatar republic' in your alliance info doesn't change that.
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Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gus Morgan
oh please, youre just grumpy because your alliance can't join the fun. I fully agree that big alliances would screw up FW and if you want to join, leave your alliance drama behind.
Why shouldn't I be upset if all alliance members get NOTHING out of this expansion?
Doesn't that make this expansion have ZERO value to me?
Yep.
As it stands now, "faction warfare" will be a joke months from now. "Yeah, they added faction warfare, but forgot to invite the pvp'ers... LOL"
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:07:38
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Gus Morgan
oh please, youre just grumpy because your alliance can't join the fun. I fully agree that big alliances would screw up FW and if you want to join, leave your alliance drama behind.
Why shouldn't I be upset if all alliance members get NOTHING out of this expansion?
Doesn't that make this expansion have ZERO value to me?
Yep.
As it stands now, "faction warfare" will be a joke months from now. "Yeah, they added faction warfare, but forgot to invite the pvp'ers... LOL"
I'm sorry but I dont think anyone is qualified to say what "will be" a joke at any point in the future. And as I understand it factional warfare isnt really for alliances anyway, its to help non pvpers to get into pvp. At least thats how I understand it.
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Killer Kelly
Caldari
Allied Tactical Unit
Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:09:00 -
[25]
I imagine that if CVA came out in mass to fight for the Amarr side, AAA would have a field day stationcamping in carriers with nobody to stop them.
___________
I Get Money in the Scalar Federation |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 02:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Constance Harme
Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:07:38
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Gus Morgan
oh please, youre just grumpy because your alliance can't join the fun. I fully agree that big alliances would screw up FW and if you want to join, leave your alliance drama behind.
Why shouldn't I be upset if all alliance members get NOTHING out of this expansion?
Doesn't that make this expansion have ZERO value to me?
Yep.
As it stands now, "faction warfare" will be a joke months from now. "Yeah, they added faction warfare, but forgot to invite the pvp'ers... LOL"
I'm sorry but I dont think anyone is qualified to say what "will be" a joke at any point in the future. And as I understand it factional warfare isnt really for alliances anyway, its to help non pvpers to get into pvp. At least thats how I understand it.
All I can say is that if members of pvp alliances get ZERO out of this expansion isn't the truth, CCP needs to be coming out with info to the contrary PRETTY DAMN FAST.
Because this expansion is a total zero for the people I play the game with.
Honestly, I think this expansion is a huge mistake as it's currently planned.
[-FOAD] Corp CEO |
Mavolio
White Nova Industries
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:19:00 -
[27]
I dont think we have any thing to worry about with big alliances steamrolling over a war region. If for example alliance A send 1000 piolts to fight for amarr then alliance B will just walk in and steal all the systems/space they have left undefended while they mess about in low sec.
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B1G DAVE
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:19:00 -
[28]
The thing is, its not just huge 0.0 alliances being frozen out of it. It also includes the small lowsec or highsec alliances, for example veto. Although we are essentially one corporation, because we use an alliance structure we are excluded from the feature :(
___________________________________________
Our Home, Our Corp, Our VETO
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KarGard
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
All I can say is that if members of pvp alliances get ZERO out of this expansion isn't the truth, CCP needs to be coming out with info to the contrary PRETTY DAMN FAST.
You get a hoard of new players in lowsec to shoot at as long as CCP's optimisim on people partaking in FW is right.
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milllo
Billy and the Boingers
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:21:00 -
[30]
Low sec players have been complaining that targets in lowsec are too rare, leaving them to fight amoungst themselves.
This expansion addresses that problem by allowing them to prey on lots of unsuspecting newbies. Pirates don't have to join the factions, they just have to wait for the militia members to come into lowsec to enter complexes and do other content provided in the expansion.
Once the playerbase sees that feeding pirates is the whole point of the expansion, most will go back to what they were doing and the expansion will be forgotten.
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