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How many others think this expansion will be forgotten after a week?

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Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:21:00 - [31] Originally by: KarGard Originally by: Jakke Logan All I can say is that if members of pvp alliances get ZERO out of this expansion isn't the truth, CCP needs to be coming out with info to the contrary PRETTY DAMN FAST. You get a hoard of new players in lowsec to shoot at as long as CCP's optimisim on people partaking in FW is right. That optimism is as misguided as buying lottery tickets as your retirement plan. [-FOAD] Corp CEO
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:24:25 Originally by: Jakke Logan All I can say is that if members of pvp alliances get ZERO out of this expansion isn't the truth, CCP needs to be coming out with info to the contrary PRETTY DAMN FAST. Because this expansion is a total zero for the people I play the game with. Honestly, I think this expansion is a huge mistake as it's currently planned. Considering you get the expansion for free I dont think its that big a problem, besides alliances have more things to worry about like maintaining their own space, I dont really get anything out of it either as I never pvp and never plan to so.. yeah. And again, as I understand it factional warfare is to help non-pvp'ers to get into pvp.
Gus Morgan Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:24:00 - [33] so just because YOU dont get anything out of this expansion noone should, thats abit selfish isnt it? Do you whine this much every time an expansion comes out that focuses on what you arent doing at the moment? Just be happy that they are expanding diffrent aspects of the game, one day you might grow tired of 0.0 and then it might be nice to try something new, and if not let us atleast enjoy it without the big multibillion alliances steamrolling everyone else and making it their new parkinglot for motherships and titans.
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Gus Morgan so just because YOU dont get anything out of this expansion noone should, thats abit selfish isnt it? Be fair now he didn't say that, he said he's not pleased with it, not that he wants it gone (though I suspect thats whats to follow).
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:29:00 - [35] someone quick say blob again...
KarGard	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: KarGard You get a hoard of new players in lowsec to shoot at as long as CCP's optimisim on people partaking in FW is right. That optimism is as misguided as buying lottery tickets as your retirement plan. I agree, I don't see many mission runners willing to take the standing hit let alone lose ships and have to deal with pvp in highsec. However Devs beleive otherwise. To be honest a lot of what they are saying reminds me of the rhetoric about lvl 5 missions. But, who knows. FW might prove to be exactally the fun ride that they claim it will be.
Gus Morgan Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Constance Harme Originally by: Gus Morgan so just because YOU dont get anything out of this expansion noone should, thats abit selfish isnt it? Be fair now he didn't say that, he said he's not pleased with it, not that he wants it gone (though I suspect thats whats to follow). well he basically said he wants it to be the property of alliance warfare which will pretty much mean it would become impossible to participate in for the little man.
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Gus Morgan well he basically said he wants it to be the property of alliance warfare which will pretty much mean it would become impossible to participate in for the little man. Unfortunately it might prove that way without 00 alliances, as I imagine a fair number of those nasty lowsec pvpers are salivating at the thought of new rich targets to blast in to dust. ---
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Gus Morgan Originally by: Constance Harme Originally by: Gus Morgan so just because YOU dont get anything out of this expansion noone should, thats abit selfish isnt it? Be fair now he didn't say that, he said he's not pleased with it, not that he wants it gone (though I suspect thats whats to follow). well he basically said he wants it to be the property of alliance warfare which will pretty much mean it would become impossible to participate in for the little man. And it will be open to the "little man" by allowing pirate corps to exploit it? All I can say is that this expansion has nothing for a huge amount of pvp'ers despite being a pvp expansion. CCP better be explaining things FAST or else I suspect they will lose a lot here. [-FOAD] Corp CEO
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:34:00 - [40] Even in a 0.0 alliance, even without creating a second account, you can get in on the fun. Just roll a new alt, train him to use a webber/scram, and go find a frigate-sized combat complex. FW actually sounds a lot like "noob mercs" on an incredible scale... I'm sure it'll be half 0.0 alliance alts and half high-sec missionbear alts. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:35:00 - [41] Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:37:21 Originally by: Gus Morgan well he basically said he wants it to be the property of alliance warfare which will pretty much mean it would become impossible to participate in for the little man. Interesting point, there are probably lots of reasons the devs didnt include alliances (probably isnt absent-mindedness since corps are allowed in), there could for instance be lots of balancing issues. Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik someone quick say blob again... Okay just for you... blob. Originally by: Jakke Logan And it will be open to the "little man" by allowing pirate corps to exploit it? All I can say is that this expansion has nothing for a huge amount of pvp'ers despite being a pvp expansion. CCP better be explaining things FAST or else I suspect they will lose a lot here. Yes its a PVP based expansion but again as I understand it, its to help the non-pvpers to get into pvp.
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:40:00 - [42] Originally by: Constance Harme Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:37:21 Originally by: Gus Morgan well he basically said he wants it to be the property of alliance warfare which will pretty much mean it would become impossible to participate in for the little man. Interesting point, there are probably lots of reasons the devs didnt include alliances (probably isnt absent-mindedness since corps are allowed in), there could for instance be lots of balancing issues. Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik someone quick say blob again... Okay just for you... blob. Originally by: Jakke Logan And it will be open to the "little man" by allowing pirate corps to exploit it? All I can say is that this expansion has nothing for a huge amount of pvp'ers despite being a pvp expansion. CCP better be explaining things FAST or else I suspect they will lose a lot here. Yes its a PVP based expansion but again as I understand it, its to help the non-pvpers to get into pvp. And it's already been explained 1000x over how it already FAILS at this. It's not going to help anyone get into pvp by excluding pvp'ers. It's just going to give pirates a bonanza that lasts a few days. [-FOAD] Corp CEO
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Jakke Logan And it will be open to the "little man" by allowing pirate corps to exploit it? All I can say is that this expansion has nothing for a huge amount of pvp'ers despite being a pvp expansion. CCP better be explaining things FAST or else I suspect they will lose a lot here. that is the point, only 20% of eve players are in 0.0 If this expansion makes all of them leave then it will make another 30% join becuase they will have fun PvPing without going into 0.0 Also even more people will join because after playing FW and telling everyone how awesome it is, and then those players bored with FW will go into now empty 0.0 space and start taking it over! Also this all ties into the changed to 0.0 warfare which is going to be all timer based soon according to the GD forum for the past 2 months. But this is all based on the idea that people in 0.0 space give a **** about new FW stuff, they don't this expansion isn't for them.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Jakke Logan Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 01:32:02 As it currently is conceived, I don't see this expansion being relevant past the point the participants realize they are merely cannon fodder for griefers.. As opposed to being cannon-fodder for the Great Zero Alliances when they join those?? LOL
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Even in a 0.0 alliance, even without creating a second account, you can get in on the fun. Just roll a new alt, train him to use a webber/scram, and go find a frigate-sized combat complex. You know I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was part of ccp's plan for FW. Make it so it is low sp alt friendly, and then people will get a taste for pvp and start doing it with their mains. Also blob. ---
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 02:44:06 Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Jakke Logan And it will be open to the "little man" by allowing pirate corps to exploit it? All I can say is that this expansion has nothing for a huge amount of pvp'ers despite being a pvp expansion. CCP better be explaining things FAST or else I suspect they will lose a lot here. that is the point, only 20% of eve players are in 0.0 If this expansion makes all of them leave then it will make another 30% join becuase they will have fun PvPing without going into 0.0 Also even more people will join because after playing FW and telling everyone how awesome it is, and then those players bored with FW will go into now empty 0.0 space and start taking it over! Also this all ties into the changed to 0.0 warfare which is going to be all timer based soon according to the GD forum for the past 2 months. But this is all based on the idea that people in 0.0 space give a ** about new FW stuff, they don't this expansion isn't for them. Your hardcore makes up the majority of the revenue in any MMO. Screw yoour hardcore in favor of a new "target audience" = dead MMORPG. See Star Wars Galaxies. Develop your game for the players you have. Not the players you wish you had. [-FOAD] Corp CEO**
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:46:00 - [47] are you one of those pirates? because if you are get ready to eaten alive.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:46:00 - [48] Zerg blobbing of gates may indeed end up being worse problem than 0.0 powerhouses taking over the most profitable plexes. Still for my Gallente guy the biggest issue is severing path to Jita and my Caldari R+D agents, figting against more numerous foe, killing npc ships with crap drops. We carebears stay in highsec because it is profitable and this looks like nothing but opportunity costs to me. More tags you say? Like in L5 you say? The tags that sell for NPC price you say? The tags to buy T2 crap with Gallente Navy stamped on it? I care.
Dapper Danny Minmatar Biogen Explorations	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:47:00 - [49] Edited by: Dapper Danny on 16/05/2008 02:51:40 Edited by: Dapper Danny on 16/05/2008 02:51:23 Originally by: KarGard I agree, I don't see many mission runners willing to take the standing hit let alone lose ships and have to deal with pvp in highsec. However Devs beleive otherwise. Been thinking about that problem myself, given what we know that the gates into the actual places to fight over are restricted by ship types id see people not so worried about loosing ships to much (id say the frigate, cruiser restricted areas will get the most traffic since they are the cheapest ship types for most people and the least worried about if lost). Clones would be a problem. Given (this an assumption of my own) that the two sides are Cal vs Gal, Amarr vs Mini most people will join up for their home team i would assume and most of those races have pretty poor starting faction rep with the opposing side to begin with (this would all change if killing Amarr players in FW also lowered your caldari faction like it does currently running missions for Minmatar against Amarr), it shouldn't matter to much about loosing more standing towards just a single faction, which in most cases is your worst one to begin with (unless you've managed to get all of them into the positive in which case yes FW would be a big turn off). If you do loose some standing with your primary FW opponents allies id deffinately see alot of people not bothering like you said, heres hoping they,ve realised this and made it so you only loose standing with your direct FW Faction opponent. I sure as heck wouldnt join the FW if it meant I'd fubar my Caldari standing in anyway (couldnt careless for my Amarr its already -5) by fighting the Amarr Millitia, id be loosing far to much freedom for far little gain. Heres hoping. *- The Boot.ini Incident glances off your EvE Install causing no real damage! -*
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Jakke Logan And it's already been explained 1000x over how it already FAILS at this. It's not going to help anyone get into pvp by excluding pvp'ers. It's just going to give pirates a bonanza that lasts a few days. You can't say what it fails at UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY SEE IT FAIL, so kindly quitteth thou ***ing, please remove your head from your anus and wait and see. If when its released it turns out to be a pile of steaming doggy ** I'll let you gloat all you want and the devs will already be at work appeasing you.
Parsival Minmatar The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:52:00 - [51] Edited by: Parsival on 16/05/2008 02:52:33 Originally by: Constance Harme Yes its a PVP based expansion but again as I understand it, its to help the non-pvpers to get into pvp. I suspect its going to be an expansion which helps the non-pvpers pretend to get into PvP. Since when has opting out been part of the EVE ethos? Two years ago when I first heard people talking about factional warfare I was excited... now this is all so meh.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Constance Harme Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:37:21 Yes its a PVP based expansion but again as I understand it, its to help the non-pvpers to get into pvp. And on this point it utterly fails because CCP can't seem to wrap their heads around the real reason players in Empire don't go to zero and PvP.... COST and MOTIVATION... How does one pay for it and why would he if his only purpose is as cannon-fodder for someone elses master plan?? After two and a half years I can pay for a few ships, but I still can't see the motivation... and don't say "Fun?", because burning up MY resources to further somebody ELSES agenda isn't fun in my book.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Dapper Danny Originally by: KarGard I agree, I don't see many mission runners willing to take the standing hit let alone lose ships and have to deal with pvp in highsec. However Devs beleive otherwise. Been thinking about that problem myself, given what we know that the gates into the actual places to fight over are restricted by ship types id see people not so worried about loosing ships to much. It's not the frigates they'd worry about losing. It's their Navy Ravens that they mission with in Motsu that they'd lose sleep over. Being in a militia is going to be like being at war, not a thing you turn off and turn on twice per day. I, for one, look forward to taking a covert ops or recon into enemy space and probing them down in their missions. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:54:00 - [54] An enormous amount comes down to implementation. Right now, it's impossible for the casual player to find a dozen friends to gang up with. Ganging with strangers is too deadly. If the FW militia system does nothing more than improve the odds that your pickup gang consists of people who are actually on your side, it will be full of win. Of course, we don't know if it will do that, yet. But it's far too soon to conclude that it won't. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:57:00 - [55] Edited by: Constance Harme on 16/05/2008 02:59:40 Originally by: Ira Theos And on this point it utterly fails because CCP can't seem to wrap their heads around the real reason players in Empire don't go to zero and PvP.... COST and MOTIVATION... How does one pay for it and why would he if his only purpose is as cannon-fodder for someone elses master plan?? After two and a half years I can pay for a few ships, but I still can't see the motivation... and don't say "Fun?", because burning up MY resources to further somebody ELSES agenda isn't fun in my book. I never said it's going to be fun... or cheap, but thats what its supposedly for and I have no idea what the devs have in mind, but what I'm getting at is that the expansion is not their to cater for alliances, I cant say whats going to happen in the future as its not even released yet but thats how I've interpreted the information. Originally by: Marlenus An enormous amount comes down to implementation. Right now, it's impossible for the casual player to find a dozen friends to gang up with. Ganging with strangers is too deadly. If the FW militia system does nothing more than improve the odds that your pickup gang consists of people who are actually on your side, it will be full of win. Of course, we don't know if it will do that, yet. But it's far too soon to conclude that it won't. I dont think you actually need to gang with them, and since they're already in your faction they might not be able to shoot you.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:58:00 - [56] Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 16/05/2008 02:59:26 Originally by: Ira Theos And on this point it utterly fails because CCP can't seem to wrap their heads around the real reason players in Empire don't go to zero and PvP.... COST and MOTIVATION... Bolded the part you don't seem able to wrap your brain around. Going to 0.0 != PVP. 0.0 is held by a few dozen major alliances... because most are hierarchies, that means a few dozen dudes indirectly control all the opportunities for good PVP in 0.0. FW allows us to join NPC corps and NPC alliances that have permanent empire war. It allows people who want to PVP to try it in several fun ways (complexes, missions, roaming etc) without having to do all the other stuff that you have to do in 0.0, namely, paying tax, doing a weekly mining op, following somebody else's orders. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:02:00 - [57] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker What Joe just said. Thats what I'm getting at.
Dapper Danny Minmatar Biogen Explorations	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:06:00 - [58] Edited by: Dapper Danny on 16/05/2008 03:08:21 Edited by: Dapper Danny on 16/05/2008 03:07:54 Originally by: Joe Starbreaker It's not the frigates they'd worry about losing. It's their Navy Ravens that they mission with in Motsu that they'd lose sleep over. Being in a militia is going to be like being at war, not a thing you turn off and turn on twice per day. I, for one, look forward to taking a covert ops or recon into enemy space and probing them down in their missions. I see your point hmmm... hadnt fully thought of that, would be good if joining the millitia was on a clone by clone basis, Jump clone 1 is in jump clone 2 isnt... although then it would be almost risk free realy, then again might be something they need to do to keep FW from basicly being avoided by the same people its supposedly aimed at, if the rewards for FW though where as good as mission running I could see myself still doing it, although id see myself going back to Minni space first since im sure it would be alot safer mission running in a region where most of the people im flying around are on the same side as me :p . Doubt many Amarr militia members would be able to get far enough into Mini space to be a threat while missioning apart from Covert Ops, like you id deffinately like to try, being a covert op pilot myself :p *- The Boot.ini Incident glances off your EvE Install causing no real damage! -*
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:09:00 - [59] Originally by: Marlenus An enormous amount comes down to implementation. Right now, it's impossible for the casual player to find a dozen friends to gang up with. Ganging with strangers is too deadly. If the FW militia system does nothing more than improve the odds that your pickup gang consists of people who are actually on your side, it will be full of win. Of course, we don't know if it will do that, yet. But it's far too soon to conclude that it won't. Exactly. WHY would anyone gang with strangers when the mechanics still allow this to be used for griefing with impunity? Stupid to even think of implimenting this expansion without fixing that. [-FOAD] Corp CEO
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:10:00 - [60] Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/05/2008 03:09:43 Originally by: Jakke Logan Originally by: Marlenus An enormous amount comes down to implementation. Right now, it's impossible for the casual player to find a dozen friends to gang up with. Ganging with strangers is too deadly. If the FW militia system does nothing more than improve the odds that your pickup gang consists of people who are actually on your side, it will be full of win. Of course, we don't know if it will do that, yet. But it's far too soon to conclude that it won't. Exactly. WHY would anyone gang with strangers when the mechanics still allow this to be used for griefing with impunity? Stupid to even think of implimenting this expansion without fixing that. live dev blog said you will get protection in FW gangs. didn't it?

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