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Why removing local would be bad.

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Gods Coldblood THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:08:00 - [61] Edited by: Gods Coldblood on 19/05/2008 12:12:39 Your both idiots and are completely off. No local would remove chat, and help with lag a bit - but that's really the only useful thing about it really. The bad stuff is that you can't see who all is in the same system, so that makes it less a convince for BOTH the prey and the hunter. The hunter's going to have a harder time even realizing who's in local, and make a lot more effort with the scanner. While the prey is more at risk of being jumped without even seeing it coming. You have no way of telling if any allied groups are nearby, so it creates a pretty bad communications problem. You also have no idea who you are scanning down is friend or foe, talk about a waste of time looking for a red to kill. This would also make the abilitiy for 0.0 alliances to even defend their own territory impossible, it's already hard enough for a alliance to even remotly secure most of their territory. Intel networks would be rendered useless. No capital pilot can navigate through 0.0 or low sec and have a stable frame of mind. This would kill off a lot of capitals - most people would not be willing to risk that much ISK because local was removed and it was too dangerous. The demand would crash and no producers would want to get into the capital market ever again. This probably would make a lot of people not want to even PvP in general anymore - which would completely devastate the markets. There would really be no safe place, even in dock - only cloaking. Everytime you undock, you have no idea if your being camped or not. This list could go on for another 5 threads if I wanted to spend that kinda time. If the vast majority of the forums thinks that local can be removed without any consequences, well - must be the vocal majority, because we are having a mass collection of idiots. The only way it could work is if local was removed and something else was put in it's place - like a better system scanner - however it would be incredibly annoying having to spam your scanner button 24-7, it's more work than play if thats the case. Pay attention to this quote people!!! I'm not joking either, i could name millions reasons why this would ruin thoses fun fights we all come to love, wether its small or large scale, we might as well just stay docked, wait for the enemy to turn up and station camp us in ____________________________ My video Way of the Warrior : Anxiety
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Prideful I think removing local would be a bad idea, but maybe introduce a skill/module that would allow a player to be hidden from local chat for a specified amount of time? It could be set with a timer making sure that the person using it has to wait, say, 30 seconds before they can activate it, so anyone who's activley watching local would have a clue that someone has entered the system. Then the person could activate module and initiate their hunt. There are problems with this idea, but its better then removing local alltogether IMO. How about shiptype dictates the delay on updating local? Such that perhaps non-combat gets a 1minute delay and combat ships are updated automatically. Then for the stealthy ships. There is some sort of rig or module or something which makes you delayed on local. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Prideful Caldari Pheonix Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:15:00 - [63] Ya, it would make covert ops ship more, well... covert. ------------------------ "Lead me, Follow me, Or get out of my way." -George Patton
Billy Merc Amarr Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Krystal Demishy Edited by: Krystal Demishy on 18/05/2008 20:32:48 No local = More people scared of 0.0 and low sec = Bigger gangs = More gate camps = More blobs = Bad We want more little gangs, people splitted in various places, not people scared of what they could find on the next gate and stuck camping/blobbing/lagging systems and battles. Use the map fool...thats what it's there for
Swp Caldari Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:32:00 - [65] Edited by: Swp on 19/05/2008 12:32:46 no local =beter for carebears = no fun !!! ___ CVA THE AMARR EMPIRE (movie)
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:37:00 - [66] Removing local has nothing to do with making stealth ships stealth or lag from local. It's an easy fix to Ambulation social concept. They don't want to auto default all players to the planetary chat. Players will in time network to secure systems and you get more and more Jita factor where players cluster for security, local becomes fleet and or alliance channel and all activity revolves around those. Only systems with Ice belts will have POS's Only systems with bases will have mining That 300 entry standings thing will get filled up half as fast as it does now. Do what they want. Some will adapt, some will just leave. I just think it's a short term answer to a long term problem.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Amastat Your both idiots and are completely off. No local would remove chat, and help with lag a bit - but that's really the only useful thing about it really. The bad stuff is that you can't see who all is in the same system, so that makes it less a convince for BOTH the prey and the hunter. The hunter's going to have a harder time even realizing who's in local, and make a lot more effort with the scanner. While the prey is more at risk of being jumped without even seeing it coming. You have no way of telling if any allied groups are nearby, so it creates a pretty bad communications problem. You also have no idea who you are scanning down is friend or foe, talk about a waste of time looking for a red to kill. This would also make the abilitiy for 0.0 alliances to even defend their own territory impossible, it's already hard enough for a alliance to even remotly secure most of their territory. Intel networks would be rendered useless. No capital pilot can navigate through 0.0 or low sec and have a stable frame of mind. This would kill off a lot of capitals - most people would not be willing to risk that much ISK because local was removed and it was too dangerous. The demand would crash and no producers would want to get into the capital market ever again. This probably would make a lot of people not want to even PvP in general anymore - which would completely devastate the markets. There would really be no safe place, even in dock - only cloaking. Everytime you undock, you have no idea if your being camped or not. This list could go on for another 5 threads if I wanted to spend that kinda time. If the vast majority of the forums thinks that local can be removed without any consequences, well - must be the vocal majority, because we are having a mass collection of idiots. The only way it could work is if local was removed and something else was put in it's place - like a better system scanner - however it would be incredibly annoying having to spam your scanner button 24-7, it's more work than play if thats the case. You just convinced me: local must be removed.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:24:00 - [68] While I like the idea of removing local chat as a information tool (people appearing whenever they enter system), it'd leave us with no functioning information tools at all. Currently you've got the on-board scanner which, in addition to local (and knowledge of the system as well, so you can determine possed/AFK ships) provides you information about what's in system and your immediate surroundings. Even then, correct intel requires a bit of knowledge and guesswork since you have no precise way of determining who is flying what. Particularly when people are flying covert ops cloaking device ships. Just removing local would leave everyone in the dark, which is not such a awesome idea. A pirate killing for profit relies on target selection and avoiding blobs. Wars rely on being able to fairly quickly determine wether there are any targets in system - without local, you would literally never find your targets in high-sec without extensive station camping. It makes it impossible to spot the so popular bait/gank traps and such, and target selection is much harder to do. The issue is that the directional scanner sucks. It tells you ship type and name (and can be used to figure out direction/distance) - but with a ton of ships around and a lot of possed/etc ships plus ships with cloaks, it's extremely hard to get a clear image of what's going on in system. Plus, the most annoying thing ever, you have to spam the scan button. To prevent people from being totally blind to their surroundings, a scanner 'fix' would be necessary, preety much like this: (1) Implementing a "pilot" tab in the scanner, so you know who's in what ship and who is red / who isn't. Without this, wars are next to impossible, particularly in high-sec. (2) Auto-updating the scanner, so people don't have to spam the scan button - if you open the scanner, it 'pings' every 1-2 (or up to 5, doesn't have to be instantenous) seconds and refreshes the results. Obviously, cloaked ships wouldn't appear on scanner directly, but some way of detecting that there are cloaked ships nearby would be nice, otherwise we're going to see a massive poliferation of recon blobs (which are already frequent for bait/gank traps, and all the cool people have a falcon alt). Perhaps seeing 'unidentified signature' on scanner without pilot/etc information for covops cloaks at a 5AU range so you have some warning of cloaked ships without precise information, and said ships can scout from a bit farther away undetected, and at full range for non-covops cloak ships (except stealth bombers). Before you say anything about covops cloaks - this would still be a huge boost for cloaking ships as the player names would not be visible on scanner anymore. As someone with about 20-ish falcon alts/pilots set to red and therefore immediately aware of their presence in local, it will only make it harder for me to spot them, not easier. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton my main problem is that local is too powerful, but the onboard scanner isnt quite powerful enough. This, basically. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
GB Man	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:54:00 - [70] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton my main problem is that local is too powerful, but the onboard scanner isnt quite powerful enough. This, basically. Hit the nail on the head right there. A revamp of the scanner is most defiantly needed. First, because most people here seems to have the same misguided conceptions on how the issue will be approached, Local Chat will never be disabled. The problem is that there is simply too much information given to the individual players. The mere fact that there are countless threads of people crying about people who cloak and afk in systems because it "Throws off their game" is proof enough of that. Ironicly, the fact that there is an overabundance of unnessesary info in local chat is because of programs similar to bacon back in the day. They had an uncanny advantage over everyone else in the game because they were able to see the standinds and security ratings of people who entered the system. Only the people with the program had access to the data and the devs were forced to give this to everone else. Now we have Bacon, which takes it a step even further. The issue with local chat giving too much information has been a longstanding one, but mulled down by the fact that players have come to think of it as common place. It's time to get your heads out of your asses and move on.
Alhambra Rainwalker Caldari Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:55:00 - [71] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton my main problem is that local is too powerful, but the onboard scanner isnt quite powerful enough. This is true. About people flying more recons if local was removed, many gankers/roamers are fitting cloaks in everything they fly these days so it wouldn¦t change much in that sense. But you have to make some other changes to the game if you want to go this way. I¦m not a big fan of local at all myself, it¦s way too convenient and easy way to avoid danger if you ask me. Most often real military commanders don¦t exactly know what they are up against, they gather best intel they can and go for it.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 19/05/2008 13:58:37 Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 19/05/2008 13:58:21 Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 19/05/2008 13:57:15 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton my main problem is that local is too powerful, but the onboard scanner isnt quite powerful enough. This is true. About people flying more recons if local was removed, many gankers/roamers are fitting cloaks in everything they fly these days so it wouldn¦t change much in that sense. They find more value in improved risk-avoidance than offense or other utility mod in that spare high and it¦s probably true. Striking enemy when it¦s weak or unable to defend itself effectively is usually best way to go. But you have to make some other changes to the game if you want to go this way. Dynamic belts and other content, envinroments (in some places cloaks won¦t work etc) and so forth. I¦m not a big fan of local at all myself, it¦s way too convenient and easy way to avoid danger if you ask me. Most often real military commanders don¦t exactly know what they are up against, they gather best intel they can and go for it. How much is risk avoidance and how much is trying to eek out more of an advantage? A curse fit with a cloak is better than a pilgrim... My poor pilgrim
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:46:00 - [73] Imagen how many god damn gate + bubbles + smart bombing BS you'd end up with. Just Imagen it, frigate PVP would die in about a week. ---
GB Man	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:48:00 - [74] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Imagen how many god damn gate + bubbles + smart bombing BS you'd end up with. Just Imagen it, frigate PVP would die in about a week. What exactly does that have to do with local chat? sorry. you've failed.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.19 15:39:00 - [75] Originally by: Gods Coldblood Edited by: Gods Coldblood on 19/05/2008 12:12:39 You have no way of telling if any allied groups are nearby, so it creates a pretty bad communications problem. You also have no idea who you are scanning down is friend or foe, talk about a waste of time looking for a red to kill. Intel networks would be rendered useless. Ummm...what kind of allies do u have? do u speak to them only in local? everheard of creating channels of your own? or intel channels where people report sightings, neutrals and hostiles? 0.0 alliances mostly secure their territory by camping the entry gate(s) to their space. Intel networks would be rendered useless?-GEEZ!!! It's quite the opposite, everyone would be keeping their eyes on their surroundings and the intel channels(yes, those exist...). And it would just simply crystallize the real pvp-ers, and cancel the cowardly nanof*ggs that engage only when they are 100% sure of victory. Space is huge, unknown, dark...u need that kind of feeling if u're playing a SPACESHIP game too... Try the game called X3 : Reunion, it gives u perspective of space fighting, tho it is not MMORPG...That's also a point for CCP, they could check that game and maybe look for interesting ideas from that one, or similar space games...
Conrad Rock Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.19 15:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Christari Zuborov DOOM! PANIC! ARMAGEDDON! Careful there Chicken Little, don't let the sky don't hit you in the head. Nice argument, moron.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:31:00 - [77] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 19/05/2008 18:35:16 Originally by: Conrad Rock Originally by: Christari Zuborov DOOM! PANIC! ARMAGEDDON! Careful there Chicken Little, don't let the sky don't hit you in the head. Nice argument, moron. Oh yes, another witty response! You see, he's the deal. Anyone that posts that it's the "end of", or "beginning of", or how it will be, actually doesn't have a clue and should be called out when they do this. The truth is, you or no one else posting in this forum, have no idea what the new interface would be like and how that interface would effect the mechanics. What we do know is how the current interface has an effect on mechanics, and most of us realize it's fundamentally flawed, that it needs to be updated, that in some way it needs to be changed, in its current state it's unacceptable. Now I put forth some sort of suggestion like so: I'd like for a redesign to be done on the scanner interface to introduce mechanics that require PLAYER based skill, not character based skill, to determine where another player is in relation to yourself. It should be different that what it is now. It should have some sort of RP feel to it and be based on sound science principles. I'd like for the scanner to not automatically inform pirates that I'm local and probably ratting. That's what I'd like, but the end product may not be within 5% of the specifications I ask for. It's also far more productive than simply stating, "Let's keep things the way they are", or "this is what I want to happen when I do this". Things change, and they will always continue to change, accept that. Once you've realized that it will change, then your start to be productive by suggesting alternatives that suit your desires. *Quit being Chicken Little.* Ok Conrad, So let's hear it. What are your arguments? I've saving some space right here for it. Tell me. Quote:
Bourgeoisvio	Posted - 2008.05.20 14:22:00 - [78] Originally by: Conrad Rock No local would stop all solo/small number none-cloaking gangs. This is just blatantly untrue. Local allows large blob alliances to instantly tell if a couple neutral/hostile roamers enter system in addition to being able to track them as they move systems.
NeoNeTiC Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.05.20 15:39:00 - [79] Didn't read replies below OP because OP was rediculous. Carebears don't get scared from seeing someone in low-sec or 0.0 local. They get scared when they see the red flashing ships on overview and the message "You can not warp because you're warpscrambled.". Or the bubble. Or someone approach them. Or warp in. They're a bit like children. They do what they want unless they get scared. That's when they sleep with lights on for the rest of their life until they grow up and get laid. Sadly most of EVE players never seem to get laid. (This was an example to illustrate my view, don't tell me about your sex-life now) Experienced PvPers don't mind numbers in local. They either find a way out alive or simply log in a safespot and wait until the 200 man blob left system. If you remove local things will stay the same. People enter lowsec, see flashing pirates at a gate, wet their pants and cry while trying to get out or actually fight them. Same goes for 0.0, except that NPCers lose a bit of safety since they have to hit the "scan" button all the time and hope there's no cloaking ship around. The real downside would be belt-piracy since lowsec is so full with crap nowdays that you have to spend ages in each system scanning around for a target - just to find it at a POS. ._. Enjoy sleeping with your lights on, NeoNeTiC [MORTS]-Slayer of the Innocent
u die Minmatar Sugarcane Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.20 17:18:00 - [80] Surviving in 0.0/lowsec after local removal would require teamplay. Since most of the people 'could not get' a scout, costumers would cry a river. river crying = obviously bad Thats it. But to ease your worries, there is local there on Sisi, i just checked a couple hours ago. sarkasm here ________________________________________________
Ron Bacardi Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.20 17:36:00 - [81] Edited by: Ron Bacardi on 20/05/2008 17:41:23 Edited by: Ron Bacardi on 20/05/2008 17:38:52 Local chat should not be an intel tool. Right now, that is all it is. The reason it hasnt been removed already is because the scanner is pretty sub-par. Don't be too surprised if CCP makes sweeping changes to scanning and implements something more active(think radar) and at the same time removes local. In the meantime, ditch local for constellation chat, let's make gethering intel at least a little harder. God forbid gathering intel was a little harder than an FC saying "count the reds in local guys". EDIT: Regarding being station camped and having no idea, you'd think that stations would have sophisticated sensors and while in station you could access sensor data to see everyone in the space around it. Make it a new station service.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.05.21 12:06:00 - [82] Edited by: Nicholas Barker on 21/05/2008 12:06:15 Originally by: GB Man Originally by: Nicholas Barker Imagen how many god damn gate + bubbles + smart bombing BS you'd end up with. Just Imagen it, frigate PVP would die in about a week. What exactly does that have to do with local chat? sorry. you've failed. because once people can't see somebody in local, they don't know to scan the gates or not, you've either got to scan every single gate while you travel, or just get killed after a few jumps because of this, or fly a bigger ship that can take the smart bomb hits before you can mwd out of range. sorry you've failed you'll need noob scouts for your scout frigates then. ---
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.21 13:33:00 - [83] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Edited by: Nicholas Barker on 21/05/2008 12:06:15 Originally by: GB Man Originally by: Nicholas Barker Imagen how many god damn gate + bubbles + smart bombing BS you'd end up with. Just Imagen it, frigate PVP would die in about a week. What exactly does that have to do with local chat? sorry. you've failed. because once people can't see somebody in local, they don't know to scan the gates or not, you've either got to scan every single gate while you travel, or just get killed after a few jumps because of this, or fly a bigger ship that can take the smart bomb hits before you can mwd out of range. sorry you've failed you'll need noob scouts for your scout frigates then. Maybe you shouldn't be willy-nilly'in all over tarnation?! Ya ever think of that?
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.21 13:33:00 - [84] Local is going in it's current form whether you like it or not. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Grarr Dexx Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.05.21 13:45:00 - [85] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Local is going in it's current form whether you like it or not. Hoho, let's leave the big words to the actual developers, boy-o!

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