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New pirate tactic for gatecamping?

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Boz Well	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Cloora Edited by: Cloora on 19/05/2008 19:46:00 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! You are mad that someone is proposing that we remove your low risk ISK making machine. I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you. That story is pretty hilarious.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Sionide Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. Holy comprehension Batman! I already told you. I don't HAVE to deal with it. Jump Freighter IV FTW. Just ideas being thrown out you negative nellys. So your problem is solved...what's the issue again? Whine some more? === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Kurundo Garon	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:39:00 - [33] just a random question but where are these camps? i fly trough low sec quite a lot but i never seen ones like this.
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:49:00 - [34] There's a million names for the spots, and it's nothing new. All you need is a directional scanner and a look at local to tell if there's a camp going. It's simply a counter to the norm of scouts now, it's not foolproof but it is an example of a pirate using the game mechanics to his advantage, which is simply smarter, and by no means an exploit. It doesn't need to be nerfed, and there's plenty of ways to counter this. Gate guns do not need to be buffed and HIC's are fine. The current age is that anti-pirates can use nano's in low-sec where outlaw's can't very effectively, and all it takes is one vaga to take out a small camp should it sit on the gate. ITT: I suggest gate guns be affected by transversal so nano-ships dont instapop Recruitment: [ANTI]
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:54:00 - [35] Would also make frigates useful outside of belts and deadspaces in lowsec if gate guns were affected by transversal - I like frigates... been wishing for something like that for the whole time 8 months I been playing (almost a year I'm so excited!!!!1 Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:55:00 - [36] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 19/05/2008 20:54:52 Originally by: Cloora Edited by: Cloora on 19/05/2008 19:46:00 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! You are mad that someone is proposing that we remove your low risk ISK making machine. I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you. LOL ISK making machine you say huh? Good thing I don't make my ISK by pirating, its called an alt you very bright person. You wanted to buy back the minerals at some discount, do you think we are going to give someone who we just killed his minerals back at a discount? **** that. Deal with low-sec it's your problem that you aren't scouting, deal with it and stop being a crybaby. Blah blah, eve is a worse place because of people like me. In fact EVE is a better place because I make noobs like you realize how ignorant you are when stating something that could have been AVOIDED BY SCOUTING. Hello, my name is common sense. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 21:04:00 - [37] Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 21:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. for the first part of your post- Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. for the second part- I actually kinda like that idea and it would be a large change to the way the game works but might be worth it to explore further. Posts like yours are a refreshing breath of fresh air compared to people like the FINAL STAND that do nothing for the game except bring the game's community down a notch.
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.05.19 22:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Faife Cloora: you're right, but you're not going to hear it in this forum, don't bother. You're basically asking them for ideas to make their game harder. No one wants that. No, Cloora, you're not right. You are nowhere near the country in which the word 'right' resides in. Allow me to illuminate: I am not a pirate. I am one of the few carebears that enjoys being on the edge of my seat to see if I can pull off the vast amount of profit that low sec brings. The problem arises when an idiot asshat, such as yourself, comes into the forums (C&P, no less) to give 'ideas' on how to make the game 'better' when the only thing you are looking for is exactly what you accuse the pirates of.. making it easier for you to make easy money. I am TIRED of all of the noobs asking to nerf this and 'I need an autopilot that wtz' that. You want no risk is all. Go play Hello Kitty Online if that's what you want and leave my beautiful game of teeth-grinding, bone-crunching, jaw-clenching BOOM BOOM alone. It's just fine as it is. I like Eve because of its harsh environment and would quit if it were anything less. BTW, pirates' money isn't easy... sitting at a gate is. Now if you want to make it harder for you could make their pods play Rick Astley... that would be harsh. ^^
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:15:00 - [40] Ninja camping is old as lowsec. Buffing gate guns will do nothing to curb this. Quite the opposite , people permacamp gates because it's viable (with split aggro in BC/BS) and worth the benefit of catching more people when there is enough traffic (Rancer) Gate camping is old as the game. Most of the pvp happens at gates. Scouting a ninja camp is trivial , check local to see who has a crim - lots of people in an usually empty system ? Must be a camp. Scanner usage isn't just 360 at max range , it's up to you to sort ships on scan and figure which ones are together according to their location and distance to the gate. If you see several battleships nearby and lots of people with crim , they aren't minding their own business salvaging a complex. Duh.
xenodia Gallente Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:36:00 - [41] This tactic has been around for years, WAY predating the introduction of HIC's. The only change is that with the HICs, your stabbed out t2 hauler can get caught now, instead of being basically immune to scrambling by anything smaller than a 5 ship gang. But in all fairness... HIC's dont lock all that fast, so a properly fitted blockade runner and most ships smaller than cruiser sized can align and warp off fast enough to avoid getting scrammed. Put a couple of Istabs on your blockade runner and youre good to go. This signature space for rent
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:37:00 - [42] Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 19/05/2008 23:38:39 Originally by: Cloora Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. Pirates may camp solo now, but if you boost gate guns they won't... all that would do is force us pirates to either camp with greater numbers, logistics, tactics. In the end we would be more lethal and less would escape. Though less gates would get camped at any given time. Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. Vladimir's second idea sounds interesting, but it would pretty much make all combat on gates in low-sec consentual (unless you are an idiot and WTZ to a gate unscouted). Another side effect would be that us pirates would be FAR safer sitting in jump range of a gate inside a 15km bubble with the ability to jump through and decloak at a random point 100km from the gate. I don't want to make it any harder for people to come try (and sometimes succeed!) to kill me as what we really live for is a good gang fight.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Cloora Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. Sure, some pirates will solo-camp. But it's a losing proposition in the long run. For every solo glory-kill of a hauler filled with BPOs that gets posted on C&P, there are another 1000 that never get posted where some poor chump pirate in a HAC or pimped out BS got warp scrammed by a ceptor, or had a gang drop on them, or got pummeled by what they though was a soft target. Just not a cost effective way of gate-camping as the risk FAR outweighs the probable rewards. Just because it can or has been done, doesn't make it a common occurence (or even a wise one). Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.05.20 00:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Cloora I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. Bring a few battleships and a falcon or two. Unless it's a huge camp the pirates won't engage. Hey presto! access to low sec. -
Lex Alandar	Posted - 2008.05.20 00:54:00 - [45] I'd just like to say that I don't see the point of this post. The problem you seem to have is with getting battleships/battlecruisers etc. into lowsec. First thing you should contemplate doing, maybe....MAKE them in lowsec? That aside, your proposed changes would not affect this tactic at all. Making gateguns stronger, or adding more (and let me tell you, some gates suffer from a bug of 2x extra sentry guns which are invisible) would just make this tactic MORE necessary. The whole point of this tactic is to remain safe, not taking damage from guns, while being able to warp quickly to the gate. While you are removing scan res from the HICs, why not take bubbles away from their little brothers? Or for that matter, just lower all tracking from ships that fit guns. Oh hey, you could also make it so that caldari ships can't fit launchers. It's a ship made to lock down targets. If a gang is willing to put a 150mil (not counting mods/rigs) CRUISER on a gate just to lock you down (need I add they are also the first to take aggro) then I think they deserve enough scan res to actually do their job. HICs are fragile, despite their techII tank. Any decent damage dealing battleship can primary one and take it down before getting ripped apart by his friends. Thus leaving the way open for other ships to get through. As mentioned several times, use a scout! I think it's completely ridiculous that you claim the directional scanner is an 'advanced tactic' Directional scanning should be taught in the tutorial, I think. Anyone going to lowsec needs to use directional scan. Whether you are hunting for targets, or trying to stay safe, it's just plain indispensable, and ignoring it is not an excuse. There are several tactics that can help you get around this kind of gatecamp, and I won't get into them, since they are mostly psychological, and should be easy enough to figure out. Needless to say, if your enemy spends the majority of their time at a safespot off gate, there are several periods of time where they will not be aligned and able to get to the gate quickly enough. I can't imagine why you would think HICs were made to stop supercap gatecamping....anyone with a fleet large enough to take on a supercap on a gate would surely use tactics (proven ones btw) that would make the HIC completely unnecessary. Once again, it is a ship made to stop all ships in their tracks. You should have gotten over that by now, like the rest of the carebears, and moved on to tactics to get around it, rather than whining (and YES, it IS a whine post!).
Belial Tempter Amarr Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:49:00 - [46] lol. Aint nubs cute.
Avaricia The Accursed	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Cloora I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. not going through gatecamps is probably the easiest way to get into lowsec without going through a gatecamp. hint: it isn't that hard reign of terror griefmatic
Algia Knightstorm	Posted - 2008.05.20 09:54:00 - [48] How can you guys NOT see that he is actually trying to help you. The lo-Sec guys are ALWAYS on the forums moaning that not enough people come into lo-sec bla bla bla, make lo-sec more attractive bla bla bla. He has just given you an option to make it more attractive and you're all telling him he's an idiot. Personally I think he has it right. Let em in, let them run the gauntlet and see what happens. Jesus christ, it takes seconds to scan someone down once they are in system, have pirates really got that lazy that they can't be bothered to do that anymore?
Fivel Ve Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:04:00 - [49] Whenever heavy interdictors were introduced to the game some people saw the main problem with them - that they will scare off the non-pirate population even more so than it was scared to visit low sec before hics. The pirates said "learn to cloak, mwd, and align noob!". Unfortunately it didn't work this way and carebears grew even more alienated from low sec. Post ship setups here.
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:41:00 - [50] Edited by: joshmorris on 20/05/2008 11:42:43 Well here are my views, yes im a piwate. 1. Using a SS very near a gate is a old tactic not new. 2. Buffing the gate guns to what ? When i engage a person on a gate or station i have a extra 200 + dps on me. Buffing the gate guns would lead to me not engaging anymore and just brining a gank squad with lots of remote reps. If you want to buff the guns so that its so powerfull you cant remote rep to keep the damage off low sec would be a no risk zone on the gates ... 3. Gate camping = no risk you say. Its low risk when you have a few people with scout alts scattered around key systems. But when you get a bait bs come in and drop 2 motherships and a few carriers on your camp once in a while i think thats pretty risky. For people who say low sec is broken stfu, its not. You can get a corp together , move to a part of low sec and live quite happily. Just because a lone care bear (not saying the op is) cant move into low sec and make 0.0(sec) worth of isk in 5 mins doesn't mean low sec is broken. Edit - If the pirate gate camp is 10 people and has 4 scouts and you cant get past it solo what about getting 10 people yourself , scouting 4 different routes and get in that way ... Uber idea solves all !!
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:03:00 - [51] Quote: A new tactic has seem to come into widespread (notice I used that word. It could have been first used much earlier) use in the past 6 months or so. I am seeing it more and more now. I call them "Pounce points." I think I heard them called that by a pirate in low-sec once and that is now what I call it. This tactic is almost as old as EVE itself. Saw it in use in 2005 already and im fairly sure it was used earlier.
Dude Why	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:44:00 - [52] Even if you nerf the HIC, pirates will just use a lachesis. You don't seem to have that much of a clue about piracy. It's hard to 'Work for it' You can probe mission runners down, fair enough, but after you've got about 2 mission runners, they'll get wise to your scanner. As soon as you put him into local, they all dock up. You might get the odd one or two who are a bit thick, but generally, it's pointless. Same for belt work. No one rats in low sec anyway. Maybe in a cruiser hunting for faction rats. that's about it. And having been in lowsec for a year, i've seen one person mining. One.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:51:00 - [53] SS camping is silly. I've lost count of the number of psuedo-pirates ganked out of thier safe-spots. Thats easy pickings right there. Seriously. Solo HIC's wind up killing a few haulers or whatever thier paltry DPS can manage and wind up dying horribly to others. Waste of ISK unless in a gang. And easily avoided. And OP...use your F10 map. Number pods/ships killed in last hour will give you a big clue as to what may be awaiting. And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Chaos Breeze C.R.I.M.E	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:01:00 - [54] Edited by: Chaos Breeze on 20/05/2008 13:09:12 ok im one off the big bad boys in this tread and i fly a hics and we use that very tactic and there is no way devoter ( one of the best gate tackle in the game ) have that much off a chance of catching a shuttle on its own only if its pimped out the wazzu or the shuttle is very slow.what does come into play is when ppl land they start remote sensor boosting which gives you a nasty scan res catching almost anything the reason for this ridiculous scan res is to try and catch mwd cloakers if they to slow to cloak or whatever. what you really want is a stacking nerf on remote sensor boosting ( not likely being done ) not increase sentry gun damage as where suggested earlier in the year, we pirates would like to fly something less than a hac or recon just for the fact you get mor fight its also been suggested that you get tracking on sentrys so you could fly lesser ships for the nano****gotry. OH yeah and most pirates actually make their money off piracy and not running missions day in day out this is our only way off making ends meet. this is just us evolving our tactics to counter scout and/or mwd/cloaker cause they are the ones giving us a true payday. if you wanna move goodies trough pirate space you have to fight or pay for that right thats how it is....
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:12:00 - [55] the tools to tell you wether these guys is sitting 14 au away or 1000km away are allready ingame and has been since i started in 2004 not eve's fault ppl have no patience to learn to scan properly and only do max range pinpointing i would however know where ppl are with in a few seconds the tools are there just need to use em now i dont know why u are having such a hard time when in sniggwaffe(s******dly training corp) we have plenty of brand new to the game ppl who fly their haulers to lowsec with a full load of cargo exspanders and throw cruisers/bc's inside and they never seem to lose anything i also do this myself and have never had this problem in my awesome mamooth of slowness pirating is still fun and challenging i would regard gate camping as more like the pirate way of ratting tbh its dull boring but can be decent cash but sometimes we need to have a little fun a tbh killing a hauler has never provided much fun nerfing hic scan res would create a problem in it being able to perform properly it is meant to counter wcs seriously picture this you are doing a war in highsec now what good is a hic that takes 20s locking hacs/cruisers and now instead of tackling you with a hic they could just bump you with an alt in a vaga and as for buffing gate guns again all this will do is make sure we never agress ppl who are not blinky on gates in proper pvp as it is atm that allready provides harsh odds at times and since all this can be avoided by scouting properly nothing would justify this besides instead of using 10 ppl to camp you implement this next time there will be 20 so what did that fix ...
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Chomin H'ak No, Cloora, you're not right. You are nowhere near the country in which the word 'right' resides in. Allow me to illuminate: I am not a pirate. I am one of the few carebears that enjoys being on the edge of my seat to see if I can pull off the vast amount of profit that low sec brings. The problem arises when an idiot asshat, such as yourself, comes into the forums (C&P, no less) to give 'ideas' on how to make the game 'better' when the only thing you are looking for is exactly what you accuse the pirates of.. making it easier for you to make easy money. I am TIRED of all of the noobs asking to nerf this and 'I need an autopilot that wtz' that. You want no risk is all. Go play Hello Kitty Online if that's what you want and leave my beautiful game of teeth-grinding, bone-crunching, jaw-clenching BOOM BOOM alone. It's just fine as it is. I like Eve because of its harsh environment and would quit if it were anything less. BTW, pirates' money isn't easy... sitting at a gate is. Now if you want to make it harder for you could make their pods play Rick Astley... that would be harsh. ^^ Another person that fails on reading comprehension. I already make my ISK. This is not an issue for me. I am concerned about others. Unlike some people in this game I actually care about making it better and wanted to discuss ideas. Negative people like you do NOTHING for the game. Go back to under your bridge if you don't have anything constructive to say. At least these other people here disagree with me and have logical arguments to bring up. and back on to that, I think the logistics thing wouldn't happen because with current mechanics anyone repping a GCC gets the same flag and gets sentry aggro. And right now the sentrys add about 300 DPS you need to tank. If we upped it to say 600 DPS I think we could see some interesting things happen. I think we should try it myself.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:35:00 - [57] Quote: And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. THIS++. you need to learn to metagame if you want an effective counter to gatecamps.
Shasz Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:35:00 - [58] I don't see the need for any change. If, as you suppose, there will be fewer and fewer targets entering low-sec due to the over-abundance of gatecamping, then the gatecampers will begin to starve for targets and move on to other things as well. If the carebears evolve and stop entering low-sec, the pirates will evolve too and stop camping dead gates. PINTO is now hiring and training newbies in high-sec **
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.20 14:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 20/05/2008 13:37:52 Originally by: RuleoftheBone And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. qft. you need to learn to metagame if you want an effective counter to gatecamps. Don't be an ass. OP claims 3 accounts and uses alt scout. He should know better. And fails at reading the handy map. As if it means something...I have only this account. Dat's it. A falcon alt would be nice...but I can't be asked. Gogo EWAR drones . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.20 14:17:00 - [60] is it or is it not ok to use alt to metagame?

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