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New pirate tactic for gatecamping?

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Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:39:00 - [1] I have known about this for a long time. As a Crane pilot, semi-active solo PvPer and Warp stabbed Bustard pilot I see a lot of gate camps. Because of my use of 3 accounts I normally haul with 2 and scout with one. Or I PvP with one and scout/scan with one. My normal areas of operation are not of importance, but I will say that I haul a lot of stuff between high sec and low sec so I see the gate camps that operate there. For a long time pirates used to just sit on a gate and wait for haulers to come in and they popped and scooped loot and then waited off their 15 minute aggo timer. A new tactic has seem to come into widespread (notice I used that word. It could have been first used much earlier) use in the past 6 months or so. I am seeing it more and more now. I call them "Pounce points." I think I heard them called that by a pirate in low-sec once and that is now what I call it. The gate camp (which normally has one HIC in gang) sits at a BM a few thousand KM off the gate and is aligned to the gate. They are off grid so people will not see anyone (unless they use the directional scanner). There is either an alt scout on the high sec side. Or if they campers are really organized they use a cloaked scout on the other side. This scout relays info on who is about to jump in. Once they get info that a solo-Raven (probably a mission runner PvE fit) or a hauler is jumping the scout gives order to the camp to WTZ to the gate. The person jumping in now gets WTFPWNED. WCS modules are no longer viable as the gang has a HIC in it (they have a HIC 80% of the time in my observations) The scout is not really effective as there is no one to see on grid. The directional scanner is of some use but you don't know of those ships are nearby, or if they are off pirating belts in a 14.8 AU range. Blockade Runners still get through most of the time (I had to burn back to the gate once. But a Crane doesn't have the grid to fit a 10MN MWD without using 100% of its PG) Any other ship has no chance save for intys and T1 frigs. (and maybe a few choice others) MWD + cloak trick can work sometimes. But this is only viable with non-combat ships. This is not my issue. I will now talk about my issues with this new tactic. Because of this becoming widespread, now anyone trying to enter low sec will be mostly unsucessful. They will stop trying altogether. If pirates thought thier lack of targets was bad now. It is going to get worse. IMO I think gates should be VERY safe for people to get through in low sec. If you let people get IN low sec thety may actually try to capitalize on the marginal extra profits to be made there. Now don't get me wrong. I think pirates should have a shot at these carebears. But actually go out and GET them! Find them in the belts! Probe them down in missions. Work FOR IT! I don't like that pirates have this no-risk (about as risky as me mining in high sec and getting suicided) gatecamping tactic now. Pirating should be fun and challenging. If we make the gates so dangerous no one can get in, no one will come. Then there will be ZERO targets for pirates to shoot at besides other pirates. My solutions? (don't flame me if you don't like them. I'm not a Dev and its not like these are going to be implemented. These are just ideas you can discuss with everyone and tell me why they are good or bad. 1. Scan Resolution penalty on the HICs. They were implemented to stop Super caps from camping gates, not to make pirating super easy and no-risk. These things are breaking low-sec worse then it was before. 2. Buffing gate guns (again). Yes I said it. I think it should be easy to get IN low-sec and try to exploit low-sec riches (giggle yeah right) Then if you DO hang around the pirates are going to try to find you. Its a game of cat and mouse. Not a game of stomp on the beetles as they scurry away from a gate. (as it is now). However, leave station guns alone. Contructive feedback?
Goyda Veni Vidi Vici. XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:46:00 - [2] This is not a new tactic, this has been around for some time. And it's a good tactic. No advanced warnings, lesser chance of someone else coming in and busting your ships up if they sit on a gate. These have been discussed ad-nauseum on the forums. For every person who gets ganked in a gatecamp, 3 others get away. It's a dangerous verse out there. Welcome to lowsec, enjoy your stay.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Goyda This is not a new tactic, this has been around for some time. And it's a good tactic. No advanced warnings, lesser chance of someone else coming in and busting your ships up if they sit on a gate. These have been discussed ad-nauseum on the forums. For every person who gets ganked in a gatecamp, 3 others get away. It's a dangerous verse out there. Welcome to lowsec, enjoy your stay. Your numbers may be correct. But you are including an all encompassing types of ships. Shuttles, noob ships, T1 frigs, inty, blockade runners etc. These things are getting through 90% of low sec camps anyway. Is that what you really want to catch? Blockade Runners yeah because they might be hauling something expensive. But the rest? Nothing but another killmail. T1 haulers, non nano-fitted cruisers, BCs BSes, EVERYTHING else will NOT get through. The reason 3 get away and 1 doesn't is because 3 people only dare bring through what WILL get through most of the time. 1 person tries to get something that is difficult to get through most of the time and gets caught nearly EVERY time.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:53:00 - [4] I think the low sec gate guns need to be powered up, and even put a few more out. This will help the carebear explore and pirates will need to start using other ways to get people. Or leave the guns alone and put a few EW guns out. Would make it a little tougher without making it concord tough. Originally by: Radcjk PvP in eve can be sort of rough. It's closer to bad sex. Usually an hour of two of foreplay followed by 5 minutes of disappointment. And the surprise at the end.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:56:00 - [5] look, fly the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong time, you get popped. It's been a while since I was popped at a gate (when I didn't start something myself). A long while. You make it sound as though these types of camps are everywhere. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:56:00 - [6] This tactic is as old as piracy is. I saw MAFIA doing it in 2006, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's older than that. Black Hand.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:06:00 - [7] This tactic is ancient and is far from risk free, quite the inverse if it's on a high sec entry point. All the hunters have to do is probe the spot, send in one ship with the rest of their gang either on stand by to warp to the gate or to the safespot depending on the pirate reaction. If it's a highsec gate the pirates are stuck and forced to slug it out. Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:11:00 - [8] I spend 90% of my time flying in low sec. In and out through chokepoints constantly. The best thing: Have a ship that can turn to any point and warp off in 2 seconds or less. Unless the gate is camped by someone sensor boosted to the point that they can lock that fast (which is very, very rare for a BC sized ship and up), no one is going to scram you. I haven't had my Crane ganked in months and months of flying in low sec. Oh yes, I put that power rig on the Crane to allow for the MWD. Yes, I've been ganked in my Ferox in low sec - but that's because I started firing first near the gate guns. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
kublai Caldari Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:12:00 - [9] Those are Stuka's. Not pounce points, and they're as old as this game. I speak on behalf of my corporation Even when smacking
ridik ulass R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:16:00 - [10] Edited by: ridik ulass on 19/05/2008 17:26:00 Edited by: ridik ulass on 19/05/2008 17:23:59 i call em ninjas....good times with the new expansion lo-sec will be fat so no worrys there ;-) its only good sense to use ninjas...sometimes they(we) will have off scan ninjas for juicy freighters with a bit of sense to scan with there alt... i know first hand gate camping is as pridictable as the flow of time usually the same gates are unfortinately camped day in,day out so cheack your map view kills in last 24hrs and avoid those systems if they are fat and a bait ship with a gang 1 jump out or in system is not un-heared off ider Blood on my torp or isk in my wallet
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:48:00 - [11] Please people, I don't really care how old the tactic is. I even mentioned in my OP that it couldbe old. but I'm seeing it more and used with more lethal effiecency with HIC which ARE NEW. I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. I just think the risk/reward needs to be tweaked toward the carebears a bit more. To the person who said you can just probe them out, yeah you can. And then your fleet warps on them and they are already aligned to the gate. So now they have a headstart to run away. You can try to flush them to the gate and have another fleet waiting there. But not everyone has a ton of ships in a fleet at thier disposal to break them in half. They would probably be called a blob by the pirates anyway. Anyways, I realize you there are ways to run from these camps. But the ships that can do it aren't the ones you want to be chasing anyway. You want fat juicy T1 haulers and PvE battleships right? Maybe eve mining Cruisers and barges? right? Yeah so letting them IN low sec and then probing them down would be better IMO.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Kehmor Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. huh wow... I don't think any of my OP could be considered a whine. Its some new (maybe not) ideas that may make the game better. I think most people agree that there needs to be more people AKA targets in low sec right?
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Kehmor Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. huh wow... I don't think any of my OP could be considered a whine. Its some new (maybe not) ideas that may make the game better. I think most people agree that there needs to be more people AKA targets in low sec right? I agree with you. HIC's make it almost impossible to bring large mission and mining ships into low sec. But you're wasting your time here in C&P. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh... for carebears, not pirates. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:13:00 - [14] Seems to me the pirates are taking an awful risk engaging on the gate to high-sec. You realize that means sentry guns will be pounding on them and they have no escape through the gate if your backup arrives and is too much for them? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Durethia Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:13:00 - [15] I wrote up a 0.0 gate camping tactic that's very similar to what your describing, biggest difference is that the people are within the target system. Basically, it's a bait and *****ambush tactic. Tactic for Gate Camping
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Seems to me the pirates are taking an awful risk engaging on the gate to high-sec. You realize that means sentry guns will be pounding on them and they have no escape through the gate if your backup arrives and is too much for them? If the pirates are Outlaws. I have come accross a TON of them that rat and mission enough to maintain a -0.1 to -4.9 so they can jump into the 0.5 sec system on the other side. It depends on the situation. And I realize C&P is full of pirates. So if I can get a decent reation to ideas here it must be a good idea! LOL
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:22:00 - [17] just use the logoffski tactics under cloak and hope u dont get bumped too fast:)
Swiftness Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:27:00 - [18] Edited by: Swiftness on 19/05/2008 18:33:36 Originally by: Cloora The scout is not really effective as there is no one to see on grid. The directional scanner is of some use but you don't know of those ships are nearby, or if they are off pirating belts in a 14.8 AU range. Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Swiftness Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway. No I don't disagree with you. I know advanced users of the directional scanner will get a big hint someone has a gang nearby at a pounce point. But its an advanced technique that most carebears dont know how to use well. I do exploration and probing so I have a good idea how to use it. Also, as far as your last edit. Again that is situational. A lot of times the pirates aren't globally flagged when they are ready to strike again in wait. Because they don't want to take sentry aggro right way. Only after they fire and hopefully they never get it cycled around to them anyway.
Darth Syphils Amarr Noshikkan	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:15:00 - [20] It is simple, if you wanna carebear in low sec bring a combat support group with you. If not stay in jita. Low sec is not meant for people to easily bring haulers through and make tons of isk with any risk involved.
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:24:00 - [21] Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:37:00 - [22] Thanks. I totally never thought of doing it this way... (seriously, I didn't ) We'll have to try this. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Svalentine2 Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Swiftness Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway. No I don't disagree with you. I know advanced users of the directional scanner will get a big hint someone has a gang nearby at a pounce point. But its an advanced technique that most carebears dont know how to use well. I do exploration and probing so I have a good idea how to use it. Also, as far as your last edit. Again that is situational. A lot of times the pirates aren't globally flagged when they are ready to strike again in wait. Because they don't want to take sentry aggro right way. Only after they fire and hopefully they never get it cycled around to them anyway. Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. Sval
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you.
Lady Godgifu	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:47:00 - [25] The scan resolution on HIC's needs to be nerfed to hell and back, they were introduced to tackly Titans and Moms not insta lock shuttles.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:49:00 - [26] Quote: Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. LOL thats a pretty good explanation. Except normally thats almost everyone in low sec. He he
Svalentine2 Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Cloora Quote: Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. LOL thats a pretty good explanation. Except normally thats almost everyone in low sec. He he lol, stay in highsec? I mean, no come to lowsec, it is very safe here. Sval
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Faife Cloora: you're right, but you're not going to hear it in this forum, don't bother. You're basically asking them for ideas to make their game harder. No one wants that. Yeah not sure why I try. And don't think I'm even really effected by any of this. We operate a Rhea. Hell, I just jump past the camps when I have big loads to haul.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Sionide Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. Holy comprehension Batman! I already told you. I don't HAVE to deal with it. Jump Freighter IV FTW. Just ideas being thrown out you negative nellys.

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