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New pirate tactic for gatecamping?

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Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:39:00 - [1] I have known about this for a long time. As a Crane pilot, semi-active solo PvPer and Warp stabbed Bustard pilot I see a lot of gate camps. Because of my use of 3 accounts I normally haul with 2 and scout with one. Or I PvP with one and scout/scan with one. My normal areas of operation are not of importance, but I will say that I haul a lot of stuff between high sec and low sec so I see the gate camps that operate there. For a long time pirates used to just sit on a gate and wait for haulers to come in and they popped and scooped loot and then waited off their 15 minute aggo timer. A new tactic has seem to come into widespread (notice I used that word. It could have been first used much earlier) use in the past 6 months or so. I am seeing it more and more now. I call them "Pounce points." I think I heard them called that by a pirate in low-sec once and that is now what I call it. The gate camp (which normally has one HIC in gang) sits at a BM a few thousand KM off the gate and is aligned to the gate. They are off grid so people will not see anyone (unless they use the directional scanner). There is either an alt scout on the high sec side. Or if they campers are really organized they use a cloaked scout on the other side. This scout relays info on who is about to jump in. Once they get info that a solo-Raven (probably a mission runner PvE fit) or a hauler is jumping the scout gives order to the camp to WTZ to the gate. The person jumping in now gets WTFPWNED. WCS modules are no longer viable as the gang has a HIC in it (they have a HIC 80% of the time in my observations) The scout is not really effective as there is no one to see on grid. The directional scanner is of some use but you don't know of those ships are nearby, or if they are off pirating belts in a 14.8 AU range. Blockade Runners still get through most of the time (I had to burn back to the gate once. But a Crane doesn't have the grid to fit a 10MN MWD without using 100% of its PG) Any other ship has no chance save for intys and T1 frigs. (and maybe a few choice others) MWD + cloak trick can work sometimes. But this is only viable with non-combat ships. This is not my issue. I will now talk about my issues with this new tactic. Because of this becoming widespread, now anyone trying to enter low sec will be mostly unsucessful. They will stop trying altogether. If pirates thought thier lack of targets was bad now. It is going to get worse. IMO I think gates should be VERY safe for people to get through in low sec. If you let people get IN low sec thety may actually try to capitalize on the marginal extra profits to be made there. Now don't get me wrong. I think pirates should have a shot at these carebears. But actually go out and GET them! Find them in the belts! Probe them down in missions. Work FOR IT! I don't like that pirates have this no-risk (about as risky as me mining in high sec and getting suicided) gatecamping tactic now. Pirating should be fun and challenging. If we make the gates so dangerous no one can get in, no one will come. Then there will be ZERO targets for pirates to shoot at besides other pirates. My solutions? (don't flame me if you don't like them. I'm not a Dev and its not like these are going to be implemented. These are just ideas you can discuss with everyone and tell me why they are good or bad. 1. Scan Resolution penalty on the HICs. They were implemented to stop Super caps from camping gates, not to make pirating super easy and no-risk. These things are breaking low-sec worse then it was before. 2. Buffing gate guns (again). Yes I said it. I think it should be easy to get IN low-sec and try to exploit low-sec riches (giggle yeah right) Then if you DO hang around the pirates are going to try to find you. Its a game of cat and mouse. Not a game of stomp on the beetles as they scurry away from a gate. (as it is now). However, leave station guns alone. Contructive feedback?
Goyda Veni Vidi Vici. XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:46:00 - [2] This is not a new tactic, this has been around for some time. And it's a good tactic. No advanced warnings, lesser chance of someone else coming in and busting your ships up if they sit on a gate. These have been discussed ad-nauseum on the forums. For every person who gets ganked in a gatecamp, 3 others get away. It's a dangerous verse out there. Welcome to lowsec, enjoy your stay.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Goyda This is not a new tactic, this has been around for some time. And it's a good tactic. No advanced warnings, lesser chance of someone else coming in and busting your ships up if they sit on a gate. These have been discussed ad-nauseum on the forums. For every person who gets ganked in a gatecamp, 3 others get away. It's a dangerous verse out there. Welcome to lowsec, enjoy your stay. Your numbers may be correct. But you are including an all encompassing types of ships. Shuttles, noob ships, T1 frigs, inty, blockade runners etc. These things are getting through 90% of low sec camps anyway. Is that what you really want to catch? Blockade Runners yeah because they might be hauling something expensive. But the rest? Nothing but another killmail. T1 haulers, non nano-fitted cruisers, BCs BSes, EVERYTHING else will NOT get through. The reason 3 get away and 1 doesn't is because 3 people only dare bring through what WILL get through most of the time. 1 person tries to get something that is difficult to get through most of the time and gets caught nearly EVERY time.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:53:00 - [4] I think the low sec gate guns need to be powered up, and even put a few more out. This will help the carebear explore and pirates will need to start using other ways to get people. Or leave the guns alone and put a few EW guns out. Would make it a little tougher without making it concord tough. Originally by: Radcjk PvP in eve can be sort of rough. It's closer to bad sex. Usually an hour of two of foreplay followed by 5 minutes of disappointment. And the surprise at the end.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:56:00 - [5] look, fly the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong time, you get popped. It's been a while since I was popped at a gate (when I didn't start something myself). A long while. You make it sound as though these types of camps are everywhere. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:56:00 - [6] This tactic is as old as piracy is. I saw MAFIA doing it in 2006, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's older than that. Black Hand.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:06:00 - [7] This tactic is ancient and is far from risk free, quite the inverse if it's on a high sec entry point. All the hunters have to do is probe the spot, send in one ship with the rest of their gang either on stand by to warp to the gate or to the safespot depending on the pirate reaction. If it's a highsec gate the pirates are stuck and forced to slug it out. Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:11:00 - [8] I spend 90% of my time flying in low sec. In and out through chokepoints constantly. The best thing: Have a ship that can turn to any point and warp off in 2 seconds or less. Unless the gate is camped by someone sensor boosted to the point that they can lock that fast (which is very, very rare for a BC sized ship and up), no one is going to scram you. I haven't had my Crane ganked in months and months of flying in low sec. Oh yes, I put that power rig on the Crane to allow for the MWD. Yes, I've been ganked in my Ferox in low sec - but that's because I started firing first near the gate guns. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
kublai Caldari Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:12:00 - [9] Those are Stuka's. Not pounce points, and they're as old as this game. I speak on behalf of my corporation Even when smacking
ridik ulass R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:16:00 - [10] Edited by: ridik ulass on 19/05/2008 17:26:00 Edited by: ridik ulass on 19/05/2008 17:23:59 i call em ninjas....good times with the new expansion lo-sec will be fat so no worrys there ;-) its only good sense to use ninjas...sometimes they(we) will have off scan ninjas for juicy freighters with a bit of sense to scan with there alt... i know first hand gate camping is as pridictable as the flow of time usually the same gates are unfortinately camped day in,day out so cheack your map view kills in last 24hrs and avoid those systems if they are fat and a bait ship with a gang 1 jump out or in system is not un-heared off ider Blood on my torp or isk in my wallet
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:48:00 - [11] Please people, I don't really care how old the tactic is. I even mentioned in my OP that it couldbe old. but I'm seeing it more and used with more lethal effiecency with HIC which ARE NEW. I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. I just think the risk/reward needs to be tweaked toward the carebears a bit more. To the person who said you can just probe them out, yeah you can. And then your fleet warps on them and they are already aligned to the gate. So now they have a headstart to run away. You can try to flush them to the gate and have another fleet waiting there. But not everyone has a ton of ships in a fleet at thier disposal to break them in half. They would probably be called a blob by the pirates anyway. Anyways, I realize you there are ways to run from these camps. But the ships that can do it aren't the ones you want to be chasing anyway. You want fat juicy T1 haulers and PvE battleships right? Maybe eve mining Cruisers and barges? right? Yeah so letting them IN low sec and then probing them down would be better IMO.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Kehmor Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. huh wow... I don't think any of my OP could be considered a whine. Its some new (maybe not) ideas that may make the game better. I think most people agree that there needs to be more people AKA targets in low sec right?
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Kehmor Quit your whining, learn to use a scanner, use probes if you're really paranoid. huh wow... I don't think any of my OP could be considered a whine. Its some new (maybe not) ideas that may make the game better. I think most people agree that there needs to be more people AKA targets in low sec right? I agree with you. HIC's make it almost impossible to bring large mission and mining ships into low sec. But you're wasting your time here in C&P. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh... for carebears, not pirates. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:13:00 - [14] Seems to me the pirates are taking an awful risk engaging on the gate to high-sec. You realize that means sentry guns will be pounding on them and they have no escape through the gate if your backup arrives and is too much for them? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Durethia Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:13:00 - [15] I wrote up a 0.0 gate camping tactic that's very similar to what your describing, biggest difference is that the people are within the target system. Basically, it's a bait and *****ambush tactic. Tactic for Gate Camping
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Seems to me the pirates are taking an awful risk engaging on the gate to high-sec. You realize that means sentry guns will be pounding on them and they have no escape through the gate if your backup arrives and is too much for them? If the pirates are Outlaws. I have come accross a TON of them that rat and mission enough to maintain a -0.1 to -4.9 so they can jump into the 0.5 sec system on the other side. It depends on the situation. And I realize C&P is full of pirates. So if I can get a decent reation to ideas here it must be a good idea! LOL
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:22:00 - [17] just use the logoffski tactics under cloak and hope u dont get bumped too fast:)
Swiftness Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:27:00 - [18] Edited by: Swiftness on 19/05/2008 18:33:36 Originally by: Cloora The scout is not really effective as there is no one to see on grid. The directional scanner is of some use but you don't know of those ships are nearby, or if they are off pirating belts in a 14.8 AU range. Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Swiftness Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway. No I don't disagree with you. I know advanced users of the directional scanner will get a big hint someone has a gang nearby at a pounce point. But its an advanced technique that most carebears dont know how to use well. I do exploration and probing so I have a good idea how to use it. Also, as far as your last edit. Again that is situational. A lot of times the pirates aren't globally flagged when they are ready to strike again in wait. Because they don't want to take sentry aggro right way. Only after they fire and hopefully they never get it cycled around to them anyway.
Darth Syphils Amarr Noshikkan	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:15:00 - [20] It is simple, if you wanna carebear in low sec bring a combat support group with you. If not stay in jita. Low sec is not meant for people to easily bring haulers through and make tons of isk with any risk involved.
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:24:00 - [21] Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:37:00 - [22] Thanks. I totally never thought of doing it this way... (seriously, I didn't ) We'll have to try this. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Svalentine2 Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Swiftness Sorry but this is wrong, the tools are here for detecting such a camp. If you have a buddy scouting, make sure he does know how the directional scanner works ; if you use an alt, then learn to use it yourself As others have also mentioned, this tactic isnt risk-free at all ... engaging on a gate leading to high-sec as an outlaw is risky business, especially in a shiny T2 cruiser. If the high sec system next door is busy, its easy to hide backup in it and send a bait. Edit : actually the outlaw status doesn't matter, try jumping in high sec while criminally flagged some day -10.0 or +5.0, concord will gank you anyway. No I don't disagree with you. I know advanced users of the directional scanner will get a big hint someone has a gang nearby at a pounce point. But its an advanced technique that most carebears dont know how to use well. I do exploration and probing so I have a good idea how to use it. Also, as far as your last edit. Again that is situational. A lot of times the pirates aren't globally flagged when they are ready to strike again in wait. Because they don't want to take sentry aggro right way. Only after they fire and hopefully they never get it cycled around to them anyway. Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. Sval
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you.
Lady Godgifu	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:47:00 - [25] The scan resolution on HIC's needs to be nerfed to hell and back, they were introduced to tackly Titans and Moms not insta lock shuttles.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:49:00 - [26] Quote: Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. LOL thats a pretty good explanation. Except normally thats almost everyone in low sec. He he
Svalentine2 Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Cloora Quote: Here's a low tech version. Have your alt jump in, look at local. Are there lots of big nasty mean looking sweaty folks leaning on their Harleys, with heabands, tatoos, long stringy hair? Probably not a good place to go. LOL thats a pretty good explanation. Except normally thats almost everyone in low sec. He he lol, stay in highsec? I mean, no come to lowsec, it is very safe here. Sval
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Faife Cloora: you're right, but you're not going to hear it in this forum, don't bother. You're basically asking them for ideas to make their game harder. No one wants that. Yeah not sure why I try. And don't think I'm even really effected by any of this. We operate a Rhea. Hell, I just jump past the camps when I have big loads to haul.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Sionide Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. Holy comprehension Batman! I already told you. I don't HAVE to deal with it. Jump Freighter IV FTW. Just ideas being thrown out you negative nellys.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Cloora Edited by: Cloora on 19/05/2008 19:46:00 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! You are mad that someone is proposing that we remove your low risk ISK making machine. I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you. That story is pretty hilarious.
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Cloora Originally by: Sionide Originally by: Cloora Contructive feedback? Yep, deal with it. Holy comprehension Batman! I already told you. I don't HAVE to deal with it. Jump Freighter IV FTW. Just ideas being thrown out you negative nellys. So your problem is solved...what's the issue again? Whine some more? === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Kurundo Garon	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:39:00 - [33] just a random question but where are these camps? i fly trough low sec quite a lot but i never seen ones like this.
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:49:00 - [34] There's a million names for the spots, and it's nothing new. All you need is a directional scanner and a look at local to tell if there's a camp going. It's simply a counter to the norm of scouts now, it's not foolproof but it is an example of a pirate using the game mechanics to his advantage, which is simply smarter, and by no means an exploit. It doesn't need to be nerfed, and there's plenty of ways to counter this. Gate guns do not need to be buffed and HIC's are fine. The current age is that anti-pirates can use nano's in low-sec where outlaw's can't very effectively, and all it takes is one vaga to take out a small camp should it sit on the gate. ITT: I suggest gate guns be affected by transversal so nano-ships dont instapop Recruitment: [ANTI]
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:54:00 - [35] Would also make frigates useful outside of belts and deadspaces in lowsec if gate guns were affected by transversal - I like frigates... been wishing for something like that for the whole time 8 months I been playing (almost a year I'm so excited!!!!1 Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 20:55:00 - [36] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 19/05/2008 20:54:52 Originally by: Cloora Edited by: Cloora on 19/05/2008 19:46:00 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! You are mad that someone is proposing that we remove your low risk ISK making machine. I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you. LOL ISK making machine you say huh? Good thing I don't make my ISK by pirating, its called an alt you very bright person. You wanted to buy back the minerals at some discount, do you think we are going to give someone who we just killed his minerals back at a discount? **** that. Deal with low-sec it's your problem that you aren't scouting, deal with it and stop being a crybaby. Blah blah, eve is a worse place because of people like me. In fact EVE is a better place because I make noobs like you realize how ignorant you are when stating something that could have been AVOIDED BY SCOUTING. Hello, my name is common sense. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 21:04:00 - [37] Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 21:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. for the first part of your post- Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. for the second part- I actually kinda like that idea and it would be a large change to the way the game works but might be worth it to explore further. Posts like yours are a refreshing breath of fresh air compared to people like the FINAL STAND that do nothing for the game except bring the game's community down a notch.
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.05.19 22:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Faife Cloora: you're right, but you're not going to hear it in this forum, don't bother. You're basically asking them for ideas to make their game harder. No one wants that. No, Cloora, you're not right. You are nowhere near the country in which the word 'right' resides in. Allow me to illuminate: I am not a pirate. I am one of the few carebears that enjoys being on the edge of my seat to see if I can pull off the vast amount of profit that low sec brings. The problem arises when an idiot asshat, such as yourself, comes into the forums (C&P, no less) to give 'ideas' on how to make the game 'better' when the only thing you are looking for is exactly what you accuse the pirates of.. making it easier for you to make easy money. I am TIRED of all of the noobs asking to nerf this and 'I need an autopilot that wtz' that. You want no risk is all. Go play Hello Kitty Online if that's what you want and leave my beautiful game of teeth-grinding, bone-crunching, jaw-clenching BOOM BOOM alone. It's just fine as it is. I like Eve because of its harsh environment and would quit if it were anything less. BTW, pirates' money isn't easy... sitting at a gate is. Now if you want to make it harder for you could make their pods play Rick Astley... that would be harsh. ^^
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:15:00 - [40] Ninja camping is old as lowsec. Buffing gate guns will do nothing to curb this. Quite the opposite , people permacamp gates because it's viable (with split aggro in BC/BS) and worth the benefit of catching more people when there is enough traffic (Rancer) Gate camping is old as the game. Most of the pvp happens at gates. Scouting a ninja camp is trivial , check local to see who has a crim - lots of people in an usually empty system ? Must be a camp. Scanner usage isn't just 360 at max range , it's up to you to sort ships on scan and figure which ones are together according to their location and distance to the gate. If you see several battleships nearby and lots of people with crim , they aren't minding their own business salvaging a complex. Duh.
xenodia Gallente Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:36:00 - [41] This tactic has been around for years, WAY predating the introduction of HIC's. The only change is that with the HICs, your stabbed out t2 hauler can get caught now, instead of being basically immune to scrambling by anything smaller than a 5 ship gang. But in all fairness... HIC's dont lock all that fast, so a properly fitted blockade runner and most ships smaller than cruiser sized can align and warp off fast enough to avoid getting scrammed. Put a couple of Istabs on your blockade runner and youre good to go. This signature space for rent
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:37:00 - [42] Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 19/05/2008 23:38:39 Originally by: Cloora Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. Pirates may camp solo now, but if you boost gate guns they won't... all that would do is force us pirates to either camp with greater numbers, logistics, tactics. In the end we would be more lethal and less would escape. Though less gates would get camped at any given time. Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Boost gate-guns? Yeah that's a grand idea. All you end up doing is increasing the number of pirates. If you want less pirates, then you lower the strength of the guns. This will come as an amazing shock, but pirates don't like to share. We (well formerly "we") want to keep all the juicy loot for ourselves and not have to share any with a bunch of chumps who were just there to soak up damage. If pirates could camp gates solo, they would. If pirate could camp gates in a cruiser, they would. Much cheaper for the pirate, more survivable for the victim. Another alternative is to change the way gates work. Create a warp disruption bubble that stops everybody at 15km away from the gate, and then let the jump thru appear up to 100km away from the gate on the other side. Forces pirates to catch people coming to the gate, not after they've jumped thru. Then the gatecamp becomes more of a static encampment, far more defensive in nature, and more prone to being broken up. Plus it gives the victim more of a chance since they can scout it without actually having to purchase a second account. And that right there is the reason why it probably will never change. To much of a money investment for CCP, plus the blind jump means more ship losses which keeps the economy running. Vladimir's second idea sounds interesting, but it would pretty much make all combat on gates in low-sec consentual (unless you are an idiot and WTZ to a gate unscouted). Another side effect would be that us pirates would be FAR safer sitting in jump range of a gate inside a 15km bubble with the ability to jump through and decloak at a random point 100km from the gate. I don't want to make it any harder for people to come try (and sometimes succeed!) to kill me as what we really live for is a good gang fight.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 23:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Cloora Hello? they already solo-camp. I've tanked gate guns in my Zealot no problem. Sure, some pirates will solo-camp. But it's a losing proposition in the long run. For every solo glory-kill of a hauler filled with BPOs that gets posted on C&P, there are another 1000 that never get posted where some poor chump pirate in a HAC or pimped out BS got warp scrammed by a ceptor, or had a gang drop on them, or got pummeled by what they though was a soft target. Just not a cost effective way of gate-camping as the risk FAR outweighs the probable rewards. Just because it can or has been done, doesn't make it a common occurence (or even a wise one). Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.05.20 00:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Cloora I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. Bring a few battleships and a falcon or two. Unless it's a huge camp the pirates won't engage. Hey presto! access to low sec. -
Lex Alandar	Posted - 2008.05.20 00:54:00 - [45] I'd just like to say that I don't see the point of this post. The problem you seem to have is with getting battleships/battlecruisers etc. into lowsec. First thing you should contemplate doing, maybe....MAKE them in lowsec? That aside, your proposed changes would not affect this tactic at all. Making gateguns stronger, or adding more (and let me tell you, some gates suffer from a bug of 2x extra sentry guns which are invisible) would just make this tactic MORE necessary. The whole point of this tactic is to remain safe, not taking damage from guns, while being able to warp quickly to the gate. While you are removing scan res from the HICs, why not take bubbles away from their little brothers? Or for that matter, just lower all tracking from ships that fit guns. Oh hey, you could also make it so that caldari ships can't fit launchers. It's a ship made to lock down targets. If a gang is willing to put a 150mil (not counting mods/rigs) CRUISER on a gate just to lock you down (need I add they are also the first to take aggro) then I think they deserve enough scan res to actually do their job. HICs are fragile, despite their techII tank. Any decent damage dealing battleship can primary one and take it down before getting ripped apart by his friends. Thus leaving the way open for other ships to get through. As mentioned several times, use a scout! I think it's completely ridiculous that you claim the directional scanner is an 'advanced tactic' Directional scanning should be taught in the tutorial, I think. Anyone going to lowsec needs to use directional scan. Whether you are hunting for targets, or trying to stay safe, it's just plain indispensable, and ignoring it is not an excuse. There are several tactics that can help you get around this kind of gatecamp, and I won't get into them, since they are mostly psychological, and should be easy enough to figure out. Needless to say, if your enemy spends the majority of their time at a safespot off gate, there are several periods of time where they will not be aligned and able to get to the gate quickly enough. I can't imagine why you would think HICs were made to stop supercap gatecamping....anyone with a fleet large enough to take on a supercap on a gate would surely use tactics (proven ones btw) that would make the HIC completely unnecessary. Once again, it is a ship made to stop all ships in their tracks. You should have gotten over that by now, like the rest of the carebears, and moved on to tactics to get around it, rather than whining (and YES, it IS a whine post!).
Belial Tempter Amarr Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:49:00 - [46] lol. Aint nubs cute.
Avaricia The Accursed	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Cloora I am trying to discuss a way to enable carebears entry into low sec and still have pirates get a chance to gank them. not going through gatecamps is probably the easiest way to get into lowsec without going through a gatecamp. hint: it isn't that hard reign of terror griefmatic
Algia Knightstorm	Posted - 2008.05.20 09:54:00 - [48] How can you guys NOT see that he is actually trying to help you. The lo-Sec guys are ALWAYS on the forums moaning that not enough people come into lo-sec bla bla bla, make lo-sec more attractive bla bla bla. He has just given you an option to make it more attractive and you're all telling him he's an idiot. Personally I think he has it right. Let em in, let them run the gauntlet and see what happens. Jesus christ, it takes seconds to scan someone down once they are in system, have pirates really got that lazy that they can't be bothered to do that anymore?
Fivel Ve Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:04:00 - [49] Whenever heavy interdictors were introduced to the game some people saw the main problem with them - that they will scare off the non-pirate population even more so than it was scared to visit low sec before hics. The pirates said "learn to cloak, mwd, and align noob!". Unfortunately it didn't work this way and carebears grew even more alienated from low sec. Post ship setups here.
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:41:00 - [50] Edited by: joshmorris on 20/05/2008 11:42:43 Well here are my views, yes im a piwate. 1. Using a SS very near a gate is a old tactic not new. 2. Buffing the gate guns to what ? When i engage a person on a gate or station i have a extra 200 + dps on me. Buffing the gate guns would lead to me not engaging anymore and just brining a gank squad with lots of remote reps. If you want to buff the guns so that its so powerfull you cant remote rep to keep the damage off low sec would be a no risk zone on the gates ... 3. Gate camping = no risk you say. Its low risk when you have a few people with scout alts scattered around key systems. But when you get a bait bs come in and drop 2 motherships and a few carriers on your camp once in a while i think thats pretty risky. For people who say low sec is broken stfu, its not. You can get a corp together , move to a part of low sec and live quite happily. Just because a lone care bear (not saying the op is) cant move into low sec and make 0.0(sec) worth of isk in 5 mins doesn't mean low sec is broken. Edit - If the pirate gate camp is 10 people and has 4 scouts and you cant get past it solo what about getting 10 people yourself , scouting 4 different routes and get in that way ... Uber idea solves all !!
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:03:00 - [51] Quote: A new tactic has seem to come into widespread (notice I used that word. It could have been first used much earlier) use in the past 6 months or so. I am seeing it more and more now. I call them "Pounce points." I think I heard them called that by a pirate in low-sec once and that is now what I call it. This tactic is almost as old as EVE itself. Saw it in use in 2005 already and im fairly sure it was used earlier.
Dude Why	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:44:00 - [52] Even if you nerf the HIC, pirates will just use a lachesis. You don't seem to have that much of a clue about piracy. It's hard to 'Work for it' You can probe mission runners down, fair enough, but after you've got about 2 mission runners, they'll get wise to your scanner. As soon as you put him into local, they all dock up. You might get the odd one or two who are a bit thick, but generally, it's pointless. Same for belt work. No one rats in low sec anyway. Maybe in a cruiser hunting for faction rats. that's about it. And having been in lowsec for a year, i've seen one person mining. One.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:51:00 - [53] SS camping is silly. I've lost count of the number of psuedo-pirates ganked out of thier safe-spots. Thats easy pickings right there. Seriously. Solo HIC's wind up killing a few haulers or whatever thier paltry DPS can manage and wind up dying horribly to others. Waste of ISK unless in a gang. And easily avoided. And OP...use your F10 map. Number pods/ships killed in last hour will give you a big clue as to what may be awaiting. And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Chaos Breeze C.R.I.M.E	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:01:00 - [54] Edited by: Chaos Breeze on 20/05/2008 13:09:12 ok im one off the big bad boys in this tread and i fly a hics and we use that very tactic and there is no way devoter ( one of the best gate tackle in the game ) have that much off a chance of catching a shuttle on its own only if its pimped out the wazzu or the shuttle is very slow.what does come into play is when ppl land they start remote sensor boosting which gives you a nasty scan res catching almost anything the reason for this ridiculous scan res is to try and catch mwd cloakers if they to slow to cloak or whatever. what you really want is a stacking nerf on remote sensor boosting ( not likely being done ) not increase sentry gun damage as where suggested earlier in the year, we pirates would like to fly something less than a hac or recon just for the fact you get mor fight its also been suggested that you get tracking on sentrys so you could fly lesser ships for the nano****gotry. OH yeah and most pirates actually make their money off piracy and not running missions day in day out this is our only way off making ends meet. this is just us evolving our tactics to counter scout and/or mwd/cloaker cause they are the ones giving us a true payday. if you wanna move goodies trough pirate space you have to fight or pay for that right thats how it is....
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:12:00 - [55] the tools to tell you wether these guys is sitting 14 au away or 1000km away are allready ingame and has been since i started in 2004 not eve's fault ppl have no patience to learn to scan properly and only do max range pinpointing i would however know where ppl are with in a few seconds the tools are there just need to use em now i dont know why u are having such a hard time when in sniggwaffe(s******dly training corp) we have plenty of brand new to the game ppl who fly their haulers to lowsec with a full load of cargo exspanders and throw cruisers/bc's inside and they never seem to lose anything i also do this myself and have never had this problem in my awesome mamooth of slowness pirating is still fun and challenging i would regard gate camping as more like the pirate way of ratting tbh its dull boring but can be decent cash but sometimes we need to have a little fun a tbh killing a hauler has never provided much fun nerfing hic scan res would create a problem in it being able to perform properly it is meant to counter wcs seriously picture this you are doing a war in highsec now what good is a hic that takes 20s locking hacs/cruisers and now instead of tackling you with a hic they could just bump you with an alt in a vaga and as for buffing gate guns again all this will do is make sure we never agress ppl who are not blinky on gates in proper pvp as it is atm that allready provides harsh odds at times and since all this can be avoided by scouting properly nothing would justify this besides instead of using 10 ppl to camp you implement this next time there will be 20 so what did that fix ...
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Chomin H'ak No, Cloora, you're not right. You are nowhere near the country in which the word 'right' resides in. Allow me to illuminate: I am not a pirate. I am one of the few carebears that enjoys being on the edge of my seat to see if I can pull off the vast amount of profit that low sec brings. The problem arises when an idiot asshat, such as yourself, comes into the forums (C&P, no less) to give 'ideas' on how to make the game 'better' when the only thing you are looking for is exactly what you accuse the pirates of.. making it easier for you to make easy money. I am TIRED of all of the noobs asking to nerf this and 'I need an autopilot that wtz' that. You want no risk is all. Go play Hello Kitty Online if that's what you want and leave my beautiful game of teeth-grinding, bone-crunching, jaw-clenching BOOM BOOM alone. It's just fine as it is. I like Eve because of its harsh environment and would quit if it were anything less. BTW, pirates' money isn't easy... sitting at a gate is. Now if you want to make it harder for you could make their pods play Rick Astley... that would be harsh. ^^ Another person that fails on reading comprehension. I already make my ISK. This is not an issue for me. I am concerned about others. Unlike some people in this game I actually care about making it better and wanted to discuss ideas. Negative people like you do NOTHING for the game. Go back to under your bridge if you don't have anything constructive to say. At least these other people here disagree with me and have logical arguments to bring up. and back on to that, I think the logistics thing wouldn't happen because with current mechanics anyone repping a GCC gets the same flag and gets sentry aggro. And right now the sentrys add about 300 DPS you need to tank. If we upped it to say 600 DPS I think we could see some interesting things happen. I think we should try it myself.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:35:00 - [57] Quote: And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. THIS++. you need to learn to metagame if you want an effective counter to gatecamps.
Shasz Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:35:00 - [58] I don't see the need for any change. If, as you suppose, there will be fewer and fewer targets entering low-sec due to the over-abundance of gatecamping, then the gatecampers will begin to starve for targets and move on to other things as well. If the carebears evolve and stop entering low-sec, the pirates will evolve too and stop camping dead gates. PINTO is now hiring and training newbies in high-sec **
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.20 14:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 20/05/2008 13:37:52 Originally by: RuleoftheBone And use a scout. You should know better especially having the advantage of multiple accounts. qft. you need to learn to metagame if you want an effective counter to gatecamps. Don't be an ass. OP claims 3 accounts and uses alt scout. He should know better. And fails at reading the handy map. As if it means something...I have only this account. Dat's it. A falcon alt would be nice...but I can't be asked. Gogo EWAR drones . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.20 14:17:00 - [60] is it or is it not ok to use alt to metagame?
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 15:29:00 - [61] Edited by: Cloora on 20/05/2008 15:29:20 Originally by: RuleoftheBone Don't be an ass. OP claims 3 accounts and uses alt scout. He should know better. And fails at reading the handy map. As if it means something...I have only this account. Dat's it. A falcon alt would be nice...but I can't be asked. Gogo EWAR drones WTH? I never claimed to have been ganked. I use a scout. My friend got ganked a while ago. But thats because the scout didn't see the Onyx on directional. Reading at the 3rd grade level? LOL
Gustav Blackknight THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.20 15:31:00 - [62] Edited by: Gustav Blackknight on 20/05/2008 15:33:07 Edited by: Gustav Blackknight on 20/05/2008 15:31:34 Hey, here is a novel tactic to deal with pirate camps. Break the camps up. If we hold the tactical ability to blockade a system, you don't deserve a way to just slip through the camp. You wanna be able to fly with out ever fighting, stay in high sec noob corps. You wanna move stuff into low sec, grow a pair, get a convoy together and bring it. There are even some pirate corps out there that enjoy fighting and can handle loosing a few ships, as long as its a not a 3-1 blob with 5 ecm ships resulting in the fun being taken out of it. You'll find most pirate corps now days are composed of x 0.0 alliance members that got bored of pos blobfare. Carebares need to stop expecting non pvp solutions that allow them to access parts of the game. If you can't personally fight, get with a group that can.
Luke Lamarr Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.20 16:01:00 - [63] Edited by: Luke Lamarr on 20/05/2008 16:01:54 Originally by: Cloora I just think the risk/reward needs to be tweaked toward the carebears a bit more. You think? Have you tried warping to 0 to an armed hostile POS with a BS or lower? You will lose your ship and nothing will be there to defend you... And there is no risk whatsoever for the POS... Nerf the POS! Now, following the same line, you can try to get a crappy untanked ship through a gatecamp. You will also prolly pop, but this time you will have sentry guns protecting you, isn't that charming? (and I don't hear you whining bout the POSes, do I?) My point is, stop moving undefended ships without scouts through hostile camps, and you will stop losing ships. I don't think sentries should deal more damage because pirates are clever and carebears are not. EDIT: typo Originally by: The Icefox And remember kids. There's no way to spell fair with the letters F I G H T.
Tridik Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.05.20 16:46:00 - [64] Do you have any idea how hard it is to lock a Transport Pilot with a HIC? Its near on impossible if you're not half brain dead. CCP should NOT implement mechanics based on the idiocy of individuals.
Gustav Blackknight THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.20 16:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Tridik Do you have any idea how hard it is to lock a Transport Pilot with a HIC? Its near on impossible if you're not half brain dead. CCP should NOT implement mechanics based on the idiocy of individuals. Aggreed, its extreemely difficult if, especially if their fit properly. Viators can align and warp faster than some assult frigs. There are some modifications to gang members ships that can be used to help, but doing so sacrifices your camps ability to deal with a real fight when it comes, so we don't like to use it.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:04:00 - [66] Originally by: Gustav Blackknight There are even some pirate corps out there that enjoy fighting and can handle loosing a few ships, as long as its a not a 3-1 blob with 5 ecm ships resulting in the fun being taken out of it. You'll find most pirate corps now days are composed of x 0.0 alliance members that got bored of pos blobfare. I just want to point out this hypocrisy. I also don't mind losing ships. In fact I was in a Torp Raven with two corp mates one other was in a Bruitix and the other in a Zealot. I got tackled on a gate by a Harbinger and attempted to pop him even knowing his buddies were on the way. I was hoping to go down at least taking him with me. Unfortunatly I lost lock (still not sure how. Maybe ECM drones) My help arrived and then I ordered them out as we were outnumbered and they could save themselves. So I died in a 6:1 battle. I didn't mind as I was looking for a fight. I had the ability to shoot back. But I get bummed when I lose a hauler to a large outnumbering force that I am helpless against. OH LOOK AT THAT! You guys don't like fight like that too. Listen guys, we all want to have fun. The possibilty of losing a ship makes this game fun. HOWEVER, we like to have a CHANCE. Outnumbering gank forces are no fun. BUT I'm not here to argue that. Thats a fact of EVE. Just be friggen respectful about it when you GANK someone. No one likes a poor winner. BTW while I mentioned it, I would like to see ECM drones tell me I'm being jammed. I hate not having a timer bar.
Katie Door the united	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:06:00 - [67] to OP: have you ever gate camped, or done any pirating? if not, then how do u know it is easy?? with respect to transports: they go into warp almost as fast, if not faster, then shuttles. provided they are fitting for getting away (i-stabs/nanos's). we've tried to catch them with an interceptor remote sensor boosted to a scan res of 5400+ ( ) and couldn't even get a lock on it. that screams I-win button to me. so you wanna give a scan res penalty to HIC's..?? more I-win button anyone? carebears cried for WTZ (cose of the crap that happend with the whole BM thing and got WTZ for it). pirates have adapeted, why can't carebears. HIC's just made it a little easier to catch the 7 or 8 WCS fitted BS's that got away from my 6 point lachesis. u have any idea what is involved in gate camping. of corse not. yet you persist in making it even harder. sure, buff the sentries, again. WTF are you talking about, no risk gate camping, just goes to show you have no idea.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:07:00 - [68] Originally by: Gustav Blackknight Aggreed, its extreemely difficult if, especially if their fit properly. Viators can align and warp faster than some assult frigs. There are some modifications to gang members ships that can be used to help, but doing so sacrifices your camps ability to deal with a real fight when it comes, so we don't like to use it. I also agree with you. I fly a Crane. (with cargo expanders) I also fly my uber-blockade runner. It ia analagous to the Millenium Falcon. Agility rig ACR rig and Nano II's and a MWD. It is nearly uncatchable in low sec. I raced a guy in a similer fit Crane (he had no ACR rig and no MWD but more agility) in my Maledition from Piak to Torrinos and he was RIGHT with me. The only reason I won was because of the intys higher warp speeds. I was just throwing ideas out there. But a large majority of EVE players hate anything even being discussed of change.
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Katie Door to OP: have you ever gate camped, or done any pirating? if not, then how do u know it is easy?? with respect to transports: they go into warp almost as fast, if not faster, then shuttles. provided they are fitting for getting away (i-stabs/nanos's). we've tried to catch them with an interceptor remote sensor boosted to a scan res of 5400+ ( ) and couldn't even get a lock on it. that screams I-win button to me. so you wanna give a scan res penalty to HIC's..?? more I-win button anyone? carebears cried for WTZ (cose of the crap that happend with the whole BM thing and got WTZ for it). pirates have adapeted, why can't carebears. HIC's just made it a little easier to catch the 7 or 8 WCS fitted BS's that got away from my 6 point lachesis. u have any idea what is involved in gate camping. of corse not. yet you persist in making it even harder. sure, buff the sentries, again. WTF are you talking about, no risk gate camping, just goes to show you have no idea. Will you please realize I am trying to propose getting RID of gate camping in low sec? In 0,0 it is necessary. I think it belons in 0.0. In low sec I am trying to think of ways to increase the population in low sec and change it to where people can get IN low sec and TRY to make more ISK while pirates probe them down, intercept them in space (where there are NO sentries!) and gank them there. But at least the miner/hauler/Mission runner can TRY to get in. Hey I have a new idea. Only buff the guns on the gate in low sec that borders high sec. now low sec gate camps can still exist deeper in low sec and traders can get a better market in low sec in that first system? I dunno just mroe ideas running through my crazy head of mine. LOL
Tridik Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:13:00 - [70] When Change is ill-conceived from ignorance, I will fight it tooth and nail. You are clearly very ignorant on the matter of pirate gate camps and need to stop spewing idiocy.
Katie Door the united	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:27:00 - [71] why do you want to get rid of gate camping..?? like stated before, its been in the game since its inception. just cose you don't like doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. and reply to my other arguments while you are at it. removing gate camps from low sec would basically make it hi sec, with slightly more dangerous asteroid belts, minus Concord., hey lets just add concord to low sec, it'll be just like hi sec. and please explain why gate camps only ought to be in 0.0 ..??
Cloora Black River Industries	Posted - 2008.05.20 19:12:00 - [72] Originally by: Katie Door why do you want to get rid of gate camping..?? like stated before, its been in the game since its inception. just cose you don't like doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. and reply to my other arguments while you are at it. removing gate camps from low sec would basically make it hi sec, with slightly more dangerous asteroid belts, minus Concord., hey lets just add concord to low sec, it'll be just like hi sec. and please explain why gate camps only ought to be in 0.0 ..?? Just because an game mechanic has been in the game since inception does not make it right! That is never a good defense for an argument! EX: People have been murdering since mankind has existed! We shouldn't try to change it! (its rediculous isn't it?) Ok now with that out of the way. My whole point is this, I am trying to address the issue that low sec needs more population. We all agree on that? right? I hear pirates say it ALL the time! I'm thinking of ideas to help that. I'm not saying my ideas ARE the fix. I just want to discuss them. Get the brain juices flowing from everyone so we can help fix a problem. And before you went off on a ludicrous exaggeration I think you were right in the first place in your part here: "removing gate camps from low sec would basically make it hi sec, with slightly more dangerous asteroid belts, minus Concord., hey lets just add concord to low sec, it'll be just like hi sec." I'm not trying to REMOVE gate camps. If you don't have CONCORD then it will always be possible to camp a gate. I am just trying to make it a bit EASIER for non-pies to get in to try to exploit low sec's resources. Low sec is supposed to be a mid point in danger from fairly safe CONCORD protected high sec, to lawless 0.0 where anything goes. We all know that its not that way. Once you get past the 0.0 entry points which are camped more so then low sec camps, 0.0 is relativly safe because of low population. Low sec has been very high on the danger scale for ages. And its minerals and rats do not reflect this risk/reward relationship. Pirates operate in low sec by definition. That is where there is still "law" that they can break as much as they feel they want to. I understand that. However, if we can get non-pies INTO low sec easier then there will be MORE targets for pirates AND the non-pies have a CHANCE to exploit the slightly higher ISK making potential of low sec. That is all I am trying to do people. This isn't really personal at all. I operate in low sec and high sec just fine. I go out to 0.0 from time to time (just for fun). I am just trying to see if we can get things better. If you think everything in EVE is fine and dandy then thats another discussion we can have too.
Crusix Bargoth Amarr Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.20 19:41:00 - [73] Originally by: Lady Godgifu The scan resolution on HIC's needs to be nerfed to hell and back, they were introduced to tackly Titans and Moms not insta lock shuttles. See, now your just making stuff up. If your going to slam HIC's at least say something thats true, to lock a shuttle with any kind of quickness you have to fit 2 or 3 SB's, which pretty much destroys your tank or cap sustainability. There is no problem with HIC's a good inty pilot can do the same thing a HIC can do, and has been doing it far longer. People who whine about HIC's changing the game are the WCS people who want to travel with impunity. Arazu's, any inty with some skilled pilot, hell HAC's can put 4 points on you faster then a HIC, and if your fitting 5 WCS? you fail, fit some nano to align faster, HIC's lock slow as hell as is, to lock fast they have to nerf themselves. -HIC pilot. Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Rono Vizu Amarr Mishi Guards	Posted - 2008.05.20 20:05:00 - [74] Edited by: Rono Vizu on 20/05/2008 20:07:02 Edited by: Rono Vizu on 20/05/2008 20:06:06 I dont mind going thru gatecamps as a matter of fact I like the idea of being able to shutdown a gate in low sec so miners and other industrialist can mine undisturbed by pirates. Your post is fail, because The solution is not to have CCP discourage gatecamps. But players should discourage gatecamps by making it risky. If you want to stop gatecamps make it your mission to rid them where you find them. There was a corp of folks who did that to get their fleet battle fix. most of the time you can get some pretty good kills that way, as most pirates dont fell like anyone has the balls to crash their camp. I suggest to the op find a locally camped gate(with a scout ofcourse) rally a few local systems to support you in crashin the camp, or pay a merc group to do it.
Katie Door the united	Posted - 2008.05.20 20:11:00 - [75] you ARE trying to get rid of gate camps in low sec, you said so yourself, few posts back. "Will you please realize I am trying to propose getting RID of gate camping in low sec?" and what about insta warping, I-win button transports ..?? give them another boost ..?? make them go into warp faster then shuttles ..?? gate camping isn't a game mechanic, its a tactic, a way of playing eve. you wanting to get rid of gate camping would be the same as me wanting to get rid of mining in hi sec. and we are not complaining about the lack of targets, so keep your generalisations to yourself please. and still not seeing any replies to my arguments. you fail
Psorion The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.05.21 00:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Cloora Edited by: Cloora on 19/05/2008 19:46:00 Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Yes let's boost gate guns and stop pirating gate camping because some noob can't take a few minutes to scout the system he wants to go in. BRILLIANT. You know its people like you that make me want to give up on these forums. If you would have the ability to understand the reason people are posting ideas when you wouldn't be negative so often. This isn't a whine. In fact YOU are the whiner! You are mad that someone is proposing that we remove your low risk ISK making machine. I remember you now. Your corp popped a corp mate of mine. They tried to buy the loot back from you since it was goign to be difficult for you guys to offload since it was a bunch of moon minerals. There was no buy orders and only one sell order in the entire region. In fact the ONLY place you could have gotten any ISK for it was in Jita. They offered to buy it off of you AND congratulated you on your corps kill. We were NOTHING but respectful in local and in the convos. YOU were the nit wit that tried to get us to buy it back from you at Jita sell prices! Why the HELL would we do that? Why would I boost your freaking e-peen by congratulating you on your kill and THEN have you do nothing but INSULT us by giving us that response? You obviously aren't to be taken seriously. We are all playing this game together. If you are going to hate everyone else that isn't your corp then go for it. EVE is a worse place because of people like you. That story is pretty hilarious. Mmm sweet buttery tears.. Moar please
Psorion The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.05.21 00:34:00 - [77] Originally by: Cloora In low sec I am trying to think of ways to increase the population in low sec and change it to where people can get IN low sec and TRY to make more ISK while pirates probe them down,[y] intercept them in space (where there are NO sentries!) and gank them there.[/y] But at least the miner/hauler/Mission runner can TRY to get in. Hey I have a new idea. Only buff the guns on the gate in low sec that borders high sec. now low sec gate camps can still exist deeper in low sec and traders can get a better market in low sec in that first system? I dunno just mroe ideas running through my crazy head of mine. LOL Umm, unless they get you on the gate, how are they going to get you. If you, mr trader carebear market gambler transporter, warps to 0, warps away before someone (gatecamp) can tackle you on the gate, underfire and flagged, and warps to the station and dock. You have just been rewarded with 0 risk. The chance of probing out mission runners is very very low even with good scanning skills as the deadspace hides their signature. Who mines in lows sec when huge alliance powerblocks owning paragon soul etc can just mine away (umm. 3ppt is full of ice miners, go visit). Add that to the scannable asteroids(exploration) and other hidden belts (omber in level 3 and 4 missions) and miners can make risk free isk. Your idea needs the drawing board.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.21 00:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Faife Cloora: you're right, but you're not going to hear it in this forum, don't bother. You're basically asking them for ideas to make their game harder. No one wants that. Fit a dps setup and tank sentries... Not a lot of ships can hold up long with multiple damage mods fit, meaning that the pirates have to fit a heavier tank already, or know damn well they're going to win. That's why I started using a warp in point when camping, don't do it really anymore as I got bored. Not saying that sentries are hard to tank in lowsec, but not a whole lot of cheap setups that are fun to fly last long under sentry fire, and face it a lot of pirates don't make a ton of isk doing it. I've made a bit pirating, but hey... I win eve ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.21 00:50:00 - [79] Originally by: Cloora In low sec I am trying to think of ways to increase the population in low sec and change it to where people can get IN low sec and TRY to make more ISK while pirates probe them down, intercept them in space (where there are NO sentries!) and gank them there. But at least the miner/hauler/Mission runner can TRY to get in. Hey I have a new idea. Only buff the guns on the gate in low sec that borders high sec. now low sec gate camps can still exist deeper in low sec and traders can get a better market in low sec in that first system? I dunno just mroe ideas running through my crazy head of mine. LOL ... so you're saying make interdictors work like their description, and make them work in lowsec??? I ***** love you, have my babies. NOW! On a serious note, that's the only way that your suggestion would work, since the majority of the people who whine about dying in lowsec are not the ones who live there, and are only passing through... which with warp to zero means gate camps are here to stay. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster

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