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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
229
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Posted - 2012.03.06 10:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
These Skills are useful for any ship or profession and should be trained to IV as soon as you can :
Electronics (5 percent extra CPU/level)
Engineering (5 percent extra powergrid/level)
Energy Management (increases Capacitor capacity by 5 percent per level)
Energy Systems Operation (decreases Capacitor recharge time by 5 percent per level)
Mechanic (5 percent bonus to structure hit points per skill level)
Hull Upgrades (5 percent bonus to armor hit points per skill level)
Afterburner (10 percent bonus to Afterburner duration per skill level)
Navigation (5 percent bonus to sub-warp ship velocity per skill level)
Acceleration Control (5 percent Bonus to Afterburner and Microwarpdrive speed boost per skill level)
Evasive Maneuvering (5 percent improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
Fuel Conservation (10 percent reduction in Afterburner capacitor needs per skill level)
Warp Drive Operation (10 percent reduction in the Capacitor need of initiating warp)
Spaceship Command (2 percent improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
Weapons
Requires Gunnery II
Weapon Upgrades (5 percent reduction in the CPU needs of weapon turrets, launchers and smartbombs per skill level)
Train this to V, afterwards train
Advanced Weapon Upgrades (2 percent reduction in the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers per per skill level)
to IV
Shield Tanking
Shield Management (5 percent bonus to shield capacity per skill level)
Shield Operation (5 percent reduction in shield recharge time per skill level)
Armour Tanking
Repair Systems (5 percent reduction in repair systems duration per skill level)
Drones (can be used on most ships)
Drones (Can operate 1 drone per skill level)
Scout Drone Operation (Can use Light and Medium Scout Drones, drone control range increased by 5000 meters per skill level)
Protip: If you train Drones to V you can train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing to IV which gives another 3000 metres drone control range bonus per level in addition to letting you use the ...
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
25
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Posted - 2012.03.06 10:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think you forgot Shield upgrades. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
229
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Posted - 2012.03.06 10:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:I think you forgot Shield upgrades.
Not technically essential for Shield Tanking and I got to draw the line somewhere to fit it all into one post :P
In practice you will train this of course, but my point here is that the two listed shield skills will be of benefit to an armor tanker as well even if he is not using any shield-related modules.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! |
Field Artillery
Dust 515
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
mentioning drones without drone interfacing?, consider adding drone interfacing instead of the +3km control range talk (if you don't want to make the list too long).
And the reasoning behind training afterburner to 3 (yes only 3) is unlocking high-speed maneuvering (= MWDs)
nice list otherwise o/ |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
164
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just noting that the Afterburner skill can have some downsides on dual-prop setups (one of the only skills in the game where it's not strictly beneficial to have higher), and given the low cap requirements of afterburners I'd question putting their related skills on a 'train-to-IV-immediately' list. Not to quibble but it can be a pain at times.
EDIT: as per above I wouldn't train it past three |
Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
17
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:I think you forgot Shield upgrades. Not technically essential for Shield Tanking and I got to draw the line somewhere to fit it all into one post :P In practice you will train this of course, but my point here is that the two listed shield skills will be of benefit to an armor tanker as well even if he is not using any shield-related modules.
Then you shouldn't call it shield tanking. what you describe is a shield buffer which really doesn't help a lot. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
229
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grikath wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:I think you forgot Shield upgrades. Not technically essential for Shield Tanking and I got to draw the line somewhere to fit it all into one post :P In practice you will train this of course, but my point here is that the two listed shield skills will be of benefit to an armor tanker as well even if he is not using any shield-related modules. Then you shouldn't call it shield tanking. what you describe is a shield buffer which really doesn't help a lot.
You've convinced me and I will add Shield upgrades.
Field Artillery wrote:mentioning drones without drone interfacing?, consider adding drone interfacing instead of the +3km control range talk (if you don't want to make the list too long).
While the 20 percent/level bonus of Drone Interfacing is indeed absolutely necessary for serious drone users, it does require Drones V to train and thus I consider it beyond the basic skills set.
However, the EW drone talk is a bit advanced too and I will cut that out too. For the record this was it
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
25
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Not technically essential for Shield Tanking and I got to draw the line somewhere to fit it all into one post :P
In practice you will train this of course, but my point here is that the two listed shield skills will be of benefit to an armor tanker as well even if he is not using any shield-related modules.
I disagree, fitting problems are quite common as a starting player.
Shield upgrades trains faster and earlier than advanced weapon upgrades (needs Weapon Upgrades 5) and is one of the few skills to remove stress of you powergrid.
but in the end it's Louis's ecpic skill guide
Edit: nevermind you where already convinced |
Liam Mirren
312
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Posted - 2012.03.06 11:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Appreciate the effort but there's 2 things I'm missing, thing is ofcourse that there'll always be things missing in a short list but still.
1) targeting, getting that to 2-3 makes life a lot easier for ppl who choose to do combat
2) even though you aim to list specific skills it would be handy if you'd mention support skills for things like gunnery and missiles. I know that wasn't your outset but simply stating that they exist (and how to find them) while conveying the importance of them would make your guide more complete.
Minor gripes, no more.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Shinae Rawlinn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.03.25 11:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Great little list, I'll be sure as a 4-day old to put this into my EVEmon queue.
+1 to the likes for Louis. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1079
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Posted - 2012.03.25 12:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:While the 20 percent/level bonus of Drone Interfacing is indeed absolutely necessary for serious drone users, it does require Drones V to train and thus I consider it beyond the basic skills set. However, the EW drone talk is a bit advanced too and I will cut that out too. For the record this was it
Drones 5 is part of the basic skill set though. When suggesting fits for people, it's flat out assumed that everyone except special-purpose alts (cyno, trade, etc) has Drones 5. Everyone.
Also, you're missing Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 from the Shield Tanking list, and Shield Compensation (for active tanks) too. Especially Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 (not 5 though) is extremely important for shield tanking in any ship other than a full-passive brick (like the NH or Rattler). |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 04:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Drones 5 is part of the basic skill set though. When suggesting fits for people, it's flat out assumed that everyone except special-purpose alts (cyno, trade, etc) has Drones 5. Everyone.
Given that this is posted in New Citizens', I suspect this is a list of skills easily trained to 4 on a new character before you start pushing things to 5. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
237
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Posted - 2012.03.27 07:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:mxzf wrote:Drones 5 is part of the basic skill set though. When suggesting fits for people, it's flat out assumed that everyone except special-purpose alts (cyno, trade, etc) has Drones 5. Everyone. Given that this is posted in New Citizens', I suspect this is a list of skills easily trained to 4 on a new character before you start pushing things to 5.
Yes that is indeed the point. It is difficult to draw a line between basic and intermediate and beyond, but this is pretty close I think. I also recommend the ingame certificate system (especially the core certificates) as a decent guide to skill training.
mxzf wrote:Drones 5 is part of the basic skill set though. When suggesting fits for people, it's flat out assumed that everyone except special-purpose alts (cyno, trade, etc) has Drones 5. Everyone.
Also, you're missing Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 from the Shield Tanking list, and Shield Compensation (for active tanks) too. Especially Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 (not 5 though) is extremely important for shield tanking in any ship other than a full-passive brick (like the NH or Rattler).
For a full passive or active shield tanking set you would train additional skills. You would also train armor compensation skills for good armor tanking.
Most beginner ships won't let you use 5 drones so Drones V is not an essential skill level. Anyone serious about drones will eventually put millions of skillpoints in drones of course.
When you start flying battleships leet drone skills are almost essential anyway as the big guns/missiles will be very ineffective against small ships, so you need drones to handle them or die the death of a thousand pinpricks.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Toshiro GreyHawk
168
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Posted - 2012.03.27 10:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nice list.
Everyone's going to have a few little differences in how they do things - but this is a very good list for a beginner. Anything they train in this area will stay with them for pretty much any ship they use in the rest of their EVE career.
Without adding any of my own little preferences - I'll point out some of the reasons some of these skill areas are important:
One thing a lot of people miss about the Navigation skills - is that they pretty much all effect your Cap usage - either directly - or by letting you accomplish something faster and there by use less cap to do it. One thing a lot of rookies have trouble with - is running out of cap when they try to use their AB's and shield boosters/armor repairers at the same time. Good Navigation Skills can mitigate that.
The Repair Systems skill has a similar effect to the Navigation Skills for Armor Tankers - by allowing you to get your self repaired quicker - and thus need less cap to do the job. Additionally - with the ability to repair your own armor - even for a Shield Tanker - you can just fit an Armor Repairer and/or Hull Repairer to your ship when you come back to the station - and fix your own hull & armor as well, thus saving you the cost of having the station do it - if it even can.
One thing about the shield skills - is that even for an armor tanker - it is good to have these trained up. For one thing - most people use industrials - and with the low slots on those ships taken up by cargo hold expanders - (other than specialty fits) they pretty much default to shield tanking. The other thing is - again even if you are an armor tanker - they have to get through your shields to get to your armor - so anything that slows that down (and doesn't require a module slot that splits your tank) is of benefit. If you are running missions - then you may NEVER get into your armor - and thus any shield skills you've trained up will let you go on to the next zone sooner with your ships defenses at full capacity.
As to Drone skills - one of the first skills a rookie should train - is Drones and Scout Drone operation. Even trained to Level I (which is done in minutes) they will let your rookie ship field a drone - and not only do ALL rookie ships have drones but those drones are a major part of what little fire power these ships have. Of course - your Gallente pilots will want to train Drones to Level II so they get both the drones the Velator can carry. One of the things Veteran pilots will do now and then for a lark - is to see just what they can do with a rookie ship. With full Drone Skills - you'd be surprised at the rats you can pop with a rookie ship ... you just ... need to be careful about how much damage you take ...
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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
237
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Good points, but...
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:The Repair Systems skill has a similar effect to the Navigation Skills for Armor Tankers - by allowing you to get your self repaired quicker - and thus need less cap to do the job.
...a higher Repair Systems skill will decrease the repair cycle duration, increasing your armor tank efficiency as you repair faster, but increasing the cap usage, as each repair cycle will eat cap and the cycles are shorter.
Total cap usage will be the same of course, but cap will be drained faster the faster your repair.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Sin Pew
SWARTA
Mostly Clueless
8
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wish I saw that kind of guide in the first days, instead of popping SP all over the place and painfully grinding the core skills now.
:sadpanda:
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars
Side Effect.
152
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Posted - 2012.03.27 12:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Good points, but... Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:The Repair Systems skill has a similar effect to the Navigation Skills for Armor Tankers - by allowing you to get your self repaired quicker - and thus need less cap to do the job. ...a higher Repair Systems skill will decrease the repair cycle duration, increasing your armor tank efficiency as you repair faster, but increasing the cap usage, as each repair cycle will eat cap and the cycles are shorter. Total cap usage will be the same of course, but cap will be drained faster the faster your repair.
True,
But his point:, low skilled pilot needs to run the repair module for 3 minutes to repair, that is 3 minutes that you run the repair module together with any other active module, so you have double cap usage for that whole 3 minutes.
When a player is better skilled they can for instance repair the same amount of damage in say 1 minute (with same cap required to do so, same amount of cycles but quicker). This means you only double drain your capacitor for 1 minute instead of 3 minutes, means you are less cap heavy for most of the time.
Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á
If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it.
We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Sin Pew
SWARTA
Mostly Clueless
8
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Posted - 2012.03.27 13:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Just out of curiosity, I've read some cons about afterburner trained above 3, but I couldn't really understand the issue, I just remember it was about dual props and many people said they wished they didn't train AB to 5...
EDIT: nvm, it was mentionned earlier in the thread *rubs eyes*
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
Toshiro GreyHawk
170
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Posted - 2012.03.28 12:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Good points, but... Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:The Repair Systems skill has a similar effect to the Navigation Skills for Armor Tankers - by allowing you to get your self repaired quicker - and thus need less cap to do the job. ...a higher Repair Systems skill will decrease the repair cycle duration, increasing your armor tank efficiency as you repair faster, but increasing the cap usage, as each repair cycle will eat cap and the cycles are shorter. Total cap usage will be the same of course, but cap will be drained faster the faster your repair.
Guess I didn't know as much as I thought I did about that. Thanks for the correction.
. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
105
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Posted - 2012.03.28 13:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Glad you said 4 and not 5.
I hate it when people tell new players they NEED X Y and Z at lvl 5 -¼-¼
Also, all the other general gunnery skills help at some point, controlled burst etc. |
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Vila eNorvic
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.04.02 12:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:Just noting that the Afterburner skill can have some downsides on dual-prop setups (one of the only skills in the game where it's not strictly beneficial to have higher), and given the low cap requirements of afterburners I'd question putting their related skills on a 'train-to-IV-immediately' list. Not to quibble but it can be a pain at times.
EDIT: as per above I wouldn't train it past three
I've already trained AB to IV.
What possible penalty have I incurred? |
Sin Pew
SWARTA
Mostly Clueless
13
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Posted - 2012.04.02 12:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
10% bonus to Afterburner duration per skill level.
That means if you have a dual-prop fit, your AB might run too long for you to swap to MWD with the least penalizing delay during a fight, as far as I understood it.
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
250
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vila eNorvic wrote:I've already trained AB to IV.
What possible penalty have I incurred?
It is a tradeoff issue I think. The higher the afterburner skill the longer the duration on single cap cycle. So the higher the skill the less capacitor you use (which is good).
However, if you use an afterburner and a microwarpdrive on the same ship this can sometimes be a problem as you cannot activate the microwarpdrive as long as the afterburner cycle has not finished.
A kind of similar technical problem happens with the Drone Navigation skill, where your drones MWD faster, but it also makes them overshoot the targets more.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Vila eNorvic
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.04.02 13:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:10% bonus to Afterburner duration per skill level.
That means if you have a dual-prop fit, your AB might run too long for you to swap to MWD with the least penalizing delay during a fight, as far as I understood it.
Louis deGuerre wrote:Vila eNorvic wrote:I've already trained AB to IV.
What possible penalty have I incurred? It is a tradeoff issue I think. The higher the afterburner skill the longer the duration on single cap cycle. So the higher the skill the less capacitor you use (which is good). However, if you use an afterburner and a microwarpdrive on the same ship this can sometimes be a problem as you cannot activate the microwarpdrive as long as the afterburner cycle has not finished. A similar tradeoff problem happens with the Drone Navigation skill, where your drones MWD faster, but it also makes them overshoot the targets more.
Thanks.
Regarding Drone Navigation, I was already aware of that issue but I'm sure I read somewhere that it had been corrected. |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.17 12:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
bump |
Inari Visas
The Alteiran Intergalactic Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.18 09:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm just going for core certs first, adding other skills needed to fly ships. Is it not more simple? |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
295
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 10:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Inari Visas wrote:I'm just going for core certs first, adding other skills needed to fly ships. Is it not more simple?
The certificates (while I am a big fan) don't include all the basic required skills and some things are just wrong. I really recommend using the certificate system to help you choose what to train, but it is not flawless.
So this guide and the certificates overlap, but are not meant to be identical but supporting.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
James Yee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.01 23:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
*Applauds*
Thank you for the "Basics" list. I'm restarting my EVE career after 5 years in the cold and I have to say a lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. So having a list like this is saving me some headaches. :)
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Jason Atkins
In Tergo Nostra
6
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:These Skills are useful for any ship or profession and should be trained to IV as soon as you can : Electronics (5 percent extra CPU/level)
Engineering (5 percent extra powergrid/level)
Energy Management (increases Capacitor capacity by 5 percent per level)
Energy Systems Operation (decreases Capacitor recharge time by 5 percent per level)
Mechanic (5 percent bonus to structure hit points per skill level)
Hull Upgrades (5 percent bonus to armor hit points per skill level)
Afterburner (10 percent bonus to Afterburner duration per skill level)
Navigation (5 percent bonus to sub-warp ship velocity per skill level)
Acceleration Control (5 percent Bonus to Afterburner and Microwarpdrive speed boost per skill level)
Evasive Maneuvering (5 percent improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
Fuel Conservation (10 percent reduction in Afterburner capacitor needs per skill level)
Warp Drive Operation (10 percent reduction in the Capacitor need of initiating warp)
Spaceship Command (2 percent improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
WeaponsRequires Gunnery II Weapon Upgrades (5 percent reduction in the CPU needs of weapon turrets, launchers and smartbombs per skill level)
Train this to V, afterwards train Advanced Weapon Upgrades (2 percent reduction in the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers per per skill level)
to IV Shield TankingShield Management (5 percent bonus to shield capacity per skill level)
Shield Operation (5 percent reduction in shield recharge time per skill level)
Shield Upgrades (5 percent reduction in shield upgrade powergrid needs per skill level)
Armour TankingRepair Systems (5 percent reduction in repair systems duration per skill level)
Drones (can be used on most ships) Drones (Can operate 1 drone per skill level)
Scout Drone Operation (Can use Light and Medium Scout Drones, drone control range increased by 5000 meters per skill level)
Note that while there are ways to affect your ships's drones abilities and the drone control range, there is no way to increase the bandwidth of your ship. If you do missions you will get implants... |
Mooistories
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 06:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks, you pointed some basics things i skipped <3
Nice guide |
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