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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Ruri Atreides
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:23:00 -
[601] - Quote
Dearest CCP
1. Why are you trying to change something that isnt broken 2. Having the ability to fly every sub cap ship in the game has taken me YEARS of paying for this game so anything that may jeprodize that does not get my vote. 3. I really dont want to pay for the clone grades that would be required for having 4 BC 5 skills.
In my bitter vet opinion this makes the system even more complicated than it already is. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
297
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:23:00 -
[602] - Quote
I'll be honest, I can see the rationale for battlecruisers, but splitting the destroyer skill into 4 when there's only 1 T1 destroyer for each race right now seems unnecessary.
(unless this is a hint that more destroyers are coming???) ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Tinkietoo
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:24:00 -
[603] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Messilina wrote:VaL Iscariot wrote:Thanks for dumbing the game down, CCP. You guys pull that **** with Capitals, Command Ships, and Battlecruisers, I'm done. I'm not spending four months training up all the battlecruisers to 5 and I really don't appreciate you 'streamlining' this game so a bunch of new fags can understand it better. Kick them in the ass and tell them to read a mother ******* book and stop giving away hand outs. Battleship V should be a requirement to fly a ******* capital ship. Comparing that to the progression to a Hulk places high in my top 5 boneheaded things CCP has said.
You should be making this game harder, not easier. Think about that before you **** everything up... again. Agreed. It becomes ever more obvious that the devs don't play eve, or at least they don't pvp, which is just as damning. All that is obvious is that you two have serious reading comprehension issues. "If you can fly it today, you'll be able to fly it tomorrow."
You have serious comprehension issues for failing to understand the original point and then commenting anyway. |
BolsterBomb
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
19
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:25:00 -
[604] - Quote
I think these changes are good.
I have recently cross trained into amaar and when you start the cross train its like..hmm what do I do.
I do like being able to fly almost any ship when you train certain skills to 4 and 5 but in all fairness it does allow you to do a ton of crap with not training into a particular race.
I like how eve will now force you to choose a role and play it. Currently we can reship to a dozen different things to combat a current battle. Yes that is cool but it does make a lot of players jack of trades master of none.
Is this good / bad. Neither.
I see this method trying to attract new players though not a re balance of current ships.
I think this will make people actually train to do something specific and be a true "specialist"
I think the solution is very simple as far as the SP
Reimburse ALL SP and let players put them where they want. This is a big enough game changer that you simply say here is your points put them where you want.
Lt. Colonel of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
6
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:25:00 -
[605] - Quote
Death to tier system: cool
Death to nonracial battlecruiser/destroyer skills: less cool. I'm real happy for all the guys who can fly every command ship already and will be able to do so after the change and I'm gonna let them finish, but...I was kind of hoping to be able to do that myself someday. Currently you get up to eight ships from BC V, depending on how many racial cruisers you've trained to V. The new system gives you two. Training each racial cruiser to V gives a huge payoff in ships available per racial skill. The payoff for the racial BC V skills isn't nearly as good.
I hope the rebalancing plan continues to evolve; I detect the potential for awesome within. |
Morar Santee
64
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:25:00 -
[606] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: What the heck? No dude, Tiericide is proof positive that they DO play and PVP.
-Liang
Actually: No, it isn't. If there is a problem with ships of a certain Tier being useless, then the answer is to rebalance the ships of that Tier. Very carefully. With as little intervention as possible.
I see all Tiers of Battleships being used. So the answer to ships not being used is not scrapping Tiers and implementing an arbitrary line of ships that forces me to use a single ship with a single fit if I want to do XYZ. This is, in fact, so much worse than Tiers that it's not even on the same scale anymore. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
277
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:26:00 -
[607] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:WAIT A MINUTE.
I fly all 8 Racial command ships(7 except for EOS lulz).
You're telling me that I'll have only one racial BC to V (or sp to get), but I have to retrain 3 other Racial BC V (80+ days) just to fly those again?!?
No. Go read the dev posts FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
222
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:26:00 -
[608] - Quote
Knug LiDi wrote:Despite the howling wind about SP and BC 5, for me the single most important thing I saw in the blog was the image showing t1 (tech one) ships in the centre at the bottom with navy the pirate ships showing increasing improvement. T2 on the right showing increasing specialization and t3 on the left showing increasing flexibility
BUT OF CRITICAL IMPORTANCE was T2 being higher in "improvement" than T3
T2 ships are optimized for a single role - a T3 ship, being more flexible can do many things, and all those things better than t1 and possibly Navy ships. But they are not supposed to be "improved" enough to do T2 roles better than T2 ships
T2 logistic ships should be better than T3 ships in that role (repping)
T2 field command ships should be better than T3 ships in this role (brawling)
T2 fleet command ships should be better than T3 ships in that role (boosting)
A cov ops (scanner not stealth bomber) should be a better probing/scanning ship than a T3
Similarly for other T2 roles.
I look forward to seeing the changes that bring T3 ships below T2 ships, for that specific t2 role.
THIS.
Right now it's t3 or go home. Legions>zealots in every way t3 booster>any command ship Loki>any t2 mimnitar ship...faster than a vaga, ganker than a munin....
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade Republic Alliance
19
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:26:00 -
[609] - Quote
Ruri Atreides wrote:Dearest CCP
1. Why are you trying to change something that isnt broken
"Nuff said". And if the devs pvp'd then they would realize the obvious faux pas of stating that Megathrons/Apocalypses are anything other than plated to high hell; which is what battleships are in any reality, big guns, lots of armor. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
955
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:28:00 -
[610] - Quote
Morar Santee wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: What the heck? No dude, Tiericide is proof positive that they DO play and PVP.
-Liang
Actually: No, it isn't. If there is a problem with ships of a certain Tier being useless, then the answer is to rebalance the ships of that Tier. Very carefully. With as little intervention as possible. I see all Tiers of Battleships being used. So the answer to ships not being used is not scrapping Tiers and implementing an arbitrary line of ships that forces me to use a single ship with a single fit if I want to do XYZ. This is, in fact, so much worse than Tiers that it's not even on the same scale anymore.
Did you even read the dev blog? Your counter example was very specifically cited in it.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Avitus Caius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:29:00 -
[611] - Quote
It all sounds great to me.
Just do it right and **** the people who end up bitching about it let them unsub and then welcome the new people who replace them. |
Seraph Razgriz
Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:29:00 -
[612] - Quote
As a new player(relatively in eve) here are my views. If you give people who have trained battle cruiser five all the racial battle cruiser fives, then my training time to get to the same level as that person who was maybe only a month older then me, is now multiplied by four. he went for command ships right away, i took my time, and now to get to the same level as him, i have to train for four months to be at the same level as a guy who trained for one month. IF you do the whole, what you fly yesterday you fly today. implying that you will get all battle cruiser fives if you had it trained before the switch. Its not fair if you dont do that. and its not fair if you do.
and capitals. Yes, they are T1, but only needing battleship four? that doesnt feel right. they are capital ships, they shouldnt be a walk in the park to get into. Hey, it would be awesome not to train battleship five, but at the same time..... i should have to.
What about those who only trained battleship five on races PURELY to get a carrier? will they get their battleship five allocated back to them? |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:30:00 -
[613] - Quote
Morar Santee wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: What the heck? No dude, Tiericide is proof positive that they DO play and PVP.
-Liang
Actually: No, it isn't. If there is a problem with ships of a certain Tier being useless, then the answer is to rebalance the ships of that Tier. Very carefully. With as little intervention as possible. I see all Tiers of Battleships being used. So the answer to ships not being used is not scrapping Tiers and implementing an arbitrary line of ships that forces me to use a single ship with a single fit if I want to do XYZ. This is, in fact, so much worse than Tiers that it's not even on the same scale anymore.
Did you read the blog?
They acknowledge that Battleships have the smallest tier problem because the proportional difference of slots and EHP is the least in that class!
Where as for frigs, cruisers and battlecruisers the tiers make more that half the ships ridiculous to fly in combat or their current role.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
16
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:30:00 -
[614] - Quote
Ruri Atreides wrote:Dearest CCP
1. Why are you trying to change something that isnt broken 2. Having the ability to fly every sub cap ship in the game has taken me YEARS of paying for this game so anything that may jeprodize that does not get my vote. 3. I really dont want to pay for the clone grades that would be required for having 4 BC 5 skills. .
Good point, hadn' t thought about that. If the new racial bc skills for example are the same tier as the existing one then people could feasibly be boosted up into new clone levels....and they do get expensive. (not sure how much of a concern it really is though since they would inevitably reach that new clone level before long without the changes anyway)
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Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
243
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:30:00 -
[615] - Quote
I just plain don't see the point. Destroyers are special frigates, battlecruisers are special cruisers. We've never had "Minmatar Assault Ships" or "Amarr Covert Ops", so what isn't arbitrary about these changes?
What's been suggested doesn't add anything to the game, it only causes confusion and stress for most players. Warp drive failure indicator: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=887805#post887805 |
stoicfaux
765
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:31:00 -
[616] - Quote
Skills like Logistics or Interceptors are currently generic. Are these skills also being broken up into "[faction] Logistics" skills?
So under the new system, if I want to train an Amarr Logistic Tech II cruiser, would it require: *Amarr Frigate IV * Amarr Destroyer IV * Amarr Cruiser V * Amarr Logistics I or "generic" Logistics I . * Signature Analysis V . * Long Range Targeting V
Also, the proposed skill tree looks a lot like the T3 Strategic Cruiser tree. A base skill (faction Strategic Cruisers == Amarr Frigate or Amarr Battleship) and then faction specific ship skills (Amarr Offensive Systems == generic/Amarr Logistics or generic/Amarr Heavy Assault Ships.)
edit: damn "save draft" feature is lopping off the last character of lines. Use "chomp" not "chop" dammit.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
20
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:33:00 -
[617] - Quote
Wow so you've spent the last little while trolling the playerbase left after :last year: by arsing around with module/missile names and general ui trashing, that hasn't been bad enough so now you want to screw not only with pretty much every ship ingame, but the skill system as well? Everyone could talk forever on which ships they feel need a tweak one way or another, I don't think there's many would say you need to tear it up and start from scratch with a new design concept for ships of EVE (basicly what the blog seems to suggest. And maybe I've missed it, but please enlighten me and point out the epic threadnaughts on the forums about how terrible the skills system is and how we need to totally redo that as well (other than the people that want to be able to grind max sp in everything by leaving abot shooting stuff for a few days). Again you take a part of the game that maybe has 1 or 2 little curiosities to work out, and throw out the baby and bathtub along with the water.
To be slightly constructive at least in this post, please just outright promise (and then DELIVER) that you'll grant everyone every new skill that they'd have to retrain, to the level they have it atm. To be perfectly, mind numbingly clear, if you do actually go ahead and make racial destroyer/bc skills, you need to give someone like myself all those new skills to 5 right away, same for every ship that might become inacessable due to revised skill reqs.
Requiring new skills/training for new ships is all fine and to be expected, if you expect people to want to retrain to fly hulls they've had avalible for #sometime# you're incredibly stupid, even for the standards of CCP.
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
154
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:34:00 -
[618] - Quote
So if i have minmatar cruiser 3, battlecruiser 5 and command ships 4 will i be able to fly claymore after patch? Im not able to today but i will have minmatar battlecruiser 5 |
PRLord
Violent Force Productions The Phoenix Regime
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:34:00 -
[619] - Quote
First generic and lazy sounding modules, now dumbing down the ship system and making it even harder for young players to be versatile. What you see as streamlining many see as cheapening the game into a cookie cutter form that takes is sacrificing player knowledge and innovations. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
278
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:35:00 -
[620] - Quote
TheLostPenguin wrote: Requiring new skills/training for new ships is all fine and to be expected, if you expect people to want to retrain to fly hulls they've had avalible for #sometime# you're incredibly stupid, even for the standards of CCP.
Good thing they're not doing this then. Go read the dev posts. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
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Avitus Caius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:36:00 -
[621] - Quote
Avitus Caius wrote:It all sounds great to me.
Just do it right and **** the people who end up bitching about it let them unsub and then welcome the new people who replace them.
Again this..... |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:36:00 -
[622] - Quote
Love the idea of getting rid of tiers and opening up the ability to make some of the redundant ships useful again. Though at times I wonder if there are perhaps too many types of frigates for each race. I guess it depends on the bonuses applied to each ship, but perhaps some of the lesser used frigs could be reconfigured to simply provide a cosmetic option for newer players.
As for skill point reimbursement, create special skill books.
If someone has the ability to fly more than one type of cruiser, give them SP to allow them to fly one cruiser based on their race, but then give them skill books that automatically train them to the same level for their race of choice.
Pre-patch: can fly 3 cruiser types post-patch: can fly racial cruiser, but also have 2 skill books that, when injected, increase the skill level to exactly what is needed for them to continue flying the other cruisers they are used to flying. Previously at Cruiser 4? Get a skill book for 4. Previously at 5? get a skill book for 5.
Same with BC's.
Doing this instead of re-imbursing skill points not only allows users to quickly get back into their favorite ships, but also gives them the option of holding deciding to train traditionally for one of them, and then sell the special skillbook via contracts for some Isk.
As for the industrial side, the tiny bit of commentary in the blog dedicated to that is a joke. Just leave mining and industrial as it is. You are great at doing that anyway. Profit favors the prepared |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
70
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:36:00 -
[623] - Quote
CCP! This is a genial move!!! You guys are realy doing it right! By balancing the game this way you will expand many times the game content, as you are bringing back to life everything that was obsolete, and making them count!!!!
ALTHOUG CCP, WE REALY NEED A CLOAK HUNTER SHIP ASAP! CLOAK IS UNBALANCED THE WAY IT IS NOW!
Now cloak is used as a griefing tool known as AFK Coaking, this prevents people from minning and rating on null-sec, sending many players back to hi-sec, also force all industrials and minners to stay on Hi-sec. This colls down the whole game!! Whille the afk cloaker just sits there as a bot ( afk playing ). |
Harocko K'zack
Rookies Empire Rookie Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:37:00 -
[624] - Quote
Plain and simple response:
1. do the the roles thing you suggested. 2. do NOT mess with destroyers or battlecruisers.
In my eyes, #1 is a good thing, and #2 is a bad thing.
Yes CCP is greatly known for adding advantages and disadvantages to EVERYTHING they do, but when you do it when your trying to FIX somehting, its pointless to even "Fix" it at that point
By "Fix" im talking about streamlining. How is it stramlining when you now just added 2 books that wssnt there to beguin with? Dessies and Bc's have always been optional and have always been very generic ships. they shoudl stay that way |
Morar Santee
51
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:37:00 -
[625] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Morar Santee wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: What the heck? No dude, Tiericide is proof positive that they DO play and PVP.
-Liang
Actually: No, it isn't. If there is a problem with ships of a certain Tier being useless, then the answer is to rebalance the ships of that Tier. Very carefully. With as little intervention as possible. I see all Tiers of Battleships being used. So the answer to ships not being used is not scrapping Tiers and implementing an arbitrary line of ships that forces me to use a single ship with a single fit if I want to do XYZ. This is, in fact, so much worse than Tiers that it's not even on the same scale anymore. Did you even read the dev blog? Your counter example was very specifically cited in it. -Liang
No ****. So we agree that more slots allow for more versatility and are a good thing, because they allow different ships to be used in different ways.
Solution: Introduce Lines of ships. With a dedicated role and slot layout to be only useful in that role.
Now that you pointed it out, yeah, totally makes sense. Or wait - no it doesn't.
Now, this is just an idea, we could go back to my original point that ships should be carefully balanced. This can include slot layout. Or giving Tier 1 BCs an advantage over their Tier 2 counterparts. It makes no sense the Hurricane packs more DPS and is exactly as fast/agile as the Cyclone. There's a ton of tweaks that could help. Screwing over EVE's core gameplay is not one of them. |
Sernum
Total Mayhem. Northern Coalition.
8
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:38:00 -
[626] - Quote
April fools? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1297
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:38:00 -
[627] - Quote
As a veteran, I feel I must be bitter about this, regardless of what the changes are all about and how they will affect me.
Nothing personal, it's in the global rules of MMO participation that all changes are to be despised and fought against with all kinds of bitter hatred and rhetoric, going to ALL CAPS if necessary per the Geneva Convention.
Reading about the actual changes is not even required.
So... uh...... let me begin....
These changes suck. They will ruin the game. My brothers sisters cousins roommate with the 25 accounts is going to unsub and single-handedly bankrupt CCP. Armies of darkness will march across the face of the earth and puppies will be sad all because of CCP, and .....Marsha Marsha Marsha!
Forgive me if I missed anything.
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
42
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:38:00 -
[628] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:We've never had "Minmatar Assault Ships" or "Amarr Covert Ops", so what isn't arbitrary about these changes?
#***#! **&&$$$! ***$#@@! Shhhhhh Don't remind them. |
Danny Centauri
Real Time Industries
40
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:38:00 -
[629] - Quote
Ultimately I'm pretty chill no matter what you do as long as at the end of it I can: - Continue cross training into all commandships without losing any time to get to my goal. - Reclaim any wasted skill points like AFs/HACs etc that I don't need anymore to fly the ship.
Understandable the changes you want to make, massive and not the most obvious place to start (hello turret specialisations for large t2 guns) but hey CCP do like big ideas.
Protip: "It's much better to get to first base consistently than to try to hit a home run and strike out 9 times out of 10." The McKinsey Way (1999) |
james1122
Aperture Harmonics K162
17
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:39:00 -
[630] - Quote
The delivery of this blog was pretty bad, Please dear god run this stuff past the csm. Surely that's what they are there for.....
replacing bc 5 with all racial bcs 5 is an acceptable solution but I would then strongly urge you to look into clone costs as you are talking of a 6m + sp injection.
Tiericide is one of the best things you can do and sooo glad to hear that you are pressing for it :) :) :) :)
Slightly concerned that you are dropping the prereq for capitals. One thing we don't need in this game is even more caps running around.
Overall fairly promising news just make sure people aren't required to re-train skills Two Step for CSM |
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