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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |

Ranshe
Blackwater Company
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:13:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote: Really ? Check my friend the new t3 training time differences and the old one. Just 1.5 month longer with the new idea the learning time.
Except it's not 1.5 month longer, it's 2 days for training destroyers to 4 between frigate and cruiser skill. |

Jazzmyn
The Ghost Division
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:17:00 -
[1052] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok this thread needs some love now.
SKILLS:
[list]
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
Heeeey, u cant change this now, i just changed 10 of my alts skill training into BC5. 
Fight ! Fight ! Never surrender, never surrender ! |

Effortless Breeze
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:34:00 -
[1053] - Quote
So CCP, what exactly is it? You've only released incomplete statements about how current skills will translate over to your new system
Dev blog wrote:Split Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills into 4 racial variants, and turn them into requirements for training upper classes. Amarr Battleship would now require Amarr Battlecruiser at 4.
This tidbit makes it seem the progression you are aiming at
Racial Frigate IV unlocks Racial Destroyer Racial Destroyer IV unlocks Racial Cruiser. Racial Cruiser IV unlocks Racial Battlecruiser Racial Battlecruiser IV unlocks Racial Battleship Racial Battleship IV unlocks Racial Capital
This image also supports that idea
CCP Soundwave wrote: No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up. source
So I could fly any of the destroyers with racial frigate 1 and racial destroyer current on TQ. I could fly any battle cruiser on TQ with racial cruiser III and Battlecruiser III
I could fly Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Battleships and Capitals without destroyers on TQ I could fly Battleships and Capitals without battle cruisers at all on TQ
So if I had neither battlecruisers or destroyers trained but say racial battleship IV trained, I wouldn't be able to fly it without getting both racial destroyer IV or racial battlecruiser IV post patch
So assuming that you will be able to fly all ships you can fly post patch, any level of racial cruiser trained would need to get a racial destroyer to IV added to your characters skills. Any level of racial battleship or capital would require both racial destroyer AND racial battlecruiser IV to be added to the character sheet
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
source
Alright so any levels trained of Destroyers and Battlecruisers will translate to the 4 new racial variations
But on TQ, you only need racial frigate III and destroyers I to fly a destroyer. You only need racial cruiser III and battlecruiser III to fly a battlecruiser. The new system implies you need all smaller ship classes to IV to move up a ship hull
An example, somebody with Caldari Cruiser III, Battlecruiser V and the skillbook for destroyers not injected at all. What would they get? They could get all racial variants of battlecruiser V added to their skill sheet but they would be lacking not only Racial Destroyer IV, but also Racial Cruiser IV. Would this example get those additional skills as well in order to follow on CCP's soundwave statement that you will be able to fly everything you could pre-patch?
Or say somebody with Battlecruiser III, destroyer II and Racial Battleship V. If you translate the original battle cruiser and destroyer skill levels, they will get all racial destroyers II and all racial battlecruisers III. However, this will not allow them to fly battleships or larger in the new system (since they don't have racial destroyers to IV or cruisers to IV)
In order to get all Racial Battlecruisers to V and all Racial Destroyers to V, do you need to train other things assuming you already have Battlecruisers V and Destroyers V on TQ currently? If you have any battleship or capital skills would you need to train destroyers to IV and battlecruisers to IV to use those? |

ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation
76
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:34:00 -
[1054] - Quote
I forsee destroyer and BC skill book prices to rocket :D - Nulla Curas |

Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:39:00 -
[1055] - Quote
So I take it's that those who have BC V will have all racial BC V skills when this change goes live ?
Only way to have this makes sense is to see what ship you can currently fly, so if I learn all (racial)frigate- to IV and cruiser skills to III and I get all the goodies from BC skill change re: 3x BC V insta learned ? |

Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:40:00 -
[1056] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:I forsee destroyer and BC skill book prices to rocket :D
wonder how since they are NPC seeded ?   |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
214
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:45:00 -
[1057] - Quote
So I'm going to go from being able to fly 4 different battle cruisers at level 5 to only being able to fly one.... Brilliant 
I want at least double the amount of the skill points currently needed to train BC's to 5 back when this change happens.
Edit: okay, after reading a CCP post above, as long as I will be able to fly the ships I can fly now at the same level, I'll be happy... Especially if it paves the way for pirate faction BC's  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5424
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:45:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Baneken wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:I forsee destroyer and BC skill book prices to rocket :D wonder how since they are NPC seeded ?   NPC seeded items still react to market pressures GÇö if you empty out the supply of an NPC item, it will be restocked at a higher price. Likewise, if you let items sit in the market without anything being bought, the prices slowly adjust downward.
Sure, it's not nearly as direct as for PC-built items, but a mechanism is in place to emulate the behaviour.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
941
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:45:00 -
[1059] - Quote
I really like the general idea of these changes, looks promising. For now, I will not b+tch about details like skill point reimbursement and stuff, I consider the whole thing "work in progress" and I am just going to assume that those details will be decided upon later with ample feedback by the CSM.
thumbs up for those new ideas. -.- |

Cain Thanatos
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:47:00 -
[1060] - Quote
As long as it's 1) wisely implemented and 2) people are solidly, maybe even a little extra to ease minds in the way of progress - then this would be great.
I think getting at these ships, at such a fundamental level is paramount if proper balancing and even new ship developement can realistically be expected.
My only point in all of this is BS5
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having to spend an entire month in order to move into caps is a MAJOR deterrent. People - the idiot masses at least, would flock to and flood. Unless we want to work against sanity and move in the direction the players and devs want as far as having more varied fleets then please, leave the BS5 req. alone!!!
Put these fires out quick, I strongly suggest getting input from the CSM to put together a good reimbursement. Once people can relax then true discourse on the actual change can take place. |
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Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:47:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Initial thoughts are that we'll see even fewer Command Ships being used.
If the time to train figures are accurate then its effectively another "screw you" to a long-suffering ship class. I think you'd have to nerf T3 command boosts into the ground to make this even remotely fair.
It looks like a very very brave decision you're taking on this, might make things better but is more than likely just to lose you existing customers, which you really cannot afford to do as your retention rate for new players is still absymal.
You're obviously going to do it regardless of feedback so may as well get things "set in stone" ASAP so people can decide whether they can be bothered training up stuff again which they can already use now. Might just be the straw which breaks this particular "camel's back"...... |

VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:49:00 -
[1062] - Quote
I am seriosuly worried when I see you spend so much time on such unimportant changes.
Whole list of improvmenets you guys made last year is just great, but this sounds.... weird.
Please switch focus. http://vipares.griefwatch.net |

Katrina Smit
FSPalm
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:53:00 -
[1063] - Quote
About BS at 4 for Capitals, but for what i train BS at 5 aorun 1month 10 days? for what i need this skill on capital pilot who never fly on any ships smaller Capitals.
Do You have plan about reimbush this ? |

Jango Kado
epTa Team Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:58:00 -
[1064] - Quote
When we will get skiils such as Amarr Interceptor and other cool racial stuff? |

Bent Barrel
43
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:00:00 -
[1065] - Quote
Nice can of worms you opened there CCP :-) This will be intersting. Luckily I am not going past frigates, so no problem for me.
I am quite interested in what will happen. I have the destroyer skillbook but not injected. Also I have Gallente cruiser 4. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5424
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:05:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Othran wrote:Initial thoughts are that we'll see even fewer Command Ships being used.
If the time to train figures are accurate then its effectively another "screw you" to a long-suffering ship class. I think you'd have to nerf T3 command boosts into the ground to make this even remotely fair. Command Ships should be easier to train for after this change. You no longer have to train for HACs and Logis; that alone shaves off several million SP. By the sound of it, you also don't have to train Cruiser V (since Racial BC V will replace it in the prereq list), and that's another million SP saved compared to now. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:08:00 -
[1067] - Quote
Interesting changes. I hope this brings new uses to the outdated ships that lost out du to the tier system. |

Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
231
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:09:00 -
[1068] - Quote
I was wondering when someone would put his hand into this particular snake pit.
I tentatively approve of the suggested changes, just make sure that, as you already mentioned that you will, I will be able to keep flying the ships I can now. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |

Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:15:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Here's an important question:
Does removing ship tiers also affect production/research cost? Since higher tiers cost more to produce, does the removal of tiers mean that the ships respective production/mineral/research costs will be equalized aswell? |

knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
52
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:22:00 -
[1070] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:
- New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
- We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.
MOAR STUFF HERE FOLKS (skills, confusing picture, apology to CSM).
Narrowly avoids a 50 page rage thread at CCP. As long as you stick to this CCP, I approve. If you fail and one day I login and cannot fly a ship I can currently fly you'll have more than statues being fired at ;).
Please keep it high to get into capitals though, to many as it is when you should encourage people to fly smaller sized ships and more balanced fleets. |
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Leana Storm
Domination. NEM3SIS.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:26:00 -
[1071] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.
Please put that in the devblog. in bold. in at least 5 diffrent places. and one extra large in red, under the headline. |

Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:27:00 -
[1072] - Quote
I approve! Although I bet it has been said before this makes the BS5 really useless for capital pilots, it would be nice if we were allowed to put those skillpoints to better use elsewhere, my two cents.... |

RavenNyx
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:29:00 -
[1073] - Quote
this:
Quote:You'll remove the "Battlecruiser" skill and replace it with "[RACE] Battlecruiser" skills. That's great... You did stop to include stuff like f.ex. "Angel Cruiser" or "Sansha Carrier" too, right? I mean, to avoid MAJOR inconsistencies in your idea, already at birth?
this:
Quote:You insist on calling vessels in EvE online "ships", and I can only conclude that the above is the image you're trying to put in my head. And that's good. It gives everybody an idea of what the ship is, what it's role is, how it's armed and if it'll handle like a brick or a feather. This is information players derive from the ship category name alone, based on pictures, movies, history lessons in school or even toys... Please stay true to your original course, or make the descision to re-name/-design the entire classification scheme...
and this:
Quote:And the skillpoint idea - what a lovely thought... I trust that you'll reimburse all my training-time on medium lasers, and the time I spent training for medium hybrids too, right? I mean, I trained medium hybrids to fly the Brutix and the Ferox and medium lasers to fly the Harbinger, and if I can no longer fly those ships, and I trained those supplementary skills for those ships.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=899625#post899625
I do hope these points will be addressed at some point, as I cannot see how the idea, as-is, can be justified otherwise. |

Gravecall
Nordic Innovations BLACK-MARK
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:29:00 -
[1074] - Quote
So does this mean that the Rokh will be getting a large defense buff/Raven getting a defense nerf? According to your new classes the Raven should only have an average defense whereas the Rokh should have a great one. At the moment the Raven is the mission-runners choice because it can pack almost as much damage as the Rokh while having way better defense. Heck you could probably even resolve the issue without touching defense buffs by going after the cap generation so the Rokh can field a better active shield tank than the Raven inspite of the cap drain from it's rails. |

Terazul
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:31:00 -
[1075] - Quote
People sure are up in arms about the whole cross-training thing.
I wonder why nobody has argued in favor of doing things the other way around? Removing racial ship skills altogether and just having "frigate", "cruiser", "battleship", etc., since that would massively decrease the required training time to be able to pilot all the races' ship variations...
Me, I really don't give a toss. I'm more hoping that ship classes other than battlecruiser actually become worth piloting in PvP. For too long, BCs have been the dominant ship class in EVE simply due to their insane cost-effectiveness. Isn't it time for a bit of change?
I mean, really, if cruisers become worth piloting over BCs, why would you even care about training BC skill again? But whatever, I see a lot of people have lots of trouble thinking laterally... |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5424
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:35:00 -
[1076] - Quote
RavenNyx wrote:You'll remove the "Battlecruiser" skill and replace it with "[RACE] Battlecruiser" skills. That's great... You did stop to include stuff like f.ex. "Angel Cruiser" or "Sansha Carrier" too, right? I mean, to avoid MAJOR inconsistencies in your idea, already at birth? What's inconsistent about it?
We already have racial cruiser skills GÇö 2+ù racial cruiser = pirate cruiser. So why would they have to suddenly introduce [pirate] cruiser skills all of a sudden?
Quote:And the skillpoint idea - what a lovely thought... I trust that you'll reimburse all my training-time on medium lasers, and the time I spent training for medium hybrids too, right? Why would they? You'll still be able to use those skills (and ships). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:39:00 -
[1077] - Quote
I still haven't heard a good reason for this BC skill change. Certainly not one good enough to justify it. Splitting one ship skill into four different ones is a very dramatic change. It needs to be motivated by a very good reason, not "oh, we think it'd be more consistent". |

tasman devil
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys HUN Reloaded
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:42:00 -
[1078] - Quote
I - for one - am cheering for this!
The same as with the name-change. Reduce illogical stuff and not to keep it just because "It was there from the get go" is a good approach.
Just keep it simple, and please-pretty please do NOT stretch this out to infinity!! Roll it in in ONE iteration! Do not say "we will iterate on it later". It is just like me doing the laundry: I've put the stuff in the washing machine and will iterate on it later (ie. turn on the damn machine)so basically **** got done but I am still short of clean clothes...
|

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
445
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:42:00 -
[1079] - Quote
I'm not too fond of the dumbing down I see behind making ship progression more linear, and making capitals easier to get into. I approve of the tiericide, and am pretty impartial about splitting the skills into racial variants, as long as the reimbursement works out as described. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Noran Talidan
Unity College
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:45:00 -
[1080] - Quote
I like this idea, really it adds much needed consistancy!
My only worry is how much is this role system going to effect the use of ships that I can already fly... (IE Armageddon, Apoc, etc) are my fitting's and play style going to have to change after 8 years to compensate? |
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