But if its role is to give newbies a chance to help posrep/mine from with good bonuses, and not go in fleets, thats not a bad thing.

They fill the very important role of a bridge to mining hulls, and the less important role of helping with gruntwork. Why should the vets in logis/carriers carry all the load?

I'm more worried about more useless hulls, like the Celestis. Might not see many ospreys, or Bellicoses, but when is the last time you saw anyone at all in a Celestis, or a Breacher?

Finally, looked at from the real world, I hardly believe that Navy Captains have to train Frigates--> Destroyers --> Cruisers --> Battlecruisers --> Battleships. My grandfather was the captain of a cruiser, never heard any word of him even on a frigate, let alone a destroyer.

The whole point of the skill changes, and the end of the Tier system, is to rectify the problem of obsolete hulls in the cruiser line (among others)... AND to make it far easier to introduce new varients of hulls that they would have liked to have done in the past but could not.

There have been literally dozens of excellent proposals for new, unique, useful Destroyer hulls made over the years... Point Defense Destroyers, Counter Covert Ops Destoyers, Heavy Bombers, Ninja Salvaging Craft to name a very few. The old system made their introduction problematic, the new system makes their serious consideration realistic... and at the same time addressess the core issues that make a great many existing ships obsolete.

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"Therefore newbs will have it easier"

There have been literally dozens of excellent proposals for new, unique, useful Destroyer hulls made over the years... Point Defense Destroyers, Counter Covert Ops Destoyers, Heavy Bombers, Ninja Salvaging Craft to name a very few. The old system made their introduction problematic, the new system makes their serious consideration realistic... and at the same time addressess the core issues that make a great many existing ships obsolete.

You don't need to mess with the skill tree to rectify obsolete hulls in the cruiser line. You just have to redesign their stats and bonuses. As with any ship the more levels in that ship skill the better you are at the role the ship has.

Certainly all the roles you mentioned for "new" destroyers could be assigned to the worthless cruisers and frigs we presently have in the game. No need for new destroyers.

dont like the changes, why you guys fix things which arent broken instead of focusing on real broken aspects of the game?!?!
Dumbing down the game is only brings short term success.

dont like the changes, why you guys fix things which arent broken instead of focusing on real broken aspects of the game?!?!
Dumbing down the game is only brings short term success.

You really need to go back and read the dev posts describing the problems inherent with the current system. More importantly you need to understand them.

Additionally they already have plans for the current obsolete hulls in game, allowing them to seriously consider (for the first time) the frequently asked for inclusion of some new Destroyer variants.

You may feel that new destoyer hulls are not wanted or needed, but most of the EVE community disagree's with you... and has elaborated on why countless times.

The Dev responses in this thread have very completely spelled out why these changes are being considered, and their reasoning is sound. You would probably be better served promoting your idea's of how best to impliment them rather than arguing a patently lost cause.

Help me understand. Why would adding new destroyers into the current system be problematic?
Destroyers 5 + Cloaking 4 + Missile Bombardment 4 = Heavy Bomber 1
Destroyers 5 + Assault Ship 5 = Medium Assault Ship 1
Interdictor 5 + Propulsion Jamming 5 + Graviton Physics 5 = INTERDICTION SPHERE LAUNCHER II (with new anti-cloak bubble)

Doesn't seem that difficult to me, unless there's something I'm not understanding.

...Dumbing down the game.

Holy dogshit... are you one of those dudes who goes around doing everything in threes?

To put it simply this allows 1 skill to open the door to WAY too many different hulls variants.

The goal is to reward specialization and to make cross training at least slightly more challenging. Having one skill (Destoyers) open the door to a huge number of hulls is extremely counter productive from a game design point of view.

One way could be adding more destroyer hulls, if we can find a role for them.

Reducing the reqs for command ships by removing (AF 4 + HAC 4, or Logistics 4) and cruiser 5 , and removing BS 5 from flying Carrier or Dread, these are major dumbing down of the game

Yes, your polling data surely backs up your claim that "most of the EVE community" agrees with you. And, of course this question should be determined by majority vote anyway whether true or not.

Also, got no problem reading, budd, so you can shove that argument back where it came.

edit- oh and the just shut up and fall in line with the powers that be argument is a gem

Racial destroyer and racial BC is not the most objectionable part of the blog. That increases training reqs per ship. Fine.

Reducing the reqs for command ships by removing (AF 4 + HAC 4, or Logistics 4) and frig 5 + cruiser 5 , and removing BS 5 from flying Carrier or Dread, these are major dumbing down of the game and exacerbate the supercaptital proliferation problem. That is poor game design, at least as far as what EVE has been. So many changes have been dumbing down the game (removal of learning skills, etc) and these two changes would add to it.

This would imply you already "polluted" it with another race of Cruiser 4 it seems. So nbd

As I read this thread further, this is my prediction on what shall happen.

CCP will refund the skill points for the Battlecruiser and / or Destroyer skill(s) or allow a player to convert them into specific racial type. They may grant you one or more of the racial varients in skill books too while leaving the basic version of the skill "locked" in your character. The players will have a grace period to learn the other racial varient skill books (if desired) before CCP alters the requirements for the various ships. Afterwards, the players will be allowed to train (or trade in skill points) to change the basic version into a racial type.

As myself as an example, I have both skills at level 5 while remaining basically a "pure" Minmatar pilot. If CCP decides to grant me level 5 in all racial varieties, suddenly I do not have the lower ships skills to actually utilize these new skills (frigate or cruiser). Should I be punished for not training the other three races? Should I lose out on ~free~ skill points because another pilot could use the skills across multiple races and gets them granted while I will not? Or everyone gets an even number but has the option to place them anywhere? So the multiple raced pilot has to spend them on four types while I can spend mine on but one type and now ~free~ skills to spend elsewhere?

So yes, the blog does state that nobody will be hurt by this change. But I have a feeling this stance will be altered to allow time to pass for training purposes so those that want one or two or three or four types will have the time while others can train elsewhere. In the end, everyone still has the same number of skill points.

Just my thoughts at the moment.

What are you on about?

My point for those who missed it:

If i have caldari frig 5 - caldari cruiser 5 - battelcruiser 5 and no other races trained (for rp reasons) i would be a little annoyed that afterwards it would go caldari frig 5 - caldari cruiser 5- caldari battelcruiser 5 / amarr battelcruiser 5 / gallente battelcruiser 5 / minamtar battelcruiser 5




if they then have to add in the racial frig / cruiser then it's even worse.

CCP please consider reimbursement of sp rather than shoving other racial bc 5 for those who dont need or want it. Better yet don't 'fix' the skill tree.

Should the skill destroyers (for example) be devolved into 4 racial destroyer skills, and those that have the skill already then get all 4 racials at the same level, which seems to be the only appropriate way to handle this, have they considered that they will also likely be increasing clone costs for those characters?
Especially if they are going to do this for:

destroyers, battlecruisers, interdictors, heavy interdictors, assault ships, heavy assault ships, marauders and black ops
(did i miss any generic ship skills?)

as would only be proper in creating a new intuitive ship skill set under the terms they set forth in dev blog.

Tell you what, you come up with a few threads devoted to "For gods sake, we don't want any new ships", and I'll take a few seconds to come up with dozens of threads asking for new ships and capabilities.

I didn't say you had a problem with reading, I am saying you seem to be having trouble understanding the logic underlying what you have read.

You might consider that a good idea, whether it comes from the "powers that be" or from the man on the street, is still a good idea.

The new skill system would make it much quicker, meaningful, and streamlined to specialize in a particular type of ship (including T2 varients)... while making it slightly more time consuming (in some cases) to cross train.

It also acts to enable sensible expansions to existing hull classes, and dove tails nicely with the rebalancing of existing hulls.

I don't really see much to argue about there, but to each his own.

It smartens the game up by giving you more options, more choices, more ways to optimise and (consequently) more ways of making bad choices that give you less bang for the buck. By removing those prereqs, you are no longer given a single path that everyone has to follow, but rather let people mix and match to suit their perceived needsGǪ and then it's up to them to figure out what those needs actually are. It smartens the game up by allowing for far more concentration and specialisation, and thus further removing the meaning (and interpretation) of character age and the perennially meaningless SP count.

More choices = smarter.
Fewer choices and more railroading = dumber.

This change creates the former by removing the latter (and that's without even going into how it's making the game conceptually smarter by removing illogical and inconsistent prereqs that serve absolutely no purpose for, and have zero relation to the skills and ships they open up).

Now cut all skill training times by 50% and it will be perfect.