| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Proto Tron
Acerbus Vindictum
   |
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:08:00 -
[1]
Yet another thread to humbly ask CCP to remove the advanced learning skills from EVE.
Why make the new players spend a month learning filler skills? Is that CCP's way to recoup the free 1/2 month?
Increase the inherent (to start with) attributes upon character creation and allow folks to tweak it with the regular learning with skills later.
url=http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0707/prototron.jpg |
Anonymous Dominance
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:27:00 -
[2]
This thread fails
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 -
[3]
Agree. And...
 Originally by: Proto Tron
Why make the new players spend a month learning filler skills?
= source of failure.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Estel Arador
AFK
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Proto Tron
Why make the new players spend a month learning filler skills?
Why make another crap thread about this?
Skills Explained |
Tie Reen
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:42:00 -
[5]
Bump i completely agree. im new to the game and i still havent gotten every of the filler skills trained yet.
|
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:57:00 -
[6]
My Point of View: More Learning Skills!!! 
I used the first 4 weaks only Frigs and got a solid 4.7 M in Learnings, and yes it was fun. 
Eve is about choice, not about one size fits all. 
----------------------
Nerf Lasers!
Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit.
Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage.
O wait... they allready did... =( |
z0de
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:29:00 -
[7]
They are an annoying time sink encouraging the use of alts. I don't like them but don't see them going.
|
Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights
The Cool Kids Club
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:01:00 -
[8]
give everyone a +10 to each attribute, trash the learning skills, call it a day.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: z0de
They are an annoying time sink encouraging the use of alts. I don't like them but don't see them going.
DIScouraging the use of alts, you mean ?
Because if they're an ANNOYING timesink, why would you want MORE of it, on each account the same ?
You make no sense.
Also, L4 basics + L3 advanceds + L1 cybernetics for plus-3 implants can take less than one week.
IF you chose to train it further, it's your choice.
But claiming it's mandatory is FREAKING STUPID.
Why don't you complain about having to train Frigate/Cruiser/Destroyer/Battlecruiser/Battleship to L5 before using T2 ships ? Or L5 in the basic weapons (or in case of turrets, all weapons below too) just to get T2 gear ?
It's even MORE of a timesink.
People who advocate the removal of the learning skills in the current form are clueless.
You might just as well advocate the removal of ALL skill prerequisites, and have everybody use everything from character creation.
1|2|3|4|5 |
b1zz
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 05:36:00 -
[10]
Learning skills are mandatory (up to a point) if you're planning to play for, say, 1 year +. They are an annoying time sink, even more so because you need to get them out of the way as soon as possible to start accumulating the time gain. But they shouldn't be removed, otherwise we might as well remove the need to train all the other mandatory skills like Navigation for example. If you're not planning on playing for more than a year then you would have an advantage over the long term player for the time you play also.
Anyone planning on playing long term who hasn't started their learning will say get rid of them (OP) and often do. Players who have completed them will tell those people to go jump.
Removing them just dumbs down the game. They're a decision all players have to make.
|
Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp
Carpe Universitas
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 07:18:00 -
[11]
Wrong forum, and if you'd actually read up a bit you'd know that CCP has been aching to do this but can't for various reasons.
|
Ryuga VonRhaiden
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Proto Tron
Yet another thread to humbly ask CCP to remove the advanced learning skills from EVE.
Why make the new players spend a month learning filler skills? Is that CCP's way to recoup the free 1/2 month?
Increase the inherent (to start with) attributes upon character creation and allow folks to tweak it with the regular learning with skills later.
don't like 'em? just don't train 'em... there are more than 350 skills to choose from :D
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
Admiral Madbull
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:15:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Admiral Madbull on 23/05/2008 10:20:15
CCP really dont like learning skills either, they have mentioned in several dev blogs that they made a big misstake introducing them to game at all, but as things are now its impossible to take them off game.
And i agree with this, its dumb that you have to train them to get ahead, but at the same time, if they would not exist things would go alot slower to train.
And taking them away giving everyone +10 isnt either a good option, since people have spent the time training them.
Guess there will always be someone complaining on this issue nomatter what happens.
My 2 cents: leave them as they are.
ps: to all new players, they did lower the pre-requisit for advanced learning skills, before you hade to train basic to lv5 to start training adv. now its lv4 only, so not a big deal. AND as everything in eve ITS NOT MANDATORY
|
CrayC
CrayC Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: b1zz
Learning skills are mandatory if you're planning to play for, say, 1 year +.
There are NO mandatory skills in EVE. Because:
Originally by: b1zz
They're a decision all players have to make.
And that goes for every other skill not given at creation...
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: b1zz
Learning skills are mandatory if you're planning to play for, say, 1 year +.
It's like saying picking Achura Stargazer/Monk or training Cybernetics 5 and plugging in +5 implants is mandatory too.
No, it's NOT mandatory. It's a CHOICE.
Yes, you WILL get slightly less SP in the long run, but you WILL be behind a good while if you "finish" them first.
The average player age is hardly over 9 months... since the payoff time for all L5 basics is comparable in length, and the advanced learning skills (if trained to L5) barely now start to pay off for those that trained them when they first came out... it's downright criminally negligent to even SUGGEST to a new player that they might be MADATORY to the max.
It's a simple choice between what you need NOW, what you need SOON, and what your end goal is.
If you can't decide for yourself, or you can only think of the very, very long run... then have the freaking curtesy to not complain about it, since, well, you're supposedly thinking far ahead, right ?
Yes, NOT training L3 basics almost ASAP is a bad idea, since the payoff time is measured in days.
Yes, NOT training L4 basics and L3 advanced as soon as you can afford them is also a bad idea, since the payoff time is measured in weeks.
But when you hit payoff times measured in trimesters, the YEARS... start thinking before you proceed.
If you are unable to think about it and make a choice between immediate needs and future plans... your loss.
1|2|3|4|5 |
b1zz
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
MADATORY to the max.
Ease up on the caps Akita lol. Did I say 'to the max'. I didn't think a detailed mathematical analysis was needed, or just couldn't be arsed to be as specific as 5/4 with +4 implants if playing + 1 year.
And Akita, there are other reasons to max Learning. Some people aren't interested in knowing that the benefit won't pay off for three years, they just want everything to max so whenever they train they know they will gain a skill in the quickest time possible after they've made the decision to train.
If you guys don't think Learning is mandatory for + 1 year players then good luck to you.
|
Proto Tron
Acerbus Vindictum
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:19:00 -
[17]
Clarification:
I am not asking for +10 to all new characters. I am asking for +5.
In conjunction with above, I am asking to remove advanced skills from the game completely.
I am vaguely aware of the CCP's programming difficulties in doing so and am aware of their track record with deep system changes.
On the question of choice:
This is WAAAAY beyond this discussion. But if a new player reads some guides and does minimal optimization with a time horizon of over one year, the OPTIMAL course of learning is clear. Yes, some of you are right, some will make a choice of having a suboptimal toons, but with understanding that in the future they will still have to train those skills.
Navigation, contrary to popular belief, is NOT a required, aka foundational, skill.
Also, I would gather that CCP is looking to retain its customers without much expensive churn. Therefore, they should make it easier for their customers feel that they would be successful in a long EVE term.
url=http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0707/prototron.jpg |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:36:00 -
[18]
You might as well request that all characters start with all learning skills at L4, plus L3 Science, L1 Cybernetics and a full set of +3 implants plugged in.
There you go, not +5, not +10, but actually +11.88 to all attributes on top of the +0.624 to average base attribute value for a grand total of +12.504 on average to each attribute compared to how things were about a year and a half ago.
Or, hell, why not, L5 in both basic and advanced for the particular attributes pertinent to your career, so a +12.504 on average for three attributes but a +14.664 to two of your chosen attributes.
How's that ?
Sounds ridiculous ?
Not more than what YOU're asking for, TBQFH.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Athamai
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Proto Tron
Yet another thread to humbly ask CCP to remove the advanced learning skills from EVE.
Why make the new players spend a month learning filler skills? Is that CCP's way to recoup the free 1/2 month?
Increase the inherent (to start with) attributes upon character creation and allow folks to tweak it with the regular learning with skills later.
Eve like many things has choices between long term benefit and 'quick fix'. I see nothing wrong with this.. New people are not forced to do advanced learning skills but it's the best way to maximize for the long term.
|
Euriti
Caritas.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Euriti on 23/05/2008 16:55:44
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: z0de
Also, L4 basics + L3 advanceds + L1 cybernetics for plus-3 implants can take less than one week.
This is what I have with the exception of perc which is 5/4. Learning is at 5.
No more is really needed if you wanna get started properly, who cares if you loose half a million SP in the first year or so, it's about having fun.
|
b1zz
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 17:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Proto Tron
Clarification:
I am not asking for +10 to all new characters. I am asking for +5.
In conjunction with above, I am asking to remove advanced skills from the game completely.
So you've been playing for 1.5 years and, let me guess, you haven't invested in Learning up 'till now? Well, you better get to it because you're a bit behind. Every second counts.
|
Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:11:00 -
[22]
Please can someone link/explain why it is 'impossible' to remove learning skills. This is my take. I like the idea of whoever mentioned remove the learning skills and give everyone +10 to all attributes. I personally have gotten all basic to 4 all advanced to 4 and learning to 5. My take? As a new person "Well, If I want to be efficient a year from now and make this second forward at its best I have to spend this amount of time getting these skills up." To a new player the instant though it *lame*. And it is. It would give new users the ability to spend a million+ SP's in some other skills and dive into the action a little quicker. So If tomorrow they did change it, would I be mad since I spent the time to skill my learning up? No. Besides if you trained any advanced skill to 5 then your probably also have a minor/mild case of OCD.
|
Guttripper
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:31:00 -
[23]
A better idea - double the training time for all skills...
...there are too many pilots flying big ships and the game is only five years old. 
|
z0de
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 03:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: z0de on 24/05/2008 03:12:34
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: z0de
They are an annoying time sink encouraging the use of alts. I don't like them but don't see them going.
DIScouraging the use of alts, you mean ?
Because if they're an ANNOYING timesink, why would you want MORE of it, on each account the same ?
You make no sense.
Because you can have fun on your main while an alt spends 2months doing nothing but learning skills.
Originally by: Akita T
Also, L4 basics + L3 advanceds + L1 cybernetics for plus-3 implants can take less than one week.
IF you chose to train it further, it's your choice.
But claiming it's mandatory is FREAKING STUPID.
Please show where I said they were mandatory, its just more efficacy to have them if you plan on playing for any length of time and have a goal leading to alts, power level one guy in a hanger with +5's while you have fun on the main.
Originally by: Akita T
Why don't you complain about having to train Frigate/Cruiser/Destroyer/Battlecruiser/Battleship to L5 before using T2 ships ? Or L5 in the basic weapons (or in case of turrets, all weapons below too) just to get T2 gear ?
It's even MORE of a timesink.
Because it makes sense that you should be highly skilled in a ship type to fly the advanced versions.
Originally by: Akita T
People who advocate the removal of the learning skills in the current form are clueless.
You might just as well advocate the removal of ALL skill prerequisites, and have everybody use everything from character creation.
Because that's exactly the same thing isn't it.
|
b1zz
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 03:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Highwind Cid
Please can someone link/explain why it is 'impossible' to remove learning skills. This is my take. I like the idea of whoever mentioned remove the learning skills and give everyone +10 to all attributes. I personally have gotten all basic to 4 all advanced to 4 and learning to 5. My take? As a new person "Well, If I want to be efficient a year from now and make this second forward at its best I have to spend this amount of time getting these skills up." To a new player the instant though it *lame*. And it is. It would give new users the ability to spend a million+ SP's in some other skills and dive into the action a little quicker. So If tomorrow they did change it, would I be mad since I spent the time to skill my learning up? No. Besides if you trained any advanced skill to 5 then your probably also have a minor/mild case of OCD.
That's right, they will think 'lame', and they will decide not to train their learning and get right into the action. These people want their cake now, and in a years time they will come into the forum and post a thread called 'get rid of the learning skills' because they can't stand that their friends are overtaking them in the SP count.
I would be mad if they removed them. They can compensate me with equivalent SP in other areas but they can't compensate what I could have been doing in the time I was training Learning skills.
The other problem is it would put all strategic long term decisions on shaky ground, and it is one of the unique features of this game that you can plan a long way ahead. The first thing I would be thinking if they removed them is, are any of my other long term strategic decisions safe anymore and am I willing to risk it? I don't think CCP want to ****-off the players who have invested in Learning skills because they're the people who have basically confirmed their participation for 2 years+.
Is it really such a burden to train to 5/4. If you can't wait just train 5/4 in Intelligence and Perception, a couple of weeks tops, and you'd be half way there. Make your decision and stick with it and stop coming in here and whining about it after the fact .
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 04:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/05/2008 04:19:26
Originally by: z0de
Originally by: Akita T
People who advocate the removal of the learning skills in the current form are clueless.
You might just as well advocate the removal of ALL skill prerequisites, and have everybody use everything from character creation.
Because that's exactly the same thing isn't it.
Yes, it is.
According to people arguing against learning skills anyway: they're both TIME-SINKS.
Heck, for that matter, learning skills are even more justifiable, since they do pay off in the long run, leaving you with nothing but profit later on... whereas a lot of other "L5 prerequisite" skills are completely and utterly unnecessary (while others are merely desirable, but not necessary at all).
So, you don't mind having utterly useless time-sinks, but if there's an USEFUL time-sink in there, it must surely go away ?
What's your logic in that ?
1|2|3|4|5 |
z0de
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 04:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: z0de on 24/05/2008 04:40:25
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: z0de
Because that's exactly the same thing isn't it.
Yes, it is.
According to people arguing against learning skills anyway: they're both TIME-SINKS.
Heck, for that matter, learning skills are even more justifiable, since they do pay off in the long run, leaving you with nothing but profit later on... whereas a lot of other "L5 prerequisite" skills are completely and utterly unnecessary (while others are merely desirable, but not necessary at all).
So, you don't mind having utterly useless time-sinks, but if there's an USEFUL time-sink in there, it must surely go away ?
What's your logic in that ?
My logic is that all other skills give a benefit to your abilities in game as a direct result of you investing time in them. Learning skills do not improve your ingame abilities they increase how quick you get ingame abilities but the skill on its own does nothing.
|
Slade Hoo
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 04:54:00 -
[28]
*bump*
|
Bael Thazor
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 04:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: z0de
Edited by: z0de on 24/05/2008 04:40:25
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: z0de
Because that's exactly the same thing isn't it.
Yes, it is.
According to people arguing against learning skills anyway: they're both TIME-SINKS.
Heck, for that matter, learning skills are even more justifiable, since they do pay off in the long run, leaving you with nothing but profit later on... whereas a lot of other "L5 prerequisite" skills are completely and utterly unnecessary (while others are merely desirable, but not necessary at all).
So, you don't mind having utterly useless time-sinks, but if there's an USEFUL time-sink in there, it must surely go away ?
What's your logic in that ?
My logic is that all other skills give a benefit to your abilities in game as a direct result of you investing time in them. Learning skills do not improve your ingame abilities <b>they increase how quick you get ingame abilities but the skill on its own does nothing. </b>
So your ability to learn other abilities is not an ability...
|
Hannibal AntePorta
Finis Lumen
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:04:00 -
[30]
What's the problem with scrapping the learning skills and giving everyone +10?
Okay so some people already trained them, they lose nothing. The only reason this isn't a good idea is if established players want the new players to suffer the same crap they did.
Wanting someone to have the same negative experience just because you did is not a good reason to keep bad game mechanics. What is unbalancing and unfair about this other than the percieved slight? I'm sure CCP would use a time machine to right that wrong if they could--suck it up, you're already past the bad and into the good, others aren't so lucky.
k |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |