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Pazma
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Posted - 2004.05.05 05:01:00 -
[1]
I can do level 2 agent kill missions in my sleep in a frigate. People tell me that I need a battleship for level 3 kill missions. Er? Does this seem like a HUGE jump? Am I missing something?
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2004.05.05 05:11:00 -
[2]
you only need a battleship if your a poor cruiser pilot. they are alot easier in a battleship or with a wing mate though. ALOT easier. its about the same jump from L1 to L2. _______________________________________________
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Seradhin
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Posted - 2004.05.05 05:46:00 -
[3]
Most lvl3 kill missions are not a problem in a cruiser, I use one myself, admittedly I have a fair amount of gunnery,engineering etc skills.
As long as you used ranged ammo, ie somewhere around 40-50km and keep that distance from the NPCs you can do the majority without a problem.
Probably one of the few exceptions to this is the rogue slaver mission when the NPCs include 1 or 2 guristas infernos, these fire cataclysm cruise so being at range you still take a lot of damage. Lost 2 moas on this yesterday, today when given it I finally bought tactical shield manipulation and fitted 2 thermal hardeners, I survived this time although I did have to warp out after killing the first of the pair to let shields/cap recharge and repair my armor etc. Bit more playing with configs for me next time, maybe a cap power relay so I can keep the shield boost going longer.
So anyway, with the possible exception of that mission they are doable in a cruiser without to many probs as long as you are patient and keep a decent distance away.
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Petr Sorokin
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Posted - 2004.05.05 06:04:00 -
[4]
Many of the level 3 missions are doable in a missile equipped frigate (kestrel works well ), I even have done quite a few in a Merlin (rails+missile). That being said, there are level 3 missions that are not doable in a Frigate ( well not in a Frigate with my skills anyway ). The Gursitas Infernos for one, the one versus 4 Moas with heavies that can hit you at 61km and a few others where the enemy firepower is probably just too great to handle in a frigate even at extreme ranges.
Missiles are certainly your friend, no way you could get in close and use guns/lasers etc. in a frigate versus 4 cruisers.
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Maidel
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Posted - 2004.05.05 11:45:00 -
[5]
Hmm this comes up ALOT - they are Do-able in a cruiser but they take a damn long time. Amarr have it worst tho - maximum range of a amarr cruiser weapon is about 40km out so it is very difficult to keep away from these ships. Not to mention the mission v 8 heavy missile spewing frigates that can hit at about 50km and take a cruiser to half armour in 1 hit. Your best bet is a battle ship im afraid, even with cruiser weaponry it is much easier (warp in at 15km with 7 heavy beams on an arma tends to work very nicely). Some of the missions are very easy for a cruiser or even and inq- 1 cruiser + 3 frigate missions or the like. But they are about 1/4 missions in my experiance.
'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally' |
VoxDei
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Posted - 2004.05.05 12:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: VoxDei on 05/05/2004 12:23:08 NPCs are vulnerable to ECM if you're correctly fitted. You really need a BB to do it though, depending on the NPC - a lot of them have strength 15 in everything. Obviously this is no good if you're up against a lot of bad guys, but if you're just being asked to kill one large one (or one large one with a few small escorts) it's a viable tactic.
EDIT: Note I said ECM - don't try sensor dampeners on them, you'll get spanked.
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Incub
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:39:00 -
[7]
What a load of crap? most lvl3 kill missions are easily doable in a frig, just use missiles and no guns
get a frig with 2 or more launcher hardpoints a sensor booster and heavy missiles... just stay away at 50 km and blow them to pieces.
because you have a frig the agent wont give out missions with tough oppenents like a BS as a foe...
250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's. |
Mangold
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Posted - 2004.05.09 09:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: VoxDei Edited by: VoxDei on 05/05/2004 12:23:08 NPCs are vulnerable to ECM if you're correctly fitted. You really need a BB to do it though, depending on the NPC - a lot of them have strength 15 in everything. Obviously this is no good if you're up against a lot of bad guys, but if you're just being asked to kill one large one (or one large one with a few small escorts) it's a viable tactic.
EDIT: Note I said ECM - don't try sensor dampeners on them, you'll get spanked.
I would say it's the other way around. Sensor dampers work fine, ECM don't.
Picture this: You're up against 1 Merc Commander (85k) and 2 Merc Fighters (5k each).
Fly in at 60 km. Sensor damp that commander, fire missiles at him and keep at 60 km. When he's down you move in close and pick off the Fighters with your guns. This is doable in a cruiser. Note: you'll need sensor boosters to increase your range.
As you said, you'll need a lot of ECM to be able to jam a npc. I would say at least 4 multispectrals. That's to many slots for me.
But, to be fair, I'll try it in a BB anyway to see if you're right.
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Swift
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Posted - 2004.05.09 15:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Swift on 09/05/2004 15:41:43 Picture this: You're up against 1 Merc Commander (85k) and 2 Merc Fighters (5k each).
--- You can do things in multiple ways.. I did a similar mission yesterday ina moa while chatting to corp mates and I didnt even realise the mission was over because of the ease:
MWD, Cap booster, hybrid ammo - tungsten on 4 turrets (38km optimum) and defenders/widowmakers. Go to 38 km of the the commander, set as the distance you wish to keep and start firing.
The commander will start hitting his mwds and closing the gap and you in turn will hit the mwds and the cap booster. Foom, you maintain the distance while pelting him widowmakers and the hyrbids, and im telling you the widows tear him apart. 30 secs, he is dead and you have two 5 k rats going 'oh no'. You will not need to pay for the cap boost ammo in that my collection has always been dropped by previous rats and i have a ton just lyinga round to be used.
Ive recently pushed up my nav skills and engineering skills connected with max cap/cap recharge and really makes the mwd thing even easier now. Many of the tougher rats have mwds and all you need to do is keep away while maintaining cap and your set... the defenders do a great job of keeping away missile loads (there is one mission with 7 rats that spam missiles and ive found a combination of range plus defenders kills most of them dead.. in this case fighting at 40km and shooting down all missiles getting close with defenders).
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--- 'The truth about low sec space is that it reveals humanity - the 'essence' of all the races, in its purest form. A place where Concord no longer polices or protects, 'human nature' thrives in all its distilled destructive self-serving glory. Welcome to hell ladies and gentlemen, welcome to what it really is to be human.'
-Swiftare 'Swift' Sarum. |
Grim
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Posted - 2004.05.10 00:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Grim on 10/05/2004 00:53:25 I've only found one slightly tricky mission (lvl 3) for a cruiser.
Not sure the exact title but u have to kill an 85k caracel and a few other littler ships. I managed it in a caracel but took a fair amount of damage. i wouldn't recommend doing it in a frigate
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2004.05.10 09:53:00 -
[11]
I hate lies...
Well l3 kill missions are easy in BS's... depend on ur setup. L3 kill missions are more chanllenge and funny in cruiser like thorax. But again, u need a good setup. I got some missions vs 5 NPC cruisers, so that make me laugh when i read it's easy in a cruiser.
Doing L3 missions in a kestrel ? You crap...
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Mangold
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Posted - 2004.05.10 10:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Fire Hawk I hate lies...
Well l3 kill missions are easy in BS's... depend on ur setup. L3 kill missions are more chanllenge and funny in cruiser like thorax. But again, u need a good setup. I got some missions vs 5 NPC cruisers, so that make me laugh when i read it's easy in a cruiser.
Doing L3 missions in a kestrel ? You crap...
5 npc cruisers in a lvl 3 mission? You lucky b***d. Altough I've met a 75k rat with 4 escorts (35k), but in my opinion that's one cruiser and 4 frigates. I may be wrong on that, please correct me in that case.
Anyway, I do agree that it's dead easy in a BS and much more fun in a cruiser. As I'm pushing for a implant I'm actually doing most missions in a BS anyway as it's much faster.
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2004.05.10 11:19:00 -
[13]
I do all mine in a Rupture with rarely any problems. The only one which gives me a bit of hassle is the Elana Gazky. She is on top of me (ooerr missus) really quick as I have yet to get off my lazy backside and fit a MWD :). However, she soon pops it too :)
They are great fun in a cruiser and I have yet to miss a bonus. Obviously a bs would be quicker but probably not as enjoyable.
Interesting to see EW works against missions rats as I thought that wasn't the case. Tx for that info
-- Polaris Lumine
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Marcus Khan
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Posted - 2004.05.10 11:28:00 -
[14]
Pazma,
I am yet to find a L3 kill mission that I can not complete with my Rifter and a good bunch of heavy missiles. I just MWD around the targets escaping all their missiles while hitting with mine. For the short lock distance, I orbit at 20km. Occasionally I get hit by the guns, but it's nothing that my armour repairer couldn't handle. It is of course essential to see that you can maintain the MWD operational at all times. Slow down and you're dead.
Good luck and happy hunting.
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Maidel
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Posted - 2004.05.10 11:35:00 -
[15]
couple of points - 35k ships ARE cruisers (in my case 35ks tend to be amarrian auguors)
I do missions, not for fun, but to get money so i can have fun doing other things. Bs are the only way to do this efficently and quickly. Also - ammarians are very short of missile carriers - it has 3 ships that can use them - inq (small frig that can fit 3), arbitrator (small cruiser that can fit 1) and the apoc bs that can fit 2 - but if u have an apoc use lasers cos they are free to fire.
'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally' |
Arbitos
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Posted - 2004.05.10 12:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fire Hawk I hate lies...
Well l3 kill missions are easy in BS's... depend on ur setup. L3 kill missions are more chanllenge and funny in cruiser like thorax. But again, u need a good setup. I got some missions vs 5 NPC cruisers, so that make me laugh when i read it's easy in a cruiser.
Doing L3 missions in a kestrel ? You crap...
I do LVL 3 missions with ease in my Rupture. I look forward to the Damsel missions where you get Schmidt and Elena etc.. but with an MWD even they are really easy!! Tryed without an MWD and not fun!!
I use 3x 720mm 3 x standard named launchers
Tech II sheild booster 10 MWD EM Damage Hardner
Filled up with 4 x Power Diags (Getting ready for the Relay Nerf!) 1x Tech II heat sink
Keeps the Cap high enough to keep using the MWD when needed and the Tech II booster when needed. I don't even bother with defenders just fire EM missles until their sheilds are down and then Havocs while keeping my distance and popping at them with the 720mm.
The missions I've had with 4/5 35K NPC's tend to be the Rogue pirates, if you fly away at over 44K their missiles don't tend to hit you and if they do you have the EM Hardner knocking the DMG down to 75.
I don't confess to be an expert, because I'm not, but I honestly don't have any touble with any of the LvL 3 missions in a Rupure, I do they just to save up money and hopefully get a few decent drops
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VoxDei
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Posted - 2004.05.10 14:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: VoxDei on 10/05/2004 14:48:08
Originally by: Mangold
Originally by: VoxDei Edited by: VoxDei on 05/05/2004 12:23:08 NPCs are vulnerable to ECM if you're correctly fitted. You really need a BB to do it though, depending on the NPC - a lot of them have strength 15 in everything. Obviously this is no good if you're up against a lot of bad guys, but if you're just being asked to kill one large one (or one large one with a few small escorts) it's a viable tactic.
EDIT: Note I said ECM - don't try sensor dampeners on them, you'll get spanked.
I would say it's the other way around. Sensor dampers work fine, ECM don't.
Picture this: You're up against 1 Merc Commander (85k) and 2 Merc Fighters (5k each).
Fly in at 60 km. Sensor damp that commander, fire missiles at him and keep at 60 km. When he's down you move in close and pick off the Fighters with your guns. This is doable in a cruiser. Note: you'll need sensor boosters to increase your range.
As you said, you'll need a lot of ECM to be able to jam a npc. I would say at least 4 multispectrals. That's to many slots for me.
But, to be fair, I'll try it in a BB anyway to see if you're right.
How do the damps work then? I thought that NPCs had targetting ranges that were so huge that damps wouldn't make a difference. Maybe I was wrong.
Anyway, the BB midslot setup I used for missions (before I got my BS) was 1 of each racial ECM and 1 multispectral, with a MWD (or not if I thought I really needed the extra cap). Check the enemies' sensor strength on Eve-DB before going to see whether you need that multispec or not - anything with sensor strength 12 or below you don't need it for, and anything you do need it for you may have to kill quickly because the power drain is horrible. I've never seen an NPC with more than 16 sensor strength, so you'll jam any of them with that setup. Also fit one launcher with defenders and you can do most missions comfortably enough as long as you stay at range.
EDIT: I should say that it's been four months or so since I got a BS and stopped using my BB for missions - the increased numbers of NPCs per mission now may make this tactic much harder to make work.
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Mastik
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Posted - 2004.05.10 14:51:00 -
[18]
I do Lvl 3s in an Omen cruiser all the time. Keep range between 30 and 40k and you should do fine. I am not going to say you wont have a bad outing and get your butt whipped (look out for those Sansha overlords ).
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Faul Eulysaile
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Posted - 2004.05.10 15:11:00 -
[19]
I do lvl 3 mission in a Moa in Amarr region. Havent seen met any rats with cruise missile there so far.
With 3 250mm railgun and a mix of thunderbolt and havoc missile. I can kill most if not all of the named rats pretty easily. If you keep your distance (~55 to 60k) from the smaller rats, you can kite the main guy (75 to 85k) away by pounding him with the 250mm.
MWD makes it easier as well since most cruiser rats have tends to web you once they catch up.
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2004.05.10 18:27:00 -
[20]
All of the missions are pretty easy in a Moa.
I mount
2 carbine 250 1 scout 250 1 compressed coil 250 1 named small launcher 1 named medium launcher 1 named EM shield hardener 1 named thermal hardener 1 named medium shield booster 2 reactor boosters (10% PW each) Gyro stabilizer (got a tech 2 mmm +11% rate of fire) Overdrive/named small armor repairer.
I've got gunnery 4 Medium hybrid 3 motion tracking 2 or 3 surgical strike 2 burst fire 2 or 3 and the one that increases range at 3
I have small problems against 2 silencers mainly because of how fast they close on me.. I end up taking one on at under 10km range :(.
My biggest problem running missions is aunenen is interdicted by pc pirates.
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Mogambo
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Posted - 2004.05.12 07:47:00 -
[21]
What does MWD stand for as referred to in these posts?
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Sephiroth Repent
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Posted - 2004.05.12 12:01:00 -
[22]
mwd stands for micro warp drive. they boost speed dramatically of your ship. on my maller i fit 1x 100mn one with a 100mn afterburner and it gives me 5km/s :) Your Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I perfectly strikes Sansha's Tyrant, wrecking for 1589.6 damage. Muhahahaha |
Maidel
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Posted - 2004.05.12 12:17:00 -
[23]
nice to see with the missile changes all the ppl that use kestral to do lvl 3 missions will have to rethink their strategy.
'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally' |
Ky Vatta
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Posted - 2004.05.12 15:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maidel nice to see with the missile changes all the ppl that use kestral to do lvl 3 missions will have to rethink their strategy.
If I read the new missile changes right, Frigates can no longer use Heavy Missiles, and Cruiser cannot use Cruise Missiles......then all L3 Combat missions will end up being Battleship-only, which shows that they(CCP) haven`t thought it through very well, have they??? Corp Chief Engineer |
Captin Zoom
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Posted - 2004.05.13 11:58:00 -
[25]
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Captin Zoom
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Posted - 2004.05.13 12:01:00 -
[26]
All level 3 missions are aesy in a blackbird you dont cruise have done them all in a blackbird with heavy (widowmaker) just fit 2 hardeners for the slave ship mission when you are spammed by cruise missiles from 2 infernos. And with a moa you dont even nead missiles. Havent fired a single cruise on an agent mission and i have done like 400-500 kill level 3 missions standing 15+
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Cissy
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:22:00 -
[27]
If I read the new missile changes right, Frigates can no longer use Heavy Missiles, and Cruiser cannot use Cruise Missiles......then all L3 Combat missions will end up being Battleship-only, which shows that they(CCP) haven`t thought it through very well, have they???
i haven never used any missiles whatsoever and i have done numerous of l3 kill missions..so it just whining...im no expert whasoever and im driving a thorax at, and yes i sometime gets beaten but that is very rare.....never done the forum thingy befor so i dont know if everything is where is supose to be ____________________________________________ your logic is flawed, therfor you are flawd |
VoxDei
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Posted - 2004.05.13 15:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Captin Zoom standing 15+
That seems... unlikely.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:14:00 -
[29]
Thorax can easaly do all missions, doesnt have any missle points... Usually you dont even need cm's when using other ships as well. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Swift
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:23:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Swift on 13/05/2004 17:24:50 If I read the new missile changes right, Frigates can no longer use Heavy Missiles, and Cruiser cannot use Cruise Missiles......then all L3 Combat missions will end up being Battleship-only, which shows that they(CCP) haven`t thought it through very well, have they??? --
I use a moa, widowmakers (heavy), defenders, hybrids (tungsten) and a mwd (see my recent post first page) and I have no issues with any missions. I have poor gunnery and missile skills, but good nav and engineering skills so i can stay out of range - means multiple cruisers still do not damage me (dfenders take out their missiles, and I stay out of range of their turrets while my widowmakers/hybrids tear them up at around 40km).
Simply - I do this with poor gunnery/missile skills and just heavies and thus won't be affected at all by the changes. With better gunnery skills, these things would be very very easy in a moa. FYI, I do kill missions for Sarum Family Internal Security as well as Cathum Conglomerate Administration and I admit I had problems the first two or three times against the 'big' npc spawns (85ks plus 3 35ks etc) but once I had my setup changed and my tactics sorted, it was no longer an issue.
Its a great game in terms of tactics and setups - and widowmakers are a superb heavy missile. I don't use torpedos and cruises in npc missions because they are much more expensive and honestly i dont need them at all. As for time taken with heavies? Not much.. only a few minutes per mission.. in fact it takes longer to pick up the damn loot than kill the npcs, lol, because of the mwd kiting. I suggest those with problems try out different setups and tactics - lvl 3 agent missions in cruisers with heavies is 'not' difficult if you stay out of range, something that is essential in combat if your ship is not equipped for close combat (and almost all cruisers in lvl 3 missions are not).
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--- 'The truth about low sec space is that it reveals humanity - the 'essence' of all the races, in its purest form. A place where Concord no longer polices or protects, 'human nature' thrives in all its distilled destructive self-serving glory. Welcome to hell ladies and gentlemen, welcome to what it really is to be human.'
-Swiftare 'Swift' Sarum. |
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