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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.03 13:22:00 -
[31]
op says all.
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.03 19:20:00 -
[32]
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Fallorn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.03 20:38:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Fallorn on 03/06/2008 20:38:54
:Page2Snypa:
Really work on this stuff
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.03 22:57:00 -
[34]
I support this topic: Artillery is a weapon system designed for a long since bygone era. Preferably I would like to Artillery regain its stature as an alpha strike weapons systemùperhaps through a combination of weapon rebalance and a rethink of certain ship specialization bonuses. Doing so will preserve some diversity in weapon platforms. Failing that end, Matari pilots demand whatever changes are necessary to transform Artillery into a viable and competitive long range weapons system.
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:20:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Gragnor on 03/06/2008 23:22:48
Minmatar needs a comprehensive exmaination as they have ruined the battleships.
The ONLY reason to fly a Minmatar battleship was alpha strike. They are fragile and their speed advantage over a sniperthron is negligible. Rigs and doomsday proof cruiser fits have meant that Alphastrike is no longer the arbiter of fights but dps.
The end result of all this was the half baked abortion; the Maelstrom. An active tanking FLEET battleship with half a gun's improvement in damage and is a whale to get out of a fight. What a stroke of game designing genius that was.
My point. Minmatar 1400's need to be restored to their place of prominence quickly or the entire line of Minnie BS needs a drastic overhaul. The problem is that there is no chance of the this happening as the clueless game designers have no interest in doing this. They want close range fights where lag is maximised, minnie ships are useless and have only ONE possible way of surviving; nanoships.
By all means ask; but please do not expect anything from CCP. They know best.............
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:22:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Gragnor on 03/06/2008 23:22:14
oops double post.
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arghy steelwill
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:32:00 -
[37]
I believe the guns are fine its just the ships that need to be looked at, the tempest is so damn annoying ATM with the TC nerf. I have gal/ama/min bs4 with all gunnery support skills to level 5, when a T1 gun geddon does better in fleet fights then my T2 tempest then theres something wrong. The tempest already needed all of its mid slots just to perform on par with other T2 snipers(2xSBII/1xMWD/2xTCII) along with 4 of its 6 low slots(RCUII/3xGSII) with the other 2 usually ending up being DCII/1600 plate. Then we got the TC/SB nerf now the already horrible tracking gets worse while its still the only sniper with the lowest targetting range.
The guns were never changed the ships were- the ships were balanced around the guns change the ships or change the guns.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Kelbesque Crystalis
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:45:00 -
[38]
Something need to be done to either the ships or the guns. Alpha is now worthless, making artillery the worst long range weapon system.
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Min Qa
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:05:00 -
[39]
/signed
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Irista Ari'star
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Posted - 2008.06.04 02:30:00 -
[40]
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Unreal5
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.06.04 05:54:00 -
[41]
yes
ASD |
Code Chills
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Posted - 2008.06.04 09:35:00 -
[42]
Well, Alpha-Strike-Kills were something too common. Therefore they have been removed. Now, when will the Weapon specialized in exactly that removed aspect be "looked at".
+15% DPS
+100% Clipsize
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.05 21:11:00 -
[43]
 Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis
Something need to be done to either the ships or the guns. Alpha is now worthless, making artillery the worst long range weapon system.
Especially in PvE where Minmatar ships, relying on either arti or mixed systems, are dependent on something that works about as well as a Rail. Combining the "Big Alpha - Low DPS" approach of arti with reloading all the time ist just plain BAD.
So yeah, I'm absolutely pro artillery Rework. Also the sound and graphics of sub-capital arti could use some love.
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Bakatu Kat
Kat Family
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Posted - 2008.06.06 13:13:00 -
[44]
i'll give it a +. redesign is needed, but i like the idea of burst weapon more. you shoot a lot, then its cooldown and reaload, and again shooting ... for me its a nice "alpha strike". stays in line with alpha strike of old times
"[Being Minmatar is] like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi" -- Axitikus
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bakatu Kat
i'll give it a +. redesign is needed, but i like the idea of burst weapon more. you shoot a lot, then its cooldown and reaload, and again shooting ... for me its a nice "alpha strike". stays in line with alpha strike of old times
Hmm. You know, this sounds cool. I don't fly Minmatar ships, but I have used Artillery back when it was the only good weapon system on my ancient Prophecy. The idea of shooting four or five powerful shots, then a long reload is kind of appealing. However, if we did this and made their reload speed 15, or even 20 seconds one could argue that an advantage to Projectile weapons [the ability to change ammo types to suit your needs] would be negated.
Artillery already received a damage boost when the HP of all ships was increased, but I wonder if 10% or so more range could help out.
I don't want Artillery being able to alpha-strike something into oblivion, but I do support the idea of it being very wince inducing. A look into it would be worth it.
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Sworn Absent
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:41:00 -
[46]
Either the guns or the ships, but right now minmatar snipers are outclassed in almost every way and it sucks
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Savesti Kyrsst
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:07:00 -
[47]
If they got rid of one of the disadvantages it would be a lot more balanced. I support your proposed change over that as it keeps the individuality of the different weapon systems.
_
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Red Raider
Excalibur Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:23:00 -
[48]
Right on.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
Qvirk
North Star Networks
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 13:49:00 -
[49]
/signed
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craphound
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Posted - 2008.06.10 21:58:00 -
[50]
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Spurty
The Pikey Rebellion II
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Posted - 2008.06.10 22:51:00 -
[51]
I'm not holding my breath for CCP to look into the Math here (and this thread is desperately short on facts and figures).
I've trained up Gallente BS so I can lay down the hurt with rails at the cost of using a midslot for cap boosting (midslot hurts my tank .. NOT) if I ever need to fire for more than 30seconds.
Also, rails have far better range than artys, artys are pathetic. Don't get upset and bent out of shape, just train something else until the penny drops and they are worth going back to.
--
Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?" |
The MapMaker
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Posted - 2008.06.11 00:36:00 -
[52]
the tempest is the weakest fleet sniper and the alpha factor of artillery is now little more than an underpowered gimmick
i agree with da op but perhaps the topic could be better presented, with graphs comparing the dps of each of the main fleet sniper BS dealt to a BS target against range, and mathematical comparison between weapon types.
Ultimately the issue may be resolved by adjustments to the Tempest which, much like the Eagle, was hit hard by the script changes and went from a decent sniper to the worst racial choice.
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FluffyBunnyPuPu
COAD Alts United
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:23:00 -
[53]
Arties do suck.
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Efdi
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.06.11 03:02:00 -
[54]
One significant problem with artillery is how the racial characteristics work poorly with each other. Specifically how the alpha strike philosophy does not work well with the Minmatar characteristic of fighting in falloff. Because artillery has "high" alpha, and a correspondingly low ROF, each shot fired is individually more important than those of other long range weapon systems. 1400s on a sniper BS have a roughly 12 second ROF, whereas 425 rails have a roughly 5 second ROF, and Tachyons a 7 second ROF. Because beam lasers and rails typically work within optimal, as compared to artillery, more shots hit, with better quality of hits. Combined with the characteristically low DPS of artillery, missed shots from fighting in falloff significantly reduce the effectiveness of Minmatar snipers compared with other races.
tl;dr: High alpha, low ROF and fighting in falloff is a very bad combination. |
RedeyeAce
Demogorgon's Army
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:01:00 -
[55]
Edited by: RedeyeAce on 11/06/2008 15:01:02
Minnie weps in general need a rework
/me heads off to find the other minnie wep posts and the shield / armor swap phoon post  |
SoleDeo Gloria
Mission Runners Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:21:00 -
[56]
/signed
My EVE Online Screen Captures Blog |
AltBier
Blue.
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:52:00 -
[57]
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Mori Felding
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:09:00 -
[58]
___
Memento Mori |
Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:27:00 -
[59]
Even if they did nothing but boost the base optimal by 10km, I'd be far happier. |
hammyhamm
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 07:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: hammyhamm on 12/06/2008 07:11:38
Originally by: Bloodyranger
Keep in mind that we minmatar have not focused as much on technology including tracking and stuff like that, besides artilleries are just what they are ment to be, massive alpha and low DPS. If you want DPS and Tracking the minmatar Autocannons have the fastest and very nice DPS as well. Along with the ability to chose amongst all damage types
/Not signed
A quick glance reveals that Minmatar Encryption Methods is required to invent T2 Tracking computers and Tracking enhancers, so I'd say they are fairly focused on tracking (not to mention that Autocannons have pretty good tracking).
My main issue is that the 1400mm Artillery uses so much powergrid in comparison to the fitting grid of all minmatar battleships, meaning that you are almost always better fitting 1200mm instead.
All the use of Battleship-size minmatar weapons are exactly what I expect from them: High alpha, low DPS. If anything, I'd have to say that im only in favour of a possible grid reduction on artillery fitting, if any change at all. |
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